Thread: An article by PBS about Metaphysics.

Originally Posted by Xei

Pythagoras didn't do algerbra really, he was much more of a geometer. Also it's doubtful that he did many of the things he was supposed to. And also he ran a sort of secretive cult which was really detrimental to knowledge.

I disagree that trying to scientifically study the mind is like trying to scientifically study God, for a few reasons.

Firstly; that is a dualistic assertion. It may well be the case that the mind can be studied via science, but neuroscience is still in its embryonic stages.

Secondly; God may not be real. However, most Gods are actually scientifically testable, because God is supposed to have a physical presence (unlike the dualistic mind). For example, God is supposed to answer prayers. This has been studied scientifically, and the evidence shows that praying does not have any statistically significant (ie any) effect.

I do however believe in the virtues of metaphysics. I think that logical deduction is one half of the total of viable methods we possess for determining the truth: the other is the scientific method; empirical observation and explanation.

It is, for example, a metaphysical deduction that there are a multitude of universes.

Mathematics can also be said to be metaphysical.

How does one exactly run a prayer experiment?

How does one know what prayers would be answered?
Does one think prayers for items would be answered.

I find it hard to believe an expirement involving prayer would be very accurate....

If a god did in fact exist making him all powerful how well would he respond to a prayer expirement.

Just saying.

Uh it's very easy...

You take a group of people who want something to happen.

You split them into those who pray and those who do not.

Then you record the proportions of each group who got what they wanted.

With very large samples this becomes very accurate. The proportions are always the same, which demonstrates that prayer has no effect.

Originally Posted by Xei

Uh it's very easy...

You take a group of people who want something to happen.

You split them into those who pray and those who do not.

Then you record the proportions of each group who got what they wanted.

With very large samples this becomes very accurate. The proportions are always the same, which demonstrates that prayer has no effect.

Not my opinion, but an opinion.
If you were to take prayer to the way it's viewed by many...

What kind of prayers were made? Because god isn't viewed to just answer pointless prayers just for personal gain..

And if prayers are to be taken the literal way, a petition to God.. Why would god go along with an experiment. He would choose what prayers to answer on a case by case basis would he not?
God is an impossible thing to test for.. Is my point.

I believe the biggest one was done by Harvard about heart transplants.

God is a very easy thing to test for; at least most conceptions of him. That is my point.

Originally Posted by Xei

I believe the biggest one was done by Harvard about heart transplants.

God is a very easy thing to test for; at least most conceptions of him. That is my point.

An all powerful being, but since you don't believe in an existence of one I can see how you think it would be easy to test for...

But I'm pretty sure anyone with belief in a God would find that ridiculous..

Why? If your God's supposed to answer prayers and he doesn't, then that God doesn't exist. It's not exactly subtle logic.

Yeah seriously, God is supposed to be at least somewhat loving according to the Bible. So why would he hide when he can easily reveal himself. Why the hell would he feel so insulted to do a simple test? He'll appear in bread, but not in experiments?

On the other hand, he may not have any interest with us, but that's just an argument for agnosticism.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

But I'm pretty sure anyone with belief in a God would find that ridiculous..

Just a rationalization, to hide from reality.

Originally Posted by Xei

Why? If your God's supposed to answer prayers and he doesn't, then that God doesn't exist. It's not exactly subtle logic.

Oh yes and being an all powerful being you'd think he'd answer every single pointless prayer asking for petty things that only help themselves?

...

Just a rationalization, to hide from reality.

Coming from an atheist I'm sure that is what you feel the reason is but maybe they really just believe? That is their reality.

Why the hell would he feel so insulted to do a simple test? He'll appear in bread, but not in experiments?

Why would he have to prove himself to his children?

Especially to people who have no faith in him? Why waste his time? ( I don't believe in the Christian god so..)

Maybe god is really just the all. We are all apart of the all, we all came from the same source after all...(big bang)

There are so many theories, religious and scientific yet no one really knows... And never will.


Yesterdays dreams are tomorrows sighs..

Originally Posted by Xei

With very large samples this becomes very accurate. The proportions are always the same, which demonstrates that prayer has no effect.

What is prayer?

It's when you ask God to do something.

Didn't you know?

Originally Posted by Xei

It's when you ask God to do something.

Didn't you know?

Yes, I do. I was seeing if you did. How you understand "prayer" will depend on how you pray, and how you perceive the prayer, the praying, and the experimental results to do with all these.

Edit: If everybody prayed like that, basically there'd be no effect. You cannot test prayers like that.

Why not?

Originally Posted by Xei

Why not?

A small percentage of the population use prayer properly. There is little chance you can "test" somebody praying, also. What do you do, gather a group of people together and ask them to start praying at once?

It is a matter of intention and compassionate will.

Is it not to ask for things, selfishly. "Please God, make me pass the test.", "Please God, make her love me." God does not do everything without your input; take responsibility. It is not to ask God to do anything, God can only offer blessings. Show a sign in the universe, that you intend for the highest good. Bless the world yourself, after all, God created you. Intend peace.

It is quite hard to explain, you have read more between the lines of things. It's silly to pray for trivial matters, and karma does come into it. It is helpful to know how the ego is blind in its judgments.