Thread: Hell Is Not Eternal Torment

Now, my bretherin and others alike, come see the Truth that has been hiden from you for so long.

Read thies words, and know: What you have been told about Hell, the fabled place of Eternal suffering and dispare, is a carfully constructed lie ...

... a Lie, that has no place in scripture

If you doubt this, then by all means, say so, and tell Us why.

Now, I have made this clame. A clame so large, that it may be impossable for me to say in one short post, but here it is, said simple and straight forwardly.

In the Bible, the word "hell" has never been used to discribe a place of fire and torment. In fact, is is said to be peaceful, and much like sleep.

... short and simple, eh? Well, I dont think you will take my word for it.

this man has a whole section devoted to explaining the truth about hell
this artical is a similer sorce of information and interpretation

... yet I (and they) may be wrong, and so, If I am, find for me your evedance, and we will see who is right.

Athiest, I know you dont beleive the Bible, and I fear there is little I can do from across the net to change that, but now know, that what you have been told about Chrisitanity is a lie, and that many your misconseptions about us have no grounding, and were givin to you by misguied people.

Stop judging the Bible by the acts of fools, as I am sure you would expect the same courtasy from Us, no?

think hard on this, and let me know what you think ... personaly, I'm on the wire.

Funny how you, as a Christian, have to write a topic about how some converntial Christians are 'wrong' (and you are right), and a nice bonus is that it makes Chrisitanity looks more kind.

Like benedictus and Limbo. Little babies BURN IN HELL. They said that for 1000 years, it would be lame to say that, yet it does show how vague Christianity is even to 'Christians' themself.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Funny how you, as a Christian, have to write a topic about how some converntial Christians are 'wrong' (and you are right), [/b]

I didn't say I was right. Please, actually read my post.

and a nice bonus is that it makes Chrisitanity looks more kind. [/b]

How? I'm stating Scriptural fact. If you think it is "conviniant" that is your choice.

Like benedictus and Limbo. Little babies BURN IN HELL. [/b]

prove it

They said that for 1000 years, it would be lame to say that, yet it does show how vague Christianity is even to 'Christians' themself.
[/b]

I have absolutly no idea what you just said

Originally Posted by Keeper

I didn't say I was right. Please, actually read my post.

[/b]

Oh, but you do think you are right.

How? I'm stating Scriptural fact. If you think it is "conviniant" that is your choice.[/b]

Silly, I never hear you pointing out other misconceptions in the bible... like how the bible actually is cruel, and how it tells how woman are inferior to men. And how you should stone homosexuals... weird, america seems mixed up on that part to. Why not tell about that Keeper? Can't really get more clear in the bible. Why did you choose to point out This misconception, why not others?

prove it[/b]

I hate to go to such sites, but this (silly) man has put alot of things from the bible into an article prooving that babies do go to hell.

http://www.christiandoctrine.net/doctrine/..._heaven_web.htm

really, people are born with sin. The bible tells you that. Babies don't go to heaven, god even tells you that.

See how blind you are to the bad parts of the bible that I have to prove sources that refer to the bible. All the good parts you provide yourself, yet when it is about bad parts (that clearly exist) I have to 'proove' it to you? Doesn't that sound weird to you?

I have absolutly no idea what you just said
[/b]

As long as the Christian institute exist, their view on infant-death was: They go to hell/limbo. that has 'just changed' in a time when it is oh so conviniant for the church.

Are you going to deny the Church said for ages that infants went to hell?

Oh, but you do think you are right.

No, I said "Here is what I have found. What do you think?". I didn't say: "You are all wrong! I know everything and you are stupid because of what I say". Something, I feel I should say, You have been doing.

Silly, I never hear you pointing out other misconceptions in the bible...

Not misconceptions in the Bible. Misconseptions about the Bible. You yourself are full of them, and you continy to spout your beleif without even cheching it first. You assum you know more about the Bible then I do, and you havn't even read the whole thing. You would say I am a fool if I didn't read every artical on evolution before saying it is wrong, so why should you be treated differently. You dont even bother to look up weather what you say has been answerd, and contuny to claim you are smarter (wich you may be) Just becasue my views are different to yours. Is that not foolish?

Now, I am going to comment on as many other misconseptions about the Bible and God (as you remember, I still have a thread running wich adressses the Scientific part (wich I am buisy prepering my next post, so dont start with your "you havn't posted so you dont have jack"))

like how the bible actually is cruel,

Is not. Stay tuned

and how it tells how woman are inferior to men.

Does not, stay tuned

And how you should stone homosexuals...

Does, I will admit that ... however, you are taking the passages out of context, something I see you doing quite often. Pay more attention to who, what and why the Bible was saying theis things. Scripture is not your personal play thing, Neruo.

weird, america seems mixed up on that part to. Why not tell about that Keeper? Can't really get more clear in the bible. Why did you choose to point out This misconception, why not others?

becasue I have only got two hands and a linnited time to do things. I intend to address every misconseption in the end, but you cant expect me to do it all in one day. Just be patent Neruo. Your house of cards will come down soon. Just be patent.

I hate to go to such sites, but this (silly) man has put alot of things from the bible into an article prooving that babies do go to hell.

http://www.christiandoctrine.net/doctrine/..._heaven_web.htm

If you think he is silly, why do you quote him?

really, people are born with sin. The bible tells you that.

I know. Its inherent in everything, just like Entropy.

Babies don't go to heaven, god even tells you that.

Yet it also says they will not burn. Did you even read what I posted?
"There is no rememberence in the Grave"
"It is Gods will that all should be saved"

Well?

See how blind you are to the bad parts of the bible that I have to prove sources that refer to the bible.

I am not blind to them. THat is why I reserch them. I am not ignoring them. When the Holidays come, I will have more time to address theis issues with you.

All the good parts you provide yourself, yet when it is about bad parts (that clearly exist) I have to 'proove' it to you? Doesn't that sound weird to you?

It does till you realize that is not what I am saying. You said the Bible says something, I asked you to show me. I dont denigh you have some good cases. What you denigh is that your cases might have an answer.

As long as the Christian institute exist, their view on infant-death was: They go to hell/limbo. that has 'just changed' in a time when it is oh so conviniant for the church.

Thank God I dont belong to one of the institutions then. Please, stop judging the Bible on what man says, because the Bible says man is wrong

Are you going to deny the Church said for ages that infants went to hell?

If by "church" you mean the institution, God-hating power mongers who have duped +/- half the Chrisitans in the world ... then yes.

If you mean the Body of Christ, who study His Words and and obey His comands from the Bible and not from the lips of man (and most definatly not the Popes), then no, I am actually agreeing with them.

Oh, but you do think you are right.

No, I said "Here is what I have found. What do you think?". I didn't say: "You are all wrong! I know everything and you are stupid because of what I say". Something, I feel I should say, You have been doing.

Silly, I never hear you pointing out other misconceptions in the bible...

Not misconceptions in the Bible. Misconseptions about the Bible. You yourself are full of them, and you continy to spout your beleif without even cheching it first. You assum you know more about the Bible then I do, and you havn't even read the whole thing. You would say I am a fool if I didn't read every artical on evolution before saying it is wrong, so why should you be treated differently. You dont even bother to look up weather what you say has been answerd, and contuny to claim you are smarter (wich you may be) Just becasue my views are different to yours. Is that not foolish?

Now, I am going to comment on as many other misconseptions about the Bible and God (as you remember, I still have a thread running wich adressses the Scientific part (wich I am buisy prepering my next post, so dont start with your "you havn't posted so you dont have jack"))

like how the bible actually is cruel,

Is not. Stay tuned

and how it tells how woman are inferior to men.

Does not, stay tuned

And how you should stone homosexuals...

Does, I will admit that ... however, you are taking the passages out of context, something I see you doing quite often. Pay more attention to who, what and why the Bible was saying theis things. Scripture is not your personal play thing, Neruo.

weird, america seems mixed up on that part to. Why not tell about that Keeper? Can't really get more clear in the bible. Why did you choose to point out This misconception, why not others?

becasue I have only got two hands and a linnited time to do things. I intend to address every misconseption in the end, but you cant expect me to do it all in one day. Just be patent Neruo. Your house of cards will come down soon. Just be patent.

I hate to go to such sites, but this (silly) man has put alot of things from the bible into an article prooving that babies do go to hell.

http://www.christiandoctrine.net/doctrine/..._heaven_web.htm

If you think he is silly, why do you quote him?

really, people are born with sin. The bible tells you that.

I know. Its inherent in everything, just like Entropy.

Babies don't go to heaven, god even tells you that.

Yet it also says they will not burn. Did you even read what I posted?
"There is no rememberence in the Grave"
"It is Gods will that all should be saved"

Well?

See how blind you are to the bad parts of the bible that I have to prove sources that refer to the bible.

I am not blind to them. THat is why I reserch them. I am not ignoring them. When the Holidays come, I will have more time to address theis issues with you.

All the good parts you provide yourself, yet when it is about bad parts (that clearly exist) I have to 'proove' it to you? Doesn't that sound weird to you?

It does till you realize that is not what I am saying. You said the Bible says something, I asked you to show me. I dont denigh you have some good cases. What you denigh is that your cases might have an answer.

As long as the Christian institute exist, their view on infant-death was: They go to hell/limbo. that has 'just changed' in a time when it is oh so conviniant for the church.

Thank God I dont belong to one of the institutions then. Please, stop judging the Bible on what man says, because the Bible says man is wrong

Are you going to deny the Church said for ages that infants went to hell?

If by "church" you mean the institution, God-hating power mongers who have duped +/- half the Chrisitans in the world ... then yes.

If you mean the Body of Christ, who study His Words and and obey His comands from the Bible and not from the lips of man (and most definatly not the Popes), then no, I am actually agreeing with them.

[edit = trying to fix quotes and ...] Lol. Yes Bonsay, I know

[edit x 2 = still not working. Oh well, you know what I'm saying and what he is]

Originally Posted by Keeper

What you have been told about Hell, the fabled place of Eternal suffering and dispare, is a carfully constructed lie ...
[/b]

no shit, sherlock

Okay well I didn't go and waste my time reading up on all that kak, and the option "I don't believe in hell as depicted by the bible, and won't read the info anyway" wasn't in the poll.

I dunno about hell being a nice place, but anyway. I don't know what I believe, and scriptures in the bible won't convince me either way. You can prove or disprove anything you want by interpreting the bible in your own special way.

I am the black plague. I am coming for your soul.

You can't proove that there is no hell. I say that there is always a possibility and that anything can be true. So I just voted that you are possesed , you know I don't mean it.

I am still staying tuned to hear why all the allmost hunderd accounts of cruel actions by eighter god or by people he directly orderd to do cruel things still doesn't Somehow make the bible a cruel piece of fiction.

I still also wonder why you do not stone homosexuals, and how (in Leviticus 20:13 “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.”, can be in ANY context NOT be interperted as "some fags cuz they suck.".

Or how woman are Not degraded by god, yet In 1 Timothy 2:11-12 the Bible says: “Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.”.

-

Also, I still wonder what your view on This passage from the bible is:

Matthew 10:34
(Jesus Christ: ) "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, …And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household."

-

Also, god gave men sin when they were born. No baptism = No sin-relief.

Isn't there a passage where god sais such a thing, that unborns will never be with him (in heaven) or something?

And still Keeper, you fail to face that you are not the Slightest bit able of critisism towards the bible. A 'source' without critisism is as worthless and dangarous as Stalin and Hilter were as persons and as Dictators.

Originally Posted by Neruo

I am still staying tuned to hear why all the allmost hunderd accounts of cruel actions by eighter god or by people he directly orderd to do cruel things still doesn't Somehow make the bible a cruel piece of fiction.
[/b]

glade to hear it. Just hope you will be ready for the answers

I still also wonder why you do not stone homosexuals, and how (in Leviticus 20:13 “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.”, can be in ANY context NOT be interperted as "some fags cuz they suck.".
[/b]

As I have already explained, that was addressed to the Jewish comunity, so that they would be kept pure.

Or how woman are Not degraded by god, yet In 1 Timothy 2:11-12 the Bible says: “Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.”.
[/b]

That is not degrading of woman. Its like saying "Enginers are not permited to cook the food. THey must build the machines and make sure they work, but no cooking!"

Also, if woman is placed in a position above man, man is more likly to follow what the woman says.
Just look at poor Solomon.
I will also provid additional information wich I have found once I can check its validity

Also, I still wonder what your view on This passage from the bible is:

Matthew 10:34
(Jesus Christ: ) "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, …And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household."
[/b]

That is one of the more commanly misinterpreted scriptures. It reperesents something wich I have seen, and wich breacks my heart:

Parents disown there children, and throw them from there houses ... when they find out that the Child has become a Christian.

THe parents take the sword, not the Chrisitians, who are told not to fight back, but turn the other cheak

Also, god gave men sin when they were born. No baptism = No sin-relief.
[/b]

first part ... no.
Second ... yes.

Isn't there a passage where god sais such a thing, that unborns will never be with him (in heaven) or something?
[/b]

Not as far as I recall.

And still Keeper, you fail to face that you are not the Slightest bit able of critisism towards the bible. A 'source' without critisism is as worthless and dangarous as Stalin and Hilter were as persons and as Dictators.
[/b]

I dont have a problim with you questioning the Bible, and I agree with your statment at the end. I also question it to see if it speaks the Truth.

However, the problim comes in when you insult it insted of question, and leave no room in your mind for it to be right.

Keeper, I am really glad to see a Christian making the point that there is no Hell. That lie scared the shit out of me when I was a child. For some reason, the other kids I knew didn't give it much thought, even though they believed in it. I was always like, "Are you sure you get the idea? Do you understand how terrible it is?!!!" The movies The Amittyville Horror and The Exorcist and a segment on That's Incredible where people claimed that they went to Hell during near death experiences wigged me out much further because I was looking at the scariest stuff in the history of film (I still think those movies are the scariest, and therefore the best, horror movies of all time.) while having been taught that it is all true. Not only was I taught that Satan and Hell exist. The people who made Exorcist and Amittyville claimed that their stories were true stories. After seeing all of that, I had an ongoing preoccupation with imagining being in Hell and thinking about just how horrifying and torturous it would be, and thinking about being trapped there beyond any hope at all of ever getting out, FOREVER!!!!! That nightmare I went through over believing in that shit was a very real childhood trauma, and I really do believe that I am still being affected by it, although I am now an atheist. The phobias are still there, to some extent, although I don't believe from a logical standpoint that there is anything to fear. Please keep spreading the word that Hell does not exist. Tell that to every Christian child you meet for the rest of your life.

But what is the "lake of fire" the Bible describes?

Yeah, glad to see someone picking up on this point. The bible actually never says anything about people being throw into a tormenting hell for eternity. That was a fib made to scare you.

After all, the bible does claim that there would be men that would claim to be doing the will of god but prove false to its power. (Bush)(Pope)(Holy Crusades)(And the crazy web of lies that has now formed much of what is called "christianity") But afterall, that where we get the illustration, seperating wheat from weeds.

QUOTE

Also, I still wonder what your view on This passage from the bible is:

Matthew 10:34
(Jesus Christ: ) "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, …And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household."



That is one of the more commanly misinterpreted scriptures. It reperesents something wich I have seen, and wich breacks my heart:

Parents disown there children, and throw them from there houses ... when they find out that the Child has become a Christian.

THe parents take the sword, not the Chrisitians, who are told not to fight back, but turn the other cheak[/b]

Wow, not many people catch that. Good job. It is talking clearly talking about the division it causes in families and relationship between friends. Of course, people only like to show it out of context...


The bible does say that the male is the head of a household. However, it is very clear that the responsiblities of the male are very strict and clear. In fact it says a man that doesnt provide for his family is worse that a man with no faith at all.

Bout the babies burning in hell...
Humans are born with sin.
Those who are not forgiven do not go to heaven.
... only 144,000 goto heaven.
Thats right. Only a small number, read closely its in there. However, the bible is VERY clear that the remaining righteous AND unrighteous will be resurected in the paradise earth. That point is present throughout the bible... I just dont see how so many people miss that point. Maybe its just cuz everyone wants to got heaven?

PS. You need an option in your poll for : "I already knew that"

Originally Posted by Keeper

In the Bible, the word "hell" has never been used to discribe a place of fire and torment. In fact, is is said to be peaceful, and much like sleep.
[/b]

Does that mean that we can LD in "hell"

Does that mean that we can LD in "hell"[/b]

Yes. Yes, it does.