Declaration of Independence, a list of grievances

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11-21-2007, 04:15 PM
Sandform

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt5678

i think i am beginning to understand your point (correct me if im wrong) you think people can still believe in god and have a personal spiritual opinion, but religious institutions create evil. and if this is your point i can agree with you. take the Vatican for instance. in the middle ages the Roman catholic church had its hands in everything. From the way kings ruled to the way people thought. After the Black Death the Roman Catholic Church lost power. This loss of authority is probably what sparked the Italian Renaissance. One of the greatest periods of art and learning in the history of the world, so it is simple to see that most religious authoritarian institutions are harmful to the growth of society and when they are gone the beauty of human expression is allowed to shine through.

atleast, this is what i am getting from your post

I think you kind of understand what I'm saying. I don't care if you believe in God, or gods, or whatever the hell you want to believe in, but I want people to stop basing their lives on religious bull shit. It is unnecessary, and it serves no point whatsoever. Of course as an atheist I would prefer if people didn't believe in God's or god's thus that is reflected in my opinions, but the only thing I think that must be done is to do away with basing the way you live your life on rules that leave no room for change. And as a lazy person, the only thing I care about is what must be done =P.

I believe somewhere on these forums another person posted a quote from the teachings of Bhudda. I'm paraphrasing but...

'trust nothing that is said, indeed even if I have said it, if it does not coincide with what you believe'
11-29-2007, 01:30 PM
Lucid_boy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandform

Silly, countries that are nationally atheistic have already proven to have less crime =)

And I dare say false hope is worse than no hope...

still religion is the largest source of division among the world, and each of them think they are correct...so to them they think oh well its ok, i'm right, I have the right to be a source of division, it's everyone else who should stop bickering...blah blah blah.

You may not realize it but that is exactly what you atheists are doing here, saying stop the bickering. You THINK your right, as you can't disprove god. Atheism works like a religion, You attract followers, you denounce other beliefs, and you claim to have the right answers. I know you may not see it this way but Atheism is a godless religion founded in science.
11-29-2007, 01:43 PM
Carôusoul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

You may not realize it but that is exactly what you atheists are doing here, saying stop the bickering. You THINK your right, as you can't disprove god. Atheism works like a religion, You attract followers, you denounce other beliefs, and you claim to have the right answers. I know you may not see it this way but Atheism is a godless religion founded in science.

I'm an atheist merely because I don't believe in a God.

This in no way effects my way of living. I don't try to attract followers.

The reason I am an atheist is simply because I believe what is rational and in front of me.

Religions generally require faith of some sort.
Atheism doesn't.It merely requires logical rational thinking.

Rational reasoning; is by no means a religion. It's just true, I'm afraid.
12-02-2007, 07:56 PM
Sandform

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

You may not realize it but that is exactly what you atheists are doing here, saying stop the bickering. You THINK your right, as you can't disprove god. Atheism works like a religion, You attract followers, you denounce other beliefs, and you claim to have the right answers. I know you may not see it this way but Atheism is a godless religion founded in science.

That's not true at all, I offer no answers, I do the opposite, I denounce answers. Saying that I am doing something does not make it so. I declare that I do not know everything. Human beings, with all we have learned so far, are still in the dark ages compared to what there is to know in the universe. Your only trying to make me sound like you so that you can nit pick me about it, which is rather poetic irony if you think about it. One thing beyond all things is true, regardless of anything else, compassion is the important force in human society, it is why we have progressed as a society, and it is why we continue to grow, not some spiritual bull shit. That and along with just being genetically more capable than other animals. I am simple saying that it is better to say "I don't know" than it is to say "I've been taught" when they can not provide evidence of any kind that points to the answers that one might give. The world would be better off without religion for the reason that once we get rid of the foolish idea of the "afterlife" and some "wrath" for evil deeds, we can start studying the universe without ignorance, and we can benefit society without having to worry about "ethics" that are based off of some "benevolent" being rather than logic and compassion.
12-02-2007, 08:29 PM
Moonbeam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

I know you may not see it this way but Atheism is a godless religion founded in science.

Not that again. You don't know the definition of the word "religion". Is not believing in Santa Claus a religion? No. Atheism is the same way.
12-03-2007, 07:01 AM
Xaqaria

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandform

That's not true at all, I offer no answers, I do the opposite, I denounce answers. Saying that I am doing something does not make it so. I declare that I do not know everything. Human beings, with all we have learned so far, are still in the dark ages compared to what there is to know in the universe. Your only trying to make me sound like you so that you can nit pick me about it, which is rather poetic irony if you think about it. One thing beyond all things is true, regardless of anything else, compassion is the important force in human society, it is why we have progressed as a society, and it is why we continue to grow, not some spiritual bull shit. That and along with just being genetically more capable than other animals. I am simple saying that it is better to say "I don't know" than it is to say "I've been taught" when they can not provide evidence of any kind that points to the answers that one might give. The world would be better off without religion for the reason that once we get rid of the foolish idea of the "afterlife" and some "wrath" for evil deeds, we can start studying the universe without ignorance, and we can benefit society without having to worry about "ethics" that are based off of some "benevolent" being rather than logic and compassion.

As much as you deny it, he is right. Your beliefs are based off of what you have been taught just like everybody else. How much of science have you actually witnessed for yourself and how much scientific evidence do you take on faith because someone with a degree has said it is the truth? What you don't seem to realize is, even scientific explanations of the world are based on personal interpretations of the evidence. You may say "I don't know" and feel self righteous because of that, but there are beliefs that you hold and they are based mostly on what you have been told whether you admit it or not. Because you have been told one thing and not another does not make you any better or worse than anybody else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

Not that again. You don't know the definition of the word "religion". Is not believing in Santa Claus a religion? No. Atheism is the same way.

It is a belief system. It is a world view. It is an assumption of the truth that is based largely on speculation. In these ways it is similar to religion. Science is put forth as the ultimate truth instead of a metaphysical entity; that is the only difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

I'm an atheist merely because I don't believe in a God.

This in no way effects my way of living. I don't try to attract followers.

The reason I am an atheist is simply because I believe what is rational and in front of me.

Religions generally require faith of some sort.
Atheism doesn't.It merely requires logical rational thinking.

Rational reasoning; is by no means a religion. It's just true, I'm afraid.

Atheism is similar to religion in that its followers believe they are closer to the truth than all others. Why is it that your beliefs are based in rational truth and mine are not? What research have you done to be so convinced that you are more knowledgable than I am about the inner workings of reality? I have studied physics, chemistry, biology, and philosophy and these things have lead me to a different conclusion than you. It is likely that I have followed a route that is more logical and based more on empirical evidence than you have and yet you say I am irrational because our beliefs are different. The fault that most find in religion is intolerance and the inability to identify with other people's beliefs. This is something that you are guilty of also.
12-05-2007, 04:54 AM
Moonbeam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

It is an assumption of the truth that is based largely on speculation. In these ways it is similar to religion.

No it's not. It's the denial that the liklihood of a bunch of made up stuff is true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Atheism is similar to religion in that its followers believe they are closer to the truth than all others. Why is it that your beliefs are based in rational truth and mine are not?

Because it's not just a bunch of made up stuff.

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