Thread: "Choosing to Believe" 2 + 2 = 5: The Interviews

What is the correct answer then? Every answer I give is false.

The question is "Can you choose to believe 2+2=5".
The only possible answers are "Yes or No".
My answer is "Yes".

How is that dodgy? Tbh, you won't be satisfied until I say "No" . You dont' care for discussion, you just care to win. But you can't force me what to believe in.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Why? A lot of people here claim religious belief is a choice. What do you think about that?


Who wants to do the first interview?

There are many times when a person reconsiders his faith, he doesn't believe in God anymore, etc. Also I'm religious by choice, I have no idea what you are talking about. You wake up in the morning and choose whether or not you don't want to go to church. If you are talking about fundies, this post still doesn't make sense. It is impossible that 2+2=5 in simple math. But it is not impossible there is a God..

Also how did Atheists converts arise if religious people didn't have a choice? They chose Atheism over religion..

I think you already know a good sum of Christians in this world who take religion as a philosophy, the way it should be, and philosophy is a science without proof or evidence..

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

What is the correct answer then? Every answer I give is false.

The question is "Can you choose to believe 2+2=5".
The only possible answers are "Yes or No".
My answer is "Yes".

How is that dodgy? Tbh, you won't be satisfied until I say "No" . You dont' care for discussion, you just care to win. But you can't force me what to believe in.

The thing is, you ignore the questions most of the time. When you don't ignore them, you give dodgy answers like "If I change the meaning of the symbols...", "If I'm in a lucid dream...", etc.

The logical conclusion is that you're either lying or highly delusional about your belief-choosing abilities.


Dreamworld tell me, do you choose your beliefs, or do you make your choices based on your beliefs?

No Atheist in here thought "Hey, it would be cool if I were an Atheist, think I'll change my beliefs". Talking for myself at least: I started thinking, and reached this conclusion not based on choice but based on logic and reason.

The purpose of this thread isn't to answer a yes/no question like "Can you choose your beliefs?", it's to answer questions with the intent of verifying that claim you made in an earlier thread. (like my yet unanswered simple maths question)

I don't choose to believe you're a liar, but what I see in your posts compels to think so. It's not my choice.


#edit#

I see ChaybaChayba deleted his post, so here's what I was answering to:

How the hell is "Yes." Dodgy?

Theres no point in this thread at all. Because you choose to believe whatever you want to believe. Even if I answer "Yes." you choose to believe I'm a liar.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

There are many times when a person reconsiders his faith, he doesn't believe in God anymore, etc. Also I'm religious by choice, I have no idea what you are talking about. You wake up in the morning and choose whether or not you don't want to go to church. If you are talking about fundies, this post still doesn't make sense. It is impossible that 2+2=5 in simple math. But it is not impossible there is a God..

I can't make sense of the idea that God exists. How do I choose to believe in God? The existence of any god in general does not seem 100% impossible, but the existence of the Judeo-Christian God does seem impossible. The existence of any god in general seems far fetched, and I do not have enough reason to believe in it. So how could I choose to believe in God? Just like that mathematical falsehood you said you know is false and therefore cannot believe in, I know God is a falsehood and believe gods are a falsehood.


If anybody wants to try deliberately believing that 2 + 2 = 5 and answering this, please do. I am of course talking about answering what I am actually asking.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Okay, look at the $'s below.
____
$ $

$ $
____

1. How many $'s are in the group between the lines?

2. How many are in the top row?

3. How many are in the bottom row?

4. What is the sum of your answers to questions 2 and 3?

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

I see ChaybaChayba deleted his post, so here's what I was answering to:

Chaybachayba is a troll. There is no point in talking to her. She is just a kid lashing out at life.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Chaybachayba is a troll. There is no point in talking to her. She is just a kid lashing out at life.

This means that all this times my insults were in the wrong gender. NOOOO

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Thanks! It looks like Chaybachayba and Really don't want to participate in this examination of chosen belief, so I am glad you will. Chaybachayba just wants to assert that she can do it and not be tested. Okay, look at the $'s below.
____
$ $

$ $
____

1. How many $'s are in the group between the lines?

2. How many are in the top row?

3. How many are in the bottom row?

4. What is the sum of your answers to questions 2 and 3?

Okay, I'm going to go on the assumption here that I fully believe that 2 + 2 = 5, and I will answer and defend with every piece of possibility that supports or does not cause a paradox in my saying that I support this belief.
That meaning that in my mind, using my logic, 2 + 2 = 5. This will attempted to be incorporated into everything 'I' believe in this thread.
_____

I see a possibility in which I can defend a pre-supposed strike against my belief of 2 + 2 = 5 - that the value of the divided unit is everchanging and indefinite.

In this opening up a weakness in the logical aspect of 2 + 2 = 5, I'd say that all values are everchanging, thus that any value of any unit is flux.
_____

Reiterating something here - within these posts is the belief that 2 + 2 = 5, and in saying that I will try to use whatever I can to support so, as long as it doesn't contradict.

But are you actually believing that 2+2=5, or just pretending to do so?

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

But are you actually believing that 2+2=5, or just pretending to do so?

Within this thread, I am believing.

Originally Posted by ClouD

Okay, I'm going to go on the assumption here that I fully believe that 2 + 2 = 5 (...)

Here you seem to imply otherwise.

I was setting context and clarifying my intention. My beliefs external of this thread are irrelevant.

I wasn't talking about you're outside beliefs.

Anyway, would you please care to answer my question then? (post #51)

"(2785/27.983)^2" equals what?

If you read my answer to UM, then assuming you aren't retarded (setting context and clarifying), I await a retort that addresses that.
_____

I see a possibility in which I can defend a pre-supposed strike against my belief of 2 + 2 = 5 - that the value of the divided unit is everchanging and indefinite.

In this opening up a weakness in the logical aspect of 2 + 2 = 5, I'd say that all values are everchanging, thus that any value of any unit is flux.

The answer is everchanging in this context, as is the question.
_____

Also as a reminder, this is a theoretical exercise. Try not to change circumstance and context.

In normal logic, (2785/27.983)^2 = 9905.168185617


If 2+2=5...

4 = 5
9905.168185617 = x

x=(9905.168185617*5)/4
x=12381.460232021

I think this answer is correct, and belief in 2+2=5 wasn't even needed to reach it.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

In normal logic, (2785/27.983)^2 = 9905.168185617


If 2+2=5...

4 = 5
9905.168185617 = x

x=(9905.168185617*5)/4
x=12381.460232021

I think this answer is correct, and belief in 2+2=5 wasn't even needed to reach it.

Brainfreeze!

Originally Posted by RedfishBluefish

You can't.
Choice requires motivation, and motivation requires belief, or a disregard for truth (combined with rewards for making this particular choice).

It was a rhetorical question.

Originally Posted by ClouD

Okay, I'm going to go on the assumption here that I fully believe that 2 + 2 = 5, and I will answer and defend with every piece of possibility that supports or does not cause a paradox in my saying that I support this belief.
That meaning that in my mind, using my logic, 2 + 2 = 5. This will attempted to be incorporated into everything 'I' believe in this thread.
_____

I see a possibility in which I can defend a pre-supposed strike against my belief of 2 + 2 = 5 - that the value of the divided unit is everchanging and indefinite.

In this opening up a weakness in the logical aspect of 2 + 2 = 5, I'd say that all values are everchanging, thus that any value of any unit is flux.
_____

Reiterating something here - within these posts is the belief that 2 + 2 = 5, and in saying that I will try to use whatever I can to support so, as long as it doesn't contradict.

Remember that I am talking about believing in total honesty that 2 + 2 = 5, not just being a lawyer who represents that side of the argument.

What you said argues that 2 + 2 = different things and that the value is constantly changing, but not that it = specifically 5.

In normal logic, (2785/27.983)^2 = 9905.168185617

If 2+2=5
4 = 5

9905.168185617 = x

x=(9905.168185617*5)/4
x=12381.460232021

I think this answer is correct, and belief in 2+2=5 wasn't even needed to reach it.

What the hell is that?

Anyway, uh, some pretty retarded conversations going on here. 2+2=4. Look it up.

Although it is possible to glue a stick measured to be 2 metres to another stick measured to be 2 metres and get a stick which measures 5 metres.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

If one of the rocks break, you'll have 5 rocks.

Right, because 1 divided by two equals two.

That's what you said, but this is what you should have said:

One divided by two equals two halves.

Think about it.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Everythings possible in a lucid dream. How about you think about that? It's perfectly possible in a lucid dream to put 2 rocks together with 2 rocks and end up with 5 rocks.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Real life is a dream. You just haven't realized yet.

Ah, good. Since you've become lucid in this dream called reality, please go ahead and add two rocks to two rocks and end up with five.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

Oh my God.. If you are relating this to religion you are completely wrong. I was hoping you weren't.

Not exactly. You seem to be seeing this as UM saying "Religious belief is tantamount to believing 2+2=5". Maybe UM does think that, but that isn't the point. The point here is to demonstrate that a person cannot choose to believe something they understand is not true. At best you can choose to reexamine the grounds on which you believe it to be true to find a flaw in those reasons. You can't just automatically switch between them. It doesn't happen. The next best thing is thinking hypothetically, but this is literally pretending you believe that it's true.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

If you want to believe I'm a troll, thats your choice.

LOL nice.

Originally Posted by Xei

What the hell is that?

I don't know the name for the "rule" in English, but it's simple proportionality maths learned at the 6th grade or something.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Remember that I am talking about believing in total honesty that 2 + 2 = 5, not just being a lawyer who represents that side of the argument.

What you said argues that 2 + 2 = different things and that the value is constantly changing, but not that it = specifically 5.

_____

"It" (being 2 + 2), is everchanging too.
x + x = x
_____

I have not been illogical. Saying that 2 is definite, 5 is definite, + and = are definite and that all their meanings are definite, then the outcome will be definite.

In other words, you are asking me to believe in 2 + 2 = 5, yet telling me that 2 + 2 = 4. This is illogical.

There was one logical way to defend against the incoming strike - to say that at least one or more of the symbols/numbers are indefinite.

I found that it made most logic for all the symbols and numbers are indefinite.

If 2 does not equal '2', 5 does not equal '5', + and = don't equal '+' and '=', then 2 + 2 = 5.

If you were to say that the symbols are definite, then fine.
2 'plus' 2 'equals' 5.

but it's simple proportionality maths learned at the 6th grade or something.

It makes no sense at all. What's it supposed to show?

If 4 equals 5, then 9905.168185617 equals 12381.460232021.

That's answering the question I threw earlier to those you claim to be able to believe 2+2=5. (in case you haven't read the whole thread...)

If 4 equals 5 then any number could be anything if you extend your argument, then. For example,

e = e * 4/5 = e * 5/4 = e * 4^2/5^2 = e * 5^2/4^2 = e * 4^3/5^3 = e * 5^3/4^3

etcetera. If 4 equals 5, then it follows that any number you choose can actually take any range of values from 0 to infinity. Which is ridiculous and meaningless, of course.