God?

Is there a God?

Dno, of all gods ever worshipped why would ours be true? I always thought better be on his good side just in case :P

I have never seen any conclusive evidence either way.

Therefore I say no by default.

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Originally Posted by CDR

Dno, of all gods ever worshipped why would ours be true? I always thought better be on his good side just in case :P

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Which is why I am a athiest.

Just FYI, you'd probably get a more in-depth response to this topic in the religion section of the forum ;)

I have no idea if there is a god, I suspect there isn't but nobody can prove it one way or the other, so I don't debate it.

But if there is a god, I don't think the real thing is a concept anyone actually follows. The chance of any one religion being right and all the others being wrong is like... 0% as far as I can tell. It's much more likely that EVERYONE is wrong. Thats why I'm not religious and never will be.

Therefor I label myself as Agnostic.

i once believed in all that crap, luckly one day common sense kicked in.

i to am starting to not believe in my religion, like i sort of believe in god but not jesus christ. EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH ZEITGIEST!!!

Of course there's a god. You don't think the universe came from nothing, do you?

My favorite bit of men's room graffiti ever from back in college..

"God is dead - Signed Joe"

Then below, in different handwriting:

"Joe is dead - Signed God"

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Originally Posted by Mark75

Of course there's a god. You don't think the universe came from nothing, do you?

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You make a good argument.
This is why I would never flat out say there can't be a god. Although I don't think it would be a god like anyone sees it. Perhaps there is some sort of natural force that explains how the universe came to be and could therefor be thought of as god. Everything can be explained by science. I just don't think it would be a conscious entity of any kind that simply willed us into existence.

But... even if you believe in God simply so you know where the universe came from... where did God come from?

You don't think God came from nothing, do you?

You see, no matter how we justify our existence, we're still left with the same question. So I don't personally see any reason to believe in something that has no proof when we'll be left with the same questions anyway. Might as well only believe in what we can see and prove and try to work our way toward these ultimate questions this way, even though we'll probably never get to an answer.

I do respect your beliefs though, not trying to stir any pots :P Discussions like this can get heated easily.

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Originally Posted by Hiros

Everything can be explained by science.

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I thought we had established that not everything can be explained by science at the mention of the origin of existence.

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Originally Posted by Hiros

But... even if you believe in God simply so you know where the universe came from... where did God come from?

You don't think God came from nothing, do you?

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Of course I don't think God came from nothing. God didn't "come from" anything. God, unlike the universe, exists outside of time. God has simply always been and therefore requires no creator.

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Originally Posted by Hiros

You see, no matter how we justify our existence, we're still left with the same question. So I don't personally see any reason to believe in something that has no proof when we'll be left with the same questions anyway.

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No proof? Have you read the Bible? I'm going to go out on a limb and say no. Try it sometime. Really think about its significance as you do and after you're finished. Pray about it and God will reveal Himself to you. God doesn't just come down and say "Hi, Hiros, I'm God, how're you?" at the mere request of him to do so. No, God doesn't work like that. He's far more elegant, yet just as approachable. God is revealed in his works, which are undeniable. They are the things you see, hear, taste, smell and think every day!

Besides, where do our morals come from if not from God? :whyme:

Isn't this in the wrong forum? It's not really Lucid Dreaming...

Anyways, I do think there is a God. It is all a manner of belief; and I choose to believe in God. It doesn't come down to a yes or no question, it comes down to an individual choice.

I believe there is a God, he was never created and never ends, the way that works is he operates beyond time, without time constraints eternal existence is possible. you never can truly know for a fact. you can just believe, once you die you will know though so pick one and research it, personally i call myself a Christian(dont just bash me for saying it) but when you look at it there is a ton more physical scientific data to back up the bible and Christianity than any other religion. so that is where my side stands. I believe in God and all the evidence proving that the bible is more than just a book but has relevance. therefore i believe in Jesus death and resurrection and that no man comes to the Father but by Christ.

Yes, of course there is.

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Originally Posted by superlox3

It is all a manner of belief; and I choose to believe in God. It doesn't come down to a yes or no question, it comes down to an individual choice.

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I agree completely with this. I do not believe in the traditional idea of a God who controls everything in our relatively short lives, but I do respect those who gain inner strength and moral fortitude from their belief in a God.

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Originally Posted by superlox3

Isn't this in the wrong forum? It's not really Lucid Dreaming...

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I also agree with this.

;)

I usually don't get into these types of debates, but I see a fallacy of logic in your statements.

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Originally Posted by Mark75

I thought we had established that not everything can be explained by science at the mention of the origin of existence.

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The origin of existence is insignificant. There is no physical way to gauge how long (with regards to 'time') the universe/multiverse has existed, for the very concept of time and how it flows requires the act of observation. The act of observation is a biological process which we, as humans, have developed over years of genetic variations and evolution (which does exist, it would be patently naive to ignore this fact).

This sentience enables us to use higher-thought as a means to perpetuate our genes into future generations with higher success than most other organisms. It enables us to solve problems which would normally be daunting to any other species of mammals deprived of our ability to 'think'. We're essentially a highly evolved virus/cancer, as the very mechanism which has kept the balance of life on earth maintained with every other organism has failed to present itself within humans. This is because we have developed the ability to observe our thoughts and reason. With this sentience, egoic identities are born with physical entities and ideas, like money, assets, and our physical appearance. As such, we seek to protect these egoic identities, for we fear that without them we cease to exist. We consume far more than we need, for we believe that doing so will protect our existence. We procreate far more than necessary, for sex feels good to us and we know it. In reality, however, without this egoic identity, we would be no different than any other animal, and would live within the bounds of natural balance.

Regardless, having said that, any observation, whether based on scientific reasoning and logic, or faith/intuition, is merely a construct of a biological mechanism, which, if it did not exist, would mean that there is no conscious sentience left to observe the fact that knowledge does/had existed, and as a result, we continue to reproduce and our genes are propagated into a new generation.

Put simply, the notion of god, or existence in general, is insignificant with regards to the universe/multiverse. The multiverse will function regardless of how it is observed or reasoned, and will continue to do so depending on its inherent mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Mark75

Of course I don't think God came from nothing. God didn't "come from" anything. God, unlike the universe, exists outside of time. God has simply always been and therefore requires no creator.

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With that logic I can easily say that the universe exists outside of me, and has always been there, therefore requires no creator.


Religion in general serves no purpose but to satiate the neurological defect of sentience: asking "Why are we here." We feel emotionally lost if we can find no purpose, and therefore our reproductive potential is lessened. As a result, we've evolved doctrines which help fill the gap of the existential dilemma that sentience brings.

Science is equally as useless in a holistic scope (with respect to the multiverse), but helps us develop methods through which we can procreate with more ease than previously available (with medicine and the like).


We're just viral animals when it comes down to it, let us not glorify our destructive potentiality.

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Originally Posted by superlox3

Anyways, I do think there is a God. It is all a manner of belief; and I choose to believe in God. It doesn't come down to a yes or no question, it comes down to an individual choice.

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Um, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but no one gets to decide if God exists or not. The same way you don't decide that water isn't wet, that today is actually Saturday and not Thursday or that Home Movies is actually funny and well drawn.

Moved

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Originally Posted by Ailos

The act of observation is a biological process which we, as humans, have developed over years of genetic variations and evolution (which does exist, it would be patently naive to ignore this fact).

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Genetic variation is acceptable because things obviously change from generation to generation and it can be measured. but to evolve in the sense that humans have evolved over an extended period of time is irrational. There are too many key pieces that could not evolve, take the eye for example, if a single part is missing it is rendered useless, evolution takes the side that genetic mutations caused things to evolve over short little steps forward and relies on the survival of the fittest concept. if you try to go from a lizard eye to any other form of eye in small steps they would be blind and die off because they are not fit to survive.

Oh, and i find it funny how evolution is taught as a science. It is not a science, it is a belief, just as creationist are not scientist. Evolution fails to be repeatable, measurable, and observable. just as divine creation. they arent sciences they are belief systems and should be taught as such.

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Originally Posted by Mark75

Um, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but no one gets to decide if God exists or not. The same way you don't decide that water isn't wet, that today is actually Saturday and not Thursday or that Home Movies is actually funny and well drawn.

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If no one can decide if God exists, those who wrote the Bible can't be believed. Also, days of the week are completely relative to the time zone and culture in which you live.

In the end though, who cares; people will always have differing views on the question of God so perhaps we should accept that idea going into a debate about religion.

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Originally Posted by Ailos

The origin of existence is insignificant. There is no physical way to gauge how long (with regards to 'time') the universe/multiverse has existed, for the very concept of time and how it flows requires the act of observation. The act of observation is a biological process which we, as humans, have developed over years of genetic variations and evolution (which does exist, it would be patently naive to ignore this fact).

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Oh, I see. Since science can't prove it, it's not important, even though it backs up evolution! That's convenient! :clap:

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Originally Posted by Ailos

Put simply, the notion of god, or existence in general, is insignificant with regards to the universe/multiverse. The multiverse will function regardless of how it is observed or reasoned, and will continue to do so depending on its inherent mechanics.

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Sorry? I missed the part where you said why our creator and provider of order was insignificant?

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Originally Posted by Ailos

With that logic I can easily say that the universe exists outside of me, and has always been there, therefore requires no creator.

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It seems clever on the surface, but anyone with a watch can see that the universe is dependant on time (hint: your watch is in the universe!:wink:)

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Originally Posted by Ailos

Religion in general serves no purpose but to satiate the neurological defect of sentience: asking "Why are we here." We feel emotionally lost if we can find no purpose, and therefore our reproductive potential is lessened. As a result, we've evolved doctrines which help fill the gap of the existential dilemma that sentience brings.

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But you're missing the point. Science doesn't bring us morals, nor did it create our universe (Or did it? It is omniscient, right?:bowdown::roll:)

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Originally Posted by Ailos

We're just viral animals when it comes down to it, lets not glorify our destructive potentiality.

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Hey, speak for yourself! :bow:

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Originally Posted by Captain Sleepalot

If no one can decide if God exists, those who wrote the Bible can't be believed. Also, days of the week are completely relative to the time zone and culture in which you live.

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Sorry, but your reply actually makes no sense. The people who wrote the Bible couldn't decide that God didn't exist, so they're wrong that He did? What? Despite the fact that they only couldn't decided that He didn't exist because He had been proven to them? Days of the week may be relative to your time zone, but time zones don't change. Notice how I had cleverly picked days that were more than 24 hours apart. There is never a time on Earth where it is Thursday in one place and Saturday in another.

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God?
Is there a God?

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Just throwing my 2 cents in, I don't believe in any higher power, because of everything I've seen, felt, heard, and known in my life.

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Dno, of all gods ever worshipped why would ours be true?

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Good example. Of all the gods that have ever been worshiped in the history of mankind, why would ours be real?

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Originally Posted by Mark75

But you're missing the point. Science doesn't bring us morals, nor did it create our universe (Or did it? It is omniscient, right?)

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I think you are missing the point. He isn't saying that science is responsible for creating morality, but that the idea of a God is important to some people in finding direction and meaning in life.

And of course science didn't create the universe, as science is the study of our universe using systematic methods of research.

Morality is relative to the culture that you live in; Buddhists, for example, have ideas about proper moral conduct yet the core tenets of Buddhism do not include the idea of an all knowing God who controls our fates.