The Truth About Religion

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11-05-2007, 07:00 PM
awoke

The Truth About Religion

Just watched this. pretty damn interesting.
3 parts, but its not too long....

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjGkRFFBd0A

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_E0vfP79yE

Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyXIeB1qI6w

thoughts?
11-05-2007, 07:46 PM
Matt5678

its very interesting indeed. its actually, among other things, what made me agnostic.
11-05-2007, 08:06 PM
Sornaensis

Quote:

Originally Posted by awoke

Just watched this. pretty damn interesting.
3 parts, but its not too long....

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjGkRFFBd0A

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_E0vfP79yE

Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyXIeB1qI6w

thoughts?

Christianity just got OWNED.
11-05-2007, 08:37 PM
Matt5678

maybe all religions are trying to describe the same god? I mean gods from all over the world share alot of attributes.... just a philosophical thought.

but i dont think this is too new. A lot of people now know that a lot of Christmas and Easter traditions are based on old pagan ideas. Its interesting to read about though
11-05-2007, 08:50 PM
three and four

Excellent, thanks.
11-05-2007, 09:42 PM
Sornaensis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt5678

maybe all religions are trying to describe the same god? I mean gods from all over the world share alot of attributes.... just a philosophical thought.

You seem to forget that humans around the world share similar traits, thus disply similar behavior, thus come to similar conclusions, etc...
11-05-2007, 10:34 PM
awoke

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt5678

maybe all religions are trying to describe the same god?

I've thought this for a while. that all religions are putting a different face on the same God. the face is molded from the culture and ideals held in that region.
11-05-2007, 11:05 PM
Matt5678

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

You seem to forget that humans around the world share similar traits, thus disply similar behavior, thus come to similar conclusions, etc...

yes, i agree. however, i think ones behavior is based on the culture they were raised in. Every culture has some idea of god(s). they have a different face based on the culture in which they are popular in but i think under the skin most of them are structured the same way. things people identify with divinity. virginity seems to be involved someway in a lot of them. since a virgin is seen as "pure" and "un-tainted" in a lot of cultures. people think something as glorious as God(s) must be pure also . its fascinating from a psychological stand-point. I think some ideas of the nature of god(s) are hardwired into the human mind. Take.....NDEs.....for example. You probably see them as just hallucinations and for the sake of the post i wont go into whether or not they are. but in 95% of the cases of this phenomena. god is interpreted in the same or similar ways. So even though our cultures are different there seems to be a common base on which we build the ideas of the gods we believe in. so where do these base ideas come from?...... perhapes evolution has hardwired them. but we all have our own explanations :)
11-06-2007, 12:33 AM
Sornaensis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt5678

yes, i agree. however, i think ones behavior is based on the culture they were raised in. Every culture has some idea of god(s). they have a different face based on the culture in which they are popular in but i think under the skin most of them are structured the same way. things people identify with divinity. virginity seems to be involved someway in a lot of them. since a virgin is seen as "pure" and "un-tainted" in a lot of cultures. people think something as glorious as God(s) must be pure also . its fascinating from a psychological stand-point. I think some ideas of the nature of god(s) are hardwired into the human mind. Take.....NDEs.....for example. You probably see them as just hallucinations and for the sake of the post i wont go into whether or not they are. but in 95% of the cases of this phenomena. god is interpreted in the same or similar ways. So even though our cultures are different there seems to be a common base on which we build the ideas of the gods we believe in. so where do these base ideas come from?...... perhapes evolution has hardwired them. but we all have our own explanations :)

As i said before: Our genetic makeup is extremely close.

Plus, only people who have come across religion have had documented NDE's (In the sense of nde that means you were clinically dead (Heart stopped, but Synapses not necessarily)).

Also: Couldn't it just be that since we have a more powerful brain than all animals (Discovered so far (and tested alongside human capacity)) that we would naturally search for a reason for everything? A god would seem like a pretty good reason.

Oh, and if all religions mask the same god, then what about Polytheism? And why does there have to be only ONE god? Hmmmm?

edit: **A virgin refers to a human female that has not come of age.

std::
11-06-2007, 04:15 AM
Matt5678

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Also: Couldn't it just be that since we have a more powerful brain than all animals (Discovered so far (and tested alongside human capacity)) that we would naturally search for a reason for everything? A god would seem like a pretty good reason.

that could be entirely possible. we are very curious creatures :)
it could all just come with brain power. although i dont like to think its THAT simple. but before we could prove that we would have to know more about the human brain. which still remains a bit of a mystery. but a very interesting one at that
11-06-2007, 04:31 AM
thegnome54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt5678

that could be entirely possible. we are very curious creatures :)
it could all just come with brain power. although i dont like to think its THAT simple. but before we could prove that we would have to know more about the human brain. which still remains a bit of a mystery. but a very interesting one at that

I think the "God Delusion" stems from basic human fears - it allays them all quite neatly:

The Fear of Mortality/Death - some manner of afterlife the the God controls.

The Fear of Not Being Loved - most Gods are 'all-loving'.

The Fear of Cosmic Insignificance - in most religions, humans are the God's
'main' creation, and the animals that the God most concerns itself with.

The Fear of Injustice (sometimes more of a hate) - most religions include a 'good fate' and a 'bad fate' for the afterlife (like heaven and hell), which is decided by the God - this means that people who have wronged you and never get their 'due' during mortal life will surely be punished, and you yourself will surely be rewarded despite your lack of recognition in mortal life.

The Fear of Purposelessness - now you can devote your life to something 'bigger than you'.

The Fear of the Unknown - this seems to me to be the most basic reason people buy into religions in the first place. Some sort of authority figure tells you what to believe and tells you that it is absolutely true. This sort of straightforward answer to life's most complex questions is quite appealing to many minds which are afraid to think, afraid to be uncertain.

I'm sure it satisfies many other human needs, but these are just a few I could think of off the top of my head. It's just a very convenient construct, both for the leaders of the group (which can use it to instill morals and a sense of authority) and to the subordinates (which feel like they have a purpose and have their basic fears allayed).
11-06-2007, 05:56 AM
Matt5678

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegnome54

I think the "God Delusion" stems from basic human fears - it allays them all quite neatly:

The Fear of Mortality/Death - some manner of afterlife the the God controls.

The Fear of Not Being Loved - most Gods are 'all-loving'.

The Fear of Cosmic Insignificance - in most religions, humans are the God's
'main' creation, and the animals that the God most concerns itself with.

The Fear of Injustice (sometimes more of a hate) - most religions include a 'good fate' and a 'bad fate' for the afterlife (like heaven and hell), which is decided by the God - this means that people who have wronged you and never get their 'due' during mortal life will surely be punished, and you yourself will surely be rewarded despite your lack of recognition in mortal life.

The Fear of Purposelessness - now you can devote your life to something 'bigger than you'.

The Fear of the Unknown - this seems to me to be the most basic reason people buy into religions in the first place. Some sort of authority figure tells you what to believe and tells you that it is absolutely true. This sort of straightforward answer to life's most complex questions is quite appealing to many minds which are afraid to think, afraid to be uncertain.

I'm sure it satisfies many other human needs, but these are just a few I could think of off the top of my head. It's just a very convenient construct, both for the leaders of the group (which can use it to instill morals and a sense of authority) and to the subordinates (which feel like they have a purpose and have their basic fears allayed).

That’s certainly everything im afraid of. although the unknown excites me in most cases
11-06-2007, 06:35 PM
Sornaensis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt5678

That’s certainly everything im afraid of. although the unknown excites me in most cases

I believe Mr. Gnome bashed the nail into the wood again :).

std::
11-07-2007, 04:28 AM
jacobo

that last bit seems a bit harsh...

the entire time they talk about how this story has been around forever and has been accepted as a way of life... then bam nothing about it is positive. it's all a lie and every believer since the begining has been tricked into something evil.

i'm agnostic. raised as such... and still that last bit makes my stomach knot. i've know people who've chosen a religion in order to help their kids along with moral structure... or to simply help themselves.

i love the information in the first two... but that last one lays such a harsh judgement on believers it just stopped me from passing it on.
12-04-2007, 05:21 PM
Riot Maker

As i am watching this religion part of "Zeitgeist" i can't help thinking to my self that the basic foundation for there claim is WRONG. Correct me if im worng but if the whole basis of this movie is trying point out that jesus like other gods are all astorlogical? To bad jesus wasn't born on Dec,25th:(. That is a date set aside by the christian higher acrhcey to celebrate his birth. Did you guys also know that he didn't die on dec 22nd and didn't resurect on dec 25th like the said about the constellation crox either? Theres alot of holes that this ducumentry needs to fill for me. But i did rather enjoy the other 2 parts. The man behind the curtain is great.
12-04-2007, 10:40 PM
tkdyo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Oh, and if all religions mask the same god, then what about Polytheism? And why does there have to be only ONE god? Hmmmm?

polytheism seems to be much more common than monotheism, outside of the big three religions. With that said, The one god always has angles, and arch angles, a whole hierarchy of other supernatural beings who sit just under him.

Seems pretty similar to all of the polytheistic religions to me, in that although they are all referred to as "gods" there is always a leader, and some sort of hierarchy...basically the same structure, just in monotheism only one is called a god. Even the different arch angles have different functions, "such as Michael, the angle of wrath". There are even half angles in the Bible, although they were all supposedly destroyed in the flood....:boogie:
12-05-2007, 06:06 AM
Shamrox

Thats a very good video thank you
12-07-2007, 01:34 AM
mark

This is a very very interesting, I really like this because its not meant to offend but rather educate which im hoping means the the "believer" will listen rather then run for the videos.
12-08-2007, 05:48 AM
Moonbeam

I knew Chritianity got a lot of its ideas from pagan religions, but I didn't realize it was completely a re-telling of old myths.
12-08-2007, 03:43 PM
Carôusoul

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMAC

As i am watching this religion part of "Zeitgeist" i can't help thinking to my self that the basic foundation for there claim is WRONG. Correct me if im worng but if the whole basis of this movie is trying point out that jesus like other gods are all astorlogical? To bad jesus wasn't born on Dec,25th:(. That is a date set aside by the christian higher acrhcey to celebrate his birth. Did you guys also know that he didn't die on dec 22nd and didn't resurect on dec 25th like the said about the constellation crox either? Theres alot of holes that this ducumentry needs to fill for me. But i did rather enjoy the other 2 parts. The man behind the curtain is great.

its isn't about the real guy jesus.

its about the mythological figure people built from that guy. this mythology known as christianity includes the 25th because of its astrological significance. Zeitgeist is explaining entirely why this is. It has nothing to do with the real jesus, the prophet and holy man. but the fictional character created by the church..
12-08-2007, 10:40 PM
Jeff777

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMAC

As i am watching this religion part of "Zeitgeist" i can't help thinking to my self that the basic foundation for there claim is WRONG. Correct me if im worng but if the whole basis of this movie is trying point out that jesus like other gods are all astorlogical? To bad jesus wasn't born on Dec,25th:(. That is a date set aside by the christian higher acrhcey to celebrate his birth. Did you guys also know that he didn't die on dec 22nd and didn't resurect on dec 25th like the said about the constellation crox either? Theres alot of holes that this ducumentry needs to fill for me. But i did rather enjoy the other 2 parts. The man behind the curtain is great.

There's no credible historical evidence on the birth of Jesus whatsoever. So I'm not sure where you got the...

Quote:

Did you guys also know that he didn't die on dec 22nd and didn't resurect on dec 25th like the said about the constellation crox either?

...from.

Christ wasn't even a last name, merely a title.