Question: Religion and Dreaming

[indescribable]

I have a question. This question is loosley aimed at anyone who's religion teaches that violence is wrong, etc. Would it wrong to be purposely violent in dreams when you KNOW that it is just a dream? And further more, is it wrong to enjoy the violence? For example, would God be mad if I consciously killed someone in a dream? In the Christian community, would it still be considered a sin since you are THINKING 'bad thoughts'? Any replies would be much appreciated.

[joey11223]

i don't need to be religious for this one. I would say most definitely yes. I mean "thou shalt not kill" is a commandment or coveting your neighbors wife. Just because your doing them in dreams, shouldn't excuse you from God, it's a lucid, so your making a conscious decision to act out sin, it may not be "really happening" but your still sinning and so enjoying sinning just proves you, like every human being, follow your instincts and do find some "sins" enjoyable.

[Xaqaria]

i don't need to be religious for this one. I would say most definitely yes. I mean "thou shalt not kill" is a commandment or coveting your neighbors wife. Just because your doing them in dreams, shouldn't excuse you from God, it's a lucid, so your making a conscious decision to act out sin, it may not be "really happening" but your still sinning and so enjoying sinning just proves you, like every human being, follow your instincts and do find some "sins" enjoyable. This is why the majority of video games are the devil's work and Harry Potter fans are going to hell.

[the_gloaming]

Whatever you feel is right. If killing people in dreams doesn't sit well with you, don't do it. This kind of decision is a personal one.

[joey11223]

This is why the majority of video games are the devil's work and Harry Potter fans are going to hell. Technically yes with video games, but Harry Potter, that isn't fair, it's a book about witchcraft, it doesn't teach you it, its only fiction. I'm not religious so i don't mind, but if you are truly religious, i would suggest thinking before you play shooter games, because you are filling your lust for violence, maybe you don't play for killing, but you are still. In a sense, it's a tough one.

[Amethyst Star]

If you are lucid, then you are making conscious choices, and you will be held responsible for those choices. If you are in a regular dream, it's different because you are not making a choice to dream about certain things. I do believe, though, that non-lucid dreams can be indicators of things that are going on in our waking lives that we may not be fully aware of.

[naikou]

I think there was already a topic (or two) like this, but I can't seem to find it. There were some interesting points made there... Anyway, I'm not religious at all, so I can't really argue from that point of view. Personally I don't spend my dreams as a sadistic madwoman, but I'd never tell anyone what they can or can't do in a dream. Doing that seems more wrong to me than anything you could do in a dream. Technically yes with video games, but Harry Potter, that isn't fair, it's a book about witchcraft, it doesn't teach you it, its only fiction. ...Nah, video games don't really teach you anything, either. Pushing a button that makes a character on screen do a back flip does not teach you how to do a back flip. Pushing a button that makes a character on screen kill someone does not teach you how to kill someone. In fact, most of the skills you learn from video games end up being completely useless in real life. :p

[Seeker]

Amethyst Star has hit the nail on the head. You have freedom of choice at that point. Anything you choose to do that is prohibited by your religion is wrong in a lucid dream.

[27]

It's a really tough question, but look at it like this; if you kill a DC, has anyone really been hurt? Is it the same as murder? Would God look at it as being the same? What about dream sex? Would it make a difference it you 'married' the DC? I really can't see how someone can think that the same rules apply in a dream and in WL.

[Amethyst Star]

"The problem is choice." - The Matrix In my book, if you've chosen to do something, whether it be in a dream or in real life, it's on the same level as actually doing it. Even if "nobody knows", there will still be consequences.

[joey11223]

...Nah, video games don't really teach you anything, either. Pushing a button that makes a character on screen do a back flip does not teach you how to do a back flip. Pushing a button that makes a character on screen kill someone does not teach you how to kill someone. In fact, most of the skills you learn from video games end up being completely useless in real life. :p o sorry i phrased it wrong. I meant that harry potter doesn't teach you witchcraft, but i didn't mean that games teach you things. Although i watch this thing were offices workers were told to play fast paced games for like an hour a day or something and it improved their hand eye coordination.

[Replicon]

It's a conscious decision, but at the same time, it's a sandbox. For example, some have very religious-sounding opinions on proper formatting when editing a Wiki. But the "WikiSandbox" node, nobody complains about, do they? That's how I see it, anyway. Of course, this is coming from someone who feels his own secret thoughts are ACTUALLY private (i.e. no worries about voyeuristic higher beings judging me for my thoughts). I also think it's ok to covet your neighbour's wife, so long as you do so in the comfort of your own fantasies. Same reasoning.

[Sornaensis]

I have a question. This question is loosley aimed at anyone who's religion teaches that violence is wrong, etc. Would it wrong to be purposely violent in dreams when you KNOW that it is just a dream? And further more, is it wrong to enjoy the violence? For example, would God be mad if I consciously killed someone in a dream? In the Christian community, would it still be considered a sin since you are THINKING 'bad thoughts'? Any replies would be much appreciated. The dreamscape is a place for people to act those things out so as to avoid doing them in real life e.g. Smoking, drugs, killing. Which would you rather have in the world, violence in waking life, or violence in dreams?

[indescribable]

Thank you for all the great replies, and different views. I don't personally enjoy violence, and so far I don't think I've had a lucid dream where I am consciously doing something wrong, but it was a question that I was very curious about. I have to admit though, that I HAVE had several dreams where I thought about doing something wrong. As one of the lesser examples, I had one dream where this girl was really badmouthing my mom and I soo wanted to get her back. I guess I forgot that with my dream powers I could have just sent her on a rocket to the other side of the moon. So I guess if I wanted to stop a villain in my dream, I would have to just magically put them in jail or something? No violence whatsoever? I know that a lot of people use dreams to let off steam that would have otherwise may have harmed someone in real life. Thanks once again!

[naikou]

In my book, if you've chosen to do something, whether it be in a dream or in real life, it's on the same level as actually doing it. Even if "nobody knows", there will still be consequences. Well... yeah... but, it doesn't really matter if someone knows or not. I mean, if someone told me they had murdered me in a lucid dream, I wouldn't care at all. In fact, I'd probably just laugh and say, "Hahah! You only thought you killed me! I escaped at the last second!" You see? It's not even close to the same. Plus, if it's a dream, you can fix any of your mistakes, unlike real life. Time travel, resurrection, mind control... whatever. If you killed someone and feel bad about it, raise them from the dead, give them a cookie, and tell them to have a great day.

[Amethyst Star]

Well... yeah... but, it doesn't really matter if someone knows or not. I mean, if someone told me they had murdered me in a lucid dream, I wouldn't care at all. In fact, I'd probably just laugh and say, "Hahah! You only thought you killed me! I escaped at the last second!" You see? It's not even close to the same. Plus, if it's a dream, you can fix any of your mistakes, unlike real life. Time travel, resurrection, mind control... whatever. If you killed someone and feel bad about it, raise them from the dead, give them a cookie, and tell them to have a great day. I know where you're coming from, but that doesn't remove the fact that a lucid dreamer makes a choice. If someone says they murdered me in an LD, something tells me that there's something wrong with them. It's the fact that they intended to kill me. Now, if we were having a playful duel in an LD and I ended up dead (but came back later), that would be something else. Murder implies hostility and/or hatred. You say that you can fix mistakes in dreams. Sure, you can bring someone back to life that you killed in a dream, but that doesn't erase the fact that you killed them in the first place.

[naikou]

Ah, okay I think I understand what you're saying now. I thought you meant that the consequences for doing something in a dream should be the same as doing them in reality, which is clearly illogical. But yeah, I can understand that even pretending to kill someone (or otherwise commit "sin") would make a lot of people feel guilty.