Thread: The Golden Compass. Further religious hypocrisy

Apparently this film is to atheism what Narnia is to christianity. It's written by an atheist and it "promotes" atheism, just like Narnia did christianity. Now there is a big controversy over it by the christians, many of them are boycotting the movie. As an atheist I saw Narnia and loved it. So why can't christians just chill the hell out and go see it for what it is, entertainment? They are complaining that it's indoctrinating children........ well I guess they would know all about that....

Originally Posted by Rakjavik

Apparently this film is to atheism what Narnia is to christianity. It's written by an atheist and it "promotes" atheism, just like Narnia did christianity. Now there is a big controversy over it by the christians, many of them are boycotting the movie. As an atheist I saw Narnia and loved it. So why can't christians just chill the hell out and go see it for what it is, entertainment? They are complaining that it's indoctrinating children........ well I guess they would know all about that....

This just goes to show how single-minded Christians can be. I am Atheist, yet i love the Narnia tales for the stories.

Besides, I don't think any Atheists boycotted Narnia, did they? More intolerantcy coming from such "Tolerant", and "peaceful" folk.

I'm very saddened by this development.

The Golden Compass is one of the best books I have ever read (and I've read a lot, even at my age), and it would be very sad to see a bastardized version - a scintillating, visually faithful reproduction which is just an intellectual shell of the original story.

The book contains tons of allusions to scientific theories of the time and is extremely thought-provoking, giving a whole new perspective on religion as a whole. I fear that the movie... will not.

The Narnia books were some of the first I ever read and I still love them, despite my raging athiesm. I don't see why people can't just leave religion out of it and take the movies for what they are: entertainment.

One should read the other books by CS Lewis besides the Narnia series. Lewis redefines Christianity in such a way that it puts the "religion" of it to shame and pulls forth the reality of it.
Lewis' works such as Mere Christianity, and the Great Divorce opened the door to what is really on the inside for me. The writings have more in common with Buddhist teachings rather than the ceremonial ritualistic jibberrish of the religios covering called Christianity that hides the meaning of Christs teachings.
After mulling over such writings, Buddhist teachings of Dzogchen, Hindu teachings of Advaita, Islamic teachings of the Sufi, One sees what Christ was teaching, and its not much like what the modern Christian churches teach and promote at all.

Originally Posted by Rakjavik

Apparently this film is to atheism what Narnia is to christianity. It's written by an atheist and it "promotes" atheism, just like Narnia did christianity. Now there is a big controversy over it by the christians, many of them are boycotting the movie. As an atheist I saw Narnia and loved it. So why can't christians just chill the hell out and go see it for what it is, entertainment? They are complaining that it's indoctrinating children........ well I guess they would know all about that....

I take it by your "apparently" you haven't read His Dark Materials, then? Or seen the new film adaptation of Northern Lights (or Golden Compass as it has been renamed)? It doesn't make much difference, but I recommend you do. Whatever you believe, they're great books, and I expect the film will live up to them.

Christians as a whole aren't that bothered, I would imagine. There will be those that boycott it, but then I expect there were aethiests who boycotted Narnia. It's a big generalisation to claim that all Christians need to chill out. They aren't all complaining at all. It's a small minority that's ruining the image for everyone, the same was with Harry Potter.

It's usually just a few fundementalists who haven't actually read/seen whatever they're attacking, and who create big generalisations like this.

Originally Posted by Siиdяed

They aren't all complaining at all. It's a small minority that's ruining the image for everyone, the same was with Harry Potter.

The problem is, though, that the producers and everyone involved are subject to these images. They're bound to 'dumb it down' a little bit, even if just to pacify imaginary opposition.

Reading back over your post, Rakjavik, I might also point out that Pullman's Dark Materials are an obvious attack on Christianity, while Narnia wasn't an attack on aetheism. So how you can compare the two I'm not sure.

Still, I loved the books, and hope I'll love the film. I hope the anti-Church message it isn't dumbed-down, Gnome, but I'm guessing it will be. It was integral to the plot.

Meh meh. That's all the serious posting I can muster for one day.

*begins daily spamming spree*

Originally Posted by Siиdяed

Reading back over your post, Rakjavik, I might also point out that Pullman's Dark Materials are an obvious attack on Christianity, while Narnia wasn't an attack on aetheism. So how you can compare the two I'm not sure.

I would definitely argue against that. Pullman's works are more of an attack on religion in general, more specifically monotheism, if you want. But I don't really see any features of Lyra's world's religion that are specific to Christianity.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

But I don't really see any features of Lyra's world's religion that are specific to Christianity.

Let's see.

-Angels exactly as in the bible

-The christian church plays a major role

-Direct reference to Satan

-Direct reference to the christian God

-The Kingdom of Heaven as in the Bible

-Philip Pullman himself has specified the attack on christianity himself in interview.



Now GTFO and take your FAIL with you.



Jus' kiddin I love you really.

Originally Posted by Siиdяed

Reading back over your post, Rakjavik, I might also point out that Pullman's Dark Materials are an obvious attack on Christianity, while Narnia wasn't an attack on aetheism. So how you can compare the two I'm not sure.

Still, I loved the books, and hope I'll love the film. I hope the anti-Church message it isn't dumbed-down, Gnome, but I'm guessing it will be. It was integral to the plot.

Meh meh. That's all the serious posting I can muster for one day.

*begins daily spamming spree*

A) Anything supporting organized religion is an attack on reason, and therefore an attack on atheism
B) I've really got read Pullman's books

Sorry, two people attacking me either can't remember the books, or haven't read them at all. Seismo relied on movie trailers. How far the film will show the anti-religion theme I don't know, though I'm guessing it will probably be downplayed (as Gnome says).

The religious side is largely directed towards the Christian Church, the evidence is obvious (thank-you Carou), but I'll accept it could refer to any religious faith.

CatScan read the books. And you make a good point.


Still, I'm standing by the fact that the majority of Christians aren't causing a fuss over the books/film. It's a few hardcore minorities making the whole faith look bad. The OP doesn't make that very clear at all.

Um...

Originally Posted by Rakjavik

, just like Narnia did christianity.

Narnia promoted Christianity? god im horrible with symbolism........but how so?
i know C.S Lewis converted to christianity, ive read a few of his books about religion

Originally Posted by Rakjavik

They are complaining that it's indoctrinating children........ well I guess they would know all about that....

people dont normally "chill out" when their beliefs are insulted. if you want them to "chill out" take a calmer approach.

Originally Posted by Matt5678

Narnia promoted Christianity? god im horrible with symbolism........but how so?
i know C.S Lewis converted to christianity, ive read a few of his books about religion



people dont normally "chill out" when their beliefs are insulted. if you want them to "chill out" take a calmer approach.

I understand taking the "chill out" apporoach. Honestly I am not taking a not calmn approach. It just seems wrong. The point is, that atheists have not taken a bad approach toward Narnia. Even though, it's basically the same thing. Narnia "screams" christianity, yet it was a beautiful piece of cinematic art! Yet, I have not seen on any forums evidence of people getting upset about it. It's only when things like The Golden Compass or Harry Potter come up. All of a sudden, that's all I read on forums. (IMDB most of the time) It seems to me, like religion is allowed to beat us down(asheist/agnostics) but we're not allowed to say anything about them. Honestly it seems to parallel with racism. Some people are allowed to "diss" other people, but others are not allowed to do so on the other side of the coin. Why are theist allowed to have a theatrical depiction of why their beliefs are true, but yet we cannot without being looked down upon and become controversial?

Narnia's Christian symbology is undeniable. The whole Aslan/Christ theme is obvious.

People are allowed to insult Christianity, Rakjavik. The amount of anti-Christian media is incredible, and very few Churches bother trying to fight back. Compared to the outrage critisism of Islam causes Christianity barely resists attack.

So no, Rakjavik, I think saying that Christianity "beats down" aethiests anywhere near the amount that aethiests attack Chrisitianity. Congrats for recognising that very few Chrisitians actually have taken offense at the Dark Materials/Harry Potter, though. It's a generalisation the faith could do without.

So why can't christians just chill the hell out and go see it for what it is, entertainment?

For the same reason certain Christians dislike Harry Potter.

Some people are dumb.


It seems to me, like religion is allowed to beat us down(asheist/agnostics) but we're not allowed to say anything about them.

Uh, what? Heck man, when was the last time you seriously looked? Christianity, as the majority religion in America, gets shit every day.

The Narnia example is really an outlier.

Originally Posted by Silvanus350

So why can't christians just chill the hell out and go see it for what it is, entertainment?

For the same reason certain Christians dislike Harry Potter.

Some people are dumb.


It seems to me, like religion is allowed to beat us down(asheist/agnostics) but we're not allowed to say anything about them.

Uh, what? Heck man, when was the last time you seriously looked? Christianity, as the majority religion in America, gets shit every day.

The Narnia example is really an outlier.

Christianity gets shit? You cannot go into politics unless you're religious. A recent poll that was done showed America was least comfortable with an atheist in office. That was over gays,blacks and women. I would say that christian's don't get slammed nearly as much. Just my opinion

Originally Posted by Rakjavik

Christianity gets shit? You cannot go into politics unless you're religious. A recent poll that was done showed America was least comfortable with an atheist in office. That was over gays,blacks and women. I would say that christian's don't get slammed nearly as much. Just my opinion

No offense, but i'd say that 70% of corporate company owners & CEOs are Atheist, agnostic, or just very "weak christians".

And it doesn't matter what they prefer, it matters what gives them their paycheck.

Sidenote:

The average Agnostic/Atheist scored roughly 30% higher then the average christian on SAT and ACTs.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

No offense, but i'd say that 70% of corporate company owners & CEOs are Atheist, agnostic, or just very "weak christians".

And it doesn't matter what they prefer, it matters what gives them their paycheck.

Sidenote:

The average Agnostic/Atheist scored roughly 30% higher then the average christian on SAT and ACTs.

Any idea where I can get a link for this study? I would love to show it to a few people.

I haven't heard that one before, and I'd have to point out that you can't use percentages like that on binomially distributed data, but I do know that Christians have a higher divorce rate than atheists in the US.

So yea, the more Controversial Parts that attack religion will most likely be either cut or adapted.

It's weird though... any Christian who suddenly starts ranting about His Dark Materials now is basically saying, 'I'm too fucking stupid to read books, but now it's been converted to a format I can understand I hate it'.

Movies are made for entertainment purposes, not rediculas religious beliefs, people who think that way need to punch themselves in the face. They don't make movies to go against religion, or for religion unless it's a religious movie.
I'm neither religious (thank god), or athiest (thank god again) and i'll go watch the movie for what it's made for...entertainment value.

Lucid, films can have symbolism, or deeper meanings or be giant allegories for other messages. It depends how we interpret them. A shorter version would be a poem. Trees by Philip Larkin could be considered to be a simple poem about trees, or it could be about humanity's underlying fear of death (something Larkin struggled with). You see? Films are the same, the needn't be quite as simple as they appear. It's nice to enjoy a film for entertainment values, but every so often I like to see a film that demands a little thought as to underlying meaning.

Alright Xaq, I can see your point. This is how I should have responded:

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Well, since the movie isn't out yet; I haven't seen it, but I can't imagine how Armored talking bears battling each other could have much to do with religion one way or the other.

Well, Xaq, without having seen the film yet either, I can't really comment. But having read the book on which it is based on (Northern Lights, or Golden Compass in the US) which is part of the his Dark Materials series, I can give you a reasonably reliable answer (provided they don't make massive changes to the original, which I honestly doubt they will).
The armoured bears are just part of the world in which Lyra exists in. It is a fantasy novel (more so in the first book than the others, though we see the connections later), though (to quote Wikipedia):

As the trilogy progresses, it acquires allegorical layers of meaning, introducing a broad range of ideas from fields such as physics (quantum physics), philosophy (metaphysics, philosophy of religion and, arguably, a degree of hylopathism), and theology (biblical symbolism).

I'm sorry you haven't read the books yet, and would seriously recommend them, and hope you will enjoy the film as much as I do, you sweet little man.


...God, I'm a dick.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Movies are made for entertainment purposes, not rediculas religious beliefs, people who think that way need to punch themselves in the face. They don't make movies to go against religion, or for religion unless it's a religious movie.
I'm neither religious (thank god), or athiest (thank god again) and i'll go watch the movie for what it's made for...entertainment value.

Think about this. Think.


You're condemning movies which have a message in favour of sheer entertainment. If you had your way I assume we'd be stuck with Oscars being awarded to "Home Alone 19" at the moment; rather than something absolutely brilliant such as "The Lives of Others", which carries a strong message, with little in the way of face on entertainment in the way of explosions.

Children are too exposed to christianity as it is. In some schools it is compulsory to be of Christian faith and in many to sing hymns. All this is doing is manipulating children to be christians. All an atheist film is doing is suggesting new ideas and if people are saying it is "manipulative" they need to take one step back and look at what they are doing.

Some schools set themselves up as Christian schools, and a few make it a requirement to be Christian to join. This means that they can preach in assemblies, sing hymns, whatever, in the school without offending pupils who are of different faiths. This is hardly a bad thing. Islam has its own schools, too. It doesn't force you to be a Christian to join, it simply creates an enviroment where the history of Christianity can be taught, where church is a more integral part, etc. Many people think that children of today are losing moral values, church schools are often seen as a good response to this.
If you want to set up a school you ought to be allowed to choose who you teach, surely?

So no, not really a bad thing at all.

Children born to Christian parents will often be influenced by that in their upbringing, but once you reach a certain age you ought to be able to make your own choices. Some can't, obviously, a yes, these are 'manipulated', but the majority seem perfectly able to decide on their own.
If you're a Christian, teaching your children about your faith is felt to be almost an obligation in many cases. You want them to gain from religion what you have (support from your Church, religious experiences, a meaning to life, whatever people think they get from faith).

To be honest aetheists look far cooler than religious folk nowadays anyway. It's more appealing, it's logic and science and reason, it's a rebellion against the old orders...why am I a Christian again?