Thread: *for christians only* It's time to regroup guys those atheists are killing us.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I'd say the word most could replace both instances of "a lot of" in that sentence.

Yeah, no kidding.

I was trying not to generalize. If I said most Christians are closed minded, I would have been attacked and told I am going to hell.

Closed-mindedness usually implies that someone doesn't believe something. So I don't think you'd get attacked, I just think that's kind of backwards.

I almost think that I am the ONLY open-minded christian here...

Originally Posted by Rainman

I also think you missed the part where I said I am a Christian, not athiest. Try reading next time. I worded that underlined sentence oddly. I meant to say that No one is right, but the believers are not wrong, as the non believers cannot prove the non-existence of a god. It's hypocritical for skeptics to demand evidence of something and then not be able to come up with any themselves when we say prove that this DOESN'T exist. Haha. I laugh at that.

<Edit>By the way, hypocrisy doesn't mean to criticize both sides like I did, and was RIGHT to do so, as both sides have flaws. Hypocrisy is to profess one thing and demonstrate or believe the opposite yourself, get a fucking dictionary before you try to use my wording against me.</edit>

Sorry it has hard to get the fact you were a Christian when I first read it... And you did say one thing and then say the opposite (more of a contradiction, i was just rewording a sentence you wrote) You said no one is wrong then right after you say something is bull, again more of a contradiction, but on the internet contradictions are basically hypocrisies because you can't act on the internet.

HEY GUYZ!!!

I JUZ hat a STROKE, N I B-CAME a retard, and now I like, turned to CRISTyANETTY!!! 111 ;D It lieke all makes like wayy muhc sense like all ur good agrumettns adn suchts!!! =D

GO GAWD!!!11123123

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It's true.

Originally Posted by Neruo

HEY GUYZ!!!

I JUZ hat a STROKE, N I B-CAME a retard, and now I like, turned to CRISTyANETTY!!! 111 ;D It lieke all makes like wayy muhc sense like all ur good agrumettns adn suchts!!! =D

GO GAWD!!!11123123

-

It's true.

Ezza Heista. I ahm fram Doichelahnd. I lahve STRONG beir ahnd shruubs. I dant beleeve een Gahd bequase ve fram Hollund are maich mohr eentelligunt than de AmerIcans.

May Holland not dissapear into the ocean within 10 years!!!

Neruo circa 2 weeks ago

on that note...me and my abused girlfriend.

Half/Dreaming circa Yesterday
oh, we have fun

Originally Posted by Neruo

HEY GUYZ!!!

I JUZ hat a STROKE, N I B-CAME a retard, and now I like, turned to CRISTyANETTY!!! 111 ;D It lieke all makes like wayy muhc sense like all ur good agrumettns adn suchts!!! =D

GO GAWD!!!11123123

-

It's true.

Well I see there's no more point (if there ever was one) in trying to participate in a discussion here. Too many fucking ignorant morons spamming a bunch of weak bullshit because they can't come up with any sort of real argument. Only idiotic, unbacked biased insults and overblown opinions. Therefore I withdraw from this thread which was started by no doubt a kid, and as you can see is responded too mostly by kids with nothing real to say. What a waste of time and energy.

And lucid boy, there are over 10 thousand members on this forum. I doubt you're the only "open minded" Christian on here.

NEruo, you sound like your 2.

Originally Posted by Rainman

Closed-mindedness usually implies that someone doesn't believe something

Its not simply not believing in something, its refusing to even consider, or being completely unreceptive to new ideas that dont fit into their belief system. To be fair to most athiests they look at the observable evidence and come to a conclusion, the same can't really be said of theists however.

Ill leave you with a quote and a passage from here:
http://sifter.org/~simon/journal/20010722.html

Atheists do look for answers to existence itself. They just don't make them up.--Teller

....
an Atheist is, and has been through most of history, simply someone who does not believe in any gods, simply because observations neither necessitate nor even warrant them -- as opposed to theists who adopt beliefs which extend beyond that which is warranted by observation alone (i.e., they have "faith", which is simply another term for trusting what other people tell you).

Let me try to defend the Theists by saying that your statement is only part truth. Some christians will concede to Atheists on a few points. SOME, not all but Some. Not even a majority but a couple-few.

Its not really about conceding on certain issues. Its more about being able to properly evaluate your experiences. If you feel you have to defend a faith you're more likely to attribute things to faith rather than have a balanced opinion on what you're seeing.
For example,
"I cant understand how the universe could have came into existence so there must be a god" vs "I cant understand how the universe could have came into existence we should strive to research more in that area".
Or
"The initial cause of cell differentiation is puzzling and therefore is evidence of a god" vs "The initial cause of cell differentiation is puzzling and therefore we should strive to research in that area"

Its all good having a hypothesis on things, its just an issue when that hypothesis suddenly becomes truth to that person.

Do you believe there's a chance you might be wrong? that christianity could be wrong?

yes, I do. I don't care what, by difinition that makes me. Every once in a while,'bout once a day, I have serious doubts about my faith. I'm trying to read the bible more/reasearch to make that doubt go away. That is part of the reason I am at this forum. Also, on a side note, contributing things you don't understand to god, just because you don't understand them, is ignorance.

Every once in a while,'bout once a day, I have serious doubts about my faith. I'm trying to read the bible more/reasearch to make that doubt go away.

Why do you want these doubts to go away? your instincts are telling you something may be wrong, why do you wish to supress that? do you investigate why you're having these doubts to find out if they have any validity?

Also, on a side note, contributing things you don't understand to god, just because you don't understand them, is ignorance.

May i ask what tipped the scales in favour of christianity for you? How did you settle on christianity as being the likely truth?

Originally Posted by RooJ

Why do you want these doubts to go away? your instincts are telling you something may be wrong, why do you wish to supress that? do you investigate why you're having these doubts to find out if they have any validity?

I think this is an extremely important question. It seems to me that the best way to rid yourself of doubt is to fully examine the point which is causing the doubt. If you suddenly doubted your home and family were safe, wouldn't you want to investigate, and make sure the doubt wasn't due to a disturbing truth?

Here's something crazy. You exist. Once you've really understood how infinitely impossible that is, you will submit to the God who created you. You'll also realize how imperfect you actually are and that no matter how good you paint yourself up to be, you still fail on a number of levels. You'll then know that there is nothing on earth you could possibly do that would make you worthy of being in the presence of an absolutely perfect being. Do you think you deserve to be with a perfect being? The majority of us are egotistical and self-serving (you may object to that, but you are lying to yourself). Surely, selfish beings like us don't deserve the infinite love that God offers. We deserve to remain in this state of suffering we've created on earth. We are scum, and suffering is our fate.

Since there is nothing we can do to deserve perfect love, God has done something for us. Jesus Christ was begotten and later crucified so that by his perfect blood we could be saved. Jesus was begotten, not made, by God (the difference being that when something is begotten, it shares its nature with the one who begets, such as a human begetting another human; when something is made, its nature is not the same as the maker, such as a human being making a car). God made humans, meaning our nature is not the same as God's. Jesus was begotten, and by accepting Him as Christ, His perfect spirit dwells within you. Thus, you are no longer a creation unlike the God who created you, but you have literally become a son of God, begotten just like Jesus. God sees the perfect blood of Jesus in you and you are now capable of spending an eternity with this perfect being.

There is life after physical death. If I can lose my life, it follows that I and life are two separate things. If I and life are separate, then that means I am separate from all beings and all experience whatsoever. But if I am separate from everything that defines me, what then is left? How could I be separate from my very being, the experiencing entity interacting with other beings? It is impossible. I don't have a life to lose. I am life. And how can I lose something that I am? It is impossible. **paraphrased from A New Earth, by Eckhart Tolle

Good grief, ninja, that was deep...

If the fact that we exist blows your mind, it just displays ignorance (I don't mean that as an insult). We really don't know anything about the universe. We can only observe.

You are an eating, pooping, reproducing machine with a computer. Life is so much more basic than people portray it.

No, my friends, God doesnt not exist. Early man was only smart enough to ask questions, but not smart enough to have answers. God fills in the blanks. It is so obvious. We already know that man creates religions with no proof. What makes Christianity any different?

Originally Posted by Snowy Egypt

Good grief, ninja, that was deep...

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

If the fact that we exist blows your mind, it just displays ignorance (I don't mean that as an insult). We really don't know anything about the universe. We can only observe.

You are an eating, pooping, reproducing machine with a computer. Life is so much more basic than people portray it.

You are selling life short. It's absolutely shocking that people pass life off as some run-of-the-mill occurrence. It's not. We are conscious beings, experiencing and observing the cosmos. There is some unifying entity that ties the present 'me' with the 'me' as a baby, the 'me' as a teenager, etc. This is the spirit, timeless and unconditioned. What would be the unifying factor if there was no spirit? The brain is simply a sporadic series of cause-and-effect. If that is all that I am, I may as well assume there is no 'me' at all. Perhaps the Buddhists are right.

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

NEruo, you sound like your 2.

Not as 2 as you sound.

By the way, all this talk about theists being unintelligent and illogical is ridiculous. There are plenty of intelligent individuals who do believe in God. Let's cut out the ad hominems, please?

Originally Posted by ninja pirate

By the way, all this talk about theists being unintelligent and illogical is ridiculous. There are plenty of intelligent individuals who do believe in God. Let's cut out the ad hominems, please?

Case in point, a book called "Finding Darwin's God" by Kenneth R. Miller. This is an unbelievably insightful book for theists and atheists alike (as well as agnostics). Let’s just say that theism and evolution do not actually contradict each other, only our misconceptions of theology and misconceptions of evolution do. If you want to know how that’s even possible, read the book. It will probably change the way you see the theory of evolution and theology, regardless of if you are a theist or a believer in evolution.

Originally Posted by ninja pirate

We deserve to remain in this state of suffering we've created on earth. We are scum, and suffering is our fate.

I can only hope that other religious people on this board dont have such an unhealthy outlook as yourself.

As for the rest of your point im afraid it carries little weight in this discussion. Your argument is a non sequitur, your inability to comprehend how the universe could exist without a creator doesn't actually lead to the conclusion that there must be a god, even if you would like it to. Its a logical fallacy to assume that because you personally find the universe too amazing to exist without a designer, a designer must exist.

Originally Posted by argument from personal incredulity

The argument from personal incredulity, also known as argument from personal belief or argument from personal conviction, refers to an assertion that because one personally finds a premise unlikely or unbelievable, the premise can be assumed not to be true, or alternately that another preferred but unproved premise is true instead.

When you've been told what to think for long enough you become incapable of actually logically analysing what you believe yourself and coming to a conclusion through that. [/ad hominem]

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

On a side note: me---><-----god.

HAHAHA. Only now I see that I have stumbled upon the most silly use of emoticons ever.

Strange that Atheists, who are wrong, exist throughout ALL of history, while Christians, who are Totally Right, exist only in areas where it has spread after it's invention.