A thought on the Bible...

Ok ok, so we all know the bible is real. But what if the bible was written by someguy just as a book? But then was founded by christans or whatever and made a religous thing. I mean...ok this is hard for me to explain...I always have issues doing this...but what if it was just a story for childern to look up to someone? I mean just as a idle and nothing more...but turned into something so big it then became religon or whatever...

Im sorry if this doesn't make any sense or whatever but I thought about this today...

Assuming that this thread is serious.

The bible is actually a book. It's a series of pages with text on it. That's what we call a book. It was written by numerous guys over time until some geezers thought "Cool, that's how it shall be" and then they just stopped adding shit to it. It was just a bunch of oriental stories and myths until these people thought "Hey, dude, wouldn't it be pretty funny if we told people that this is actually not just a bunch of stories but totally serious business and then collect all believers and join them in a cult?" "Hell yeah". But they actually still changed it, since they didn't really have copy-shops back then.

Reasonable question.

Imagine the results of L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. When I visited a Church of Scientology, they made subtle comments like "It is as if he was inspired by a God" etc.

So, we can see how he might be eventually revered as a God.

What do you think...?

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Most of the new testament, at least, is historical. The Bible wasn't written by one guy but is a collection of accounts put together by scholars. Those who wrote it, didn't know about the concept of the bible. Those who collated, it and translated it did not write it. Therefore how I see it the theory isunlikely.

Korritke: Why is it that so many have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to Christianity? Chrisitans believe in the Bible, and when statements such as the bible was a mythical ""bunch of stories" made into "totally serious business", I imagine that they are offended. Please qualify this statement in order to avoid offence.

Theres no problem with such a thread as long as unfounded, defamatory statements are not made.

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Originally Posted by psychology student

Korritke: Why is it that so many have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to Christianity? Chrisitans believe in the Bible, and when statements such as the bible was a mythical ""bunch of stories" made into "totally serious business", I imagine that they are offended. Please qualify this statement in order to avoid offence.

Theres no problem with such a thread as long as unfounded, defamatory statements are not made.

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If anyone feels that they need to believe that a bunch of stories is totally serious business, I don't judge them for that. However, I also wish not to be judged for believing that the Bible is a bunch of stories made into totally serious business. Otherwise, I will feel offended. For clarification, I have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to Christianity probably because I hate Christianity. However, I also wish not to be judged for this (or I will feel offended).

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Originally Posted by O'nus

Reasonable question.

Imagine the results of L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. When I visited a Church of Scientology, they made subtle comments like "It is as if he was inspired by a God" etc.

So, we can see how he might be eventually revered as a God.

What do you think...?

~

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I think that Jungs model of the collective unconcscious is that very essence of which is called "God" in the variety of religions around. Though I would use different terminology than Jung and do not see such quite in the same way as thus far I have read of his description. ( not finished reading yet)

I Look at the situation as being one of "Inner" and "outer" consciousness.

I think that anything written or spoken of that is considered "divine" is a product of the view that results from the combining, or merging, of these two elements of consciousness in some way.

Those who do not have this "evolved" view only see through the outer consciousness. Such persons would likely scoff at the writings of such other people, even to the point of rewriting things to the end of being more "friendly" to their own limited perception.
Most likely there would be enough of the original writing left in the "new" version that others that come along later who have this evolved view, or have an actively evolving view, will recognize those pertinent parts and be able to easily disregard the rest.]

If such is true, then archetypes would exist that are the same from one "religion" to another, archetypes that would be present in such writings. I believe that they do. At least I see them anyhow.

Non Dualistic's view of God emerging from the collective unconscious is an interesting one. In the context of Christianity, there have been views like this: William Blake saw God as an active entity, that was part of the human form and consciousness to an extent; "Man is created in the image of God". Nonetheless there are other views stipulating that God is this distant figure, far removed from humanity, largely leaving humans to their own devices.







Korittke says that he will feel offended if I question the fact that he "hate(s) Christianity". Oh well, how silly, foolish and inconsiderate of me. Respecting ones free speech has a boundary, you cannot expect someone to respect an individuals hatred.

Please tell me why do you hate Christianity?

And yes, I will question any view that has been picked randomnly out of the air, or is derived from personal feuds being unfounded and made without evidence. If I said that all people with names beginning with K are of subnormal intelligence, without evidence that would be unreasonable.Then striving to ask one to respect this view is trying to descend a 10 metre wall with a 5 metre rope.

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Originally Posted by Korittke

If anyone feels that they need to believe that a bunch of stories is totally serious business, I don't judge them for that.

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But Korittke, if we're not to judge people for making poor decisions, then what can we judge them by?

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Originally Posted by Mark75

But Korittke, if we're not to judge people for making poor decisions, then what can we judge them by?

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How about the size of their truck, or how much money they have? Or how many LULZ and GURLZ they get?

MmmMmmMmmM, Possibilities.

By Jeezuz, you're right. I take back everything I've ever said.

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Originally Posted by Mark75

By Jeezuz, you're right. I take back everything I've ever said.

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On a totally unrelated note:

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Originally Posted by George W. Bush

The constitution is just a god-damn piece of paper!

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:shock:

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Originally Posted by psychology student

Please tell me why do you hate Christianity?

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Besides it being dogmatic, authoritative, hypocritical and hilariously nonsensical in many areas, mainly because it conflicts with many other aspects of my world view. The fact alone that the symbol of Christianity is a dead man hanging from a cross I find highly disturbing. In my opinion, this is not something to be worshiped. Dangling from a cross is no special skill, talent or achievement.

The whole of Christianity contains many aspects of self-loathing, self-restraint, asceticism and putting others before yourself which are all things that I do not endorse. Christianity is an anti-self-esteem religion. The image of Christ dieing for the sins of Humanity is so unreasonable, it boggles my mind how anyone would want to look up to that. Dieing and suffering is not something that makes you special or ethically worthy. But Christianity is obsessed with suffering (look at Mother Theresa for example).

Hey, if Christ would have actually done something useful like figuring out laws of the universe, mathematical formulas or tasty cooking recipes, I could accept Christianity more. But he didn't do any of that.

Certainly there are many reasons I disrespect Christianity as a whole. Religions I respect more than Christianity include Taoism, Buddhism, Zen, Satanism, Pastafarianism and some forms of Hinduism. Not Islam though, they're even worse than Christianity, probably the worst religion known to man. Which is worse - Islam or Scientology? That's a tough one, it's kind of like asking "Who's more dangerous - Hitler or Godzilla?"

Since I'm German, I won't say anything about Judaism though.

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Since I'm German, I won't say anything about Judaism though.

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That techniquely Christianity fault, espically Prostestant. Hitler said that Luther was the greatest anti semitic ever.

Saying that judaism is not that bad. First of half of the greatest scientist and thinkers where jewish(during 1900-2000). Secondly, judaism is a peaceful religion. A good example is Einstein, Feynmen, Godel, Cantor and Grothendieck.

Its a shame that their hated because of Christianity. The whole jews killed jesus argument.

Christianity isn't compulsory, so your dogamtic authoratative argument is worthless, Christians don't make you follow the religion. Only when you become a Christian do you abide by these "dogmatic" laws.
It sounds like you hate the fundamentals of religion, no religion is an easy ride, relatively all of them are commitments.

And if everbody hated everything that conflicted with their "world view", where would we be? Have you ever heard of tolerance?

Please tell me why it is "hilariously nonsensical". And please give me some examples of hypocrisy.



And your misinformed: the Christians did not hang Jesus on the cross, the Romans did, on behalf of the Priests. This is the Christians' symbol as, in their opinion, it reminds us what Jesus did for mankind. He died to offer all humans the oppurtunity for forgiveness for their sin. Christians don't worship blood or death, but the cross is symbolic for God incarnate sacrificing himself for humankind; its merely symbolic. You must experience something, theoretically or practically before you decide whether you like it or not. By your mistake you have not.


And your admission that "since I'm German I won't say anything about Judaism" implies that you hate Judaism as well, but hinder yourself from admitting it because of the Holocaust.

And how does "Islam" equate to "Hitler"? Explain yourself when you make these dangerous statements!


And Wendylove please explain how the Hitler thing is "techniquely Christianity fault".

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And Wendylove please explain how the Hitler thing is "techniquely Christianity fault".

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Anti semitism came from Christianity. Again, if you look at Luther he says how you should beat and kill jews. Luther basically started something called pogroms, saying that it really started during the crusades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom#...s_against_Jews
You should also look up the original meaning of the word holocaust.

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HOLOCAUST (Heb., sho'ah). The word "holocaust" is derived from the Greek holokauston, which originally meant a sacrifice totally burned by fire; it was used in the translation of I Samuel 7:9, "a burnt offering to God."

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Holocaust means genocide or mass killings now, however it use to mean sacrifice to god. That why some people use the word shoa instead of holocaust.

"Anti semitism came from Christianity". No it came from an interpreter of Chrisitanity, not from the bible, therefore it did not come from Christianity. Martin Luther became ill towards the end of his life, so his anti-semitism cannot be taken literally. If not you can argue that evolution is false because Charles Darwin denounced it on his deathbed.

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If not you can argue that evolution is false because Charles Darwin denounced it on his deathbed.

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Actually thats a myth(started by creationist). Charles Darwin did not denounce evolution.

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His daughter, Henrietta, who was at his deathbed, said that he did not convert to Christianity.[122] His last words were, in fact, directed at Emma: "Remember what a good wife you have been."

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin
Saying that if you make rubbish up you can argue anything.

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Martin Luther became ill towards the end of his life, so his anti-semitism cannot be taken literally.

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Martin Luther was a anti semitic all his life.

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No it came from an interpreter of Chrisitanity, not from the bible, therefore it did not come from Christianity.

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Seriously not one of the their not true chrisitian argument. The point is that most Chrisitians where heavily anti semitic in the past, because jesus was killed because of the jews. A good example is the holocaust, the church knew jews where being killed however they said nothing. When they did finally say something(saying that it was more to do with their T4 project), Hitler said jews killed jesus and that he was fighting judo bolshievism. Then the catholic church basically supported Hitler.

The point is this Christianity started the hatred towards jews, and now jews are one of the most hated people.

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Originally Posted by psychology student

Christianity isn't compulsory, so your dogamtic authoratative argument is worthless, Christians don't make you follow the religion. Only when you become a Christian do you abide by these "dogmatic" laws.

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I could be wrong, but I would guess that most Christians are Christians from childhood onwards. And children cannot choose a religion. Also, it doesn't matter whether Christianity is compulsory or not. It's still highly dogmatic, even more so than many of the religions that I tolerate. Obviously you have to be a Christian to experience this dogmatism, but that's the whole basis of the argument, so you're not really making any sense.

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It sounds like you hate the fundamentals of religion, no religion is an easy ride, relatively all of them are commitments.

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I don't hate the fundamentals of religion. I already named a number of religions that I can tolerate and appreciate for what they have brought to the world and to their followers.

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And if everbody hated everything that conflicted with their "world view", where would we be? Have you ever heard of tolerance?

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I'm not tolerant regarding things that conflict my world view. There are really not many things that do, but Christianity is one of them, for the reasons I explained above. There's simply a limit to tolerance and open-mindedness and this limit is reached once you open the Bible.

List of things that I tolerate: theism, spiritism, superstition, general idiocy, Emo kids, being an asshole, being jobless, any personal, sexual, physical or mental choice, change, adaption, defect, inclination or desire as long as nobody gets hurt and I get my sammich. This is already more than Christianity tolerates.

I should also note that my intolerance is guided towards the religion and not towards its followers as a whole, but only parts of them. The more fundie ones, as you might guess.

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Please tell me why it is "hilariously nonsensical". And please give me some examples of hypocrisy.

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No, I'm too tired. Google it.

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And your misinformed: the Christians did not hang Jesus on the cross

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No shit. I never said that. What would be the point of hanging your saviour?

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, the Romans did, on behalf of the Priests. This is the Christians' symbol as, in their opinion, it reminds us what Jesus did for mankind.

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He didn't do shit. He got nailed to a cross, big deal.

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He died to offer all humans the oppurtunity for forgiveness for their sin.

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This sentence doesn't make any sense.

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Christians don't worship blood or death, but the cross is symbolic for God incarnate sacrificing himself for humankind;

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Sacrifices are nonsense, unless there's an actual connection between the object of sacrifice and the effect that one hopes to achieve. If you sacrifice yourself to your lover by catching a bullet aimed at him, this is a useful sacrifice. If you get nailed to a cross, so what?

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And your admission that "since I'm German I won't say anything about Judaism" implies that you hate Judaism as well, but hinder yourself from admitting it because of the Holocaust.

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You are wrong. The mere fact that I said that I will not say anything about Judaism implies exactly this: Nothing. Hence I said nothing about Judaism, thus neither expressing nor implying something.

Matter of fact, my knowledge of Judaism is very limited, so I don't actually have an opinion about it.

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And how does "Islam" equate to "Hitler"? Explain yourself when you make these dangerous statements!

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I didn't equate Islam to Hitler. I made an analogy between two comparisons.

You are the hypocrite: "I hate Christianity because it is dogmatic", when you are unwilling to consider anyhting and hate everything outside of your world view _ this is unadulterated dogmatism.

"He didn't do shit. He got nailed to a cross, big deal." Chrisitianity is the largest religion on planet earth, he obviously did something, take a hint. Don't you think saying that is offensive to Chrisitians.


"
He died to offer all humans the oppurtunity for forgiveness for their sin.

This sentence doesn't make any sense."

If you understood Christianity, you would know it makes sense. Clearly you don't so don't make impulsive judgments.


Wendylove: your generalising small groups to whole religions. If I said that all Germans should be blamed for the Nazis actions, I would be generalising and subsequently wrong. Therefore, you cannot generalise Lutheranism, or the actions of some catholics to the whole of Christianity.

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Originally Posted by psychology student

You are the hypocrite: "I hate Christianity because it is dogmatic", when you are unwilling to consider anyhting and hate everything outside of your world view _ this is unadulterated dogmatism.

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This is garbage. You are completely ignoring the list of things that I tolerate. I always put my beliefs to critical discussion.

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"He didn't do shit. He got nailed to a cross, big deal." Chrisitianity is the largest religion on planet earth, he obviously did something, take a hint.

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That doesn't mean anything. Don't believe the hype.

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Don't you think saying that is offensive to Chrisitians.

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Quite possibly. That's not my fault though. You don't get petting and warm milk only because we're dealing with a religion here. That's the whole point of mock religions: Actually showing that, if you were the only person believing specific things, you'd get criticism from everywhere or end up in the loony bin. But once you put the "religion" tag on it, everyone has to be super-tolerant and respectful about that group of beliefs which are completely nonsensical. I don't see why I should treat a religion differently from any other set of beliefs.

I'll tell you one thing Jesus did, turned water into wine!! ( we assume this meant he did it instantly. However has no one considered their was no specific mention of the time it took. Maybe he got grapes, allowed them to ferment, basically how we know he did not just have a small vineyard at one point and made some good quality wines. Some Christians debate on how long it took God to make the world many now saying it was not literally 7 earth days, so we could debate something which doesn't even mention a time scale. We assume it was instantaneous, but the event could be exaggerated when written down.)

That's gonna easily have more then half the worlds people bowing at your feet!!!

I wish i could just go back in time and kill however the hell added all the hateful shit. Also i;d probably break the Mark,John,Luke etcs fingers so they couldn't spill any other hateful shit into it.

In fact out of all the main stream religions I'd say it's the most discriminative. That's my problem with every religion. Ok so maybe MAYBE 1/10000000000 chance there is a God. But he certainly has and will not speak to us, hateful people through their ideas into books. They used power and fear to spread them as fact. They traveled the world in ships to the continents of less developed people with a bible in one hand and a blade in the other. Bow or die, i guess many choose to bow, eventually they even convinced themselves what they were forced to believe was true, how sad...

damn it i keep doing this, i can't even remember what the original theads question was... damn me, at least my crusade was verbal eh?:P

"Quote:
Originally Posted by psychology student
You are the hypocrite: "I hate Christianity because it is dogmatic", when you are unwilling to consider anyhting and hate everything outside of your world view _ this is unadulterated dogmatism.

This is garbage. You are completely ignoring the list of things that I tolerate. I always put my beliefs to critical discussion."

Dogmatic? unable to acknowledge my criticism and its obvious existence. Now you are a double hypocrite, as you are a hypocrite and accused Christianity of hypocrisy! Religion is a serious thing, you should treat it with respect. Yes, I realise your "tag" argument, but this does not apply to Christianity, it is an ancient religion.

Cuddly person: Christians don't follow Jesus solely for his miracles.
"I wish i could just go back in time and kill however the hell added all the hateful shit. Also i;d probably break the Mark,John,Luke etcs fingers so they couldn't spill any other hateful shit into it". Which would mean we would still have the gospel of Matthew, hahaha, you would have failed!:boogie:
But what do you mean "hateful shit", what "hateful shit" is there? Please explain!

And please explain how Christianity is the most discriminative religion?

Colonialism is not part of Christianity, you shouldn't affiliate the two. A group of people decided to promote Christianity in this way! Christianity did not promote itself and everyone is a sinner and capable of wrong.


Why does everyone hate Christianity so much? Is it past experiences? Is it envy? What is it?

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Why does everyone hate Christianity so much?

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Atheist proberly only make up 10% of America. About 85% of people in America are Christian. Techniquely your comment only makes sense if you hate yourself.

Even then most Atheist don't hate Christian. Some critize religion, however that something different.

Why did Christianity lock up Galileo?
Why does Christianity want creationist to be taught in science class?
Why does Christianity stop abortion?
Why is Christianity against gay marriages?
Why is Christianity against condom use in Africa, even though it would save thousands of people?
e.t.c.

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Originally Posted by psychology student

Christianity isn't compulsory, so your dogamtic authoratative argument is worthless, Christians don't make you follow the religion. Only when you become a Christian do you abide by these "dogmatic" laws.

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Not compulsory huh? No, he just makes us burn in eternal agony in a lake of fire if we don't follow, sure, they're not making us follow their religion.

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Charles Darwin denounced it on his deathbed

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This statement shows you have not done research on anything on the opposing side of the religious debate.

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No it came from an interpreter of Chrisitanity, not from the bible, therefore it did not come from Christianity.

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Other things that come from the bible:

-It is okay to own slaves as long as you don't beat them too badly
-Eternal torture for not accepting Jesus
-Homosexuals, adulterers, workers on the sabbath should all be stoned to death

Oh yeah, wait, you're going to interpret those to fit within the current moral zeitgeist.

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Please tell me why it is "hilariously nonsensical".

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-You're gonna burn in eternal agony and torture if you don't believe something with no proof. But smile, god loves you
-A worldwide flood where an old geezer put every "kind" (which they still can't figure out what that is) of animal onto one boat with one window. Oh yeah, and NO archaeological or topographical evidence to support it
-The world was created in 6 days and is less than 10,000 years old (for creationists, which is, by the way, in plain English in the bible, so according to your logic it must be true).
-Moses, parting the sea, the 10 plagues, bondage in Egypt along with 40 years of wandering. Oh yeah, NO evidence

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And please give me some examples of hypocrisy.

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-Jesus: Look at this great grueling sacrifice I made for you! I went through so much pain. But not as much pain as you non-believers! You'll burn in a lake of fire for eternity which makes my little dance on the cross look like nothing!
-god: I'm a jealous god, but don't be jealous of your neighbor for his wife.

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Chrisitianity is the largest religion on planet earth, he obviously did something, take a hint. Don't you think saying that is offensive to Chrisitians.

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Oh, go with the crowd, that's your best defense of your religion?
And dude, the offense of religious people is the biggest thing stopping rational thought when it comes to religion. If you have the same faith in anything else that you have in religion you would be considered a mad man. Try it. Yes, it is time you stop being offended and look at it rationally, and if you still believe it, then fine and dandy. But don't shut it down because it questions your faith and "offends" you.

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He died to offer all humans the opportunity for forgiveness for their sin.

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Yes, we've all either been indoctrinated or know people who are, thank you.

Mainly it is the horrible quotes in the Book, and don't ignore them by saying " oh but they don't apply, oh but that's for that circumstances, oh but Gods changed now a days, he was cranky back then, oh but we don't believe anything our apostles say if it seems horrible etc etc etc" ( bar the cranky ones, they have been told to me by a Christian organization when asking them on discriminative or unfair punishments in the Bible, Bar Hell of course, but no one is that sick.)

There are a few quotes in the Bible which, even to those to like to say they are just symbolic, can seem pretty harsh and unfair:

Lets start with Leviticus 19:20 eh, since these rules are from Gods own mouth to moses.

Leviticus 19:20( this has been shortened by me to get to the point) "If a man has sex with a slave girl he does not own. He is not to be punished if he sacrifices a ram for his sin. She is a slave."

Hmm we can have slave girls, and women are property who be can only assume are being punished for being sex slaves....... So that's why some people follow this religion eh.;);)

but then we have this.. " 'Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the land will turn to prostitution and be filled with wickedness"

make your mind up mate.

ok so the following are more punishments, now i'm not saying we don't discipline people but some of these are a little harsh in my opinion.

"If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head."

" If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Of course that punishment is valid if we follow the Bibles teachings that homosexuals are an abomination. A rules that has caused a lot of suffering in this world for people with different sexual attractions.

"If a man rapes a girl in the city, you must stone him to death, and the woman as well." Deut. 22:24

Of course! It's completely her fault to! Interestingly this applies in Islam to, we saw on the news recently the women who was to be lashed for being raped. George Bush among others disapproved of this barbaric practice, and yet it is the done thing, their own God says so.

'If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal.

and they say fur is murder! lol

'If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people.

little harsh, she should have told him really, or if it was the first day of it, then really is being exiled not a bit extreme.

Ok well there are literally dozens more in Leviticus alone, most of the rules in Leviticus are sexually related, basically making us afraid of our most natural instincts.


something else rather mean

Leviticus 15:19 "When a woman has a discharge of blood which is her regular discharge from her body, she shall be in her impurity for seven days, and whoever touches her shall be unclean until the evening. And everything upon which she lies during her impurity shall be unclean; everything also upon which she sits shall be unclean. And whoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening. And whoever touches anything upon which she sits shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening; whether it is the bed or anything upon which she sits, when he touches it he shall be unclean until the evening. And on the eighth day she shall take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, and bring them to the priest, to the door of the tent of meeting. And the priest shall offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make atonement for her before the LORD for her unclean discharge. Warn the people of their uncleanness lest it be the cause of their death in their uncleanness by defiling my tabernacle that is in their midst. This is the law for him who has a discharge and for him who has an emission of semen, becoming unclean thereby; also for her who is sick with her impurity; that is, for any one, male or female, who has a discharge.

Leviticus 15:2 "Say to the people of Israel, When any man has a discharge from his body, his discharge is unclean. And this is the law of his uncleanness for a discharge... same as above for the way to resolve the sin"

so manty sins are dealt with my animal offerings yet...

Isaiah 66:3 "He who slaughters an ox is like him who kills a man; he who sacrifices a lamb, like him who breaks a dog’s neck; he who presents a cereal offering, like him who offers swine‘s blood; he who makes a memorial offering of frankincense, like him who blesses an idol. These have chosen their own ways, and their soul delights in their abominations; I also will choose affliction for them, and bring down upon their heads the very thing that they most dread."


What are we to do! No matter what we do we are going to be afflicted by God and sent to Hell, it's lose lose no matter what, lol.

it is not compulsory, which is why you guys can bash it when you like!
You guys don't understand modern Christianity, you living too much in the old testament.
First of all, ones needs to understand the context of the bible such as the slave thing. Slavery was normal then, but not now, and no Christian today will accept slavery.


"Homosexuals, adulterers, workers on the sabbath should all be stoned to death", this was part of the law of the old testament, essetially the Torah, the law. Jesus turned this all around. By his death he made it possible to be forgiven for our sin. All you have to do is genuinely ask for forgiveness, and be sorry for your sin and genuinely try to abstain in the future. And believe that Jesus is "the way the truth and the life". Is that really that hard and dogmatic?

"believe something with no proof", this is what is called faith? Now its you choice what to believe? Completely you choice? When Christians preach to you, it doesn't mean that they don't like you? it doesn't mean that their trying to indoctrinate you? From their perspective of belief in Christianity, they are trying to help you? But we have a choice? and Christianity is not provable? Its your choice? Death will come, and we'll see the truth, we'll see whose right? Who knows which way is right? I hope you all make the right choice and I hope that I make the right choice?
This reality offers no reason to bash Christianity?

"-god: I'm a jealous god, but don't be jealous of your neighbor for his wife"

If God is real then he has a right to be jealous, because inherent in the concept that God exists is that he created everything. Therefore, his jealousy is not jealousy but anger at theft. Hopefully you understand!


"And dude, the offense of religious people is the biggest thing stopping rational thought when it comes to religion". No, no, no, no, no, no, I don't say that for one minute. People should be able to do what they like? God gives people a choice, according to Christianity? You guys are just hating Christianity for no reason. And I want to know why that is? Personally, I think science, poverty e.t.c should all come first. Religion should be, largely, a personal thing.

and Wendylove: it is catholicism that advises against condom use in africa, which the pope reversed recently. But do not equate catholicism with the whole of christianity. And christianity is against gay marriages because it thinks that homosexuality is wrong.

Would a perfect being feel anger towards his creations, unless he created us imperfectly, but that cannot be otherwise he would not be a perfect creator. A perfect being just cannot exist, you can't be perfect in every way.

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A perfect being just cannot exist, you can't be perfect in every way.

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That theory was disproven when I was born. I am perfect in every way.

^

through the power of text, on the supreme body of the interwebz comes our Lord and Creator.

The perfect one, Wendylove, created LDing so us mere mortals could have a taste of supreme power, so we could bow in awe to our master. All hail Wendylove!!


ANYWAY... i'm going to stop posting in this thread, i hope it gets back on track, sorry everyone, went a little crazy..

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Wendylove: it is catholicism that advises against condom use in africa, which the pope reversed recently.

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They read the same book. Either way, the ban has not be reversed can you provide your source. Countless people have died, which could have been prevented because of a stupid book.

Not only Catholic won't listen to reason because they have the bible to tell them what to do.

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Originally Posted by psychology student

First of all, ones needs to understand the context of the bible such as the slave thing. Slavery was normal then, but not now, and no Christian today will accept slavery.

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That is fine. However I must note that the entire point of having a book-based religion such as Christianity is to use the book as its foundation. But once people realized that most of what the Bible says is immoral, intolerant and garbage, Christianity slowly started interpreting things in very new ways, so as not to be accused of being reactionary and inhumane. Modern Christianity is a farce.

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"Homosexuals, adulterers, workers on the sabbath should all be stoned to death", this was part of the law of the old testament, essetially the Torah, the law. Jesus turned this all around. By his death he made it possible to be forgiven for our sin.

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So what? It's still in the bible and it's still denounced as something immoral, wrong, sinful, whatever. I find this pretty weak. Especially when I hear Christians go "Well homosexuality isn't really right, but if you're born that way then this is probably God's plan for you and the gay man should probably pray for forgiveness and try to abstain" or whatever garbage and get caught up in all sorts of lousy contradictions.

"Homosexuals are equal to heterosexuals": this is not a statement that can be brought into alignment with Christian ethics. And this in itself I find distasteful.

Religions that some thought went into, such as Taoism, don't even give a crap about such earthly matters.

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All you have to do is genuinely ask for forgiveness, and be sorry for your sin and genuinely try to abstain in the future. And believe that Jesus is "the way the truth and the life". Is that really that hard and dogmatic?

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Yes.

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"believe something with no proof", this is what is called faith? Now its you choice what to believe? Completely you choice? When Christians preach to you, it doesn't mean that they don't like you? it doesn't mean that their trying to indoctrinate you? From their perspective of belief in Christianity, they are trying to help you?

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There's still no valid reason for their beliefs.

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But we have a choice? and Christianity is not provable? Its your choice? Death will come, and we'll see the truth, we'll see whose right? Who knows which way is right?

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Nobody does but Christianity claims to know that they're right. That's the whole point.

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I hope you all make the right choice and I hope that I make the right choice?
This reality offers no reason to bash Christianity?

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It does.

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"-god: I'm a jealous god, but don't be jealous of your neighbor for his wife"

If God is real then he has a right to be jealous, because inherent in the concept that God exists is that he created everything. Therefore, his jealousy is not jealousy but anger at theft. Hopefully you understand!

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I don't.

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"And dude, the offense of religious people is the biggest thing stopping rational thought when it comes to religion". No, no, no, no, no, no, I don't say that for one minute. People should be able to do what they like? God gives people a choice, according to Christianity?

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Except you get to burn in hell if you make the wrong choice. That's not really a choice then, is it?

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You guys are just hating Christianity for no reason. And I want to know why that is? Personally, I think science, poverty e.t.c should all come first. Religion should be, largely, a personal thing.

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Hey, I agree with you. :banana: As I said, I don't really have a problem with theism as a personal philosophical position. However, Christianity goes WAAAYYYY beyond theism, since it actually refers to real world events and interprets them in a mystical way. After all, it's Christianity and not Godism.

"Homosexuals are equal to heterosexuals", nobody said they were unequal. In the eyes of christianity, everybody is a sinner. Homosexuality is just another sin. If a person is born homosexual, this is deterministic, it is not their fault, it is only when they act out their desires that they sin, in the eyes of Christianity.

"Except you get to burn in hell if you make the wrong choice. That's not really a choice then, is it?"

The choice is to believe or not to believe. If you don't believe Christianity, then you do believe that you won't burn in hell. However, you quote slightly sounds as if you do believe but resent the coldness and brutalness of this reality, and thus rebel from the whole religion and defame it as a result. From this I am going to guess that you have some Christian influence in your life. Perhaps parents? Am I right?


"Quote:
But we have a choice? and Christianity is not provable? Its your choice? Death will come, and we'll see the truth, we'll see whose right? Who knows which way is right?
Nobody does but Christianity claims to know that they're right. That's the whole point."

Everyody claims to know that they are right, its a human thing. You claim that Christianity is wrong, which is the same thing. It comes down to human arrogance and not Christian credibility.

And finally, religion is beyond reason, it is beyond life. God, if he exists is beyond space and time. Therefore, you cannot judge religion by reason or science. What you need is spiritual direction and faith.


"most of what the Bible says is immoral, intolerant and garbage", small parts of it can be interpreted in this way. Be careful how you address the bible, please, so as not to cause offence. Try to address it in formal terms. A guy said once that the bible is infallible; if an apparent contradiction emerges then one of the facets of the contradiction have been interpreted wrongly! :bowdown:


And Wendylove, you are not perfect. For one, you grammar was lacking a few posts ago. :D

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Originally Posted by psychology student

"Homosexuals are equal to heterosexuals", nobody said they were unequal. In the eyes of christianity, everybody is a sinner. Homosexuality is just another sin. If a person is born homosexual, this is deterministic, it is not their fault, it is only when they act out their desires that they sin, in the eyes of Christianity.

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OK, great.

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"Except you get to burn in hell if you make the wrong choice. That's not really a choice then, is it?"

The choice is to believe or not to believe. If you don't believe Christianity, then you do believe that you won't burn in hell. However, you quote slightly sounds as if you do believe but resent the coldness and brutalness of this reality, and thus rebel from the whole religion and defame it as a result. From this I am going to guess that you have some Christian influence in your life. Perhaps parents? Am I right?

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No.

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And finally, religion is beyond reason, it is beyond life. God, if he exists is beyond space and time. Therefore, you cannot judge religion by reason or science. What you need is spiritual direction and faith.

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Christ isn't beyond space and time. According to Christianity, he was very real. Just like all the other things you find in the bible. So yeah, as I said, Christianity goes way beyond philosophy and spirituality. I'd consider myself spiritual, though an agnostic atheist.

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"most of what the Bible says is immoral, intolerant and garbage", small parts of it can be interpreted in this way. Be careful how you address the bible, please, so as not to cause offence. Try to address it in formal terms. A guy said once that the bible is infallible; if an apparent contradiction emerges then one of the facets of the contradiction have been interpreted wrongly! :bowdown:

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Yeah.

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Originally Posted by wendylove

Atheist proberly only make up 10% of America.
Why did Christianity lock up Galileo?
Why does Christianity want creationist to be taught in science class?
Why does Christianity stop abortion?
Why is Christianity against gay marriages?
Why is Christianity against condom use in Africa, even though it would save thousands of people?
e.t.c.

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I bet you also blame video games for kids going off and doing Grand Theft Auto shit.

And you probably also blame music for some murders here and there.

I'm pretty sure Christianity didn't do or believe all of those things. People did and do.

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Originally Posted by psychology student

"most of what the Bible says is immoral, intolerant and garbage", small parts of it can be interpreted in this way. Be careful how you address the bible, please, so as not to cause offence. Try to address it in formal terms. A guy said once that the bible is infallible; if an apparent contradiction emerges then one of the facets of the contradiction have been interpreted wrongly!

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Holy crap. Now THAT is indoctrination.

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Originally Posted by De-lousedInTheComatorium

I bet you also blame video games for kids going off and doing Grand Theft Auto shit.

And you probably also blame music for some murders here and there.

I'm pretty sure Christianity didn't do or believe all of those things. People did and do.

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He can believe whatever he wants about video games...no one has proven that violent games produce violent children. I play all sorts of violent games and it's actually taught me to be very nice...

And music has been proven to have "hidden messages" in them which caused some people to commit suicide or something.

I was going to say something else but I forgot...

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Originally Posted by Needcatscan

Holy crap. Now THAT is indoctrination.

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He has it right over here!

" If it doesn't make sense, then your reading it wrong!" . Just keep that logic if you when your reading the Bible, apparantly it's the only way it makes sense, even Christians say so.

SO if you ever see " stone homosexuals" or something discriminative. What it obviously meant was " Give homosexuals your spare stones, for you must love them even more because they are troubled"

When it says " offer your daughter to the crowd of villagers to gang rape so that stranger can stay with you without being attacked" means. " Explain to the mob hat raping is very bad, by making think about their own daughters being raped( assuming the father wasn't paid, then it's fine, this is the old God days before Jesus remember) and they will go away educated"

Also if you don;t think the OT applies anymore, i assume the commandments and the creation story, the story of Adam and Eve etc, don't apply either. Which means original Sin doesn't apply, because Jesus took it away. Which means no one is born a sinner any more, this was Jesus's sacrifice. This means unless one sins a lot, no one shall burn in Hell. The end.

BY PSYCHOLOGY STUDENT

"Be careful how you address the bible, please, so as not to cause offense. Try to address it in formal terms. A guy said once that the bible is infallible; if an apparent contradiction emerges then one of the facets of the contradiction have been interpreted wrongly!"

So if anything contradicts the Christian definition of God " All loving, all merciful", IT IS WRONG!!!!

If know an interesting programme to watch is Stargate SG-1, shame it is over. The last few series's had a group of religious people known as the "Ori". Their book and message was similar to the Bible, in fact the parables were almost identical apart from name changes. They went around converting other races by first performing a miracle such as healing a man( with technology or their Gods working through them). If the race did not accept the message of the Ori and would not bow to their God, the Ori would burn their villages and make them suffer. Then ask again if they wanted forgiveness, if they stood firm against the Ori they would kill the rest.



OK OK before i get told off i shall no longer post in this thread!!:D:D:D

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Originally Posted by slayer

He can believe whatever he wants about video games...no one has proven that violent games produce violent children. I play all sorts of violent games and it's actually taught me to be very nice...

And music has been proven to have "hidden messages" in them which caused some people to commit suicide or something.

I was going to say something else but I forgot...

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I believe that's wrong. None of that causes people to kill. People's decisions to kill cause them to kill. I hate it when people blame the tool.

Are we alking about video games or music?

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Originally Posted by slayer

Are we alking about video games or music?

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Both. Both are tools that by themselves don't cause anything. When people use them, interpret them in ways people usually don't and then end up killing people, it isn't religion's or music's fault. It's the person's fault for making a bad choice and being an idiot for regarding the law.

cuddleyperson:
you said a whole lot of irrelevant stuff in your post, i said contradictions between two pieces of text, not contemporary and biblical-contextual differences.


Need a cat scan: how is that indoctrination. It is a point of view from someone who is a true believer in the bible. It need not effect anyone.

How did video games and music merge their way into this conversation ?
Personally I believe that video games are harmless in normal people. But a person who is vulnerable to mental illness particularly schizophrenia, i think games like GTA provide a utility or ideas in which to react violently in society.
Although, music is more real than the pure escapism of games: i think that people can take violent lyrics to heart. This can be done so in a larger amount of people than it occurs for video games. Ithink it depends on how one listens to music, for what reasons. Is it just for light entertainment. Or are they fascinated by the often negative ideologies music i music. Notwithstanding, I don't think that music leads to the seemingly random killings of video games but to persons with a violent attitude.

The negative subliminal messaging in music is complete crap in my opinion, a paranoid fantasy, it does not exist.

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Originally Posted by psychology student

Need a cat scan: how is that indoctrination. It is a point of view from someone who is a true believer in the bible. It need not effect anyone.

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It fricken affects me when I have christians deciding who is going to be president, that I can't get married to my lover and telling me I'm going to hell. How is it indoctrination? Well if you saw it from my perspective (that everything you say is completely rediculous and you quite possibly should be committed) then you would know why you're indoctrinated.

fine last post here i swear! Ok here are contradictions between pieces of text...

Although these quotes areveryfar apart, i still think they are contradictions.

1.PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

2.EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

possibly your faith is in fact polytheistic?

3. MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

different accounts of Josephs father here

4. JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

so is Jesus not as powerful as his father, making them seperate beings, or are they the same one?

5.GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

it seems here that one account says God made animals before man where as the other suggests man was made first then animals were made.

6. PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1 Cor.1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

there seems to be confusion weither widsomis a positive thing or a bad thing.

7. ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Confusion whether children are to be blamed for the sins of generations before them, i assume they are as their is original sin which is meant to be passed down, but i'm not sure...

8. LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

i don't believe hares do chew cud like cows..

eh that's enough of them.

Also unrelated but i found this and it's interesting..

Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:

Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)

Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."

The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:

Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)

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Originally Posted by slayer

Ok ok, so we all know the bible is real. But what if the bible was written by someguy just as a book? But then was founded by christans or whatever and made a religous thing. I mean...ok this is hard for me to explain...I always have issues doing this...but what if it was just a story for childern to look up to someone? I mean just as a idle and nothing more...but turned into something so big it then became religon or whatever...

Im sorry if this doesn't make any sense or whatever but I thought about this today...

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it's simple really. the bible is esoteric. that is, only a few people really, fully understand it. the truth is...you can't take it literally, but you can't believe it's all fairy tales, either.

if you sincerely, truly want to understand the bible (or anything at all), you have to be open to the truth. you can't go into it with the object of getting just what you want out of it. that is the mistake people make.

Im sorry Rakjavik, but I live in Britain where politics are generally immune to religion, and the majority are not Christians but Atheists, so I am not familiar with this problem. Although I must admit my baffilition and amazement at the brilliance of a country where Christians decide the presidency, man I dreaming of it now! No wonder there are such negative vibes against Christianity, because you guys aren't allowed to live the sinful lives, in the context of Christianity of course, that you want to live. What a brilliant time to show you guys a certain song:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uQyKRaBZOHU

One more thing Rakjavik, the indoctrination thing referred to a particular sentence, which you missed. So you overreacted over nothing, calm down man, I didnt take away your rights.

"Well if you saw it from my perspective (that everything you say is completely rediculous and you quite possibly should be committed) then you would know why you're indoctrinated".

First of all, if I should be committed, then so should 240 million of the population in your country. I think you should be committed you hypocrite. You say I am indoctrinated and should be committed solely because of I have introduced Christian beliefs. Then you see it fit to moan about the denial of your supposed rights, when you seemingly deny me mine, the oppurtunity to believe in what I choose. I didn't withold your rights, the American government did, don't generalise this to all Christianity, because at the end of the day this is stereotyping.

And cuddly person, testing contradictions in English is not sufficient, test them in their original language, to really tell me if these contradicitions exist, because of mistakes through translation.

I merely said that you being committed was from my perspective. I did not mean that you literally should be thrown in the loony bin...... Well, maybe I did. I'm trying to just make the point of how your belief system looks from my perspective. I am also not trying to deny you your right to believe whatever you want, it's called religious freedom. I also did not say that you had anything directly to do with denying my rights. Christians in general (in the US) are denying me my rights.

Although I must admit my baffilition and amazement at the brilliance of a country where Christians decide the presidency, man I dreaming of it now! No wonder there are such negative vibes against Christianity, because you guys aren't allowed to live the sinful lives

Thankyou. You have just epitomized the people of your religion. Who's the hypocrite now?

Is baffilition a word?

The people of my religion? I never said I was a Christian? And yet as soon I mentioned Christianity as a pursuit of life, I was condemned.

And the Christians deciding the presidency was just humour, fuelled by surprise, because it is something I had never realised. It doesn't make me a hypocrite!

And yes baffilition is a word, hey I used it and I'm a Christian which means I'm perfect! (only joking, Mr sensitive)

It isn't Christians who are denying you your rights, it is the government by the principle of Democracy. There is still pornography and violence in the media in the USA! If the Christians were really in charge these would not exist!
Why don't you come and live in Britain: we have civil partnerships, which is essentially same-sex marriage, and, we have universal healthcare (I can imagine all the Americans licking their lips in envy):D. Yet there are still Christians in Britain, so don't blame Christians for the problems that are solely inherent in the political and demographic system of the USA.

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Originally posted by George W. Bush
The constitution is just a god-damn piece of paper!

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Woes woes woes!!! :shock: Where did you get that? If you can prove that he said that, he will have a new big time opposer.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Woes woes woes!!! :shock: Where did you get that? If you can prove that he said that, he will have a new big time opposer.

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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

:boogie:
It's debatable. There's no recording. The original source seems to be Capitol Hill Blue.

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Originally Posted by Korittke

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

:boogie:
It's debatable. There's no recording. The original source seems to be Capitol Hill Blue.

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Thanks. Yeah, it looks like the evidence is no stronger than the fact that Doug Thompson of Capitol Hill Blue claims three people told him they witnessed it. Now I remember coming across this before. It's not very credible.

psychology student, the fact that you or anybody is christian doesn't get you condemned. It doesn't make (many) people hate you. Hypocracy, arrogance, being sure that you are right on controversial and ultimately impossible to prove topics such as these do though. Now, people will probably have a pre-set bias towards you because Christians are both very widely known for this and because they are the biggest religion in the world. No matter what you think, from an unbiased view, Christians are by far worse than any other religion at those topics.

That being said, a majority of the population are self riteous hypocrites. Because they are the major religion and religion DOES play a role in everything that is influenced by humans because we put ourselves into our actions, most things are Christian influenced. The president is a Christian, so yhere is a strong Christian role in the government. As fucked as that is, its true.

Christianity, Manu of the times isn't chosen, but forced upon people at an early age by parents and grandparents. When somebody grows up all their lives with something doves in their faces by their amily and peers, it is unlikely that they will break that chain. People who are abused as hildren are morelikely to abuse as adults, people who are raised by racists will likely grow up racist, people who have alcoholics asparwnts are more likely to be alcoholics. These have all been proven, and the same goes for religion especially. So you have no argument there.

You may call all of this stereotyping, and you're right. It is, but its the truth. Just because its stereotyping doesnt make it false.

Overall, you are a hypocrit. You know less than you advertise and claim to be right, you have called badly everybody that disagrees with your own beliefs in spirituality wrong or hypocrites themselves. I'm sure that one with any sort of sense should see the problem with this.

So far from wha I've seen you're losing a fight that, if played logically, should end in a draw. Which is what I find hilarious.

"the fact that you or anybody is christian doesn't get you condemned"
oh yes it does, people have their own problems with christianity and they generalise it to me:

-"You quite possibly should be committed", said some guy who had previously not been involved in the debate, and said this solely for the fact that I cited beliefs of a Christian nature.
-Another guy just "hates" Christianity.



And the situation in America is democracy, majority rule. If you don't like it, go elsewhere, or, deal with it. This is not Christianity's fault, it is democracies fault, it is just a coincidence that the Christians are the majority, in the USA. They are not elsewhere. And I hope people observe the irony of being oppressed by democracy.

Children are brought up Christian by Christian parents because this is the only way possible in the eyes of their parents, being Christians. You bring up kids in the best way you know how, and at the discretion of the parents. Again, I see potential hypocrisy here: you don't want parents to be able to bring up their children how they wish, but you moan and groan (or the general tendency in this thread is to do so) about the fact the the so-called christian government is taking away your rights to do as you wish!
Parents will bring up their kids in the best way they know how, for Christian parents this will be in a Christian way. It is a logical process that cannot be changed by politics or anything else within a democracy. If someone was non-religious they would bring up their kids in a non-religious way. It is logic that cannot be usurped by lawful means, there is no point fighting it.


Stephent 91 said:
"You may call all of this stereotyping, and you're right. It is, but its the truth. Just because its stereotyping doesnt make it false". Are you saying that I as a person who has introduced Christian ideals to a forum, should be blamed for the Christian ethos existant in American politics, and its supposed hinderance of some freedoms, even when I have no affiliation with America and live in another country? If so, you are wrong, and such a view is meandering into idiotic imbisilic pandemonic stereotyping (essentially racism).
Maybe you missed it, but previously, I took a view contradictory to your supposed oppressors.

Stephent91 said:
"Overall, you are a hypocrit. You know less than you advertise and claim to be right, you have called badly everybody that disagrees with your own beliefs in spirituality wrong or hypocrites themselves. I'm sure that one with any sort of sense should see the problem with this".

-Please explain how I am a hypocrite.
-I didn't "advertise" to know anything, I just introduced, Christianity into a debate about the bible.
-Please tell me how I claim to be right.
-When you say "called badly", i think you mean insult. Which I disagree with, if I have pointed out inadequacies, such as hypocrisy, it is only because I think that they exist, and they are never personal. If anyone has been offended, then I apologise. Come on you know I love y'all :)

Again, I never said I was a Christian, but I will defend against anyone who unecessarily bashes Christianity or shows unnecessary religious intolerance.

Stephent 91 said:
"So far from wha I've seen you're losing a fight that, if played logically, should end in a draw. Which is what I find hilarious".
When this became a fight, I don't know, it is a debate. More importantly it so far has not been a debate between Christianity and science or the for and against the truthfulness of Christianity, but, a debate between those for stereotyping Christians (most of you) and the defence that you should't stereotype Christianity (me).
Are you suggesting that the stereotypers are winning and that naturally following on, it is right to stereotype Christianity? If not please eloborate on your statement. Furthermore, how should it end in a draw, and how is it hilarious?

for some reason you think that um blaming you or Christianity for anything. You're very lost and are taking too much at defense. I never blamed you or cjristiantt for he bullshit going on anywhere. I stated that Christianity is the major contributer to everything became it I'd the major religion. You, being the asshole you are, mistook me for the other people apparently and took offense to h I was saint and thought was bashing people. Maybe you could get off your high and mighty throne sometime and join us in logical thinking you fucking arrogant hypocrite.

I don't need to further explain anything I have said because it is all clearly there if you'd take the time to read it without misinterpreting everything and reading it like you'd like it to ne written. Now I see why so many people have given up on this topic. You're hopeless.

I'm not really here to enter the debate, just quote the following by Stephen:

"The president is a Christian"

Anyone can say it. I think Christianity is a lot less of a majority than it is taken for as any person can check off that box on the census.

That said, I am extremely suspicious of the intentions of the political religious right. After the first year of Bush's presidency I haven't seen him as being a Christian, just a politician who gets support by saying "God bless america". It's either that or he's screwing up royally with all the blood on his hands.

(<- one who chose, wasn't forced upon me.)

People blamed me, saying things like I should be "committed", for simply introducing christian beliefs. And you denied it when you said it "doesn't get you condemned". I tried to explain this to you.

if i've misinterpreted something tell me, you were unclear many times, don't start swearing and getting personal. I asked you to clarify many things in your last post that i didn't understand.

I don't need to get of my throne or anything like that, I have the highground now as you got personal and started swearing.

theres no need to swear or get personal, it easy to do on a virtual forum, just explain yourself better.

and i agree with Gestaltalteration, i dont think bush is a christian but uses this stance for support.

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Originally Posted by psychology student

People blamed me, saying things like I should be "committed", for simply introducing christian beliefs.

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Christian beliefs are as follows:

-A senior citizen built an ark that held all animals for a 40 day flood then repopulated the whole earth, while in the process having sex with his daughters (ewww)
-snakes talked
-world created in 6 days around 10,000 years ago
-woman created from a rib
-walk around a city a bunch of times and blow a horn and it will fall
-epilepsy is actually demonic possessions
-a loving god who created a lake of fire for unbelievers
-a heaven filled with golden houses where you get to worship an asshole god for eternity while unbelieving loved ones live in eternal torture
-talking bushes
-rising from the dead
-invisible angels
-invisible demons
-telepathy with a god
-a god who is omniscient, omnipotent, knows past, present & future, but yet somehow we still have free will
-a god who is always watching over us, whether having sex, masturbating, or any other personal thing
-a god without a creator
-evolution and all the evidence for it was planted by satan
-oh yeah, satan. I love that guy
-creationism
-Out of the 10,000 religions and all the dead ones from the past, their religion is the right one because their book says so and all the other books are just lying
-think that their moments of joy and happiness are caused by having a relationship with an invisible, mute, intangible god and not a process of the brain
-can't understand that micro-evolution + lots of time = macro-evolution, when a 6-year-old could figure that out
-that somehow god the father, god the son, and god the holy spirit are somehow one being split in the three even though it says nothing like that in their bible and contradicts it (Jesus: "Only my father knows the time")
-Jesus is coming back in a blaze of glory to smite the unbelievers and bring his kingdom, even though it clearly says in Matthew 24:34 that he would return before the current generation died: "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
-the soul enters a child upon the moment of conception, even though it is merely a 70-celled blastocyst in which can still split to form twins (two souls?)
-gays are wrong because their book says so, even though it is abundant in nature, and we are, after all, animals (primates to be more exact)
-good things are the work of their god, while bad things were "his plan" (apparently to make us miserable)
-that they know, and I mean KNOW the TRUTH about Jesus and god and the bible. Why? Because they have always known since the first word could be understood and their parents could start the indoctrination process

THESE are the reasons you should be committed. All these thing are completely and utterly ridiculous. Christians, take a look at Islam and wonder why you laugh at Muhammad riding to heaven on a winged-horse yet you don't bat an eye at all the things mentioned above. This, is indoctrination.

people hate Christianity for reasons. Not just because its a religion. I stated some of the reasons above. Now I don't hate christianiy or Christians. I dislike some point and views of Christianity as I dislike some Christians for some reasons. I also dislike nearly all religions and some people from nearly all religions for various reasons. I also like much more people rom all religions and like various points and have learned from many religions. My point was that people don't hate Christians or anybody just for the hell of it. Earlier you were thinking that the reasons could be envy or something along those lines. I was pointing out the hypocrity in that one statement alone. Its the "oh, everybody hates us Christians" card that is so annoying. You took that to offense and discredited what I said it seemed for no reason and acted very very arrogantly. You believe youve been a saint in this conversation it seems while youve been just as bad as everybody else. You misinterpreted everything the second you judged me as a bashing religion hating athiest, so you never read it how it was supposed to be. Thats probably why people have blamed you of anything.

I think I have a right to get personal when you assume things about me like that. Its not as easy to do online because I'm currently stuck in bed after surgery typing this on my phone ;) If only you knew me in real life so I could say the exact same things in person. :D

Gestalt, I respect you for (seemingly) having wisdom enough to think through tour
decision of spirituality.

Needcatscan:
yes but this is religion, religion is nonsensical, religion is not scientific, if it were it would not exist and we wouldnt be governed by something 2000 years old, we would have made scientific progress. I could easily judge science by religious parameters, but this would not be right. They should be seperate.
I know your just trying to promote the logical conclusion, and I understand all you arguments, and your perspective, but for many, religious beliefs are seperate from logical ones.


And Stephen:

I did not call anyone a bashing religion hating atheist and neither did i play the everybody hates me card, i was reffering the general sway of posts, heres one:

"It fricken affects me when I have christians deciding who is going to be president, that I can't get married to my lover and telling me I'm going to hell. How is it indoctrination? Well if you saw it from my perspective (that everything you say is completely rediculous and you quite possibly should be committed) then you would know why you're indoctrinated".

Take from it what you will.

I havent been a saint, everybody is a sinner, and neither do i think that i am a saint

im just defending myself, in no way did i intend anything about your character, neither was i speaking specifically to you.

but, there is no need to get personal, and it is easy to do online. And it would be wrong and hard to do it in person because then you would be in surgery again:D

That's true, I'd have to wait till I heal. ;)

The whole point of my original post was to point that nobody's absolutely right in faith, everybody is hypocritous (especially relgions), and that there's reasons why people are against religions and religious people. The end. I'm sure that any logical person should agree.

I am now also done with this thread. It's very annoying and I don't see anybody learning, changing, or any conclusions being
made.

but most importantly no hard feelings:)

I haven't read this, and I don't intend too hehe, I have no quable. I just remembered a funny anecdote from my childhood and I thought I should share it since I remembered it while reading part of the first page...

I was talking with another child...someone how we got on the subject of God.

Other kid: God can't make mistakes!
Me: Yes he can.
Other kid: No, God is perfect.
Me: Explain you.

;) thank you for bring back my childhood memory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by psychology student

i was reffering the general sway of posts, heres one:

"It fricken affects me when I have christians deciding who is going to be president, that I can't get married to my lover and telling me I'm going to hell. How is it indoctrination? Well if you saw it from my perspective (that everything you say is completely rediculous and you quite possibly should be committed) then you would know why you're indoctrinated".

Take from it what you will.

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I don't believe my one pissed off post qualifies as a "general sway" but anyway, Peace :banana: