Thread: Declaration of Independence, a list of grievances

I apologize to all those I am about to offend, but it is time we put an end to tyranny.

We have an idea today, this is to start our own declaration of indepenence. It shall be in similar context as the United States declaration.http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/declare.htm

Here, today, November 17th, 2007, we are starting a movement, we will shout it out anywhere we have to, its time this stops.

But before we do that, I invite others to help along the way. Regardless of which religion is true (or the more likely event, which is not true) it is for a fact certain, life will be far better once religion is gone from the face of the Earth.





When for an extended amount of time it is shown that something divides the people, and also is obvious that there is no necessary reason to keep such a force, those who see this injustice should speak out and destroy whatever remnants of travesty which should occur. I speak now what is undeniable. There is no reason for the ruling so many find themselves under. It is true too that those under ruling try to change what they find appalling under this ruling, but keep what is of use to them in their own form of tyranny in which they find comfort in believing it is also the one true way to act. It is neither by dictator’s force, nor by threats of violence such as to become a terrorist that we fight, as would the entity we should raise against use, but by peace and logic to gain majority. I submit to you, humane people of Earth, truth.

It has controlled many different sects, under many different names, and not permitting change in its hypocrisy.
It has forbidden any of those who wish to save all, if not under one of the same house.
It has warped the minds of the young into horrible acts, which they deem necessary under its ruling.
It has convinced all that whatever good comes is by its grace, but evils by its wisdom, when it is far too true we know that evil is never done by a wise being.
It has obstructed that in which we live, by convincing time is not worth being spent, for it is the afterlife that is of importance, which is also shown no proof of existing.
It has convinced many to hate for no apparent reason.
It is under the ruling of many, and has no single voice, but still under the shambling of a great many, laws are made and subjugate humans to.
It has encouraged ignorance in biology, physics, chemistry, and astronomy, and has indoctrinated these same ignorances into children

Now anyone who would like to help fill in the list of grievances be my guest, a conclusion shall be written upon completion of grievances.

It has encouraged ignorance in biology, physics, chemistry, and astronomy, and has indoctrinated these same ignorances into children

are we talking about all religion here or just fundamentalism?

Originally Posted by Matt5678

are we talking about all religion here or just fundamentalism?

all religion =)

I don't want to say we should be athiests...although I guess I am...i'm saying we should just push religion out of the window completely. Like our past ancestors who have pushed zeus, thor, odin, and every other crazy god out of the window, we should push every other religion too. I mean, we have been better off not believing in all the other gods we've gotten rid of...so you realize it only makes sense that less gods = better world.

Religion creates more problems than it solves.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Religion creates more problems than it solves.

it doesnt have to......

Originally Posted by Matt5678

it doesnt have to......

? If everyone were the same religion, and that religion wasn't hypocritical and did not act as a terrorist by threatening eternal punishment for being "evil", and did not have rules over unimportant things that are "bad" by its standards but if you think about it logically you realize it is of no consequence.

It makes atheists angry because everyone else thinks they're idiots.

Just kidding (kinda). Every great thing has its downfalls. Some of your points are valid but the argument should be more against forced religion, not religion in general. Everyone should look at the facts and decide for themselves. If we get rid of religion in the world there would be consequences. People would have nothing to go to when a friend dies or when things don't go their way. Also there would be more immorality, because most people will do what is best for them if they know there are no consequences (well most of us already do).

Basically what I am saying is extreme forced religions=sometimes bad, belief in a god=not inherently bad.

Originally Posted by ThePhobiaViewed

Basically what I am saying is extreme forced religions=sometimes bad, belief in a god=not inherently bad.

put very well.

Originally Posted by ThePhobiaViewed

It makes atheists angry because everyone else thinks they're idiots.

Just kidding (kinda). Every great thing has its downfalls. Some of your points are valid but the argument should be more against forced religion, not religion in general. Everyone should look at the facts and decide for themselves. If we get rid of religion in the world there would be consequences. People would have nothing to go to when a friend dies or when things don't go their way. Also there would be more immorality, because most people will do what is best for them if they know there are no consequences (well most of us already do).

Basically what I am saying is extreme forced religions=sometimes bad, belief in a god=not inherently bad.

Silly, countries that are nationally atheistic have already proven to have less crime =)

And I dare say false hope is worse than no hope...

still religion is the largest source of division among the world, and each of them think they are correct...so to them they think oh well its ok, i'm right, I have the right to be a source of division, it's everyone else who should stop bickering...blah blah blah.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Silly, countries that are nationally atheistic have already proven to have less crime =)

And I dare say false hope is worse than no hope...

still religion is the largest source of division among the world, and each of them think they are correct...so to them they think oh well its ok, i'm right, I have the right to be a source of division, it's everyone else who should stop bickering...blah blah blah.

You may not realize it but that is exactly what you atheists are doing here, saying stop the bickering. You THINK your right, as you can't disprove god. Atheism works like a religion, You attract followers, you denounce other beliefs, and you claim to have the right answers. I know you may not see it this way but Atheism is a godless religion founded in science.

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

You may not realize it but that is exactly what you atheists are doing here, saying stop the bickering. You THINK your right, as you can't disprove god. Atheism works like a religion, You attract followers, you denounce other beliefs, and you claim to have the right answers. I know you may not see it this way but Atheism is a godless religion founded in science.

I'm an atheist merely because I don't believe in a God.

This in no way effects my way of living. I don't try to attract followers.


The reason I am an atheist is simply because I believe what is rational and in front of me.



Religions generally require faith of some sort.
Atheism doesn't.It merely requires logical rational thinking.

Rational reasoning; is by no means a religion. It's just true, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

You may not realize it but that is exactly what you atheists are doing here, saying stop the bickering. You THINK your right, as you can't disprove god. Atheism works like a religion, You attract followers, you denounce other beliefs, and you claim to have the right answers. I know you may not see it this way but Atheism is a godless religion founded in science.

That's not true at all, I offer no answers, I do the opposite, I denounce answers. Saying that I am doing something does not make it so. I declare that I do not know everything. Human beings, with all we have learned so far, are still in the dark ages compared to what there is to know in the universe. Your only trying to make me sound like you so that you can nit pick me about it, which is rather poetic irony if you think about it. One thing beyond all things is true, regardless of anything else, compassion is the important force in human society, it is why we have progressed as a society, and it is why we continue to grow, not some spiritual bull shit. That and along with just being genetically more capable than other animals. I am simple saying that it is better to say "I don't know" than it is to say "I've been taught" when they can not provide evidence of any kind that points to the answers that one might give. The world would be better off without religion for the reason that once we get rid of the foolish idea of the "afterlife" and some "wrath" for evil deeds, we can start studying the universe without ignorance, and we can benefit society without having to worry about "ethics" that are based off of some "benevolent" being rather than logic and compassion.

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

I know you may not see it this way but Atheism is a godless religion founded in science.

Not that again. You don't know the definition of the word "religion". Is not believing in Santa Claus a religion? No. Atheism is the same way.

Originally Posted by ThePhobiaViewed

Also there would be more immorality, because most people will do what is best for them if they know there are no consequences (well most of us already do).

As if religious people are less immoral. It seems to me to be an direct correlation (more religious = more immoral.) People who tend to be immoral, tend to be religious, because they are trying to compensate. Hence so many priests who are child-molesters. Religion doesn't seem to help them a lot.

The consequences of immorality are present in the legal system.

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

As if religious people are less immoral. It seems to me to be an direct correlation (more religious = more immoral.) People who tend to be immoral, tend to be religious, because they are trying to compensate. Hence so many priests who are child-molesters. Religion doesn't seem to help them a lot.

The consequences of immorality are present in the legal system.

It is soo hard to make any opposing discussion without being accused of generalizing.
But at that risk; Why do so many people become born again Christians? For their unrighteous behavior that they now can find repentance.
Many use religion because they know that they are safeguarded from the mistakes that we will ALL make, and make often.

Contrary to popular belief from religious people, people with out faith do not run about with a anarchist's point of view. With no care OF the world.
To the contrary, I find that they often use logic to base their decisions. I.E. -This is a world I have to live in so... with

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

As if religious people are less immoral. It seems to me to be an direct correlation (more religious = more immoral.) People who tend to be immoral, tend to be religious, because they are trying to compensate. Hence so many priests who are child-molesters. Religion doesn't seem to help them a lot.

The consequences of immorality are present in the legal system.

I know that alot of religious people (or probably more the ones who claim to be) do fall under what you mentioned. I probably could have worded my statement better. I added the "(well most of us already do)" to show that religious people often don't act it.