Thread: Intelligent Design

Originally Posted by wendylove

The big bang created the universe this is caused by a singularity made out of nothing or that the universe has always been and their was a big bang with no singularity i.e. look up on hawkings. See science has anwser why we are here.

As I see it we can explain why we are here without god.[/b]

As I understand it, these are simply scientific speculations. But even if some of these speculations were proven, science would still not be able to look past the beginning of existence and say definitively how we got here. It can speculate endlessly, but it cannot say for sure because it cannot observe it.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Bit off topic here but it is suspected that it does exist. I think it's called string theory or something.[/b]

Yes, string theory speculates that there may be as many as ten dimensions of space, but those extra dimensions would be folded up and hidden at every point in the normal three dimensional space. However, my point was that a four-dimensional cube does not exist in that we have never been able to see it, touch it, or observe it. Therefore, it is a creation that comes only from our imaginations, and not from experience.

Humans created God. Not according to any religons, but humans thought up the concept of god. Thus, God is limited by the fact that we have imagined him. We did not imagine him you say... how so? We wrote books on him. We passed down stories.[/b]

Humans created God in the same sense that humans created their explanations of the physical universe. Strictly speaking, they are both products of human imagination and knowledge being passed down and built upon over the ages. That does not mean that the things being described don’t exist, or that they are limited by our imaginations. They have independent existence and only our explanations are limited.

Of course, if one is a Christian, then one believes that it is not only our imaginations that created our conception of God, but also God personally intervening in history to reveal himself to us in the person of Jesus Christ.

No one was around to see the big bang, (if that is what happened), and no one was around to see god spring into existance, which he must have done.
If, somehow, god never "sprang" into existance, and was simply always there, how could we imagine him if our imaginations are limited by the universe around us. We are temporal and finite, God is not. With the limitation of imagination you implied, how could we possibly consider him?[/b]

Our imaginations are too limited to fully comprehend God. For example, we cannot imagine what it means to say that God is eternal and that all he does is one single and ever-proceeding act of creation.

But we can understand it to a certain degree. We may not be able to entirely fit our minds around it, but we have enough imaginative power to have a working knowledge and understanding of God and his ways.

Going by your logic, if God is infinite, then how did he get to point B. If he is infinite than that means he too has an infinite number of steps to get here, so that means he can't be here.[/b]

No, because God is infinite and eternal (timeless) he is outside of the law of cause and effect. The universe is bound by that law by its very nature (finite and temporal). God is beyond that law by his very nature (infinite and eternal). Furthermore, God does not make steps. For God, everything is one eternal act of creation, proceeding timelessly from himself. For God, there is only Point A, and that point encompasses everything.

And as you said, if the universe is an infinite chain of cause and effect, then not only would there be an infinite number of steps to get to now, there would also be an infinite number of steps after now, all existing at the same "time" so to speak.[/b]

In our universe, steps are separated in time, that is what makes cause and effect. All the steps cannot exist at the same "time".

I am fairly sure that love is a human emotion.[/b]

English is limited in that it only has one word for Love, a concept that encompasses many things. The human emotion is one thing, and while the emotion is great, what I say when I say Love is more a state of being. It is the willingness to give of yourself to God and to others. It is a little deeper than a simple emotion.

Beavers are more logical than humans. Yes, a beaver can feel pain, but pain is not an emotion, it is a sensation.
What about those mice that get depressed and don't want to eat after extreme pain. Hey, even dogs and beavers can get depressd and not eat right?
No. they don't get "depressed", they get unsure. Unsure of what to do. They just can't handle anymore.
A human will base decisions on logic, instincts, and emotion. A lesser animal (we are animals too) will use logic and its instincts.
That was just a theory by the way. I'm entitled to them too right, .[/b]

You are certainly entitled to your own theories, however I think that it is a little erroneous to say that lesser animals do not feel emotions. If you've ever had a pet (like a dog), then you would know that a dog is fully capable of showing a range of emotions: loyalty, happiness, fear, guilt, excitement, even love. However, it is my theory that these emotions, though similar to the kinds of things that humans feel and express, are inseparably tied to the animals' instincts, and cannot reach the depth of human sentiments, sentiments which are capable of existing beyond and in contradiction to human instincts.

EDIT:
Also, ID is a scientific theory. Or so it is claimed.[/b]

Yes, so it is claimed.

-LUX