Thread: A thought on the Bible...

Would a perfect being feel anger towards his creations, unless he created us imperfectly, but that cannot be otherwise he would not be a perfect creator. A perfect being just cannot exist, you can't be perfect in every way.

A perfect being just cannot exist, you can't be perfect in every way.

That theory was disproven when I was born. I am perfect in every way.

^

through the power of text, on the supreme body of the interwebz comes our Lord and Creator.

The perfect one, Wendylove, created LDing so us mere mortals could have a taste of supreme power, so we could bow in awe to our master. All hail Wendylove!!


ANYWAY... i'm going to stop posting in this thread, i hope it gets back on track, sorry everyone, went a little crazy..

Wendylove: it is catholicism that advises against condom use in africa, which the pope reversed recently.

They read the same book. Either way, the ban has not be reversed can you provide your source. Countless people have died, which could have been prevented because of a stupid book.

Not only Catholic won't listen to reason because they have the bible to tell them what to do.

Originally Posted by psychology student

First of all, ones needs to understand the context of the bible such as the slave thing. Slavery was normal then, but not now, and no Christian today will accept slavery.

That is fine. However I must note that the entire point of having a book-based religion such as Christianity is to use the book as its foundation. But once people realized that most of what the Bible says is immoral, intolerant and garbage, Christianity slowly started interpreting things in very new ways, so as not to be accused of being reactionary and inhumane. Modern Christianity is a farce.

"Homosexuals, adulterers, workers on the sabbath should all be stoned to death", this was part of the law of the old testament, essetially the Torah, the law. Jesus turned this all around. By his death he made it possible to be forgiven for our sin.

So what? It's still in the bible and it's still denounced as something immoral, wrong, sinful, whatever. I find this pretty weak. Especially when I hear Christians go "Well homosexuality isn't really right, but if you're born that way then this is probably God's plan for you and the gay man should probably pray for forgiveness and try to abstain" or whatever garbage and get caught up in all sorts of lousy contradictions.

"Homosexuals are equal to heterosexuals": this is not a statement that can be brought into alignment with Christian ethics. And this in itself I find distasteful.

Religions that some thought went into, such as Taoism, don't even give a crap about such earthly matters.

All you have to do is genuinely ask for forgiveness, and be sorry for your sin and genuinely try to abstain in the future. And believe that Jesus is "the way the truth and the life". Is that really that hard and dogmatic?

Yes.

"believe something with no proof", this is what is called faith? Now its you choice what to believe? Completely you choice? When Christians preach to you, it doesn't mean that they don't like you? it doesn't mean that their trying to indoctrinate you? From their perspective of belief in Christianity, they are trying to help you?

There's still no valid reason for their beliefs.

But we have a choice? and Christianity is not provable? Its your choice? Death will come, and we'll see the truth, we'll see whose right? Who knows which way is right?

Nobody does but Christianity claims to know that they're right. That's the whole point.

I hope you all make the right choice and I hope that I make the right choice?
This reality offers no reason to bash Christianity?

It does.

"-god: I'm a jealous god, but don't be jealous of your neighbor for his wife"

If God is real then he has a right to be jealous, because inherent in the concept that God exists is that he created everything. Therefore, his jealousy is not jealousy but anger at theft. Hopefully you understand!

I don't.

"And dude, the offense of religious people is the biggest thing stopping rational thought when it comes to religion". No, no, no, no, no, no, I don't say that for one minute. People should be able to do what they like? God gives people a choice, according to Christianity?

Except you get to burn in hell if you make the wrong choice. That's not really a choice then, is it?

You guys are just hating Christianity for no reason. And I want to know why that is? Personally, I think science, poverty e.t.c should all come first. Religion should be, largely, a personal thing.

Hey, I agree with you. As I said, I don't really have a problem with theism as a personal philosophical position. However, Christianity goes WAAAYYYY beyond theism, since it actually refers to real world events and interprets them in a mystical way. After all, it's Christianity and not Godism.

"Homosexuals are equal to heterosexuals", nobody said they were unequal. In the eyes of christianity, everybody is a sinner. Homosexuality is just another sin. If a person is born homosexual, this is deterministic, it is not their fault, it is only when they act out their desires that they sin, in the eyes of Christianity.

"Except you get to burn in hell if you make the wrong choice. That's not really a choice then, is it?"

The choice is to believe or not to believe. If you don't believe Christianity, then you do believe that you won't burn in hell. However, you quote slightly sounds as if you do believe but resent the coldness and brutalness of this reality, and thus rebel from the whole religion and defame it as a result. From this I am going to guess that you have some Christian influence in your life. Perhaps parents? Am I right?


"Quote:
But we have a choice? and Christianity is not provable? Its your choice? Death will come, and we'll see the truth, we'll see whose right? Who knows which way is right?
Nobody does but Christianity claims to know that they're right. That's the whole point."

Everyody claims to know that they are right, its a human thing. You claim that Christianity is wrong, which is the same thing. It comes down to human arrogance and not Christian credibility.

And finally, religion is beyond reason, it is beyond life. God, if he exists is beyond space and time. Therefore, you cannot judge religion by reason or science. What you need is spiritual direction and faith.


"most of what the Bible says is immoral, intolerant and garbage", small parts of it can be interpreted in this way. Be careful how you address the bible, please, so as not to cause offence. Try to address it in formal terms. A guy said once that the bible is infallible; if an apparent contradiction emerges then one of the facets of the contradiction have been interpreted wrongly!


And Wendylove, you are not perfect. For one, you grammar was lacking a few posts ago.

Originally Posted by psychology student

"Homosexuals are equal to heterosexuals", nobody said they were unequal. In the eyes of christianity, everybody is a sinner. Homosexuality is just another sin. If a person is born homosexual, this is deterministic, it is not their fault, it is only when they act out their desires that they sin, in the eyes of Christianity.

OK, great.

"Except you get to burn in hell if you make the wrong choice. That's not really a choice then, is it?"

The choice is to believe or not to believe. If you don't believe Christianity, then you do believe that you won't burn in hell. However, you quote slightly sounds as if you do believe but resent the coldness and brutalness of this reality, and thus rebel from the whole religion and defame it as a result. From this I am going to guess that you have some Christian influence in your life. Perhaps parents? Am I right?

No.

And finally, religion is beyond reason, it is beyond life. God, if he exists is beyond space and time. Therefore, you cannot judge religion by reason or science. What you need is spiritual direction and faith.

Christ isn't beyond space and time. According to Christianity, he was very real. Just like all the other things you find in the bible. So yeah, as I said, Christianity goes way beyond philosophy and spirituality. I'd consider myself spiritual, though an agnostic atheist.

"most of what the Bible says is immoral, intolerant and garbage", small parts of it can be interpreted in this way. Be careful how you address the bible, please, so as not to cause offence. Try to address it in formal terms. A guy said once that the bible is infallible; if an apparent contradiction emerges then one of the facets of the contradiction have been interpreted wrongly!

Yeah.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Atheist proberly only make up 10% of America.
Why did Christianity lock up Galileo?
Why does Christianity want creationist to be taught in science class?
Why does Christianity stop abortion?
Why is Christianity against gay marriages?
Why is Christianity against condom use in Africa, even though it would save thousands of people?
e.t.c.

I bet you also blame video games for kids going off and doing Grand Theft Auto shit.

And you probably also blame music for some murders here and there.

I'm pretty sure Christianity didn't do or believe all of those things. People did and do.

Originally Posted by psychology student

"most of what the Bible says is immoral, intolerant and garbage", small parts of it can be interpreted in this way. Be careful how you address the bible, please, so as not to cause offence. Try to address it in formal terms. A guy said once that the bible is infallible; if an apparent contradiction emerges then one of the facets of the contradiction have been interpreted wrongly!

Holy crap. Now THAT is indoctrination.

Originally Posted by De-lousedInTheComatorium

I bet you also blame video games for kids going off and doing Grand Theft Auto shit.

And you probably also blame music for some murders here and there.

I'm pretty sure Christianity didn't do or believe all of those things. People did and do.

He can believe whatever he wants about video games...no one has proven that violent games produce violent children. I play all sorts of violent games and it's actually taught me to be very nice...

And music has been proven to have "hidden messages" in them which caused some people to commit suicide or something.

I was going to say something else but I forgot...

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

Holy crap. Now THAT is indoctrination.

He has it right over here!

" If it doesn't make sense, then your reading it wrong!" . Just keep that logic if you when your reading the Bible, apparantly it's the only way it makes sense, even Christians say so.

SO if you ever see " stone homosexuals" or something discriminative. What it obviously meant was " Give homosexuals your spare stones, for you must love them even more because they are troubled"

When it says " offer your daughter to the crowd of villagers to gang rape so that stranger can stay with you without being attacked" means. " Explain to the mob hat raping is very bad, by making think about their own daughters being raped( assuming the father wasn't paid, then it's fine, this is the old God days before Jesus remember) and they will go away educated"

Also if you don;t think the OT applies anymore, i assume the commandments and the creation story, the story of Adam and Eve etc, don't apply either. Which means original Sin doesn't apply, because Jesus took it away. Which means no one is born a sinner any more, this was Jesus's sacrifice. This means unless one sins a lot, no one shall burn in Hell. The end.

BY PSYCHOLOGY STUDENT

"Be careful how you address the bible, please, so as not to cause offense. Try to address it in formal terms. A guy said once that the bible is infallible; if an apparent contradiction emerges then one of the facets of the contradiction have been interpreted wrongly!"

So if anything contradicts the Christian definition of God " All loving, all merciful", IT IS WRONG!!!!

If know an interesting programme to watch is Stargate SG-1, shame it is over. The last few series's had a group of religious people known as the "Ori". Their book and message was similar to the Bible, in fact the parables were almost identical apart from name changes. They went around converting other races by first performing a miracle such as healing a man( with technology or their Gods working through them). If the race did not accept the message of the Ori and would not bow to their God, the Ori would burn their villages and make them suffer. Then ask again if they wanted forgiveness, if they stood firm against the Ori they would kill the rest.



OK OK before i get told off i shall no longer post in this thread!!

Originally Posted by slayer

He can believe whatever he wants about video games...no one has proven that violent games produce violent children. I play all sorts of violent games and it's actually taught me to be very nice...

And music has been proven to have "hidden messages" in them which caused some people to commit suicide or something.

I was going to say something else but I forgot...

I believe that's wrong. None of that causes people to kill. People's decisions to kill cause them to kill. I hate it when people blame the tool.

Are we alking about video games or music?

Originally Posted by slayer

Are we alking about video games or music?

Both. Both are tools that by themselves don't cause anything. When people use them, interpret them in ways people usually don't and then end up killing people, it isn't religion's or music's fault. It's the person's fault for making a bad choice and being an idiot for regarding the law.

cuddleyperson:
you said a whole lot of irrelevant stuff in your post, i said contradictions between two pieces of text, not contemporary and biblical-contextual differences.


Need a cat scan: how is that indoctrination. It is a point of view from someone who is a true believer in the bible. It need not effect anyone.

How did video games and music merge their way into this conversation ?
Personally I believe that video games are harmless in normal people. But a person who is vulnerable to mental illness particularly schizophrenia, i think games like GTA provide a utility or ideas in which to react violently in society.
Although, music is more real than the pure escapism of games: i think that people can take violent lyrics to heart. This can be done so in a larger amount of people than it occurs for video games. Ithink it depends on how one listens to music, for what reasons. Is it just for light entertainment. Or are they fascinated by the often negative ideologies music i music. Notwithstanding, I don't think that music leads to the seemingly random killings of video games but to persons with a violent attitude.

The negative subliminal messaging in music is complete crap in my opinion, a paranoid fantasy, it does not exist.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Need a cat scan: how is that indoctrination. It is a point of view from someone who is a true believer in the bible. It need not effect anyone.

It fricken affects me when I have christians deciding who is going to be president, that I can't get married to my lover and telling me I'm going to hell. How is it indoctrination? Well if you saw it from my perspective (that everything you say is completely rediculous and you quite possibly should be committed) then you would know why you're indoctrinated.

fine last post here i swear! Ok here are contradictions between pieces of text...

Although these quotes areveryfar apart, i still think they are contradictions.

1.PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

2.EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

possibly your faith is in fact polytheistic?

3. MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

different accounts of Josephs father here

4. JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

so is Jesus not as powerful as his father, making them seperate beings, or are they the same one?

5.GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

it seems here that one account says God made animals before man where as the other suggests man was made first then animals were made.

6. PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1 Cor.1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

there seems to be confusion weither widsomis a positive thing or a bad thing.

7. ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Confusion whether children are to be blamed for the sins of generations before them, i assume they are as their is original sin which is meant to be passed down, but i'm not sure...

8. LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

i don't believe hares do chew cud like cows..

eh that's enough of them.

Also unrelated but i found this and it's interesting..

Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:

Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)

Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."

The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:

Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)

Originally Posted by slayer

Ok ok, so we all know the bible is real. But what if the bible was written by someguy just as a book? But then was founded by christans or whatever and made a religous thing. I mean...ok this is hard for me to explain...I always have issues doing this...but what if it was just a story for childern to look up to someone? I mean just as a idle and nothing more...but turned into something so big it then became religon or whatever...

Im sorry if this doesn't make any sense or whatever but I thought about this today...

it's simple really. the bible is esoteric. that is, only a few people really, fully understand it. the truth is...you can't take it literally, but you can't believe it's all fairy tales, either.

if you sincerely, truly want to understand the bible (or anything at all), you have to be open to the truth. you can't go into it with the object of getting just what you want out of it. that is the mistake people make.

Im sorry Rakjavik, but I live in Britain where politics are generally immune to religion, and the majority are not Christians but Atheists, so I am not familiar with this problem. Although I must admit my baffilition and amazement at the brilliance of a country where Christians decide the presidency, man I dreaming of it now! No wonder there are such negative vibes against Christianity, because you guys aren't allowed to live the sinful lives, in the context of Christianity of course, that you want to live. What a brilliant time to show you guys a certain song:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uQyKRaBZOHU

One more thing Rakjavik, the indoctrination thing referred to a particular sentence, which you missed. So you overreacted over nothing, calm down man, I didnt take away your rights.

"Well if you saw it from my perspective (that everything you say is completely rediculous and you quite possibly should be committed) then you would know why you're indoctrinated".

First of all, if I should be committed, then so should 240 million of the population in your country. I think you should be committed you hypocrite. You say I am indoctrinated and should be committed solely because of I have introduced Christian beliefs. Then you see it fit to moan about the denial of your supposed rights, when you seemingly deny me mine, the oppurtunity to believe in what I choose. I didn't withold your rights, the American government did, don't generalise this to all Christianity, because at the end of the day this is stereotyping.

And cuddly person, testing contradictions in English is not sufficient, test them in their original language, to really tell me if these contradicitions exist, because of mistakes through translation.

I merely said that you being committed was from my perspective. I did not mean that you literally should be thrown in the loony bin...... Well, maybe I did. I'm trying to just make the point of how your belief system looks from my perspective. I am also not trying to deny you your right to believe whatever you want, it's called religious freedom. I also did not say that you had anything directly to do with denying my rights. Christians in general (in the US) are denying me my rights.

Although I must admit my baffilition and amazement at the brilliance of a country where Christians decide the presidency, man I dreaming of it now! No wonder there are such negative vibes against Christianity, because you guys aren't allowed to live the sinful lives

Thankyou. You have just epitomized the people of your religion. Who's the hypocrite now?

Is baffilition a word?

The people of my religion? I never said I was a Christian? And yet as soon I mentioned Christianity as a pursuit of life, I was condemned.

And the Christians deciding the presidency was just humour, fuelled by surprise, because it is something I had never realised. It doesn't make me a hypocrite!

And yes baffilition is a word, hey I used it and I'm a Christian which means I'm perfect! (only joking, Mr sensitive)

It isn't Christians who are denying you your rights, it is the government by the principle of Democracy. There is still pornography and violence in the media in the USA! If the Christians were really in charge these would not exist!
Why don't you come and live in Britain: we have civil partnerships, which is essentially same-sex marriage, and, we have universal healthcare (I can imagine all the Americans licking their lips in envy). Yet there are still Christians in Britain, so don't blame Christians for the problems that are solely inherent in the political and demographic system of the USA.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Originally posted by George W. Bush
The constitution is just a god-damn piece of paper!

Woes woes woes!!! Where did you get that? If you can prove that he said that, he will have a new big time opposer.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Woes woes woes!!! Where did you get that? If you can prove that he said that, he will have a new big time opposer.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search


It's debatable. There's no recording. The original source seems to be Capitol Hill Blue.

Originally Posted by Korittke

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search


It's debatable. There's no recording. The original source seems to be Capitol Hill Blue.

Thanks. Yeah, it looks like the evidence is no stronger than the fact that Doug Thompson of Capitol Hill Blue claims three people told him they witnessed it. Now I remember coming across this before. It's not very credible.