Thread: A proof for the non-existence of God

OMG Wow.

There is a dog that can say I love you.

That parrot is so cool.

Yes, but the parrot can tell you he loves you and then say "It's dinner time".

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Yes, but the parrot can tell you he loves you and then say "It's dinner time".

Hehe and that is awesome too.

I want an african grey parrot.

Awesome!

As for the non-existence of god proof I will refer to the "babelfish"... Nah actualy you can't belive in anything at all, for instance this forum or this thread, only one thing and that is that you actualy exist in some form. "Cogito, ergo sum - I think therefore I am" //Descartes if anybody haven't heard of him(find that highly unlikely). So what were left with is several different ways to belive, now here's the thing, when you belive in science you are obligated to belive in the most reasonable way possible, if something else is more reasonable then you're obligated to change. Also there is a part of science that exists only for itself, you don't find this in any other beliefsystem I dare to say, a lot of things science "proves"(main flaw to call it proof realy but since almost everybody else does it it would be hard to comunicate, apart from that this is probably one of the main problems when discussing belief and such, on this point to me this is absolutely wrong and science should change acordingly) does nothing but state that something is and does something else, it doesn't imply a reason for it wich for instance christianity does. Also I don't belive in the true free will and such, however I have an intresting theory on the going which implies something similar and gives you the freedom of being both determinist and freewillbeliver at the same time, this is what I belive in.

Holy crap we just keep finding out more and more about animals, for all we know, they might have the mental capacity to talk totally competently with us!

That parrot's communication wasn't just basic association.

Well, I had no idea

Alex the parrot (when he was alive anyway) had a vocabulary of over 1,000 words, and could express his feelings more than just 'parroting' things he'd heard. He was truly expressing himself. He could count past 10 and almost carry on a conversation. African greys are incredibly smart, but they require a lot of care and attention. If they are starved of stimulation or attention they just become stupid budgies. They're also endangered, so don't get your hopes up.

As for more self-expression:

Elephant painting

Now the elephant has been trained to produce those brush strokes, but that doesn't make it any less incredible that it is CAPABLE of doing so. Elephants are self-aware, they pass the dot-on-the-forehead mirror test by realising they are looking at themselves in a mirror (when most animals will assume it's another animal and begin to attack it, just think about the first time your dog saw it's own reflection).

Originally Posted by Alextanium

Alex the parrot (when he was alive anyway) had a vocabulary of over 1,000 words, and could express his feelings more than just 'parroting' things he'd heard. He was truly expressing himself. He could count past 10 and almost carry on a conversation. African greys are incredibly smart, but they require a lot of care and attention. If they are starved of stimulation or attention they just become stupid budgies. They're also endangered, so don't get your hopes up.

As for more self-expression:

Elephant painting

Now the elephant has been trained to produce those brush strokes, but that doesn't make it any less incredible that it is CAPABLE of doing so. Elephants are self-aware, they pass the dot-on-the-forehead mirror test by realising they are looking at themselves in a mirror (when most animals will assume it's another animal and begin to attack it, just think about the first time your dog saw it's own reflection).

Babies do that too, and then they grow out of it and realize its them.

Dog's usually grow out of it as well, but the difference is that an elephant will see the big red painted dot on it's forehead, realise that dot ISN'T a part of its own conceptualised image of itself and will touch it with its trunk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test

Happy the elephant, with a white X on his face

Originally Posted by Korittke

Truth = science and reason, so yeah. You mostly see religious people fuck shit up.

That is not what I meant. Truth of Spirituality/God: the Essence of religions. People deem God to be false in most cases because they find flaws and limitations of religions (but without the realization that those limitations are blocking the essential Spiritual meaning). People may become mislead from the essential Spirituality of a religion, through religious dogma and the possible faulty translations of their scriptures. For example, most evident is the interpretation of an anthropomorphic god through Christian Scriptures (Christianity). Then, one may think "God is 'selfish'" or ask "Why would god 'make'/'do' that/this?" Such leads from one fault to another. Advancing with other analogies made here: It is like someone speaking of the sky as it is green, then someone concluding the sky does not exist. Here, the Spiritual essence is the sky; the religious error is the color.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Technically, all of Theism is not knowing. As that is it's foundation:

Don't know->Make up explanation->Not know whether explanation is true

Spiritual Information may be corrupted by the following:

Generally starts with Avatar of Enlightenment -> Teachings of Spirituality/God-View-> Religion (Depends on Context: Values/Politics/Time/Place/Language/Translation/Transmission of Information) -> Audience's interpretation (Depends on Context: Intelligence/Consciousness of person perceiving/processing that information).

Originally Posted by Sandform

The only proof for the non-existence of something is no proof of it existing.

This is only subjectively/relatively true, but not absolutely.

Originally Posted by gratismat

As for the non-existence of god proof I will refer to the "babelfish"... Nah actualy you can't belive in anything at all, for instance this forum or this thread, only one thing and that is that you actualy exist in some form. "Cogito, ergo sum - I think therefore I am"

God is Impersonal; He exists independent of personal opinion.

Originally Posted by really

God is Impersonal; He exists independent of personal opinion.

Evidence?

Originally Posted by Korittke

Evidence?

Look.

Now.

Be.

Everywhere.

Your existence is evidence, yet your ego clouds you from the Truth. Until you find evidence/become Enlightened, you have to do the cleaning yourself. I can not Enlighten you with an instant but I can teach; teachings directly from Spiritual Avatars would be more reliable because they have been the founders of Spirituality itself, basically.

Evidence and observation of Spiritual Avatars is a pretty good start.

Originally Posted by really

Look.

Now.

Be.

Everywhere.

Your existence is evidence, yet your ego clouds you from the Truth.

Unfalsifiable, much?

Originally Posted by Korittke

Unfalsifiable, much?

Meaning?

Originally Posted by really

Meaning?

No matter what I say, you're always right.
Kinda like a conspiracy theory: If I question it, I'm part of it, so the theory is always valid. Kinda like solipsism: It's always true.

Originally Posted by really

Look.

Now.

Be.

Everywhere.

Your existence is evidence, yet your ego clouds you from the Truth. Until you find evidence/become Enlightened, you have to do the cleaning yourself. I can not Enlighten you with an instant but I can teach; teachings directly from Spiritual Avatars would be more reliable because they have been the founders of Spirituality itself, basically.

Evidence and observation of Spiritual Avatars is a pretty good start.

Then I submit God's existence is evidence of another God...in an infinite loop of God makers.

Why did this thread stop being about intelligent elephants and parrots, I was enjoying that before the word salad and pseudo-enlightenment took over again

Originally Posted by Sandform

Then I submit God's existence is evidence of another God...in an infinite loop of God makers.

That or one infinite God. Created from nothing. Existing as nothing.

Originally Posted by ClouD

That or one infinite God. Created from nothing. Existing as nothing.

You mean no God? I wish you would stop saying things that mean nothing. Essentially your not saying anything valid, or thought provoking, just introducing concepts that actually don't mean anything so it makes our minds go on an ape shit run.

Originally Posted by Sandform

You mean no God? I wish you would stop saying things that mean nothing. Essentially your not saying anything valid, or thought provoking, just introducing concepts that actually don't mean anything so it makes our minds go on an ape shit run.

A variation of word-salad.

I don't understand why every other person on this specific forum have their own various definitions of 'real', 'god', 'atheist', 'faith', 'belief', 'evidence', 'fact', 'theory' and 'energy'. It really defeats the purpose of speaking in a common language.

Originally Posted by Alextanium

A variation of word-salad.

I never heard of word salad, but I had heard of pseudo-enlightenment, anyways, Cloud continued after your post...so I assume he didn't know what word salad was either (or chose to ignore it).

Originally Posted by Sandform

You mean no God? I wish you would stop saying things that mean nothing. Essentially your not saying anything valid, or thought provoking, just introducing concepts that actually don't mean anything so it makes our minds go on an ape shit run.

You cannot justify meaning for anything so why question this meaning.

I was being as valid as you were: also introducing concepts that don't mean anything.

Originally Posted by ClouD

You cannot justify meaning for anything so why question this meaning.

I was being as valid as you were: also introducing concepts that don't mean anything.

My point was not meant to be a valid truth, but a mockery of another point which was, "your existence is evidence."

Or where you referring to my "you mean no god." Statement? Because it had relevance when stated after you said "Existing as nothing."

A statement which literally means nothing. To exist you can not be "nothing."


Cloud I really dislike the way you argue. It seems like every time you post your saying "stop thinking."

Originally Posted by Sandform

My point was not meant to be a valid truth, but a mockery of another point which was, "your existence is evidence."

Or where you referring to my "you mean no god." Statement? Because it had relevance when stated after you said "Existing as nothing."

A statement which literally means nothing. To exist you can not be "nothing."

My would be reply turns out to be word salad.

I've lost the mood.