Thread: Religious Indoctrination

As an atheist, i find it hard to understand why religion even exists. Yet, i do not hate them for their beliefs. Sure, we atheists may think these people are gullible and naive, but we must understand WHY they believe what they do.

A child\'s brain is extremely formitive. Tell a child that Santa Claus is real, they will believe. Tell a child that sex is immoral and only for sacred use, and they will believe so. It is no different with the subject of God. Tell a child that a supernatural being is constantly watching them, and they will believe. Also tell a child that the afterlife exists, then it will be on their mind every day.

My main point is that religious people CANNOT help it. When their brains were being formed, this subject was pounded in. They know nothing different. Since their parents, who have the most contact with the child, are religious, they will follow.

All of this ties together. Religious people of all tyes answer our (atheists) questions with unanswerable statements. How could the red sea part? Anything is possible with god. How could Jesus raise from the dead? Anything is possible with god.

You see, they have no REAL answers. Yet, they reassure themselves with such answers.

My main MAIN point. Religious people cling to their \"faith\" so much because it was such a big part of their childhood.

Christians, am I right? Am i right that you cannot explain your god, but you trust in him anyway? Is it not just because you were taught he exists from day 1?

I wasnt told of Santa Claus or Religion. I wasnt told of God, I wasnt told of an afterlife. I wasnt raised with that knowledge. I learnt of it all myself, and chose to believe. My belief in God is a choice that I made through learning of it myself, and I put my faith into that choice.

I look at other beleifs every day. I look at my beliefs, and science. I look at everything. I've formed many of my own opinions and beliefs in doing so. I follow the messege of Jesus Christ, and believe in God. I always however wonder if there truely is anything beyond this life. I always wonder if God does exist, I always wonder if there is a heaven. I believe there is, but I realize my beliefs can possibly, like anything, turn out "wrong."

PS: You mentioning Santa reminded me of something. Its going to be in senseless banter though

You, sir ExoByte, are a true Christian. In this topic, i am of course refering to \"hollow\" Christians (those who believe without ever thinking about it)

I think in some similar topic we discussed that all variations of ethnic cultures derive some religion. Look around and see how many exist. Even very third world populations can culminate a religion of some sort.

Why...Because people need answers to what they can not explain. What did this person die? What happens when I die? Who what where and why....why locust plagues, why flooding, why - why - why!

It is human nature to want to understand the unknowing. People can rest at night knowing Zeus made that lightning Bolt. That Jesus has died for their discrepnecies.


It seems though that many people fail to see what is utterly ludicrous, IMO in some of their own religious doctrines. I think it is because they don't want to see it.

i fully agree with you howetzer. We humans have a misconception that we are extremely intelligent. Compared to the other animals, this is true. But we know NOTHING of the true meaning of life (if there is one). Instead, we fill in the blanks with lightning gods and saviors to explain what we cannot.

We need to stop relying of fairy tales to help us continue living. If we explored ALL possibilites, we could further humanity.

Originally Posted by Hard

i fully agree with you howetzer. We humans have a misconception that we are extremely intelligent. Compared to the other animals, this is true. But we know NOTHING of the true meaning of life (if there is one). Instead, we fill in the blanks with lightning gods and saviors to explain what we cannot.

We need to stop relying of fairy tales to help us continue living. If we explored ALL possibilites, we could further humanity.
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You guys make me laugh.... Doesn’t exploring ALL possibilities forcibly include fairies? What if furthering humanity led to the conclusion of the existence of God in a way you can or cannot conceive at this conjuncture? What would your reaction be? Would you start wishing real hard that it was not so? "Nooo, it can't beeee, God does not exists waaaaahhaahaaaa" Then you would look pretty silly.

Most atheist I know to are really wishing they where the one (in charge). Cannot relinquish control, cannot accept that others might be right and they might not. Very difficult to deal with. A very lonely road as well.

On the other hand, true believers are rarely found in churches and rarely follow a religion. I have seen enough to make up my own mind. Mathematically, the chances that god exists in one form or another over time * infinity = 1. If infinity is not true then less than 1 but never absolutely 0.

On the subject of religion, well, most atheist did follow a religion or another in their childhood. The disbelief is more a side effect of rebellion. Since my parents are stupid and told my lies about Santa, they probably lied about god so there

A child\'s brain is extremely formitive. Tell a child that Santa Claus is real, they will believe. Tell a child that sex is immoral and only for sacred use, and they will believe so. It is no different with the subject of God. Tell a child that a supernatural being is constantly watching them, and they will believe. Also tell a child that the afterlife exists, then it will be on their mind every day.
[/b]

Tell them the opposite and they will fornicate every chance they get. I think it’s a good idea for population control to institute restriction in one form or another. How would you formulate the idea to a 5 year old child who is masturbating in front of your guests in a way that he will stop and believe that he should not do it every time he feels like it?

My main point is that religious people CANNOT help it. When their brains were being formed, this subject was pounded in. They know nothing different. Since their parents, who have the most contact with the child, are religious, they will follow.
[/b]

Just like you cannot help yourself, you are also pounding out information that someone pounded in, sometimes we pound out the opposite. We do have the same basic programmability. Some use it, some abuse it, religion is not really a factor here.

All of this ties together. Religious people of all tyes answer our (atheists) questions with unanswerable statements. How could the red sea part? Anything is possible with god. How could Jesus raise from the dead? Anything is possible with god.
[/b]

Have you tried talking about god to someone who can use word and analogies you can understand without you finding it silly?

Oh and the red sea parted because 1) it was, in fact, the reed sea, a marsh land on the way to mount Sinai. Or 2) it happened on the ridge (between the gulf and the sea) at low tide, that was often exposed and used by ancient traders to quickly cross to the other side. Between Ethiopia and Yemen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Red_Sea.png

You see, they have no REAL answers. Yet, they reassure themselves with such answers.
[/b]

Yep, they don’t have real answers. Neither do you. Neither do I.

My main MAIN point. Religious people cling to their \"faith\" so much because it was such a big part of their childhood.

Christians, am I right? Am i right that you cannot explain your god, but you trust in him anyway? Is it not just because you were taught he exists from day 1?
[/b]

You cling to your faith because people you like are with you in that context. I don‘t see anything wrong with that. If you want to be part of the community and it is religious then might as well join up.

You, sir ExoByte, are a true Christian. In this topic, i am of course refering to \"hollow\" Christians (those who believe without ever thinking about it)
[/b]

That is a very narrow minded conclusion. AND right after he told you he carefully weighed his options. Tsk tsk tsk. I think you have personal issues about believers…. You just can’t stand them maybe? Is that why you said this nonsensical sentence? He just said he carefully thought about it and you say he does not think?

1+1=2

Now tell me I can’t add….

By now, your face is probably getting a little red so I’ll stop correcting you.


Religion (existence of god optional) is a great landmark in all civilisations. Dismissing it would be foolish. It is a great tool for rallying people and controlling them. A must have for a well behaved free society who‘s main goal is the survival of the country. Tell me, is there any other system that is as effective without using force or dictatorship?

Indoctrination… Well, that is also a control tool. Something ugly but required. How else are you going to form deffence against possible enemies if the people are not indoctrinated. Unfortunately, there are few who will fight to the death in the name of, lets say, hmmm Coca Cola! (Hahaha, “I’m the name of Classic Coke, I will fight my enemies to the death”). I would rather be indoctrinated into believing in a god that I have never seen than into believing a dictator or president that does foolish things right in front of my face.

Originally Posted by Hard

As an atheist, i find it hard to understand why religion even exists. [/b]

http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/inde...howtopic=38873

Indoctrination is the Major pillar of Christianity. If you that that away, and let people truely make their own choices, on a responsible age, only the people that correlate 'miraculous healing' to religion will turn, and perhaps a few other radical factors will turn people.

It is going to take a long time to stop indoctrination in the world (for really, you can not say it isn't), but thanks to the growing information-rich culture it might happen in the next 100 years. Once indoctrination has gone, only small cults of religions will remain, but that is fine aslong as they don't turn into terrorist.

(Funny how thanks to the growing hate in western-society 'muslim' and 'terrorist' have some sort of invisible connection in everyones mind. Bad. And totally unrelated to this topic.)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("icuurd12b42")</div>

You guys make me laugh.... Doesn’t exploring ALL possibilities forcibly include fairies? What if furthering humanity led to the conclusion of the existence of God in a way you can or cannot conceive at this conjuncture? What would your reaction be? Would you start wishing real hard that it was not so? "Nooo, it can&#39;t beeee, God does not exists waaaaahhaahaaaa" Then you would look pretty silly.

Most atheist I know to are really wishing they where the one (in charge). Cannot relinquish control, cannot accept that others might be right and they might not. Very difficult to deal with. A very lonely road as well.

On the other hand, true believers are rarely found in churches and rarely follow a religion. I have seen enough to make up my own mind. Mathematically, the chances that god exists in one form or another over time * infinity = 1. If infinity is not true then less than 1 but never absolutely 0.

On the subject of religion, well, most atheist did follow a religion or another in their childhood. The disbelief is more a side effect of rebellion. Since my parents are stupid and told my lies about Santa, they probably lied about god so there[/b]

I am glad I could humor you.
However, if you read my post I do not contradict myself that I see. I merely state that most of religious doctrines seems foolish. I do not state, there is not a God. I feel that what I stated is great evidence that it is in our human nature to manifest a higher being for explanation.
Most organized religions are no different than any other cult. Just because you preach a good thing (which is good) does not mean that there is not brainwashing going on. Just as there is when a Satanic cult is unraveled. You get merit for preaching good and ostracized for preaching bad. God, bad or however you would like to label it, it is preaching.

cmon....Give some people credit. Sure in some cases, most of which are due to religion being pressed on them too much, there is rebellion. But I don&#39;t think that that is by any means the main reason an atheist of sorts would defy there being a God. To the contrary, I feel that they put harder thought into the entire scope of things to find out a reasonable answer to existance, rather than just believing in what a preacher told them.

lol@ atheism = &#39;lonely road&#39;.

Where I come from it is more like: lolwtf christian? Why? you silly? Being atheist has nothing to do with friends, just with one made up one. And made-up friends at mature age all always called cases of insanity, unless it&#39;s religion.

Maybe in America, where retarded Christians like W. Bush reign, atheists do have a hard time.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

I am glad I could humor you.
However, if you read my post I do not contradict myself that I see. I merely state that most of religious doctrines seems foolish. I do not state, there is not a God. I feel that what I stated is great evidence that it is in our human nature to manifest a higher being for explanation.
Most organized religions are no different than any other cult. Just because you preach a good thing (which is good) does not mean that there is not brainwashing going on. Just as there is when a Satanic cult is unraveled. You get merit for preaching good and ostracized for preaching bad. God, bad or however you would like to label it, it is preaching.

cmon....Give some people credit. Sure in some cases, most of which are due to religion being pressed on them too much, there is rebellion. But I don&#39;t think that that is by any means the main reason an atheist of sorts would defy there being a God. To the contrary, I feel that they put harder thought into the entire scope of things to find out a reasonable answer to existance, rather than just believing in what a preacher told them.
[/b]

I have to agree that my post was not directly in tune with the topic. I&#39;ve just been reading a lot of comments with the same attitude in many topics and this one was the one that got my fingers going.

I did not really quote you in my post as there was nothing contradictory in it. The only thing that gets my panties in a bunch are statements like I underlined. The holier than thou attitude mirrored from religious zealots.

One thing you must understand it that 95% of the population does not have the capability to figure things out on their own and create a good foundation to build on… and religion is a good outlet for them and for the rest of us. I believe the possibility of god is true and I do not follow a religion though I was raised in one. You don’t have to believe in god or religion to appreciate the value of religion (catch my drift ).

People do what they are told from childhood until they rebel. Atheists usually are born in religion and rebelled or have parents who did. These are the only two possibilities.

There is brainwashing going on everyday&#33; You don’t even have to be in a cult for this, all you need is watch TV and go to work.

Religious doctrines foolish… Hmmm. Don’t eat pig they make you sick hmm foolish. Respect your parents.. Hmmm Do not kill hmmm. Should I go on? Well, maybe you live in the US, then this conversation would make sense as the freakazoids down there are a bunch of crazies that just can’t stop adding new things to fuck with your head.

If Christians stuck with the 10 commandments then we would not be in the mess of the US.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

lol@ atheism = &#39;lonely road&#39;.

Where I come from it is more like: lolwtf christian? Why? you silly? Being atheist has nothing to do with friends, just with one made up one. And made-up friends at mature age all always called cases of insanity, unless it&#39;s religion.

Maybe in America, where retarded Christians like W. Bush reign, atheists do have a hard time.
[/b]

That was my underlying point. If we were in China the discussion would be about something else. Do you believe indoctrinating people to believe in chi is wrong and are people who believe in chi stupid?

Originally Posted by icuurd12b42

That was my underlying point. If we were in China the discussion would be about something else. Do you believe indoctrinating people to believe in chi is wrong and are people who believe in chi stupid?
[/b]

Yes, I find indoctrination in every country something bad, even in china.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Yes, I find indoctrination in every country something bad, even in china.
[/b]

Ah, Chi, Ki, other of such thing. Isn&#39;t Chi more tibetian or something?

Actually, that gives this point an intresting twist. Alot of those monks by &#39;learning about chi&#39; can do some amazing things that no one could do with just conventional training.

Anyhow, no one killls anyone out of the name of &#39;chi&#39;. Actually, since Chi-learnings, dispite that I think they are floating-hippy-shit() they do actually has some &#39;value&#39;. Chi is like a simple atom model. To pose atoms as pure spheres is totally &#39;wrong&#39; concerning atoms are a bunch of electones, neutrons and protones and not just &#39;balls&#39;, still, the ball-model works fine for alot of things.

Christianity Is not a theory or model that, dispite it being flawed, actually holds some value for being correct in a reasonable spectrum of cases and hypothesis.

Still, nothing should be indoctinated. I think it is fine to teach people about chi, maybe even about silly herbs, aslong as you do not pose it as the Only and Absolute Truth.

Originally Posted by icuurd12b42

I have to agree that my post was not directly in tune with the topic. I&#39;ve just been reading a lot of comments with the same attitude in many topics and this one was the one that got my fingers going.

I did not really quote you in my post as there was nothing contradictory in it. The only thing that gets my panties in a bunch are statements like I underlined. The holier than thou attitude mirrored from religious zealots.

One thing you must understand it that 95% of the population does not have the capability to figure things out on their own and create a good foundation to build on… and religion is a good outlet for them and for the rest of us. I believe the possibility of god is true and I do not follow a religion though I was raised in one. You don’t have to believe in god or religion to appreciate the value of religion (catch my drift ).

People do what they are told from childhood until they rebel. Atheists usually are born in religion and rebelled or have parents who did. These are the only two possibilities.

There is brainwashing going on everyday&#33; You don’t even have to be in a cult for this, all you need is watch TV and go to work.

Religious doctrines foolish… Hmmm. Don’t eat pig they make you sick hmm foolish. Respect your parents.. Hmmm Do not kill hmmm. Should I go on? Well, maybe you live in the US, then this conversation would make sense as the freakazoids down there are a bunch of crazies that just can’t stop adding new things to fuck with your head.

If Christians stuck with the 10 commandments then we would not be in the mess of the US.

[/b]

You and I icuurd12b42 I believe are on the same page. In fact I stated word for word in another thread what you have said about the ten commandments. I do believe religion is a good thing. Of coarse you pick out the utmost obvious reasons to why. Parents, commandements etc. This does not mean I disregard principles. Values that many religions preach. I respect that. However I can&#39;t buy into many of what of the things a lot of religions preach. That does not make me holier than thou, IMO. I still see it as a form of brain washing. Is that too strong of a word? Highly influenced perhaps?&#33;
Can you argue that it is not any different than a cult? Does that make me a zealot?
Religion is a good crutch for society.

That was my underlying point. If we were in China the discussion would be about something else. Do you believe indoctrinating people to believe in chi is wrong and are people who believe in chi stupid?[/b]

This is MY underlying point too. Given any culture you would be disguised under another form of highly influenced people This seems to validate that it is humane nature to want to believe in something.
Does that not seem to discredit the truth of religion a little. And to go as far as to say they are stupid would be putting yourself on a pedestal. You could make the argument they are ignorant. As am I. I am just not influenced by a religious source.

"chi" as in energy, Neruo.

so, it is wrong for schools to say there is no God, and indoctrinat the children that way as they are?

Originally Posted by Keeper

so, it is wrong for schools to say there is no God, and indoctrinat the children that way as they are?
[/b]

I awate an answer

Originally Posted by Keeper

I awate an answer
[/b]

I didn&#39;t even see that.

so, it is wrong for schools to say there is no God, and indoctrinat the children that way as they are?[/b]

Lets ask ourselves: Is it wrong to teach people that Trees need water? No, it isn&#39;t because it really, really seems that they do. Is it not ok to teach gravity? No, it is ok, because the theory of gravity suits or reality in all cases know to mankind. Is it not ok to teach einsteins theory of relativity? Ofcourse it is, because even while it doesn&#39;t have a correctness-reach that goes as far as quantum-mechanics, it still works for all the other cases. And it isn&#39;t used in the cases of quantum-mechanics where it doesn&#39;t work. So, Is it wrong to teach evolution? A theory that seems to be correct in just about all cases, and still vague in some, but not persee wrong. I don&#39;t see how it is.

You also made another mistake by saying that teaching evolution is the same thing as telling people there isn&#39;t a god. Teaching evolution has nothing to do with spirituality. It has as much to do with spirituality as teaching the Earth revolves the Sun. The Christians didn&#39;t agree with that eighter.

-

Edit: And to Really awnser your question: It wouldn&#39;t be ok to tell people there 100% certainly isn&#39;t a god. Real athiest don&#39;t even exclude the possiblity of some sort of higher being. However it is fine to tell people that it is unlikely, for it is.

As an atheist, i find it hard to understand why religion even exists. Yet, i do not hate them for their beliefs. Sure, we atheists may think these people are gullible and naive, but we must understand WHY they believe what they do. [/b]

I certainly don&#39;t think the main body of religious believers are marginally more "gullible and naive" than atheists are. I&#39;ve seem some pretty dumb atheists. Sure, there&#39;s obviously a higher proportion of people in religious sects who are going to believe things that are obviously not true (statues that cry blood, perhaps) but to claim some sort of superiority over anyone for their beliefs is probably a whole lot worse than having them in the first place.

Sure, that&#39;s not what you&#39;re trying to say, but in my view it seems that a lot of atheists are edging ever closer to claiming some sort of higher intelligence and &#39;enlightement&#39; (how ironic) over those who believe in something. That&#39;s not bringing the world forward in any way. In fact, that&#39;s pretty damn backwards.

As to why people believe in religion, it&#39;s not all that hard to figure out. Anyone sensible, really, will quickly realise that life doesn&#39;t exactly have much point when you take it at face value. Some people can cope with that a lot better than others. Some might turn to religion to give them answers they can&#39;t find elsewhere. Does that really blow anyone&#39;s mind to think about? Not mine.

Indoctrination and the development of a child&#39;s mindset and the like is a pretty big topic. Kids are a valuable asset: you can build brainwashed armies with them if you&#39;re at all smart. Kids are the next generation and they&#39;re going to be the wielders of whatever knowledge we&#39;ve got.

Whatever you decide they should be taught, you had better make sure you&#39;ve put a lot of thought into it. I don&#39;t believe that teaching any kind of religion - atheist, theist or otherwise - is probably a good idea. I would much rather teach them a love of culture, history and critical thinking, hm?

Originally Posted by Howetzer

You and I icuurd12b42 I believe are on the same page. In fact I stated word for word in another thread what you have said about the ten commandments. I do believe religion is a good thing. Of coarse you pick out the utmost obvious reasons to why. Parents, commandements etc. This does not mean I disregard principles. Values that many religions preach. I respect that. However I can&#39;t buy into many of what of the things a lot of religions preach.
[/b]

Neither can I. My biggest beef about (Christian) religion in this new era of American civ is that it no longer follows the basic fundamental principals.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

That does not make me holier than thou, IMO.
[/b]

No. But making statements like Atheists think better, have a better view on things and so on does. Even if you may be right in the context you are in.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

I still see it as a form of brain washing. Is that too strong of a word? Highly influenced perhaps?&#33;
[/b]

It is brain washing. So is working at Wal-Mart.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

Can you argue that it is not any different than a cult?
[/b]

It depends on the region. If you live in an area where it is forced on you with no way out than yes. I don’t live in this context so standard religions around here did not adopt cultish behaviour (yet). Though I am afraid that there are Americanised versions of Christianity spurting up here and there and that, in maybe 5-10 years, we might suffer the my way or the high way phenomenon you are experiencing at this point.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

Does that make me a zealot?
[/b]

Yes/no. If you adopt the attitude some religious nuts take to defend your point then yes. Stay neutral than no.. Put yourself or your view above any other than you are suffering from the same ailment as zealots (religious or otherwise). I knew when I wrote this that there was a possibility that you might take it a bit personal. I was just testing to see if I get a reaction out of you. I did not and I am happy to see that.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

Religion is a good crutch for society.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

[/b]

It is. And a very good one. When injured, it is good to see the option is still there.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

This is MY underlying point too. Given any culture you would be disguised under another form of highly influenced people This seems to validate that it is humane nature to want to believe in something.
[/b]

It is ingrained in our mind. Why fight it. There must be something good coming out of it (or diving in it wilfully). Why fight the hunger. It is there to be dealt with.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

Does that not seem to discredit the truth of religion a little. And to go as far as to say they are stupid would be putting yourself on a pedestal. You could make the argument they are ignorant. As am I. I am just not influenced by a religious source.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

[/b]

It does not discredit religion at its fundamental level. It is there, it existed when you got here. I serves a purpose. The only discredit I can support are the misrepresentation the US is currently suffering from in it‘s revival years. Bad people following bad advise from bad preachers (yes, we are on the same page). I did not really say people are stupid. I just suggested that many lacked the information and the logic required to create a good foundation. Such foundation can include god and religion though it is not required. Ignorance is not a sin (or meant as an insult). It can be remedied with time.

I am influenced by religious sources. There are just too many believers in my family and my ancestors for me to go and trash them just for my sake. Honour thy family is a big point in my decision to believe that god probably exists. Though how I choose to believe it is up to me and no one on this planet can change the way I have made my choice. Not even my fervent god fearing American cousins. My version and theirs does clash a lot. Though I usually and politely express my view on the subject (usually with great dismay from their part).

From their reaction, I can see how people chose to become atheists. I mean they don’t really give you a choice do they. NOOOO, God must have blue eyes&#33;&#33;&#33; DNA research is a sin, it is written in the bible… Type of nonsense. Though when I deal with my Canadian friends, it a whole different ball game. So, I guess, it all depends on the context. Christian religion a cult? In the US, I would tend to say yes. Over here, no.

No. But making statements like Atheists think better, have a better view on things and so on does. Even if you may be right in the context you are in.
It is brain washing. So is working at Wal-Mart.
Yes/no. If you adopt the attitude some religious nuts take to defend your point then yes. Stay neutral than no.. Put yourself or your view above any other than you are suffering from the same ailment as zealots (religious or otherwise). I knew when I wrote this that there was a possibility that you might take it a bit personal. I was just testing to see if I get a reaction out of you. I did not and I am happy to see that.

I am not at all offended personally.
I do not see though where I have done anything but point out what I see as an awareness. Not claiming my point is entirely correct or better..or smarter.

It does not discredit religion at its fundamental level. It is there, it existed when you got here. I serves a purpose. The only discredit I can support are the misrepresentation the US is currently suffering from in it‘s revival years. Bad people following bad advise from bad preachers (yes, we are on the same page). I did not really say people are stupid. I just suggested that many lacked the information and the logic required to create a good foundation. Such foundation can include god and religion though it is not required. Ignorance is not a sin (or meant as an insult). It can be remedied with time.

So true about ignorance. We are all ignorant in many ways. It is just not knowing something. It is just an aggressive word similar to brainwashing.

Pertaining to your above post and with regards to the one below...
This is how I see it discredited. It being here before me has what relevance?
You admit that it is brain washing - (Walmart).
Your family could have been guided to any one of a thousand beliefs. As a result, you are influenced by their behavior and beliefs, but not anything to do with truth.
Once you adopt the idea that any religion could have been derived from anywhere, it is hard to go back to a fundamental belief in any religion.

I am influenced by religious sources. There are just too many believers in my family and my ancestors for me to go and trash them just for my sake. Honour thy family is a big point in my decision to believe that god probably exists. Though how I choose to believe it is up to me and no one on this planet can change the way I have made my choice. Not even my fervent god fearing American cousins. My version and theirs does clash a lot. Though I usually and politely express my view on the subject (usually with great dismay from their part).

Excellant post Kaniaz.
What you stated here really makes me go nuts thinking about having children --&#62;[quote]

Indoctrination and the development of a child&#39;s mindset and the like is a pretty big topic. Kids are a valuable asset: you can build brainwashed armies with them if you&#39;re at all smart. Kids are the next generation and they&#39;re going to be the wielders of whatever knowledge we&#39;ve got.

Whatever you decide they should be taught, you had better make sure you&#39;ve put a lot of thought into it. I don&#39;t believe that teaching any kind of religion - atheist, theist or otherwise - is probably a good idea. I would much rather teach them a love of culture, history and critical thinking, hm?

Originally Posted by Howetzer

Pertaining to your above post and with regards to the one below...
This is how I see it discredited. It being here before me has what relevance?
You admit that it is brain washing - (Walmart).
[/b]

Originally Posted by Howetzer

Your family could have been guided to any one of a thousand beliefs. As a result, you are influenced by their behavior and beliefs, but not anything to do with truth.
[/b]

They could only have been influenced by only one belief at that time. It is the one that was there before them (get it). And the reference to truth here has no value at all. Because at this point in time, there is no proof of truth and no proof of falsehood either. Just belief that there is a god. That is the fundamental principle of most religion. Like, it’s not like I was brain washed to believe the grass is pink (which can be truthfully verified).

Originally Posted by Howetzer

Once you adopt the idea that any religion could have been derived from anywhere, it is hard to go back to a fundamental belief in any religion.[/color]
[/b]

Well, that is one binary thought.
It depends on how religion was instituted in your mind. It was never enforced as absolute truth in my area, just a general cool idea. And finding out that it WAS derived from many possible sources does not make it any less/more flawed, just more realistic. Most cats around here know the bible was not written by god but by people with a very well defined agenda.

Neruo, at many of those schools, they actually are saying there is no God, and that there is no reason for man to adheer to a moral code of any form.

just you wait, and see what happens to amn when he forgets about God

I have a fealing that most athiests here were forced into a religion by people who dind&#39;t know one end of the religion form another, and now are trying to bite back.

am I wrong?

They could only have been influenced by only one belief at that time. It is the one that was there before them (get it). And the reference to truth here has no value at all. Because at this point in time, there is no proof of truth and no proof of falsehood either. Just belief that there is a god. That is the fundamental principle of most religion. Like, it’s not like I was brain washed to believe the grass is pink (which can be truthfully verified).[/b]

My point being icuurd is that, had your parents been exposed to the Moron&#39;s belief, there is a good chance that they would have adhered to that belief. There is always the exception, I know. The mere fact that haven it been any religion, makes me dubious of believing.
How is one to believe in something once they realize and become aware that this process occurs?

Originally Posted by Keeper

I have a fealing that most athiests here were forced into a religion by people who dind&#39;t know one end of the religion form another, and now are trying to bite back.

am I wrong?[/b]

I only know one atheist personally. He was not push, but his parents had no belief either.
But would imagine that what you say does happen a lot.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

My point being icuurd is that, had your parents been exposed to the Moron&#39;s belief, there is a good chance that they would have adhered to that belief. There is always the exception, I know. The mere fact that haven it been any religion, makes me dubious of believing.
How is one to believe in something once they realize and become aware that this process occurs?
[/b]

You&#39;re going to have to reformulate your text before I can answer. The context of your words is getting lost. I have no idea what your (2) last sentences are saying.