Thread: A thought on the Bible...

Ok ok, so we all know the bible is real. But what if the bible was written by someguy just as a book? But then was founded by christans or whatever and made a religous thing. I mean...ok this is hard for me to explain...I always have issues doing this...but what if it was just a story for childern to look up to someone? I mean just as a idle and nothing more...but turned into something so big it then became religon or whatever...

Im sorry if this doesn't make any sense or whatever but I thought about this today...

Assuming that this thread is serious.

The bible is actually a book. It's a series of pages with text on it. That's what we call a book. It was written by numerous guys over time until some geezers thought "Cool, that's how it shall be" and then they just stopped adding shit to it. It was just a bunch of oriental stories and myths until these people thought "Hey, dude, wouldn't it be pretty funny if we told people that this is actually not just a bunch of stories but totally serious business and then collect all believers and join them in a cult?" "Hell yeah". But they actually still changed it, since they didn't really have copy-shops back then.

Reasonable question.

Imagine the results of L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. When I visited a Church of Scientology, they made subtle comments like "It is as if he was inspired by a God" etc.

So, we can see how he might be eventually revered as a God.

What do you think...?

~

Most of the new testament, at least, is historical. The Bible wasn't written by one guy but is a collection of accounts put together by scholars. Those who wrote it, didn't know about the concept of the bible. Those who collated, it and translated it did not write it. Therefore how I see it the theory isunlikely.

Korritke: Why is it that so many have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to Christianity? Chrisitans believe in the Bible, and when statements such as the bible was a mythical ""bunch of stories" made into "totally serious business", I imagine that they are offended. Please qualify this statement in order to avoid offence.

Theres no problem with such a thread as long as unfounded, defamatory statements are not made.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Korritke: Why is it that so many have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to Christianity? Chrisitans believe in the Bible, and when statements such as the bible was a mythical ""bunch of stories" made into "totally serious business", I imagine that they are offended. Please qualify this statement in order to avoid offence.

Theres no problem with such a thread as long as unfounded, defamatory statements are not made.

If anyone feels that they need to believe that a bunch of stories is totally serious business, I don't judge them for that. However, I also wish not to be judged for believing that the Bible is a bunch of stories made into totally serious business. Otherwise, I will feel offended. For clarification, I have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to Christianity probably because I hate Christianity. However, I also wish not to be judged for this (or I will feel offended).

Originally Posted by O'nus

Reasonable question.

Imagine the results of L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. When I visited a Church of Scientology, they made subtle comments like "It is as if he was inspired by a God" etc.

So, we can see how he might be eventually revered as a God.

What do you think...?

~

I think that Jungs model of the collective unconcscious is that very essence of which is called "God" in the variety of religions around. Though I would use different terminology than Jung and do not see such quite in the same way as thus far I have read of his description. ( not finished reading yet)

I Look at the situation as being one of "Inner" and "outer" consciousness.

I think that anything written or spoken of that is considered "divine" is a product of the view that results from the combining, or merging, of these two elements of consciousness in some way.

Those who do not have this "evolved" view only see through the outer consciousness. Such persons would likely scoff at the writings of such other people, even to the point of rewriting things to the end of being more "friendly" to their own limited perception.
Most likely there would be enough of the original writing left in the "new" version that others that come along later who have this evolved view, or have an actively evolving view, will recognize those pertinent parts and be able to easily disregard the rest.]

If such is true, then archetypes would exist that are the same from one "religion" to another, archetypes that would be present in such writings. I believe that they do. At least I see them anyhow.

Non Dualistic's view of God emerging from the collective unconscious is an interesting one. In the context of Christianity, there have been views like this: William Blake saw God as an active entity, that was part of the human form and consciousness to an extent; "Man is created in the image of God". Nonetheless there are other views stipulating that God is this distant figure, far removed from humanity, largely leaving humans to their own devices.







Korittke says that he will feel offended if I question the fact that he "hate(s) Christianity". Oh well, how silly, foolish and inconsiderate of me. Respecting ones free speech has a boundary, you cannot expect someone to respect an individuals hatred.

Please tell me why do you hate Christianity?

And yes, I will question any view that has been picked randomnly out of the air, or is derived from personal feuds being unfounded and made without evidence. If I said that all people with names beginning with K are of subnormal intelligence, without evidence that would be unreasonable.Then striving to ask one to respect this view is trying to descend a 10 metre wall with a 5 metre rope.

Originally Posted by Korittke

If anyone feels that they need to believe that a bunch of stories is totally serious business, I don't judge them for that.

But Korittke, if we're not to judge people for making poor decisions, then what can we judge them by?

Originally Posted by psychology student

Please tell me why do you hate Christianity?

Besides it being dogmatic, authoritative, hypocritical and hilariously nonsensical in many areas, mainly because it conflicts with many other aspects of my world view. The fact alone that the symbol of Christianity is a dead man hanging from a cross I find highly disturbing. In my opinion, this is not something to be worshiped. Dangling from a cross is no special skill, talent or achievement.

The whole of Christianity contains many aspects of self-loathing, self-restraint, asceticism and putting others before yourself which are all things that I do not endorse. Christianity is an anti-self-esteem religion. The image of Christ dieing for the sins of Humanity is so unreasonable, it boggles my mind how anyone would want to look up to that. Dieing and suffering is not something that makes you special or ethically worthy. But Christianity is obsessed with suffering (look at Mother Theresa for example).

Hey, if Christ would have actually done something useful like figuring out laws of the universe, mathematical formulas or tasty cooking recipes, I could accept Christianity more. But he didn't do any of that.

Certainly there are many reasons I disrespect Christianity as a whole. Religions I respect more than Christianity include Taoism, Buddhism, Zen, Satanism, Pastafarianism and some forms of Hinduism. Not Islam though, they're even worse than Christianity, probably the worst religion known to man. Which is worse - Islam or Scientology? That's a tough one, it's kind of like asking "Who's more dangerous - Hitler or Godzilla?"

Since I'm German, I won't say anything about Judaism though.

Since I'm German, I won't say anything about Judaism though.

That techniquely Christianity fault, espically Prostestant. Hitler said that Luther was the greatest anti semitic ever.

Saying that judaism is not that bad. First of half of the greatest scientist and thinkers where jewish(during 1900-2000). Secondly, judaism is a peaceful religion. A good example is Einstein, Feynmen, Godel, Cantor and Grothendieck.

Its a shame that their hated because of Christianity. The whole jews killed jesus argument.

Christianity isn't compulsory, so your dogamtic authoratative argument is worthless, Christians don't make you follow the religion. Only when you become a Christian do you abide by these "dogmatic" laws.
It sounds like you hate the fundamentals of religion, no religion is an easy ride, relatively all of them are commitments.

And if everbody hated everything that conflicted with their "world view", where would we be? Have you ever heard of tolerance?

Please tell me why it is "hilariously nonsensical". And please give me some examples of hypocrisy.



And your misinformed: the Christians did not hang Jesus on the cross, the Romans did, on behalf of the Priests. This is the Christians' symbol as, in their opinion, it reminds us what Jesus did for mankind. He died to offer all humans the oppurtunity for forgiveness for their sin. Christians don't worship blood or death, but the cross is symbolic for God incarnate sacrificing himself for humankind; its merely symbolic. You must experience something, theoretically or practically before you decide whether you like it or not. By your mistake you have not.


And your admission that "since I'm German I won't say anything about Judaism" implies that you hate Judaism as well, but hinder yourself from admitting it because of the Holocaust.

And how does "Islam" equate to "Hitler"? Explain yourself when you make these dangerous statements!


And Wendylove please explain how the Hitler thing is "techniquely Christianity fault".

Originally Posted by psychology student

Christianity isn't compulsory, so your dogamtic authoratative argument is worthless, Christians don't make you follow the religion. Only when you become a Christian do you abide by these "dogmatic" laws.

I could be wrong, but I would guess that most Christians are Christians from childhood onwards. And children cannot choose a religion. Also, it doesn't matter whether Christianity is compulsory or not. It's still highly dogmatic, even more so than many of the religions that I tolerate. Obviously you have to be a Christian to experience this dogmatism, but that's the whole basis of the argument, so you're not really making any sense.

It sounds like you hate the fundamentals of religion, no religion is an easy ride, relatively all of them are commitments.

I don't hate the fundamentals of religion. I already named a number of religions that I can tolerate and appreciate for what they have brought to the world and to their followers.

And if everbody hated everything that conflicted with their "world view", where would we be? Have you ever heard of tolerance?

I'm not tolerant regarding things that conflict my world view. There are really not many things that do, but Christianity is one of them, for the reasons I explained above. There's simply a limit to tolerance and open-mindedness and this limit is reached once you open the Bible.

List of things that I tolerate: theism, spiritism, superstition, general idiocy, Emo kids, being an asshole, being jobless, any personal, sexual, physical or mental choice, change, adaption, defect, inclination or desire as long as nobody gets hurt and I get my sammich. This is already more than Christianity tolerates.

I should also note that my intolerance is guided towards the religion and not towards its followers as a whole, but only parts of them. The more fundie ones, as you might guess.

Please tell me why it is "hilariously nonsensical". And please give me some examples of hypocrisy.

No, I'm too tired. Google it.

And your misinformed: the Christians did not hang Jesus on the cross

No shit. I never said that. What would be the point of hanging your saviour?

, the Romans did, on behalf of the Priests. This is the Christians' symbol as, in their opinion, it reminds us what Jesus did for mankind.

He didn't do shit. He got nailed to a cross, big deal.

He died to offer all humans the oppurtunity for forgiveness for their sin.

This sentence doesn't make any sense.

Christians don't worship blood or death, but the cross is symbolic for God incarnate sacrificing himself for humankind;

Sacrifices are nonsense, unless there's an actual connection between the object of sacrifice and the effect that one hopes to achieve. If you sacrifice yourself to your lover by catching a bullet aimed at him, this is a useful sacrifice. If you get nailed to a cross, so what?

And your admission that "since I'm German I won't say anything about Judaism" implies that you hate Judaism as well, but hinder yourself from admitting it because of the Holocaust.

You are wrong. The mere fact that I said that I will not say anything about Judaism implies exactly this: Nothing. Hence I said nothing about Judaism, thus neither expressing nor implying something.

Matter of fact, my knowledge of Judaism is very limited, so I don't actually have an opinion about it.

And how does "Islam" equate to "Hitler"? Explain yourself when you make these dangerous statements!

I didn't equate Islam to Hitler. I made an analogy between two comparisons.

You are the hypocrite: "I hate Christianity because it is dogmatic", when you are unwilling to consider anyhting and hate everything outside of your world view _ this is unadulterated dogmatism.

"He didn't do shit. He got nailed to a cross, big deal." Chrisitianity is the largest religion on planet earth, he obviously did something, take a hint. Don't you think saying that is offensive to Chrisitians.


"
He died to offer all humans the oppurtunity for forgiveness for their sin.

This sentence doesn't make any sense."

If you understood Christianity, you would know it makes sense. Clearly you don't so don't make impulsive judgments.


Wendylove: your generalising small groups to whole religions. If I said that all Germans should be blamed for the Nazis actions, I would be generalising and subsequently wrong. Therefore, you cannot generalise Lutheranism, or the actions of some catholics to the whole of Christianity.

Originally Posted by psychology student

You are the hypocrite: "I hate Christianity because it is dogmatic", when you are unwilling to consider anyhting and hate everything outside of your world view _ this is unadulterated dogmatism.

This is garbage. You are completely ignoring the list of things that I tolerate. I always put my beliefs to critical discussion.

"He didn't do shit. He got nailed to a cross, big deal." Chrisitianity is the largest religion on planet earth, he obviously did something, take a hint.

That doesn't mean anything. Don't believe the hype.

Don't you think saying that is offensive to Chrisitians.

Quite possibly. That's not my fault though. You don't get petting and warm milk only because we're dealing with a religion here. That's the whole point of mock religions: Actually showing that, if you were the only person believing specific things, you'd get criticism from everywhere or end up in the loony bin. But once you put the "religion" tag on it, everyone has to be super-tolerant and respectful about that group of beliefs which are completely nonsensical. I don't see why I should treat a religion differently from any other set of beliefs.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Christianity isn't compulsory, so your dogamtic authoratative argument is worthless, Christians don't make you follow the religion. Only when you become a Christian do you abide by these "dogmatic" laws.

Not compulsory huh? No, he just makes us burn in eternal agony in a lake of fire if we don't follow, sure, they're not making us follow their religion.

Charles Darwin denounced it on his deathbed

This statement shows you have not done research on anything on the opposing side of the religious debate.

No it came from an interpreter of Chrisitanity, not from the bible, therefore it did not come from Christianity.

Other things that come from the bible:

-It is okay to own slaves as long as you don't beat them too badly
-Eternal torture for not accepting Jesus
-Homosexuals, adulterers, workers on the sabbath should all be stoned to death

Oh yeah, wait, you're going to interpret those to fit within the current moral zeitgeist.

Please tell me why it is "hilariously nonsensical".

-You're gonna burn in eternal agony and torture if you don't believe something with no proof. But smile, god loves you
-A worldwide flood where an old geezer put every "kind" (which they still can't figure out what that is) of animal onto one boat with one window. Oh yeah, and NO archaeological or topographical evidence to support it
-The world was created in 6 days and is less than 10,000 years old (for creationists, which is, by the way, in plain English in the bible, so according to your logic it must be true).
-Moses, parting the sea, the 10 plagues, bondage in Egypt along with 40 years of wandering. Oh yeah, NO evidence

And please give me some examples of hypocrisy.

-Jesus: Look at this great grueling sacrifice I made for you! I went through so much pain. But not as much pain as you non-believers! You'll burn in a lake of fire for eternity which makes my little dance on the cross look like nothing!
-god: I'm a jealous god, but don't be jealous of your neighbor for his wife.

Chrisitianity is the largest religion on planet earth, he obviously did something, take a hint. Don't you think saying that is offensive to Chrisitians.

Oh, go with the crowd, that's your best defense of your religion?
And dude, the offense of religious people is the biggest thing stopping rational thought when it comes to religion. If you have the same faith in anything else that you have in religion you would be considered a mad man. Try it. Yes, it is time you stop being offended and look at it rationally, and if you still believe it, then fine and dandy. But don't shut it down because it questions your faith and "offends" you.

He died to offer all humans the opportunity for forgiveness for their sin.

Yes, we've all either been indoctrinated or know people who are, thank you.

it is not compulsory, which is why you guys can bash it when you like!
You guys don't understand modern Christianity, you living too much in the old testament.
First of all, ones needs to understand the context of the bible such as the slave thing. Slavery was normal then, but not now, and no Christian today will accept slavery.


"Homosexuals, adulterers, workers on the sabbath should all be stoned to death", this was part of the law of the old testament, essetially the Torah, the law. Jesus turned this all around. By his death he made it possible to be forgiven for our sin. All you have to do is genuinely ask for forgiveness, and be sorry for your sin and genuinely try to abstain in the future. And believe that Jesus is "the way the truth and the life". Is that really that hard and dogmatic?

"believe something with no proof", this is what is called faith? Now its you choice what to believe? Completely you choice? When Christians preach to you, it doesn't mean that they don't like you? it doesn't mean that their trying to indoctrinate you? From their perspective of belief in Christianity, they are trying to help you? But we have a choice? and Christianity is not provable? Its your choice? Death will come, and we'll see the truth, we'll see whose right? Who knows which way is right? I hope you all make the right choice and I hope that I make the right choice?
This reality offers no reason to bash Christianity?

"-god: I'm a jealous god, but don't be jealous of your neighbor for his wife"

If God is real then he has a right to be jealous, because inherent in the concept that God exists is that he created everything. Therefore, his jealousy is not jealousy but anger at theft. Hopefully you understand!


"And dude, the offense of religious people is the biggest thing stopping rational thought when it comes to religion". No, no, no, no, no, no, I don't say that for one minute. People should be able to do what they like? God gives people a choice, according to Christianity? You guys are just hating Christianity for no reason. And I want to know why that is? Personally, I think science, poverty e.t.c should all come first. Religion should be, largely, a personal thing.

and Wendylove: it is catholicism that advises against condom use in africa, which the pope reversed recently. But do not equate catholicism with the whole of christianity. And christianity is against gay marriages because it thinks that homosexuality is wrong.

Would a perfect being feel anger towards his creations, unless he created us imperfectly, but that cannot be otherwise he would not be a perfect creator. A perfect being just cannot exist, you can't be perfect in every way.

A perfect being just cannot exist, you can't be perfect in every way.

That theory was disproven when I was born. I am perfect in every way.

Wendylove: it is catholicism that advises against condom use in africa, which the pope reversed recently.

They read the same book. Either way, the ban has not be reversed can you provide your source. Countless people have died, which could have been prevented because of a stupid book.

Not only Catholic won't listen to reason because they have the bible to tell them what to do.

Originally Posted by psychology student

First of all, ones needs to understand the context of the bible such as the slave thing. Slavery was normal then, but not now, and no Christian today will accept slavery.

That is fine. However I must note that the entire point of having a book-based religion such as Christianity is to use the book as its foundation. But once people realized that most of what the Bible says is immoral, intolerant and garbage, Christianity slowly started interpreting things in very new ways, so as not to be accused of being reactionary and inhumane. Modern Christianity is a farce.

"Homosexuals, adulterers, workers on the sabbath should all be stoned to death", this was part of the law of the old testament, essetially the Torah, the law. Jesus turned this all around. By his death he made it possible to be forgiven for our sin.

So what? It's still in the bible and it's still denounced as something immoral, wrong, sinful, whatever. I find this pretty weak. Especially when I hear Christians go "Well homosexuality isn't really right, but if you're born that way then this is probably God's plan for you and the gay man should probably pray for forgiveness and try to abstain" or whatever garbage and get caught up in all sorts of lousy contradictions.

"Homosexuals are equal to heterosexuals": this is not a statement that can be brought into alignment with Christian ethics. And this in itself I find distasteful.

Religions that some thought went into, such as Taoism, don't even give a crap about such earthly matters.

All you have to do is genuinely ask for forgiveness, and be sorry for your sin and genuinely try to abstain in the future. And believe that Jesus is "the way the truth and the life". Is that really that hard and dogmatic?

Yes.

"believe something with no proof", this is what is called faith? Now its you choice what to believe? Completely you choice? When Christians preach to you, it doesn't mean that they don't like you? it doesn't mean that their trying to indoctrinate you? From their perspective of belief in Christianity, they are trying to help you?

There's still no valid reason for their beliefs.

But we have a choice? and Christianity is not provable? Its your choice? Death will come, and we'll see the truth, we'll see whose right? Who knows which way is right?

Nobody does but Christianity claims to know that they're right. That's the whole point.

I hope you all make the right choice and I hope that I make the right choice?
This reality offers no reason to bash Christianity?

It does.

"-god: I'm a jealous god, but don't be jealous of your neighbor for his wife"

If God is real then he has a right to be jealous, because inherent in the concept that God exists is that he created everything. Therefore, his jealousy is not jealousy but anger at theft. Hopefully you understand!

I don't.

"And dude, the offense of religious people is the biggest thing stopping rational thought when it comes to religion". No, no, no, no, no, no, I don't say that for one minute. People should be able to do what they like? God gives people a choice, according to Christianity?

Except you get to burn in hell if you make the wrong choice. That's not really a choice then, is it?

You guys are just hating Christianity for no reason. And I want to know why that is? Personally, I think science, poverty e.t.c should all come first. Religion should be, largely, a personal thing.

Hey, I agree with you. As I said, I don't really have a problem with theism as a personal philosophical position. However, Christianity goes WAAAYYYY beyond theism, since it actually refers to real world events and interprets them in a mystical way. After all, it's Christianity and not Godism.

And Wendylove please explain how the Hitler thing is "techniquely Christianity fault".

Anti semitism came from Christianity. Again, if you look at Luther he says how you should beat and kill jews. Luther basically started something called pogroms, saying that it really started during the crusades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom#...s_against_Jews
You should also look up the original meaning of the word holocaust.

HOLOCAUST (Heb., sho'ah). The word "holocaust" is derived from the Greek holokauston, which originally meant a sacrifice totally burned by fire; it was used in the translation of I Samuel 7:9, "a burnt offering to God."

Holocaust means genocide or mass killings now, however it use to mean sacrifice to god. That why some people use the word shoa instead of holocaust.

"Anti semitism came from Christianity". No it came from an interpreter of Chrisitanity, not from the bible, therefore it did not come from Christianity. Martin Luther became ill towards the end of his life, so his anti-semitism cannot be taken literally. If not you can argue that evolution is false because Charles Darwin denounced it on his deathbed.

If not you can argue that evolution is false because Charles Darwin denounced it on his deathbed.

Actually thats a myth(started by creationist). Charles Darwin did not denounce evolution.

His daughter, Henrietta, who was at his deathbed, said that he did not convert to Christianity.[122] His last words were, in fact, directed at Emma: "Remember what a good wife you have been."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin
Saying that if you make rubbish up you can argue anything.

Martin Luther became ill towards the end of his life, so his anti-semitism cannot be taken literally.

Martin Luther was a anti semitic all his life.

No it came from an interpreter of Chrisitanity, not from the bible, therefore it did not come from Christianity.

Seriously not one of the their not true chrisitian argument. The point is that most Chrisitians where heavily anti semitic in the past, because jesus was killed because of the jews. A good example is the holocaust, the church knew jews where being killed however they said nothing. When they did finally say something(saying that it was more to do with their T4 project), Hitler said jews killed jesus and that he was fighting judo bolshievism. Then the catholic church basically supported Hitler.

The point is this Christianity started the hatred towards jews, and now jews are one of the most hated people.

Why does everyone hate Christianity so much?

Atheist proberly only make up 10% of America. About 85% of people in America are Christian. Techniquely your comment only makes sense if you hate yourself.

Even then most Atheist don't hate Christian. Some critize religion, however that something different.

Why did Christianity lock up Galileo?
Why does Christianity want creationist to be taught in science class?
Why does Christianity stop abortion?
Why is Christianity against gay marriages?
Why is Christianity against condom use in Africa, even though it would save thousands of people?
e.t.c.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Atheist proberly only make up 10% of America.
Why did Christianity lock up Galileo?
Why does Christianity want creationist to be taught in science class?
Why does Christianity stop abortion?
Why is Christianity against gay marriages?
Why is Christianity against condom use in Africa, even though it would save thousands of people?
e.t.c.

I bet you also blame video games for kids going off and doing Grand Theft Auto shit.

And you probably also blame music for some murders here and there.

I'm pretty sure Christianity didn't do or believe all of those things. People did and do.