Thread: You Sane, Insane Or Unsane?

Originally Posted by Raz

Define sane (googel): mentally healthy; free from mental disorder; reasonable: marked by sound judgment;...I would not call my self sane.
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Huh? You're saying that you're not mentally healthy, that you aren't free from mental disorder, you aren't reasonable or marked by sound judgement?

I'm not sure that I'm following you. Are you saying that words have little or no value? While in a sense I agree, the fact remains that it's not the word itself that has value, but the meaning it carries. The meaning is of course found within humans, but... I don't see how you could speak of words as if they're useless. Believing in your feelings is all fine and good, but you can't exactly speak or write your feelings down. You can only write and speak with words; Symbols of your feelings. You can't directly place your feelings into another. Words are extremely convenient symbols for this.

"...why have doubt? Just believe in the experience and go with the flow."
Doubt is a good thing. Doubt is how we function as a society and as individuals. It's because you doubt that you'll be run down by a bus that you risk going outside. It's because you doubt that you'll die from electric shock caused by a short in your computer that you risk posting on a forum. If you didn't doubt anything, you'd have to consider all possibilities as equal; That the chance of dying from stubbing your toe is equal to the chance of winning the lottery. Besides, not having any doubt is just not possible. To have confidence in the positive is to doubt the negative.

In other words, I hope that you're staying inside and buying lottery tickets if you actually have no doubts.

But who is said to believe in words? Words are the means of communication, but only actions and deeds really count.
Do what is right and proper and don't worry about words...

'Sane' or 'insane' is totally dependent on the 'rules' set by society. Galileo was called insane, Copernicus was called insane, Darwin was called insane, most geniouses are called insane. If society marks someone as insane, that has no influence in it's truth, it is just an indicator that the person is thinking different from the rest.

However, for instance, people that really believe in astrology aren't just 'insane' by societies standards, they are also just silly. I mean, really, astrology is rather quite unlikely.

Originally Posted by Mark75

Huh? You're saying that you're not mentally healthy, that you aren't free from mental disorder, you aren't reasonable or marked by sound judgement?[/b]

What I'm saying is that it's all a matter of 'point of view'. Would you want me to call you sane or insane? What gives me the right? A diploma on the wall? My point of view over your point of view? or our, the masses point of view over yours?

I divide my self in to the world. The part of the world that is violent or abusive is insane. There are no borders. We create our own borders. one person is a whole universe part of this multiverse that is in one universe that probably is part of a multiverse... It's all in layers of consciousness and awareness...

To say that someone is sane is just to say that they are socially accepted. To embrace freaky thoughts and feelings dose not mean you have to act on those feelings or thoughts... Creativity... I love that word... creative thoughts... Insane creative wacky freaky feelings... embrace all of your self and realize your true potential of living. You are sane. you are insane. All a matter of perspective and when you ask your self the question. Did I think like that? I must have been insane! Did he think like that!? he must be on drugs...

Your brain thinks in patterns. Changing your way of thinking is changing the way you are feeling. Changing thinking patterns takes time... The longer you have had a pattern the deeper it's set. Like a whirlpool going down to the day you where born.


Acting in a way that will stop me from climbing the ladder of feelings or make me step down from where I am is insanity for me... I follow my heart and it is true.

when understanding enters your life, and it's of a cosmic dimension.
Your heart wanders hand in hand with the source of your souls intention.
This then ignites a light, that enables us to see.
Just where in this universe that we are meant to BE.

respect all, or take a deep fall, in to the abyss of your own shit and piss... Been there done that, never again.

Originally Posted by Mark75

I'm not sure that I'm following you. Are you saying that words have little or no value? While in a sense I agree, the fact remains that it's not the word itself that has value, but the meaning it carries. The meaning is of course found within humans, but... I don't see how you could speak of words as if they're useless. Believing in your feelings is all fine and good, but you can't exactly speak or write your feelings down. You can only write and speak with words; Symbols of your feelings. You can't directly place your feelings into another. Words are extremely convenient symbols for this.[/b]

You get me wrong and you get me right =)

as you said: the meaning is not in the words but in us. Everything we experience in this world comes from within. It's up to you to choose how outside things influence you. Where am I now? How should I feel in this place? I’m in nirvana… where are you? I’m feeling divine, how are you? I love this world and I love how it’s not perfect. I love this life and how it’s not perfect. I strive to make things, how I view them, better for me and that automatically makes things better for you… If you want to You strive to make things better for you and if you follow your hearts desire and not just your egos people around you will be uplifted as well… Feeling good is what matters… Understanding that people feel the way they think they need to feel and respecting and accepting that and not let it affect the way you feel … Unless you want to free will can be a curs or a wonderful thing. It’s all up to you, me and we.

Originally Posted by Mark75

"...why have doubt? Just believe in the experience and go with the flow."
Doubt is a good thing. Doubt is how we function as a society and as individuals. It's because you doubt that you'll be run down by a bus that you risk going outside. It's because you doubt that you'll die from electric shock caused by a short in your computer that you risk posting on a forum. If you didn't doubt anything, you'd have to consider all possibilities as equal; That the chance of dying from stubbing your toe is equal to the chance of winning the lottery. Besides, not having any doubt is just not possible. To have confidence in the positive is to doubt the negative.

In other words, I hope that you're staying inside and buying lottery tickets if you actually have no doubts.
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was talking about doubt in belief... In religious terms. Spiritual... Music... love... change...

I believe in everything I need to believe. There is no doubt in my belief. Belief is a strong drive in people (religious fanatics?) and a good tool for choosing how to feel. Let belief be a tool. Do not be a tool for belief.

I belive I have peace... I belive I have love. I belive that I am loved. I belive the world is changing for the better. I do not need change but I belive it's coming. and I belive we will all enjoy it very much =)

I was just talking about this the other day.
I think that it should be insane rather than sane, for you are in your sanity. But that is the English language for ya.

I am 1/2 & 1/2 however you wish to define it.

Originally Posted by Raz

What I'm saying is that it's all a matter of 'point of view'. Would you want me to call you sane or insane? What gives me the right? A diploma on the wall? My point of view over your point of view? or our, the masses point of view over yours?
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Um, how about those mental disorders we were talking about in the definitions? People didn't make those up, they're actual problems that cause a malfunctioning of the brain. That's why they call them mental disorders. That'd be like asking who I was to say weather you had the flu or not. Sure, I'm no doctor, but there are some very real symptoms caused by some very real problems. There's nothing subjective about this. Someone who is insane has thinking that is impaired in such a way that has caused derangement; Loss of touch with reality and rational thinking.

Originally Posted by Raz

To say that someone is sane is just to say that they are socially accepted...
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No. People sometimes like to play the "insanity" card in an attempt to discredit people they think are wrong, even if they don't suffer from said derangement.

Originally Posted by Raz

Your brain thinks in patterns. Changing your way of thinking is changing the way you are feeling. Changing thinking patterns takes time... The longer you have had a pattern the deeper it's set. Like a whirlpool going down to the day you where born.
Acting in a way that will stop me from climbing the ladder of feelings or make me step down from where I am is insanity for me... I follow my heart and it is true.

when understanding enters your life, and it's of a cosmic dimension.
Your heart wanders hand in hand with the source of your souls intention.
This then ignites a light, that enables us to see.
Just where in this universe that we are meant to BE.

respect all, or take a deep fall, in to the abyss of your own shit and piss... Been there done that, never again.
[/b]

No idea where you're going with this. I don't think I'll respect the things that don't warrant being respected, thanks.

Originally Posted by Raz

...Feeling good is what matters…[/b]

I didn't have any objections until I got to this part. While I agree that feeling good is a good thing, I certainly wouldn't say it's the most important thing. For example, if a family member died, I'd want someone to tell me rather than going on pretending that it never happened, despite the pretending making me feel better.

Originally Posted by Raz

was talking about doubt in belief... In religious terms. Spiritual... Music... love... change...
[/b]

So we shouldn't doubt any religions, in other words?

Originally Posted by Raz

I believe in everything I need to believe. There is no doubt in my belief. Belief is a strong drive in people (religious fanatics?) and a good tool for choosing how to feel. Let belief be a tool. Do not be a tool for belief.
[/b]

Eh?! "It's a good tool. See, the fanatics use it." is how I read that sentence.

There is no definitive line between insane and sane.
Society has to be able to label things in order to categorize people places and things.

Can one go in and out of sanity?

I had a lucid dream once that I felt I was insane. You would think that it would have scared me. I thought it was a very cool experience. As if it broadened my horizons.
But does your brain actually know it is insane and would it remember it?
In my case because I was not truly insane I could parallel the two experiences. In addition I have no idea if that is what insane really is. I twas just my own creation of insanity.

In some contexts, I would consider being called "sane" an insult - particularly my artistic endeavors. I want to push the envelope there, and that as much as possible without having people screaming and dashing for the exits. Play time is insane time. Twisting things to get people to look at them anew is one of the great joys in my life - especially with my kids.

In other contexts, I pride myself on being quite sane, in business and finances particularly.

As has been mentioned several times, it goes back to societal norms. This certainly makes sense with me - in business and financial life, I want to cooperate with society as much as possible in order to be successful in that context. In all else, I insist on my freedom - which includes freedom from adhering to the norms that would classify me as "sane".

Originally Posted by pj

In some contexts, I would consider being called "sane" an insult - particularly my artistic endeavors. I want to push the envelope there, and that as much as possible without having people screaming and dashing for the exits. Play time is insane time. Twisting things to get people to look at them anew is one of the great joys in my life - especially with my kids.

In other contexts, I pride myself on being quite sane, in business and finances particularly.

As has been mentioned several times, it goes back to societal norms. This certainly makes sense with me - in business and financial life, I want to cooperate with society as much as possible in order to be successful in that context. In all else, I insist on my freedom - which includes freedom from adhering to the norms that would classify me as "sane".[/b]

Great example.
One would not consider your subconscious (If you do not believe in the subconscious, bare with me..you know what I am talking about) as a sane thought process.
This is exactly where I like to extract my ideas for my abstract work.

However...my business skill may also be derived from there.

I guess he meant it in a looser sense. Maybe he didn't mean to say that he was actually deranged, but that he likes abstract and creative thinking, which are definitely good things. And I would agree with the point that ideas spawned by such ways of thinking are often unfairly criticised for not conforming to convention, even if they're good ideas.

Originally Posted by Mark75

Um, how about those mental disorders we were talking about in the definitions? People didn't make those up, they're actual problems that cause a malfunctioning of the brain. That's why they call them mental disorders. That'd be like asking who I was to say weather you had the flu or not. Sure, I'm no doctor, but there are some very real symptoms caused by some very real problems. There's nothing subjective about this. Someone who is insane has thinking that is impaired in such a way that has caused derangement; Loss of touch with reality and rational thinking.
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I do not agree that you can compare a "mental disorder" to something with physical symptoms like the flu. ah... Reality... What is real, what is true? What is real for me might not be real for you. For something to be part of your reality you have to decide if it's true for you. Some things are easier then others...

Can you answer me this so I know on what grounds I thread. What is your belief? Do you believe in science? are you a atheist or a Christian? What category do you put your self

Originally Posted by Mark75

No. People sometimes like to play the "insanity" card in an attempt to discredit people they think are wrong, even if they don't suffer from said derangement.
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Agreed. Nothing in this life is definite or finite. None of my statements are meant to be absolute truths as I believe there is no absolute truth. You can feel true, you can feel false. But is it true or false or just what I said: something you feel.

Originally Posted by Mark75

No idea where you're going with this. I don't think I'll respect the things that don't warrant being respected, thanks.
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How about this then: respect all life the way you need to be respected. Respect others reality the way you want others to respect your reality.
a individual is not worth more, then how the individual feels that other individuals are worth. Did that make more sense?

Originally Posted by Mark75

I didn't have any objections until I got to this part. While I agree that feeling good is a good thing, I certainly wouldn't say it's the most important thing. For example, if a family member died, I'd want someone to tell me rather than going on pretending that it never happened, despite the pretending making me feel better.
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And why would you feel bad if a family member died? Why dose that mean more to you then if, say, I died?
You fear that you might loose someone you love. is that really love talking? Would your family member want you to feel bad for them for their death? They will still stay dead even if you feel bad or sad. Everybody dies eventually. Death is part of life and life is beautiful =) a death, especially a family members can be emotional, and it should be in my opinion. But the emotions should be natural as death is natural. But that dose not mean that it has to push you down.

My best friend died 2½ years ago and the first week of his death I was walking around feeling bad for not feeling worse. I loved him. I cared for him. Why am I not crying more? How can I laugh when he is dead? Where is the respect for my friend? How wrong I was... I lost someone I loved. He has moved on in his journey and maybe one day we will meet again. Who knows? Not you, me or we. So why come to the conclusion that death is good or bad? Every night as I go to bed and loose my consciousness I die... When I regain it I am born and have memories of my previous lives. When I am conscious of being aware I am alive. When I'm not conscious I am dead. We die and are reborn all the time... But we will come to a point to where we will not have to die ever again. That is what I believe from personal experience.

Originally Posted by Mark75

So we shouldn't doubt any religions, in other words?
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Not quite. You are your own religion. you are a "insert your name". Just like every individual is their own religion or philosophy. Believe in your self and what you experience. Be open minded. Believe in everything you know to be true but be open for the fact that everything might be wrong.
I do not believe in religions, religions are philosophies with some good ideas and some really weird ones.

Originally Posted by Mark75

Eh?! "It's a good tool. See, the fanatics use it." is how I read that sentence.
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Not at all the way I intended you to interpret that. A religious fanatic can have such a strong belief that they decide to strap on a bomb and blow up with the intention to kill people they believe they have a grudge with due to having a difference in belief. Can you imagine taking the energy of that belief drive and put it in to something positive? Use your imagination and visualization to transform the way you feel in to how you want to feel. You can feel one way physically and one way mentally but they are linked in a way. Someone mentally ill can get physical symptoms and someone physically ill can get mental disorders from chock or just having a constant pain. The same way as feeling mentally fantastic drives us to feel physically fantastic.

a kid hurts his hand and he sees a drop of blood. he starts to cry as it hurts and the sight of blood frightens him. The same thing happens when he is 15 and it dose not effect his state of mind in any way. Why is that so?

Originally Posted by Raz

...I believe there is no absolute truth...
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Then I'm not even going to bother.