Top Ten Signs

Top Ten Signs that You're a Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Trinity god.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" -- including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loop-holes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects -- will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet you consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving".

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to prove Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -- but still call yourself a Christian.

It's a bit harshly written, but it seems about right.

Quote:

---

While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to prove Christianity.
[/b]

---

What do you mean here, about the "rolling idiot"?

Whoo! Impresive hate speach. And completly unBiblical. You may be discribing the average person who claims to be a Christian, but not what the Bible says we must be.

Now:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YourImaginaryFriend

Top Ten Signs that You're a Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.[/b]

---

Bible mentians many gods, but says that YHWH is supprem, so no, it doesn't. Next

Quote:

---

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.[/b]

---

Dirt, and the Breath of God. And I dont feal dehuminized, I feal like they are saying morals dont exist, there is a difference

Quote:

---

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Trinity god.[/b]

---

Only an idiot laughs at someone elses belifes. Bible doesn't condone it, ergo, No true Christian would, ergo no Christian is a Christian if they do. Next

Quote:

---

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" -- including women, children, and trees![/b]

---

First, it was firstborn, not just babies, and second, my face wouldn't go purple, I go very sad that it was doen, just like I go when I hear the horrors that everyone has ever suffered.

Quote:

---

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.[/b]

---

Who told you that? Its even in scripture that Anglels (ie. the gods) slept with woman and they bore Giants, like in the greek legends, wich I beleive to hold a seed of truth

Quote:

---

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loop-holes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.[/b]

---

One, its not been established, as carbone dating is only viable for about 10,000 years, and not all scientists beleive that, as even many seculer scientists have problims with that two. Second, God spock to Moses and told him the dates, so its not "prehistoric tribsmen". Oh, and the anchents where very advanced.

Quote:

---

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects -- will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet you consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving".[/b]

---

Hell is not scriptureal. Next

Quote:

---

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to prove Christianity.[/b]

---

modern science, geology, biology and physics actually conferm the bible. I have a thread on that. Check it out.

Quote:

---

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.[/b]

---

God doesn't garenty that He will answer your prayers with a yes, who told you that?

Quote:

---

1 - You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -- but still call yourself a Christian.
[/b]

---

First, that is a generalization, (as is everything you said), and not everyone who calls himself a Christian is a Christian. Now, why did you generalize so much? Poeple arn't Christian unless they follow the Bible and test the scriptures. Those who you "say" are "christian" dont, so they arn't

now, why do you hate Us so much?

Just goes to show some of many problems with the christian religion.

They deserve our mockery... :evil:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pensive

Just goes to show some of many problems with the christian religion.

They deserve our mockery... :evil:
[/b]

---

you did read what I wrote, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bonsay

It's a bit harshly written, but it seems about right.

What do you mean here, about the "rolling idiot"?
[/b]

---

some churches have people who "become filled with the holy spirit" and roll around on the ground speaking in tongues. Its quite funny to witness, actually.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YourImaginaryFriend

some churches have people who "become filled with the holy spirit" and roll around on the ground speaking in tongues. Its quite funny to witness, actually.
[/b]

---

I think that is a bit extreem myself, but that doesn't do anything against the Bible itself.
If it isn't in the Bible, you cant judge against Christiansity with it. You can take pot-shots at all the people who claim to be Christian but arn't, but you cant say We all are like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keeper

Whoo! Impresive hate speach. And completly unBiblical. You may be discribing the average person who claims to be a Christian, but not what the Bible says we must be.[/b]

---

Now:

Quote:

---

Bible mentians many gods, but says that YHWH is supprem, so no, it doesn't. Next[/b]

---

Who cares if the bible says YHWH is supreme?! The Koran says he is not...whats your point?

Quote:

---

Dirt, and the Breath of God. And I dont feal dehuminized, I feal like they are saying morals dont exist, there is a difference
[/b]

---

Of course...only Christians have morals, right? lol

Quote:

---

Only an idiot laughs at someone elses belifes. Bible doesn't condone it, ergo, No true Christian would, ergo no Christian is a Christian if they do. Next
[/b]

---

What bible are you reading? The Christian bible says to KILL anybody who believes differently than you....you have read your bible, correct?

Quote:

---

First, it was firstborn, not just babies, and second, my face wouldn't go purple, I go very sad that it was doen, just like I go when I hear the horrors that everyone has ever suffered.[/b]

---

It doesnt matter...it is proof that the Christian God is a monster at best.

Quote:

---

Who told you that? Its even in scripture that Anglels (ie. the gods) slept with woman and they bore Giants, like in the greek legends, wich I beleive to hold a seed of truth[/b]

---

I hope you are joking.

Quote:

---

One, its not been established, as carbone dating is only viable for about 10,000 years, and not all scientists beleive that, as even many seculer scientists have problims with that two. Second, God spock to Moses and told him the dates, so its not "prehistoric tribsmen". Oh, and the anchents where very advanced.[/b]

---

Really? God spoke to Moses? Can you prove that? No.

Quote:

---

Hell is not scriptureal. Next[/b]

---

Hell is very much in the scripture...again, have you read the bible? I have many times.

Quote:

---

modern science, geology, biology and physics actually conferm the bible. I have a thread on that. Check it out.[/b]

---

They most certainly do not. Modern geology proves the earth to be 6,000 years old, and flat? Nope. Modern science shows any proof at all for a worldwide flood? NO. Modern Biology proves that we were created in a single day by God? No, quite the opposite. Modern Physics show it possible to walk on water, or to rise from the dead. Nope. Are you nuts?

Quote:

---

God doesn't garenty that He will answer your prayers with a yes, who told you that?[/b]

---

Again...read your bible. Jesus says God will give you ANYTHING that you ask for. Period.

Quote:

---

First, that is a generalization, (as is everything you said), and not everyone who calls himself a Christian is a Christian. Now, why did you generalize so much? Poeple arn't Christian unless they follow the Bible and test the scriptures. Those who you "say" are "christian" dont, so they arn't
[/b]

---

People who follow the bible and test the scriptures usually become Atheists. People who don't study the bible and don't like testing out its claims remain Christians.

Quote:

---

now, why do you hate Us so much?[/b]

---

I don't hate you. I don't hate Christians. I hate Christianity for all of the pain, suffering, death, and brainwashing it has caused.

Take you for instance: Nothing original to say. Defending a book that you THINK is true. I have heard your claims from many Christians a million times and not one has been able to prove the bible correct.


Here is a website that shows all of the problems with the bible:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

It covers almost every single passage in the bible showing its errors and the real evilness behind it all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keeper

you did read what I wrote, right?
[/b]

---

I'm sure he did...as I did. Do you think that somehow you are going to change the world's mind on Christians?!
Again, you have nothing new or original to say...just repeating what every othe bible robot does. You base your beliefs on the bible, as all Christians do. The bible can and has been proven wrong.

I can at least have some respect for those who believe in God for their own personal reasons. But, people like you who go around spewing out verses from the bible as though it is based on 100% fact make me sick to my stomach. You even take it to the next step, and go around trying to act like science somehow proves the bible to be correct. You get your information from Christians...not average Scientists. A Christian who is biased towards the bible and goes to school for science with the only intention of proving the bible correct is not a real scientist, in my opinion.

A scientist looks at facts and draws conclusions from them. THey don't take conclusions and try to create facts to support those conclusions. That is something modern Creationist tend to not understand. Faith is just that: Faith. Trying to use science to prove faith is stupid. It will never happen.

Quote:

---

Now:


Who cares if the bible says YHWH is supreme?! The Koran says he is not...whats your point?

---

Correction, it does say that He is supreme, though they Give the Creator a diffent name. And I was replying to your point that the Bible sayus he is not. Oh, and its Qu'ran, not Koran.

Quote:

---

Of course...only Christians have morals, right? lol

---

I didn't say that, nore did I imply that. I said that if you beleive in the (scientificly prooven to be wrong) theory of evolution, you are saying that there is such thing as absolute right and absolute wrong, hence, no true morals

Quote:

---

What bible are you reading? The Christian bible says to KILL anybody who believes differently than you....you have read your bible, correct?

---

THat was writen to the Jewish community, not to the beleivers. If YOU read your Bible you would see that.

Quote:

---

It doesnt matter...it is proof that the Christian God is a monster at best.

---

Huh?

Quote:

---

I hope you are joking.

---

the first few verses of Gen 6 say I'm not

Quote:

---

Really? God spoke to Moses? Can you prove that? No.

---

can you proove thart your not in the Matrix? Or that I'm a woman and not a man? What does that have to do with anything if you beleive everything you are told about evolution and carbon dating. Carbone dating only works for 10,000 years. So can you proove evolution?

Quote:

---

Hell is very much in the scripture...again, have you read the bible? I have many times.

---

alright, the burdon of proof is on you. show me where it says so

Quote:

---

They most certainly do not. Modern geology proves the earth to be 6,000 years old, and flat? Nope. Modern science shows any proof at all for a worldwide flood? NO. Modern Biology proves that we were created in a single day by God? No, quite the opposite. Modern Physics show it possible to walk on water, or to rise from the dead. Nope. Are you nuts?

---

EVERYONE in the old times new the earth was round. It was the middle agers who screwed things up. It is in scripture the world is round, not flat, so dont generalize. And modern science actually does proove the Bible, if you took the time to look for it and not just exept your biest opinion that everything everone says to discredet the Bible. You didn't even look to see if it was true or not, you just exepted there words without question, and on your own opinion. I have reserched the matter, and have found overwelming evedence FOR God and against evolution. Someone told you there was a hell full of fire.Guess what, there isn't, and you just exepted that that was what we beleived. And you question me on what I studied, and you only reject whthout proof?

Quote:

---

Again...read your bible. Jesus says God will give you ANYTHING that you ask for. Period.

---

poove it.

Quote:

---

People who follow the bible and test the scriptures usually become Atheists.

---

who told you that? In fact, it is many athiests, mostly scientists, who test the scriptures become Chrisian. Are they Idiots or Robots?

Quote:

---

People who don't study the bible and don't like testing out its claims remain Christians.

---

Or become aatheists because it "just doesn't make sence"

Quote:

---

I don't hate you. I don't hate Christians. I hate Christianity for all of the pain, suffering, death, and brainwashing it has caused.

---

But that was not doen by Christians, but thoes who claimed to be, but wernt. If I went out and said, "I am Buddest, and I must now kill all none buddests" and several other people did the same, you cant say that "Buddests" did it because that is not the path of Buddism

Quote:

---

Take you for instance: Nothing original to say. Defending a book that you THINK is true. I have heard your claims from many Christians a million times and not one has been able to prove the bible correct.
Here is a website that shows all of the problems with the bible:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

---

many "inconsistancies have already been debunked, and many people fail to realize that there is a difference between the Jewish community and Believers

Quote:

---

It covers almost every single passage in the bible showing its errors and the real evilness behind it all.
I'm sure he did...as I did. Do you think that somehow you are going to change the world's mind on Christians?!

---

No, but I will make a stand. Weather few, many or none listen, it is what I must do, though I know that my words here are unlikely to change your mind.

Quote:

---

Again, you have nothing new or original to say...just repeating what every othe bible robot does. You base your beliefs on the bible, as all Christians do. The bible can and has been proven wrong.

---

and then prooven right again, even by science.

Quote:

---

I can at least have some respect for those who believe in God for their own personal reasons. But, people like you who go around spewing out verses from the bible as though it is based on 100% fact make me sick to my stomach.

---

when did I do that? I'm just defending the one who doesn't need defending (dumb me :) )

Quote:

---

You even take it to the next step, and go around trying to act like science somehow proves the bible to be correct.

---

well, it does. AS I mentioned, I have a thread on that in the forum. Link in my sig.

Quote:

---

You get your information from Christians...not average Scientists.

---

actually, I get my info from SCientists who are christian.

Quote:

---

A Christian who is biased towards the bible and goes to school for science with the only intention of proving the bible correct is not a real scientist, in my opinion.

---

Our teachers are Chritian to, and Have no problims with the Bible or what it says. (okay, not all my teachers are, cause some are athiest and Muslim, but you know what I mean)

Quote:

---

A scientist looks at facts and draws conclusions from them. THey don't take conclusions and try to create facts to support those conclusions. That is something modern Creationist tend to not understand. Faith is just that: Faith. Trying to use science to prove faith is stupid. It will never happen.

---

So, when I tell you that many many scientists beleive, and that many of the famous sicnetists in history are Chritsian, what will you do? (link's in my Signiture)

i like it when people take stuff too seriously...

.. that made me laugh.

Another ten signs: :bigteeth:

1. You shall not worship any other god but YHWH.

2. You shall not make a graven image.

3. You shall not take the name of YHWH in vain.

4. You shall not break the Sabbath.

5. You shall not dishonor your parents.

6. You shall not murder.

7. You shall not commit adultery

8. You shall not steal.

9. You shall not commit perjury.

10. You shall not covet.

Quote:

---

modern science, geology, biology and physics actually conferm the bible. I have a thread on that. Check it out.[/b]

---

A thread in which you do NOTHING but post about how you'll get around to posting evidence at some later date. I'm skeptical that you will EVER get around to posting any significant evidence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keeper

One, its not been established, as carbone dating is only viable for about 10,000 years, and not all scientists beleive that, as even many seculer scientists have problims with that two. Second, God spock to Moses and told him the dates, so its not "prehistoric tribsmen". Oh, and the anchents where very advanced.
[/b]

---

More than 10,000 years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ataraxis

More than 10,000 years.
[/b]

---

Yes....and carbon dating isn't the only method for dating things. There are other methods which go much further back in time than carbon dating.

For example:

Chronometric, dendrochronology, potassium argon, stratigraphy, flourine tests, palynology, etc....

I kind of understood that YHWH means God, but what does it stand for?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YourImaginaryFriend

It covers almost every single passage in the bible showing its errors and the real evilness behind it all.
[/b]

---

Isn't bringing evil into your argument a bit silly (you representing the scientific viewpoint)? What do both of you really want to accomplish by arguing so much? It's not like you'll come to an agreement or something, at least it doesn't seem like it.. :)

My brother is deeply religious, christian. He believes in creation. I study artificial intelligence and evolution. Guess what? We have many interesting, philosophical conversations and get along very nicely. Maybe you should try, too.

Keeper, you're actually doing something that really does get to me... you're deciding who is and is not a Christian. I thought judging was to be left to your God. If you're claiming to be God, then you have more problems than the average preachy Christian.

The origin of morals and the origin of human life are in no way connected. For one thing, if there is a God, morals could have been introduced at any point along the evolutionary timeline. There's no reason for you to feel as if evolution demoralizes humanity. Oh, and chimps have morals too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by arh

I kind of understood that YHWH means God, but what does it stand for?
Isn't bringing evil into your argument a bit silly (you representing the scientific viewpoint)? What do both of you really want to accomplish by arguing so much? It's not like you'll come to an agreement or something, at least it doesn't seem like it.. :)

My brother is deeply religious, christian. He believes in creation. I study artificial intelligence and evolution. Guess what? We have many interesting, philosophical conversations and get along very nicely. Maybe you should try, too.
[/b]

---

I have many religious friends. Most of which I get in debates with from time to time. It never gets heated or taken to a personal level.

Because in the end...none of us REALLY know for sure.
We are all just taking the info and interpreting it in our own way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by arh

I kind of understood that YHWH means God, but what does it stand for?

[/b]

---

The Tetragrammaton (Greek: τετραγράμματον; "word with four letters") is the usual reference to the Hebrew name for God, which is spelled (in the Hebrew alphabet): י‎ (yodh) ה‎ (heh) ו‎ (vav) ה‎ (heh) or יהוה‎ (YHWH). It is the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel.

-from Wikipedia

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dreammask

Keeper, you're actually doing something that really does get to me... you're deciding who is and is not a Christian. I thought judging was to be left to your God. If you're claiming to be God, then you have more problems than the average preachy Christian.
[/b]

---

actually, I'm stating a fact. If you dont beleive the promise in the Bible, then you arn't Christian. For example, if you are a girl, I can say that you arn't a boy because you dont fit the criteria

Quote:

---

The origin of morals and the origin of human life are in no way connected. For one thing, if there is a God, morals could have been introduced at any point along the evolutionary timeline. There's no reason for you to feel as if evolution demoralizes humanity. Oh, and chimps have morals too.
[/b]

---

morals are an itricate part of being human. I am intreged by why you say animals also have morals. explain please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keeper

I am intreged by why you say animals also have morals. explain please.
[/b]

---

One example is that a lot of animals have very strict morals about who is allowed to mate with whom. Zebras will test the potential mates of their daughters by sparring with them. If the father Zebra doesn't think the potential mate meets his standards, he will not allow him to mate with his daughter. Some monkeys will severely beat monkeys that are not high enough on the social ladder to mate with high status female monkeys. There are apes in Sri Lanka that live in packs and have leaders, and if the leader of a pack gets too abusive toward the young apes, the female monkeys will get together with the male monkeys and encourage the male monkeys to take the leader away from the pack and beat him senseless, after which the leader has to start over at the bottom of the social ladder. Most female vertebrates will go berzerk if they think their newborns are being threatened by predators. I was even attacked by a mocking bird one time over that. This stuff does not happen as a result of animals' going to church.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YourImaginaryFriend

Because in the end...none of us REALLY know for sure.
We are all just taking the info and interpreting it in our own way.
[/b]

---

You are absolutely right. Best words I've heard in a long time.

Keeper, what do you say to this? And why would it be so weird if animals also had a concept of moral? Isn't it plausible that all social animals have it? If not, how would they be able to form a community?

I get puzzled every time people claim other animals don't have feelings, consciousness, language etc. First, how do they know? Because they can't see it? It's llike saying fish don't have feelings, because you can't hear them scream -- which is of course as nonsense as it sounds.

Take birds, for instance. I bet a lot of you have had a budgie or some sort of social bird. If you watch them socialize, listen to the things they say and how they react, it is pretty obvious they have a complex behavioural pattern which cannot be credited to instinct alone. I don't understand what they say, but I can clearly hear difference between the noises: pitch, duration, volume etc. Dismissing this as primitive roars is just silly.

So, I ask again: what is the point of making the human species so unique? Yes, we have hands, we have invented things, and right now we have a thriving technological society. So what? Cell phones doesn't make the average person any smarter, but that's beside the point. We've been lucky. We have hands. I bet there are other animals smarter than us, for example elephants or dolphins. If you believe in neuroscience, check out their brains for proof. If you don't, see how they behave - and compare it to a normal, worker class human family.

Does the fact that I'm not the most intelligent creature on earth bother me? Not at all. I'm happy with who I am, and I believe in love and respect for other beings. That is what matters. As YourImaginaryFriend said, none of us is really sure; maybe we were created for a special purpose, maybe not. Still, that doesn't condone the kind of species arrogance I hear so all too often.

Keeper, you said:

Quote:

---

Only an idiot laughs at someone elses belifes. Bible doesn't condone it, ergo, No true Christian would, ergo no Christian is a Christian if they do.[/b]

---

This has nothing to do with the "promise of the Bible." You are making a judgement about what a Christian can and cannot do, in this case laugh at polytheistic beliefs. Your statement is judgemental and in no way reflective of how a Christian is defined.

Quote:

---

not everyone who calls himself a Christian is a Christian. . . . Poeple arn't Christian unless they follow the Bible and test the scriptures.[/b]

---

If a person cannot read, does that mean they cannot be Christian since they can't "follow the Bible and test the scriptures" without being able to read them? According to your Bible, there are only a few requirements for being a Christian and I don't recall "testing the scriptures" as a requirement, nor following the Bible except in those few instances where Jesus says how to get to God, which doesn't mention any holy book.

Quote:

---

You can take pot-shots at all the people who claim to be Christian but arn't, but you cant say We all are like that.[/b]

---

You are implying that the people others might "take pot-shots at" are not Christians, which is irrelevant at best and judgemental in the least.

In reference to the bad things Christianity has brought to humans, you said,

Quote:

---

But that was not doen by Christians, but thoes who claimed to be, but wernt.[/b]

---

You're claiming some sort of supernatural ability to judge who is and is not Christian. You think Christians are incapable of doing something wrong? So you think an insane person who really is a Christian, but goes off and does something heinous is really right in what he's doing simply because he's a Christian?

You aren't expressing what the Bible says about who is and is not a Christian. You aren't quoting scripture. You're expressing your judgements of other self-proclaiming Christians. That is a problem, for you, because the Bible says not to judge others.

You're also still insisting that hell isn't scriptural, which is pretty funny but sad at the same time. It's nobody else's job to prove to you what is in the Bible. You're supposed to go and find out for yourself if you want to know. You probably wouldn't believe a non-Christian about what the Bible says anyhow - go find out for yourself and stop telling people to prove it to you. The way you go about doing this, just to give you a push in the right direction, is to try proving that hell IS in the Bible. If you find reference to hell, damnation, perjury, whatever, you'll know you're wrong. If you can't find a single thing (and you really did your research well), you'll know you're probably right.

Quote:

---

morals are an itricate part of being human. I am intreged by why you say animals also have morals. explain please.[/b]

---

Universal posted a nice initial explanation, but here's another case that I personally find the most interesting:
Bonobo's social networks are incredibly complex. Bonobos are expected to perform according to something akin to their "civic duty". A bonobo that doesn't give warning when a predator is around, or a bonobo who takes more than it gives are both prone to punishment. The first few times, its just a slap on the wrist, a social demotion. But if it occurs repeatedly, they will likely be exiled. Bonobos don't tend to be violent--in fact, they almost never physically fight, and practice something like "make up sex" to settle arguments, rather than physical conflict. Thus, exile is more or less their version of capital punishment.

And not to mention dolphins. Did you know that the american army people experimented with "dolphin soldiers" who would look for mines and tag them so they could be destroyed later.
The moral thing about it is that they also experimented with "dolphin soldiers #2", which would find an "enemy" diver and thrust himself into him. The spear mounted on the nose of the dolphin would basically stay in the diver, then the compressed air from a tank on the back of the dolphin would fill the enemy diver up and make him explode! (Humans really are pure evil to eaven think of something like this :shakehead2: .) What happened to the dolphins? They turned emo and were useless, so they abandoned the "dolphin soldiers #2" project.
Aha!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsen

Universal posted a nice initial explanation, but here's another case that I personally find the most interesting:
Bonobo's social networks are incredibly complex. Bonobos are expected to perform according to something akin to their "civic duty". A bonobo that doesn't give warning when a predator is around, or a bonobo who takes more than it gives are both prone to punishment. The first few times, its just a slap on the wrist, a social demotion. But if it occurs repeatedly, they will likely be exiled. Bonobos don't tend to be violent--in fact, they almost never physically fight, and practice something like "make up sex" to settle arguments, rather than physical conflict. Thus, exile is more or less their version of capital punishment.
[/b]

---

And there you go. So tell me what's this thing with you and Bonobos?

I was replying directly to Keeper's posts.
Yes, they do tend to come up quite frequently in discussions on morals and complex social groups though, mostly because they're the second most socially complex species on earth, and are simultaneously incredibly peaceful. Chimps are fairly violent, as are humans, but bonobos aren't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsen

I was replying directly to Keeper's posts.
[/b]

---

I know who's post you were replying to, If I'm not mistaken you did quote him right? I was just curious as to why you had a thing for Bonobos that all.

...?

Like I said, they're a socially complex species who manages to cooperate without any violence, unlike several other species. I find that very interesting, moreso than the known cases of moral values in dolphins, chimps, gorillas and a few other species.

Yeah Yeah... I heard you the first time. Social..Smocial. You still didn't explain what's this thing that you have for Bonobos? Listen Tsen I'm getting a little annoyed with you beating around the bush on this question. All I'm saying keep it real and and explain to me what's this love passion for bonobos?

Love passion? WTF?
I refer to them several times because they've got a complex social behavior and show that morals, ethics and so forth aren't exclusive to humans, and ALSO because I feel that we have a few lessons to learn from them, such as how to cooperate without violence.
So what is it about my references to bonobos that has you all in a tizzy?

Okay Tsen whatever man! If you can't be straight up with this question then forget about it. Man I swear It's like talking to a brick wall. :thumbdown2:

Dude, you're totally confusing me.
What the hell are you expecting me to say?
That I rape bonobos sometimes because they make me feel kinky?

I GAVE you a straight-up answer: They've got a social system that is incredibly complex and is simultaneously violence-free. That's VERY unique, and makes them a very interesting and important subject to study. Not to mention they're one of the closest living relatives of humans (I'm pretty sure they're closer to us than chimps, but I can't remember for sure).
And that's it--seriously, what are you expecting me to say?

Why are you making this so difficult? I think you're doing that on purpose. Man that is not cool. I mean damnit! I miss the days when two men can just talk, you know, and be straight up with each other. I mean what happened to those days when two men can just sit back and get a Rap you know? Okay Tsen you wanna sugar coat it all, then thats on you, but I'll remember the next time I ask you a uestion. :shakehead2:
Not cool... Not cool at all.

WTF?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsen

WTF?
[/b]

---

he's messin with ya, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ne

Why are you making this so difficult? I think you're doing that on purpose. Man that is not cool. I mean damnit! I miss the days when two men can just talk, you know, and be straight up with each other. I mean what happened to those days when two men can just sit back and get a Rap you know? Okay Tsen you wanna sugar coat it all, then thats on you, but I'll remember the next time I ask you a uestion. :shakehead2:
Not cool... Not cool at all.
[/b]

---

My guess is that you get your kicks trying to press people's buttons by making bizarre accusations and pretending like you don't understand what is said back to you. That's very original. What grade are you in? Do your parents know you are using their computer after your bed time?

Nirvana Boris Starseed, is that you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsen

I rape bonobos sometimes because they make me feel kinky[/b]

---

New signature quote anyone?

Ne-Yo, why don't you just state your opinion clearly? It's sad if every discussion about religion has to end in the religious side running around screaming. It doesn't have to be that way, surely you have an argument of some sort? Why does the fact that some animals seem to have a complex social life provoke you?

I understand that beliefs can't always be documented and that they often exist on their own premise. But that doesn't give you any right to blow off Tsen's post with childish assumptions about zoophilia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal

My guess is that you get your kicks trying to press people's buttons by making bizarre accusations and pretending like you don't understand what is said back to you.
[/b]

---

And for the sake of your self-esteem, you better answer that one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal

My guess is that you get your kicks trying to press people's buttons by making bizarre accusations and pretending like you don't understand what is said back to you. That's very original. What grade are you in? Do your parents know you are using their computer after your bed time?

Nirvana Boris Starseed, is that you?
[/b]

---

Pushing people's buttons? WTF :wtf: are you talking about? First and foremost if I was just playing around I am more than sure that Tsen is more than intelligent enough to pick up something like that, am I right? Also don't you think it's pretty impossible for someone to be THAT GULLIBLE and NAIVE? Aren't you supposed to be Tsen's friend? Why would you downplay him like that? One another note, tell me when have I pushed your buttons because that's a pretty strong accusation your making. Im sure a man of your intelligence can produce a reasonable source to back up such a strong statement. So I'll be waiting to see that.

Get a life, troll.

Get a Life troll? That's the best you can come up with? Man you're Pathetic. Get a life troll.. Give me a break. I'm gonna spare hurting your feelings for now only because I gotta jet. But don't expect it again. :nono:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ne

Pushing people's buttons? WTF :wtf: are you talking about? First and foremost if I was just playing around I am more than sure that Tsen is more than intelligent enough to pick up something like that, am I right? Also don't you think it's pretty impossible for someone to be THAT GULLIBLE and NAIVE? Aren't you supposed to be Tsen's friend? Why would you downplay him like that? One another note, tell me when have I pushed your buttons because that's a pretty strong accusation your making. Im sure a man of your intelligence can produce a reasonable source to back up such a strong statement. So I'll be waiting to see that.
[/b]

---

Cool. That's awesome. I guess I won't tell your teacher to keep you inside during recess.

is it just me, or has this gone way off topic?

Keeper, you're all wrong. Finding out the truth is not what matters - it's about who's best!

Sorry if I was a bit rude there, chaps. Just had to say it.. :oops: