Thread: To my fellow christians. What is your lame half-way exscue for not helping homeless

They are already inheriting the earth. What more do they need?

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

I live a million miles from the nearest city and have no way of getting there.

As excuses go, that's a pretty terrible one. Why don't you donate to charity, recycle, conserve energy, or stop buying so much crap? Any of those would eventually help the homeless, as well as countless people in third-world countries.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

As excuses go, that's a pretty terrible one. Why don't you donate to charity, recycle, conserve energy, or stop buying so much crap? Any of those would eventually help the homeless, as well as countless people in third-world countries.

You are assuming he doesn't do that already. He never said he didn't donate to charities.

Besides, he was talking to Christians. I'm not sure if he is one or not

I don't think that question is fair. Whether people donate to charities or not doesn't really determine whether or not they help out the homeless. I donate a certain amount every year to various causes of my choice. And it just so happens "the homeless" aren't one of said causes. Not donating to a PARTICULAR cause does not make you non-generous.

Originally Posted by M-Cat

You are assuming he doesn't do that already.

No one does all of that

He said 'fellow christians', implying that he is one, and he also provided a clear excuse for his own non-contribution (that he's too far to go to them), which implies that he feels like he should do so if he were closer.

I do feel that I should go help the homeless and, for clarification, I am a christian. I just want to know why no one really helps who jesus calls the least of theese

because materialism drives us more then charity unfortunately. Those who are Christian and give to charity and use up a lot of their time volunteering are very likely to have a sharing personality anyway.

Other Christians give because they feel they must, not because they necessarily want to.

So i would say the main reason is that although being Christian brings judgment from God into the equation and tries to enforce giving. Humans cannot easily override the need of self preservation, which now a days technically could be seen as self greed.

Now days, anyone that is homeless, basically chooses to be homeless. That, or they are fucking stupid and deserve to be homeless. My other excuse is that I work hard for my money so they better done some work to get a piece of my money.

If I'm friggin 18 and already bought a house (no help form others), anyone with a decent brain should be able to.

Oh shit, I'm not a christian.

Ps: I donate to sick and dying people, not lazy people.

Originally Posted by Michael

Now days, anyone that is homeless, basically chooses to be homeless. That, or they are fucking stupid and deserve to be homeless. My other excuse is that I work hard for my money so they better done some work to get a piece of my money.

If I'm friggin 18 and already bought a house (no help form others), anyone with a decent brain should be able to.

Oh shit, I'm not a christian.

Ps: I donate to sick and dying people, not lazy people.

The majority of homeless people have some degree of mental disability or drug addiction (and I don't mean nicotine or alcohol). These aren't really things you can just 'choose' to get rid of.

Do you really think someone would live on the streets just because they're 'lazy'? That's pretty ridiculous.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

The majority of homeless people have some degree of mental disability or drug addiction (and I don't mean nicotine or alcohol). These aren't really things you can just 'choose' to get rid of.

Do you really think someone would live on the streets just because they're 'lazy'? That's pretty ridiculous.

Yes. And if it is because of a drug addiction, they shouldn't have gotten addicted in the first place. If they have a mental disability, well don't they have some kind of homes or something for them? I don't know.....

Originally Posted by Rakjavik

Yes. And if it is because of a drug addiction, they shouldn't have gotten addicted in the first place. If they have a mental disability, well don't they have some kind of homes or something for them? I don't know.....

Ever heard of a crack baby? Anyways, people make mistakes. You can't blame them for not being educated about the dangers of hard drugs. You only get one chance with these things.

Some mental disabilities are not severe enough to warrant such measures, but are still bad enough to be problematic.

A few rules of common sense:

You have to help yourself before you can help others

You cant help someone who is not seeking help.

If you are going to offer help, refrain from judging those who you are extending a hand to

If you do help, dont worry about what they do with your generosity after you leave

Dont compare the "help" you give with the "help" someone else gives

Simple Kindness is many times the most effective kind of help there is.

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

I want to know YOUR exscues for not helping homeless people. I live a million miles from the nearest city and have no way of getting there. perhaps also I should learn to spell eh? I apoloogizeto anyone who had to read that wretched spelling.

Oh finally, a thread in Religion/Spirituality that isn't about ten paragraphs (seven lines) down!

Posting point - Because people do not do it, I give them a penny? It's not going to count for the probable tenner he's getting. He'll just waste it all on alcohol anyway. And ofcouse, giving him a tenner would be quite bad too, as I rarely get money from others, Ironic to say in this post.

From my experience, homeless people as a whole just want you to give them money so they can go buy more drugs or whatever it is they're using. If you took them by the hand and led them to a facility where they would get genuine help, they would escape.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

From my experience, homeless people as a whole just want you to give them money so they can go buy more drugs or whatever it is they're using.

Exactly - Hence there be no point. Although (as you said) if you did show them the way, I'm sure they would be back to normal again. But then if they broke the rule I woudn't help them again.

Yes, I think a lot of homeless people are just lazy (at least 90&#37. Yes, a lot are addicted to a substance, which is their fault. It is an illness which can be fixed. They choose not to fix it. They choose to not work, or make money.

The retarded ones.... well.... even money wont help them. So they should be in a looney house.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

They are already inheriting the earth. What more do they need?

Touche. Nice Bible quote.

I am really surprised and disappointed in some of you, my fellow DV members. I know some of you are young but your level of ignorance is astounding if you truly believe that homeless people choose to be so because they are merely lazy.

But go ahead and continue spouting such privledged drivel from your comfortable, sheltered lives (and if have a computer and can spend the night posting on DV instead of worrying about where you are going to sleep or get your next meal, then yes, you are privledged). Certainly don't take into account the multi-layered factors that contribute to people having to deal with undesirable conditions. But hey, if not thinking about (or doing anything about) your fellow human beings suffering needlessly makes your life easier than I guess ignorance is bliss.

I don't know what the statistics are in the United States, but here in Canada, the leading reasons for people becoming homeless are:

Sexual or Physical abuse - Nobody wants to be abused and often escaping into the street is the only option many individuals feel they have. This is especially true of young people who are probably not farmiliar will local organizations that could help them with counseling or assist with a financially secure exit from their current situation.

Mental illness - Whether schizophrenia or depression (brought on by abuse) this is a big one, especially since there has been little genuine assistance for people struggling with mental illness (government or otherwise) until recent years. This also covers drug addictions, since many who turn to drugs feel genuinely hopeless and are trying to escape a reality they have not learned how to deal with (or conquer).

Poverty - Stable housing is a problem when you cannot afford it. Keeping a steady job is a problem when you do not have stable housing. Low income students often miss opportunities to expand their post-high school education because of financial issues and cannot learn skills or trades that will help them better their lives and allow them to afford stable housing and keep a well-paying, steady job. Poverty is a vicious cycle that ultimately effects all levels of society when the underclass have to rely on social assistance.

I know it is easy and convenient to brush off social and economic issues when you do not have to deal with them yourself, but please educate yourselves about the subject before saying something that is going to make you look incredibly callous and ignorant. I do not mean to offend anyone, but this is a touchy subject for me.

The following link is informative if anyone is up for a read.

National Coalition for the Homeless research

You know, I read an article once about some unknown reporter spending a week as a "homeless" person. He basically begged for change the entire day. Now, maybe he was just lucky, but it came up to the equivalent of about $7/hour. That's close to minimum wage. If you combine that with welfare, they are making more than many honest people. Plus, they don't pay taxes or rent (well, I'm sure many do pay rent, but play the homeless part during the day). Things aren't always as they seem.

Some practices, though, I'll never understand... like holding a sign with lots of writing on an on-ramp. People can't be stopping for that, they're too busy... talking on the phone, while using their iPods... while driving. But I digress

I believe everyone deserves a second chance, but I don't think giving our change or donating to the organizations that feed the homeless is the correct answer. If we have a better infrastructure to feed the homeless, we'll just have more homeless. We need to offer them a place to stay for a month, a shower, and an opportunity to work for real. The unfortunate fact is that most of them would turn it down. One of my neighbours was talking to someone who seemed to be doing pretty well about buying a home... Her reason was not "I can't afford it", but rather, "I don't want to give up my free money from the government"...

YES, many are lazy... and some of them aren't. I think we should find a way to pick out the ones that are either not lazy, or medically incapable of pulling their own weight, and help them out more, and do it somewhat at the expense of the lazy ones with no excuses.

Originally Posted by Replicon

You know, I read an article once about some unknown reporter spending a week as a "homeless" person. He basically begged for change the entire day. Now, maybe he was just lucky, but it came up to the equivalent of about $7/hour. That's close to minimum wage. If you combine that with welfare, they are making more than many honest people. Plus, they don't pay taxes or rent (well, I'm sure many do pay rent, but play the homeless part during the day). Things aren't always as they seem.

Source, plz.

Some practices, though, I'll never understand... like holding a sign with lots of writing on an on-ramp. People can't be stopping for that, they're too busy... talking on the phone, while using their iPods... while driving. But I digress

Lack of education, lack of knowledge of skills or trades, desperation, etc.

I believe everyone deserves a second chance, but I don't think giving our change or donating to the organizations that feed the homeless is the correct answer. If we have a better infrastructure to feed the homeless, we'll just have more homeless. We need to offer them a place to stay for a month, a shower, and an opportunity to work for real. The unfortunate fact is that most of them would turn it down. One of my neighbours was talking to someone who seemed to be doing pretty well about buying a home... Her reason was not "I can't afford it", but rather, "I don't want to give up my free money from the government"...

"A friend of a friend of mine said... and since I no nothing of the circumstances that person is in, it must be true!"

And there is something to that story that you are purposely leaving out, or just don't know about. It seems unlikely that a person who is homeless can go straight from the street to buying a home. There is no social assistance in the world that provides the amount of money to do so. Sounds like a bunch of bullroar to me.

YES, many are lazy... and some of them aren't.

No! No, no, no, no, no! The majority of homeless are not lazy! Please provide proof of this claim that the homeless choose to be so because they are lazy. Provide links to studies - legitimate studies - that confirm this destructive and ignorant stereotype. Nobody chooses to be homeless. Circumstances, often beyond the control of the individual, drives them into situations that are not pleasant.

I think we should find a way to pick out the ones that are either not lazy, or medically incapable of pulling their own weight, and help them out more, and do it somewhat at the expense of the lazy ones with no excuses.

I don't even know how to respond to this ignorance. Yes, let's set up a pre-determined list of conditions in which all homeless people must be pigeonholed, regardless of the multitude of circumstances relevant to each thinking, feeling individual, otherwise they can just fuck off and live in misery because it is not worth our time to try and understand why anyone would seemingly "choose" to live in poverty, insecurity, and hopelessness.

Well, since this has turned away from a thread for christians, and more in to a debate about homelessness; I'd like to make a more informed post than most of you are capable of.

Ahem; Why I do not give money to the homeless.

I have been homeless, and I have never pan handled/spanged/ asked for change. I have lived in a tent, I have lived in a car, and I have lived purely on the street in the dead of winter and I have never asked for more than a ride while hitch hiking (I've also I've bummed cigarettes). Anyone who is homeless for an extended period of time is purely a drain on society. Drug abuse is not an excuse. Poverty is definitely not an excuse. In a populated area, a person begging for change can easily make at least 50 dollars a day, if not much more. I have known people who have paid for decent apartments, furniture, food, etc. and all they did was sit on the sidewalk with a cup.

If you are incapable of getting on your feet then you are either too stupid or too apathetic and I am not going to condone the perpetuation of either by giving you money that I worked hard to get. Do something for society and I will give you whatever I can. Sit in one spot asking for change from the time I go to work to the time I get out and I will not feel sorry for you.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

If you are incapable of getting on your feet then you are either too stupid or too apathetic and I am not going to condone the perpetuation of either by giving you money that I worked hard to get. Do something for society and I will give you whatever I can. Sit in one spot asking for change from the time I go to work to the time I get out and I will not feel sorry for you.

Quoted for Truth.

Originally Posted by Sekhmet

Source, plz.

Aah, ya got me. I didn't provide a source, therefore I made it up

j/k. Seriously though, it's been several years, so I probably wouldn't be able to locate that article. But here's one that cropped up:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...icle_id=446315

Of course, I think it's safe to expect a pretty huge deviation. On wikipedia, there's a much lower number. Another place I googled referenced a PBS survey that stated the average daily income was $56, ranging from $15 to $100 or so. Again, I searched for that particular one on pbs' site, but could not find it.

But here, let's make an estimate: Let's say you're a beggar and you beg one person every 18 seconds. That's a lot of time to say "got change?" That's 200 people in one hour. If 10% of them give you a quarter, that's $5 an hour. If you're also getting a cheque from the government, then that puts you above minimum wage, easily.

"A friend of a friend of mine said... and since I no nothing of the circumstances that person is in, it must be true!"

And there is something to that story that you are purposely leaving out, or just don't know about. It seems unlikely that a person who is homeless can go straight from the street to buying a home. There is no social assistance in the world that provides the amount of money to do so. Sounds like a bunch of bullroar to me.

What I left out was what can be inferred: This person wasn't homeless. She was renting. Also, I wasn't making the point that she COULD buy a home, just that the notion of giving up the free money trumped the obvious "can't afford" answer, which really surprised me. I realize that's more anecdotal than a formal study, but it irks me everytime someone asks me for change, and I can see their ipod sticking out of their pockets. Just to be pre-emptive: NO, I am NOT saying that's everyone. But it happens enough to me that I notice.

I don't even know how to respond to this ignorance. Yes, let's set up a pre-determined list of conditions in which all homeless people must be pigeonholed, regardless of the multitude of circumstances relevant to each thinking, feeling individual, otherwise they can just fuck off and live in misery because it is not worth our time to try and understand why anyone would seemingly "choose" to live in poverty, insecurity, and hopelessness.

It's just an idea. Instead of getting all riled up, feel free to provide an alternate solution. I'm all ears. You might notice, for one, that I didn't specify said conditions. Maybe the opportunity can be freely offered to everyone, and the ones that actually take it are the non-lazy ones (barring medical issues). Then, they're dictating their own conditions for whether they're lazy, based on whether or not they go for the reachable (but non-zero-effort) fruit that's being all but handed to them. You say to everyone who will listen, "Here's an introductory job... it's not going to be fun. You're going to be shoveling shit all day. In return, you get salary, a discount on living expenses, and a fresh start." I'd actually be very interested to see who would take it and who wouldn't.

Also, just so you don't get the wrong impression, I'm not saying they're bad people. And while I don't give them money, if they ask for money for food, and I happen to have groceries, I'll offer an apple or two. Sometimes they take it. Other times, they say "no, I only take cash."

Originally Posted by thegnome54

The majority of homeless people have some degree of mental disability or drug addiction (and I don't mean nicotine or alcohol). These aren't really things you can just 'choose' to get rid of.

Do you really think someone would live on the streets just because they're 'lazy'? That's pretty ridiculous.

Sounds like my mother.

Living on streets
On drugs

also

On AIDS
On Booze
On Panhandeling
On Lieing

Reasons like this i don't help out the homeless.