Thread: Just a question for the atheists

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

It depends how you use science and what you are looking for. It's like that Kennedy speech but with science. 'Think not what science can do for you, but what you can do for science'.

You must be joking? First, that quote has nothing to do with the topic. Second, science can not explain abstract, subjective reasoning.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Such as your parents who conceived you.

That is their own purpose, not an objective meaning of life. Once again, science can't explain abstract, subjective reasoning (my parents' purposes for having me). It also isn't in context of the original question.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

One is sure restricting themself to a dull existence with such little thought to possibilities considering what is yet to be discovered from the dramatic mystery of life. Even so you do not have to believe in god to make meaning out of things. This is even a more restrictive pale belief without any real substance or reason behind it. So much so considered seriously one might fall into depression and eventually as a result create a more lasting appreciation for their own individuality and power to appreciate what meaning they can make for themself while they are still alive. The finite quality surely making everything 100 times as beautiful as if their life was not a finite existence.

If there isn't a natural, objective meaning of life or God, that doesn't mean that life is bland or subjectively meaningless. (Once again) I am not talking about a subjective meaning of life or purpose of doing anything, but an ultimate, divine meaning of life. If you want to talk about limiting possibilities of discovering the unknown, why don't you take a look at how religion suppresses the advancement of science in many different fields because it is declared "immoral".


If knowledge is immoral or sinful, I hope to go to the deepest levels of Hell because, apparently, they teem with intellect.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

It's good to be independent but completely forgetting about the question why is going to make you unbalanced. You will never think about anything because you decide it does not matter anyway. Which gives false excuses to not make an effort. It also gives excuses for not being a good person. "It doesn't matter what I do because it just is". Saying why is not important to your existence is escaping responsibility for moral conduct. Which is another excuse to be lazy and let yourself descent into unconsious random behavior that possibly follows no productive pattern and knows no efficient boundaries.

None of these impractical conclusions are really based on any significant evidence other than a desire to choose. And a stronger desire to not research and remain apathetic perhaps.

Just because one decides a certain preconceived concept of god does not exist in their intellectual limited capacity of the infinite ever changing universe. This does not mean the question why also does not exist or hold some value in the many living beings of different potentialities that inhabit it.

You also do not need something else to tell you of your purpose. We have enough power on our own to think for ourself.

You are misinterpreting the questing of "Why". "Why are we here, what is the meaning of life, what is my purpose, why am I who I am, etc.," are meaningless. You exaggerate my statement to include morality. Questions such as those that I listed above hold no reason unless there is an ultimate creator of life, with a purpose (God). Just because we don't have a divine purpose or meaning of life does mean (in the least bit) that nothing that we do matters subjectively.

As for "never thinking because there's no point", this is the exact opposite. By freeing myself from searching for a divine purpose, I allow myself to search for answers to questions that can actually develop knowledge.

Morality does not come from divinity, so your argument that lack of divine purpose causes immorality and laziness does not hold any ground.



I think that you either must have misinterpreted the question or my interpretation of it.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

As an atheist, the whole "why" aspect is up to me to decide, because that's what it is, a subjective interpretation. Science concerns itself with objective data and observations, and seeks to catalogue, describe and predict observable phenomena.

Also, even as an atheist, my life still has meaning and purpose... instead of a God or religion giving me a pre-packaged purpose, I give my life meaning. Why? Because life itself is worth living! A mortal life is still worth living, and because of the limited time we have gives it so much more reason to make the most of it. That is all... no need for a deity.

Believe what you want to believe, just don't mistake Science as being a system of belief...

Very nicely and simply put.

The last sentence deserves the, "Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color, and not collecting stamps is a hobby"

Originally Posted by StephenT

Very nicely and simply put.

The last sentence deserves the, "Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color, and not collecting stamps is a hobby"

Thanks. I've spent a fair bit debating on similar issues in my absence at DV, so I've honed a few things along the way. Also, some times I get tired of doing tl;dr posts and prefer to keep things nice and short. Some times it just has a better effect (Don't get me wrong, I could go all tl;dr on your asses if I wanted, but most of this topic has been done to death already).

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Thanks. I've spent a fair bit debating on similar issues in my absence at DV, so I've honed a few things along the way. Also, some times I get tired of doing tl;dr posts and prefer to keep things nice and short. Some times it just has a better effect (Don't get me wrong, I could go all tl;dr on your asses if I wanted, but most of this topic has been done to death already).

Very true. I need to practice that skill a little bit.

Originally Posted by StephenT

Very true. I need to practice that skill a little bit.

Research, practice and learn from the weak areas of your arguments and the mistakes you make. Also, http://www.fstdt.com/ is a great place for getting ammunition or at least the good arguments from all the comments and from the stuff that's posted on the forums. I think I'm picking apart a Mormon apologetic on there at the moment... yes, fun stuff...

Originally Posted by StephenT

ultimate, divine meaning of life. If you want to talk about limiting possibilities of discovering the unknown, why don't you take a look at how religion suppresses the advancement of science in many different fields because it is declared "immoral".


If knowledge is immoral or sinful, I hope to go to the deepest levels of Hell because, apparently, they teem with intellect.

Little side track here but I wish to clarify things. Religion does not wish to surpress Science. It only opposes some forms of scientific research because of the cost to humanity or an affront to a set of predetermined morals. Take stem cells for example, Relgion does not oppose Stem cell research in an of itself, just the way that research is conducted as well asthe sideaffects of that research, such as the loss of a fetus. I think that too many people here make way too many overgeneralizations on the subject of organized religion. As far as completed science eradicating religion goes It will never happen. There are about a Billion christians throughout the world and even as science advances these people will continue to teach there children who God is. Not to mention the fact that God's word provides hope in the way nothing else can. Human beings have a tendency to seek out what they think predicts the best possible outcome for them and will often pursue that thing even in the face of mountains of knowledge that contradicts their beliefs. If you look at God and it's message and the way Human beings are set up psyhcologically you will relize that the notion of God is just to comforting for humanity to surrender, especially in times of war, famine, and other hardships.

Imo, religion, science, philosophy, spirituality it's all complementary, why limit yourself to one source if you can have them all!

Because they contradict each other.

It's really not that complex a concept. Some things are true, other things are not true.

I absorb all information, and the truth will reveal itself over time. The absolute truth is the sum of all relative truths. Closing your mind is pointless.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

I absorb all information, and the truth will reveal itself over time. The absolute truth is the sum of all relative truths. Closing your mind is pointless.

Since you "absorb all information", do check out stormfront.org. "Why limit yourself to one source if you can have them all?"

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

I absorb all information, and the truth will reveal itself over time. The absolute truth is the sum of all relative truths. Closing your mind is pointless.

You, sir, are a bullshit liar.

If you were half as open minded as you'd like to think you were, 4 threads would currently not be in ruins from your trollish behavior.

Rofl, look at those two, you guys get an email each time I post something?

How about you go start some more threads about me being such a troll.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Rofl, look at those two, you guys get an email each time I post something?

How about you go start some more threads about me being such a troll.

I think it's time for your nap.

And theres the third, too predictable, why haven't you started a thread about me yet? OH WAIT, you have!

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

And theres the third, too predictable, why haven't you started a thread about me yet? OH WAIT, you have!

That was Seismosaur. But here's this...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5PKnA7AQBGk

I imagine the whys of existence would be the same type of why as God.
Why does god function the way he would?
Why does existence function the way it does?


Steps...

Nowhere>God>everything.
Nowhere>everything.

I choose the one without the redundant add on.

Why is an atom with 2 protons 2 neutrons, and 2 electrons behave in such a way that we can define it as helium?

Well among the reasons are the number of valence electrons, which are determined by the protons, etc. But in essence it boils down to why does a thing act the way it does. Why is energy capable of being in different forms? In all honesty I don't know if there ever will be a theory that answers every question. There is a "theory of everything" that is being developed roughly, or by now might actually be developed, but even that doesn't exactly explain why the theory is true. Electric and gravitational forces are similar so physicists think that strong and weak nuclear forces may also be linked together as well, which is part of the everything theory. (Well, if it is true it is true because you can prove it but you get my point.)

If you think about it though, in reality the "whys" of everything is because everything is connected. It is a part of itself and it reaches into itself...it is drawn to itself does that make sense? Kind of like polarity. Some things have different amounts of polarity, or polarity that goes oppositely (electrons, protons) some of no polarity.

Psst. Psst. I demand troll status.

Originally Posted by Sandform

I imagine the whys of existence would be the same type of why as God.
Why does god function the way he would?
Why does existence function the way it does?


Steps...

Nowhere>God>everything.
Nowhere>everything.

I choose the one without the redundant add on.

Why is an atom with 2 protons 2 neutrons, and 2 electrons behave in such a way that we can define it as helium?

Well among the reasons are the number of valence electrons, which are determined by the protons, etc. But in essence it boils down to why does a thing act the way it does. Why is energy capable of being in different forms? In all honesty I don't know if there ever will be a theory that answers every question. There is a "theory of everything" that is being developed roughly, or by now might actually be developed, but even that doesn't exactly explain why the theory is true. Electric and gravitational forces are similar so physicists think that strong and weak nuclear forces may also be linked together as well, which is part of the everything theory. (Well, if it is true it is true because you can prove it but you get my point.)

If you think about it though, in reality the "whys" of everything is because everything is connected. It is a part of itself and it reaches into itself...it is drawn to itself does that make sense? Kind of like polarity. Some things have different amounts of polarity, or polarity that goes oppositely (electrons, protons) some of no polarity.

Psst. Psst. I demand troll status.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5PKnA7AQBGk

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5PKnA7AQBGk

Yay@U

Originally Posted by Sandform

Yay@U

It's okay to do it once in a while. Just don't get addicted to it.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

So, until people could explain lightning, they should have kept assuming it was caused by the god of thunder?

The bible was written at a time when no person could explain lightning, and yet it did not say God was doing it. Why didn't the bible try to explain things like lightning by linking them all to God?

Originally Posted by Arthurium

The bible was written at a time when no person could explain lightning, and yet it did not say God was doing it. Why didn't the bible try to explain things like lightning by linking them all to God?

Because Yahweh is not the god of thunder.

Originally Posted by Korittke

Because Yahweh is not the god of thunder.

By Zeus! Or Thor... which one :/ damn, all these deities to choose from...

Originally Posted by Korittke

Because Yahweh is not the god of thunder.

No I mean if the bible was a bunch of crap wouldn't it try to explain things such as thunder in ways similar to that of the logic of that time period. As an example I was stating that it didn't explain thunder as being an act of God.

Follow?

Because it was written in the desert.

How many lightning storms does a desert see?