Constructive use of the R/S Forum

[NonDualistic]

I would like to pose a question to everyone using the Religion/Spirituality Forum. Of late we all see Atheist bashing Theist and Theist bashing Atheist. Neither is a meaningful , constructive, nor wise use of this forum or its potential. What in your opinion constitutes a wise, meaningful, and constructive use of this forum? -or as rephrased from below: What is it you yourself are looking for when you come in to this forum to either read or participate? I guess thats what I am asking really.

[Serkat]

Of late we all see Atheist bashing Theist and Theist bashing Atheist. Neither is a meaningful , constructive, nor wise use of this forum or its potential. I disagree. Everybody has to get the amount of constructiveness out of it that he can. There's more than enough stuff that can be learned. You make it sound like we're just throwing insults at each other. That is not true. Please do point out how a debate between atheists and theists is not constructive (other than by swapping 'debate' with 'bashing').

[NonDualistic]

I disagree. Everybody has to get the amount of constructiveness out of it that he can. There's more than enough stuff that can be learned. You make it sound like we're just throwing insults at each other. That is not true. Please do point out how a debate between atheists and theists is not constructive (other than by swapping 'debate' with 'bashing'). I do apologize, I didnt mean to make it sound that way. I do however, differentiate between debating, and bashing, bashing being mean spirited , name calling, mere put downs of beliefs, etc etc In any case do tell how you yourself find the exchanges a constructive use of the forum. Theres no right or wrong answer. Just interested in seeing what peoples thoughts are.

[Howie]

No matter what one's beliefs are, they will not be changed in this Forum. I have never seen it. Member's countless attempts at trying to convey a message. Trying to point out the logic of their argument. The fact is, the opposing view has all the logic he or she needs. Regardless of how clear we may see something, it is likely the other person sees this just as clear, just not like you. I find the exchanges as only an attempt to affirm someones own affirmations to solidify their belief. If they find it, then they feel it constructive. If they do not, it is a quarrel. It threatens their belief.

[Mes Tarrant]

Alrighty, how many topics about this do we really need 5 days in a row? If you feel like someone is really out to get you and does nothing but insult you, take it up privately.

[O'nus]

No matter what one's beliefs are, they will not be changed in this Forum. I have never seen it. Member's countless attempts at trying to convey a message. Trying to point out the logic of their argument. The fact is, the opposing view has all the logic he or she needs. Regardless of how clear we may see something, it is likely the other person sees this just as clear, just not like you. I find the exchanges as only an attempt to affirm someones own affirmations to solidify their belief. If they find it, then they feel it constructive. If they do not, it is a quarrel. It threatens their belief. First, Howie, you ought to know that I have received numerous messages from people saying that they have embraced Atheism because of things I have said. In opposition, I have received numerous messages from people telling me how they have solidified their Theistic beliefs because of conversations we have had. Neither had any hostile tones. I do not talk with other people to make affirmations or confirm my beliefs - I speak with others to develop my beliefs because they are beliefs. I have taken a lot from these boards and learned from many people. For example; I have taken the notion that the original poster of this thread is an advocate of; motion. NonDualistic and I have had many conversations and I feel that, although I initially disagree entirely with NonDualistic, I now understand and in fact adhere to what he originally argued. NonDualistic is an example of someone that I disagree with, argued, and eventually agreed with. He can attest to this. This is what I hold. Of course, this being a thread about intentions about discussion; if you think that I have other intentions, then I want to hear them because I want to be that kind of person who is receptive to new ideas. It saddens me when people think that discussion is analgous to two Furby dolls sitting infront of each other simply pontificating their own selfish conjecture when there is a potentially infinite world of knowledge and growth. The only think you have to do is listen. If you feel like someone is really out to get you and does nothing but insult you, take it up privately. If this is the case for anyone, I certainly agree with Mes. ~

[Riot Maker]

I would like to say something. Over the past month and a bit that i have been on this forum it really opened my eye's like you couldn't be. Regardless of my christian roots and how deep they are embeded in my thinking i feel as if my knowledge of "whats out there" is far greater then i thoguht i could obtain in such a miniscule amount of time. I hate to say it but i was sorta living almost in a religious bubble and i was only surrounded by catholics because i grew up that way. But after listening to what some of the people have to say and the intelligence that some people bring to the table i.e. O'nus, Moonbeam, Photolysis and others just overwhelms me sometimes. But like howie said, nobody on this board is going to make me an atheist. However, people on this board can open my eyes and can educate me on important topics such as relgion and give their view on it.

[O'nus]

But like howie said, nobody on this board is going to make me an atheist. However, people on this board can open my eyes and can educate me on important topics such as relgion and give their view on it. Exactly. While I profoundly respect your choice of belief (as you do mine), we both value the nature of discourse. It really makes me glad to see you say this. Sometimes Atheists and Theists simply to consider opposing ideas to see if their beliefs are correct. If not, modifications can be made to strengthen them, or embrace a new system! Of course, it takes a lot to change from Atheism to Theism, but I think you see my point. ~

[Carôusoul]

First, Howie, you ought to know that I have received numerous messages from people saying that they have embraced Atheism because of things I have said. ~ Go O'nus!

[Howie]

First, Howie, you ought to know that I have received numerous messages from people saying that they have embraced Atheism because of things I have said. Go O'nus! Yes, go O'nus. I am glad you have converted others to, or "embraced" your ideologies. What it is' all about? Helping people embrace your ideas?

[Carôusoul]

Yes, go O'nus. I am glad you have converted others to, or "embraced" your ideologies. What it is' all about? Helping people embrace your ideas? Helping people embrace truth.

[Serkat]

Yes, go O'nus. I am glad you have converted others to, or "embraced" your ideologies. What it is' all about? Helping people embrace your ideas? Helping people think more rationally and embrace reality.

[Howie]

Helping people think more rationally and embrace reality. So in essence, to help people think rationally and embrace reality....as you see it? Yes - no What I have done and witnessed is member's thousands of posts that bicker back and forth between beliefs. That is the reality I have seen. That is good if you feel you have helped others embrace rationality, as you see they have not. Good for you, if you are correct. Also if you have managed to convey your message peacefully, all the better. It is a good way to learn about other religions. Helping people embrace truth. Yes, let the truth be known!

[Carôusoul]

Yes, let the truth be known! And there was much rejoicing.

[NonDualistic]

I find the exchanges as only an attempt to affirm someones own affirmations to solidify their belief. If they find it, then they feel it constructive. If they do not, it is a quarrel. It threatens their belief. Yes, this does seem to be the case from observing things in here. However, What is it you yourself are looking for when you come in to this forum to either read or participate? I guess thats what I am asking really. Alrighty, how many topics about this do we really need 5 days in a row? If you feel like someone is really out to get you and does nothing but insult you, take it up privately. You apparently missed the point thoroughly and completely..... I do not talk with other people to make affirmations or confirm my beliefs - I speak with others to develop my beliefs because they are beliefs. I have taken a lot from these boards and learned from many people. ~ Bingo! Exactly the sort of reply to my inquiry that directly addresses it . The whole point of inquirey is towards "why" are you here reading or participating? What kind of constructive gain is there for each you participating to one degree or another in this forum? I see rhat I could have worded the intitial inquiry better, more to the individual rather than to open generality. Here is why I read and post in here. It is not that I proclaim to know anything in comparrison to anyone else, nor is it to affirm my own view, nor to change anyone elses mind in one way or another. I already know what I see in this view, but such is that I have not yet fully defined what it is I am "seeing". Coming into a forum such as this gives me the opportunity to see how others view and describe their view. Many times I see similarities in something I have not yet labeled, hear new ways of describing it, and see new perspectives to look at it from. Comparing and contrasting truly works to more clearly define what it is I am looking at in my own view. When I get into discussions with O'nus or even Gnome, I am not looking to be right or wrong. Entering into any of these discussions from a hard stance of right/wrong is in fact a hinderance to finding what I am looking for. What these discussions do is force me to look at my view from every angle possible while I am engaged in those discussions. Selfish as it may seem, I am out to help myself, not anyone else . If someone else happens to get some help in defining their own view from my words and my own view in these discussions - then such would have to be seen as an indirect benefit from my point of view. I am more interested in what the other has to say than what I have to say. There are several indivduals I have had some discussions, including O'nus, that have been invaluable to the continuous defining of my own view. Such is constructive use I see in this forum.

[♥Mark]

What? I thought this was a NASCAR forum.

[Universal Mind]

What in your opinion constitutes a wise, meaningful, and constructive use of this forum? Conversations in which people are not fucking whining. Every time I see religious people show up here and bitch about how they are supposedly being persecuted, I think of people who show up on soccer fields and bitch that people are being mean by playing against them in soccer. People who don't want to play soccer need to get off the damn field or else stop complaining about the soccer that is happening around them. Are there any example of atheists complaining about being persecuted here by theists? I really don't think I have seen that yet. What? I thought this was a NASCAR forum. Oh yeah. They keep telling me that, and I keep forgetting.

[Mes Tarrant]

Excellent, NonD. Now can we move on? Well I suppose I could answer the question as well now, now that I understood what you were asking in the first place. The R/S forum is constructive for me because I learn a lot about what makes a good argument and what doesn't. I also learn a lot about science, which is something I am interested in. Overall, I think reading some of the posts will help me to understand some things on a daily basis.

[NonDualistic]

Excellent, NonD. Now can we move on? Well I suppose I could answer the question as well now, now that I understood what you were asking in the first place. The R/S forum is constructive for me because I learn a lot about what makes a good argument and what doesn't. I also learn a lot about science, which is something I am interested in. Overall, I think reading some of the posts will help me to understand some things on a daily basis. Move on from where Mes? I think its interesting right here, hearing what people constructively gain from this forum, including your own account. Thank you for answering

[Mes Tarrant]

Move on from where Mes? I think its interesting right here, hearing what people constructively gain from this forum, including your own account. Thank you for answering Well as long as that's the sole purpose of this thread, then hey I'm all for it! I got the impression that this would just be another thread where people argue about how they're rude to one another on the R/S forum, and we've got quite a few of those here already. Well I guess I misunderstood, sorry!

[blade5x]

I honestly don't expect anything. There are a few posters here and there that try to take things seriously... but maybe when the average age of this forum goes up about 10 years I'll be more willing to participate in more of these discussions - otherwise it's a lost cause. This forum is honestly one of the LAST places anyone should come when looking for spiritual advice. So my final answer is age... and there's nothing you could do about that. Should the average age of regular poster in this forum be above mine (20), all I can say is I'm severely disappointed. I see a lot of in this forum what I saw in myself a couple of years ago.. I mean I just don't really know. I can't see this forum ever having been intended for serious purposes anymore. (Maybe it never was, I don't know exactly what it was like before I got here)

[Taosaur]

I mean I just don't really know. I can't see this forum ever having been intended for serious purposes anymore. (Maybe it never was, I don't know exactly what it was like before I got here) Heh, basically it was a ghetto walled off to contain all the religious arguments in Philosophy, which was a ghetto walled off to contain all the philosophical arguments in Off Topic... To the OP, I like to watch the memes bounce off each other, particularly when there are a lot of viewpoints represented. Finding that occasional person of any belief/position with a well-founded or uniquely articulated view on the functions and failings of religion, the nature of things, or mystical experience is always a bonus.

[Mes Tarrant]

Blade, that's really funny because most of the active R/S posters actually are older than you. Instead of complaining, you could always set a good example and show your own maturity by posting something insightful in one of the topics.

[thegnome54]

I wrote this in "Why Rationalize?", but it really answers this question too. Since I am still young, I still really don't understand how anyone could actually believe in a religion. Most of my efforts in these areas are aimed at trying to figure out how religious thinking works (if there is any, which I'm beginning to doubt - I see much more religious assuming going on). I'm basically poking at them and seeing how they respond in a rudimentary attempt at mental dissection. The end goal is that I will truly understand why and how people believe these things, and be able to tell why I don't, or if I should. Right now religions seem stupid to me, but deep down I'm reluctant to decide that that large a chunk of humanity is susceptible to something as stupid as this seems. I conclude that I'm still missing something, and poke some more.

[O'nus]

Yes, go O'nus. I am glad you have converted others to, or "embraced" your ideologies. What it is' all about? Helping people embrace your ideas? I do not talk with other people to make affirmations or confirm my beliefs - I speak with others to develop my beliefs because they are beliefs. I have taken a lot from these boards and learned from many people. ~