Thread: God proven

I don't...well...I guess...faith is believing with out seeing...so, I do believe blindly. I'm not afraid of death, never was. I am afraid of dying, being in pain...blah blah blah. But, yeah, I know where I'm going. I've had my doubts...where I think, what if all of them are right? What if God really isn't there? But here I am, believing whole-heartedly, nonetheless.

Originally Posted by Bosco

my life is full of purpose, to learn to seek the truth and i am scared of death, i am scarred of what happens next

whats so good about the truth.


to quote my man FN:



"I keep in readiness at least a couple of jabs in the ribs for the blind rage with which philosophers resist being decieved. Why not. It is no more than a moral prejudice that truth is worth more than appearance; it is even the worst proved assumption that exists"

Originally Posted by JCee

I don't...well...I guess...faith is believing with out seeing...so, I do believe blindly. I'm not afraid of death, never was. I am afraid of dying, being in pain...blah blah blah. But, yeah, I know where I'm going. I've had my doubts...where I think, what if all of them are right? What if God really isn't there? But here I am, believing whole-heartedly, nonetheless.

What I hold to be important is that you consider you life, now, to be a lucky consequence. I do not like to see people living for an "afterlife" when they have a perfectly good life to live right now. Don't you agree..?

Even from a Theistic perspective we could say that you are lucky "God" decided to create you. Thus, appreciate and live your life to the fullest. Do not restrict your individuality or be forced to believe certain things simply out of fear or tradition.
~

Originally Posted by JCee

I don't...well...I guess...faith is believing with out seeing...so, I do believe blindly. I'm not afraid of death, never was. I am afraid of dying, being in pain...blah blah blah. But, yeah, I know where I'm going. I've had my doubts...where I think, what if all of them are right? What if God really isn't there? But here I am, believing whole-heartedly, nonetheless.

You really know where you are going?!

How did you get so certain?

but Bosco, have you always been religious?

By the way you worded your experience, it sounded like before the event, you didn't believe in a high power or at least highly doubted one. You then say you can't understand the Atheist view point. If you had not had that dream, would you believe in a higher power?

It seems to me like when people say " oh i can make it so the teacher is ill by wishing/praying/using magic". Now 99% of the time when they predict the teacher is ill they end up wrong. But the one time they happen to be right, they use it as 100% proof. ignoring all the other failed attempts.

Also Bosco had you ever read the bible or had attended church, read any passages online, in school work( religious studies, philosophy)? It could be your brain picked out the 7'54 for this quote randomly from your memory. As in you had already seen,read,heard it somewhere, even if you weren't paying attention to it, you remembered it in that dream.

ALSO..lol, i think O'Nus asked you this but I'd like to know. Your proof of a higher power is this Bible scenario, the book of the Christian deity. Yet you then say you are not Christian. If this event happened to me and i had a tendency to take such an event is 100% proof, i would follow Christianity since that's were my proof came from. I'd be interested to know what religion you follow, if any known one at all.

I hate my life and wished I had died too many times in my past. I've learned to not really care about my life...welp, kind of, let me explain.

If I die, I die. I'm 100% sure I'm going to heaven and no one can change my mind on that. I am not afraid of that. I'm only afraid of what will happen there, I'm not so proud of the things I've done in the past. So, here, I've been trying my best not to think of myself, but to think of others. The mentality I have set in my mind is... "I love to help people. People come first." So, naturally, I tend to love people, no matter what. I'm not trying to make up for past wrongs...just trying to make my present and future right.

I believe that Jesus died and paid for my sins. But, I am still held accountable for anything I do.

I really don't know if that answered questions..I'm sorry.

Originally Posted by JCee

I hate my life and wished I had died too many times in my past. I've learned to not really care about my life...welp, kind of, let me explain.

If I die, I die. I'm 100% sure I'm going to heaven and no one can change my mind on that. I am not afraid of that. I'm only afraid of what will happen there, I'm not so proud of the things I've done in the past. So, here, I've been trying my best not to think of myself, but to think of others. The mentality I have set in my mind is... "I love to help people. People come first." So, naturally, I tend to love people, no matter what. I'm not trying to make up for past wrongs...just trying to make my present and future right.

I believe that Jesus died and paid for my sins. But, I am still held accountable for anything I do.

I really don't know if that answered questions..I'm sorry.

The question is how the hell did you get 100% sure?!


If right now a jesus-resembling man appeared to me in a beam of light and told me i would go to heaven once i died; i would probably be around 20% certain of it. More than anything i'd gt myself checked out at a clinic.

Reading and believing the Bible.

But.. but.. don't you question occasionally why it should be true?


Why it would be true and the Qu'ran not? Why it would be true and "The Lord Of The Rings" not?

Originally Posted by JCee

Reading and believing the Bible.

I find that many people will use the Bible as a direct reference for their reasoning and morals. Christians alike follow and interpret many of the Bibles passages to support a paramount of ethics. However, there are several problems with this:

Firstly, this is an incontrovertable fact; God himself did not write the Bible. There is no signature from God or any indication that God himself wrote the very words in the Bible. Thusly, if a person did replicate the words from God and wrote them down, then they are not the words of God but the replication and interpretation of Gods words written down by human beings. Further, if you make the step to say that a human's words are just as good as God's - then we must simultaneously accept that humans physical limitations are also evident in God.

Secondly, the Bible has been translated and manipulated many times. Consider that the modern Bible's ommit many passages and books. For example, the Book of Mary Magdalene is not included within any Bible - why? Also, consider that in 325, at the Council of Nicaea, they edited and changed the Bible's contents for modern readers. It was the very purpose of the council. It was again modified in 787. Furthermore, Paul purported his version of the bible that were revealed to him by Jesus - but not Jesus' physical manifest self. Moreover, Saint Jerome translated the Vulgate from Hebrew and Greek.

Thirdly, if you are to reference the Bible for anything, then you must be prepared to accept all of the moral reasoning within the Bible. Consider that in Exodus 21:7 and thereafter, they fervently adhere to the selling of your daughters. Questionable passages from the bible are ubiquitous (ie. a man can rape a woman and merely have to pay 22 sheckle). While people make references to the absurdity of homosexuality, they neglect these certain parts of the Bible.

Most importantly:
1 Corinthians 11:14
"Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair, it is degrading to him"
+ Remind you of any J.C. figure...?

Thus, if you reference the Bible as the foundational crux of your belief system, there are many objectional arguments which you must be prepared to answer. Namely, the translational problems (keep the telephone-game analogy in mind with this), universal acceptance of the bible, and political implications of the bible.

Furthermore, "dying for our sins" is problematic as how did he pay for the sins? Is this equivalent to me lending you $20 to pay me back? If he conclusively died along with all possible sin, then how are we still able to sin? If he died to pay Satan, then why did God send him in the first place? Also, does not the bible say that Jesus is the son of man not the son of God? This was originally the way things were prescribed but changed over time just along with the body of Mary being somehow projected to heaven whereas it never says anything about Mary's death in the bible at all! However, tradition has solidifed it as truth via Pope Pius who claimed, "It was revealed to me." So we have to dogmatically throw away all rationality and reason in order to believe in him.

However, we can say the samething in order to believe in Zeus, Zarathustra, or a flying spaghetti monster - "You just have to believe in it in order to understand it".

Just thought I would throw that in there as I do not advocate the bible as any grounds for self-proving arguments. It is just as good as me saying, "I believe Darwin is correct about evolution because the Origin of Species says so."
~

Originally Posted by cuddleyperson

but Bosco, have you always been religious?

By the way you worded your experience, it sounded like before the event, you didn't believe in a high power or at least highly doubted one. You then say you can't understand the Atheist view point. If you had not had that dream, would you believe in a higher power?

It seems to me like when people say " oh i can make it so the teacher is ill by wishing/praying/using magic". Now 99% of the time when they predict the teacher is ill they end up wrong. But the one time they happen to be right, they use it as 100% proof. ignoring all the other failed attempts.

Also Bosco had you ever read the bible or had attended church, read any passages online, in school work( religious studies, philosophy)? It could be your brain picked out the 7'54 for this quote randomly from your memory. As in you had already seen,read,heard it somewhere, even if you weren't paying attention to it, you remembered it in that dream.

ALSO..lol, i think O'Nus asked you this but I'd like to know. Your proof of a higher power is this Bible scenario, the book of the Christian deity. Yet you then say you are not Christian. If this event happened to me and i had a tendency to take such an event is 100% proof, i would follow Christianity since that's were my proof came from. I'd be interested to know what religion you follow, if any known one at all.

grew up in a catholic grade school, and yes i did believe before

what i do not understand is even if i ever heard about 7 54 before which i hadnt that does not explain how i randomly opened to that exact page

Originally Posted by Bosco

grew up in a catholic grade school, and yes i did believe before

what i do not understand is even if i ever heard about 7 54 before which i hadnt that does not explain how i randomly opened to that exact page

Simple; chaos theory. The more complicated a series becomes, the more coincidental it seems in order for it to have manifested.

For example:
This thread:
Catalyst:
- you experienced something
Manifestation:
- you decided to post it

As opposed to something complicated:
Catalyst:
- aeons of natural selection record in fossil records to show the descent of man and evolution of man.
Manifestation:
- modern man

Or:
Catalyst:
- butterfly flaps its wings whichs effects mundane wind details which expotentially grow to effect the wind patterns throughout earth which eventually cause...
Manifestation:
- a hurricane

Thus, if you want to say that random things are acts of God, then I return to my original question;
- when do we cut off random events as being not an act of God? When you the event happens with odds of 1/400, 1/200, 1/100, 1/40? When does it become just a natural event?

Either way, chaos theory and probability can still exist to explain all of these events.
~

Originally Posted by Bosco

We got talking about god and i told them my dream, then i said let me see your bible, i am going to just open up the bible to the first 7'54 i find and read what it says. I randomly opened the book not really thinking i was going to find anything and the first 7'54 i came to was acts 7'54.

The verse really started at 7'53 or so but it said " and he grinded his teeth and looked into the sky to see jesus standing at te right hand of god....exactly as my dream was.

You made a very good case for God; however, since the verse started at 7:53 and not 7:54, you accidentally gave definitive proof that God does not exist.

Just thought I should point that out.

Just as a note, what Bosco described did come up in Acts 7:55 in my bible.

Furthermore, it sounded like Stephen was hallucinating.

Also, it sounds like you're taking this out of context to "prove" God. You could also say, "I dreamed about Sprite and when I woke up, there was a sprite bottle there. Thus, God exists. How else could that have happened?"

Or, even better, to make it fair:
"I dreamed that I won a million dollars, then, when I woke up, I turned on the television and 'Who Wants to be a Millionaire' came on and someone won the million dollars! Thus, there is a God/I am psychic."
~

I'm sorry, but, you wrote to much. I'll respond to what I remember.

Ok, umm..... Jesus had long hair cause it was part of the Nazarene vow. Welp, that's why people believe he had long hair.

And, God sent His Son to die for our sins. Thus, "He gave His Only Begotten Son.." And, dying for our sins meaning paying for them....all the ones we have done and will do.

I'm not very good at this debating thing. I only came here to suggest something. I don't think I am educated enough in my belief to debate with other people who are probably far more educated in their own beliefs than I am in my own, so I will leave now. I'm probably just wasting your time.

Originally Posted by JCee

I'm sorry, but, you wrote to much. I'll respond to what I remember.

Before going anywhere, you are not a waste of time to anyone. Your thoughts and suggestions are just as good as anyone elses.

Ok, umm..... Jesus had long hair cause it was part of the Nazarene vow. Welp, that's why people believe he had long hair.

Right, he had long hair. The point of mine was just that if we are to take the bible that seriously, and accept all parts of the bible as truth, then we should also recognize that the bible says that Jesus should be ashamed of himself.

And, God sent His Son to die for our sins. Thus, "He gave His Only Begotten Son.." And, dying for our sins meaning paying for them....all the ones we have done and will do.

So, if God sent his son to die for our sins, how are our sings being "paid"? What's the difference between this and if you owed me $20 and I lent you $20 to pay me back? Because we sin 'against' God and need to 'pay' for our sins, but who or how are we 'paying'?

I'm not very good at this debating thing. I only came here to suggest something. I don't think I am educated enough in my belief to debate with other people who are probably far more educated in their own beliefs than I am in my own, so I will leave now. I'm probably just wasting your time.

As I said, you are not a waste of time by any means. I appreciate you including yourself in discussion and I hope you find yourself becoming a stronger individual because of it.
~

Originally Posted by JCee

I'm sorry, but, you wrote to much. I'll respond to what I remember.

Ok, umm..... Jesus had long hair cause it was part of the Nazarene vow. Welp, that's why people believe he had long hair.

And, God sent His Son to die for our sins. Thus, "He gave His Only Begotten Son.." And, dying for our sins meaning paying for them....all the ones we have done and will do.

I'm not very good at this debating thing. I only came here to suggest something. I don't think I am educated enough in my belief to debate with other people who are probably far more educated in their own beliefs than I am in my own, so I will leave now. I'm probably just wasting your time.

pleasepleaseplease just tell me why you are so sure the bible is true

Originally Posted by JCee

If I die, I die. I'm 100% sure I'm going to heaven and no one can change my mind on that.

I'm 100% sure that heaven doesn't exist, and at best, you'll go to Valhalla.

What do you say to that?

You can never be 100% sure of anything. You can pretend to be, but then you're lost, you're but a shell which no longer really considers the world and claws through life running on pre-established subroutines.

Originally Posted by O'nus

Edit: I just noticed that this was in the "Religion" forum where it is assumed that other faithful will respond and no one will challenge you. In that case, please feel free to ignore this post.
~

Hi, welcome to Dream Views.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

Worst. Christian. Ever.

Now you're the one being cruel, Gnome.

Originally Posted by O'nus

If we just accept that we are both trying to reach the same conclusion of "truth" then everything can be okay.

Would only that were actually the case.

Originally Posted by M-Cat

You made a very good case for God; however, since the verse started at 7:53 and not 7:54, you accidentally gave definitive proof that God does not exist.

Uh, no. That's wrong. If I told you "The Earth is mostly spherical because rocks at the bottom of rivers are round" and it was observed that this conclusion is non-sequitur, it doesn't immediately mean that the conclusion is false on those grounds alone.

Anyway, here's the real 100 truth about why Bosco is right. Isn't it obvious? 75, and four letters in the name. Clearly I am god. Since here I am posting, I obviously exist. Do you know how low the chances of those numbers being accurate to My name are? I rest our case.

Originally Posted by Mark75

Hi, welcome to Dream Views.

Now you're the one being cruel, Gnome.

Would only that were actually the case.

Uh, no. That's wrong. If I told you "The Earth is mostly spherical because rocks at the bottom of rivers are round" and it was observed that this conclusion is non-sequitur, it doesn't immediately mean that the conclusion is false on those grounds alone.

Anyway, here's the real 100 truth about why Bosco is right. Isn't it obvious? 75, and four letters in the name. Clearly I am god. Since here I am posting, I obviously exist. Do you know how low the chances of those numbers being accurate to My name are? I rest our case.

So sayeth thy Holy one.


~

o boy do i smell something ! this person is more like a provocant, than a dreamer or believer. Talking about GOD dressed as Jesus LOL! comon, how primitive are you, Go look for a village in china, who have a bible and history of jesus. He survived and his bones are buried in china. As i read ur reponses, your more a racist, trying to convert for the sake of your so called "Faith"

Originally Posted by born_2_kill

o boy do i smell something ! this person is more like a provocant, than a dreamer or believer. Talking about GOD dressed as Jesus LOL! comon, how primitive are you, Go look for a village in china, who have a bible and history of jesus. He survived and his bones are buried in china. As i read ur reponses, your more a racist, trying to convert for the sake of your so called "Faith"

In his defense, I have been asking him to give us reason to believe his faith.
~

Originally Posted by born_2_kill

*FACEHITKEYBOARD*

For someone who's title is listed as "reality is an illusion" you don't seem like much of a "believer" yourself.

I doubt he has a reason to have faith. The word "Faith" sounds like a fairytail, the Vatican sure has a good life going, and all they have is the word called "Faith". Numerous, studies have been going on. They target the people who have nothing left but to believe in faith, and surrender their dignity.