Thread: A question to the christians.

This is how it was explained to me when I asked the same kind of questions in church school.
The Jews were Gods chosen people. They were told about Christ's coming.
The ones that accept Christ as the Messiah are now the christians.
The Jews that are still waiting for the Messiah have missed the boat.

Originally posted by Neruo

lol I am so much going to get verbally raped by Leo or someone.

Lol I'm waiting for Leo too get you too so I can get my chuckle of the day.

That's a great question. I opt for the 'they all went to hell' answer....Or maybe he decided to make an exception for people way back then because of their ignorance. That is just one more piece of evidence that such a God doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Gwendolyn
That's a great question. I opt for the 'they all went to hell' answer....Or maybe he decided to make an exception for people way back then because of their ignorance. That is just one more piece of evidence that such a God doesn't exist.

lol. The 'all went to hell' thing would be pure torture, becouse the people hadn't heard of (invented) the god people believe in these days. If 'god' would send them all to hell, it would be like putting people in jail without process or charges

And ignorance... well yeah, why Does god have to interfere? I mean he tells everyone he exists, though his sun, but he doesn't explain everything, even while people want to know alot of stuff. Why didn't god explain the earth rotated around the sun, would have saved us alot of mess. But no, god has to tell people he exists. What was so bad about the world Before people knew about god? Not like religion has brought that much morale, it brought more war.

And TAISIA, ya should have asked them what god did to people before judism was 'invented'

Originally posted by Gwendolyn
That's a great question. I opt for the 'they all went to hell' answer....Or maybe he decided to make an exception for people way back then because of their ignorance. That is just one more piece of evidence that such a God doesn't exist.

I agree. Religion was just invented to make people feel better about their lives. I do believe in a higher existence, but the whole heaven and hell-thing is ridiculous.

When I asked a Southern Baptist friend this same question, she replied that people who died BC were sent to a sort of purgatory until Jesus came and did his thing. So if someone died in 11,500 BC, that person would have 11,550 or so years of purgatory before being given the choice to convert in the afterlife and get a ticket to heaven. It seems a very unsatisfactory answer to me, especially considering that those people had their own religions, their own gods, and their own beliefs about the afterlife, but then again, I'm not a Christian.

This thread is gumby. The questions are based on Ancient orthodox day christianity understaning, which is as bad as the jewish understanding of israel.
when people were really really really primitive in their spiritual understanding. I know some still are but come on. No-one really believes it get a hold of reality man!!!!!

Originally posted by Neruo
What was god doing at 11.500 B.C. (For instance). There was no christianity yet. Did everyone go to hell? And were the Jews right till jesus came? So arn't all the old jesus traditions still 'right' besides not-believing-jesus.

lol I am so much going to get verbally raped by Leo or someone.

God is the Modal Point of Collective Consciousness, and Collective Consciousness largely depends upon people's willingness to think Collectively. Before the Age of Civilization, when social organization was based on narrow kinships and tribalism, God would have been very fragmentary. It was only after an age of Cosmopolitanism -- were 4 or 5 Great Civilzations were all communicating and trading at once, that the notion of Monotheism was able to arise. In the Cosmopolitian Mentality there was the psychological and Spiritual opening for the Evolution of a Universal God.

Now, of the Civilizations we know that had existed, we can only go back about 9 Centuries to 7000 B.C. However, it is my opinion that the Black Sea and the Meditaranean Sea had once been merely lakes, because there had been no opening to the Atlantic Ocean -- that the mountains that stretched from Africa to Spain had been uninterrupted and thus the Atlantic was on one side, and thousands of square miles of dry land on the other. In the middle was a lake that may have been filled by the Danube and the Nile, but the rate of evaporation and absorption would have kept the Lake much smaller than the Seas that are now in place. Because of the furtile influence of so much fresh water in these Vallies -- the Black Valley and the Meditarranean Valley we can call them, there probably were the First River Valley Civilizations.

Such a Civilization would go far in explaining the Sphinx, which was Ancient and origins a mystery even to the very first Egyptians that we know about.

But when some earthquake had knocked a hole in that Mountain Wall between Africa and Spain, well, the greater part of this or these Civilizations were washed away. The legendary "Flood" was not some rain -- that is how things get distorted by legend and story telling, as the storytellers did not know what I know but still had to account for things, and so they freely made up a tale of an impossible Rain.

Originally posted by burns91


I agree. Religion was just invented to make people feel better about their lives. I do believe in a higher existence, but the whole heaven and hell-thing is ridiculous.

You take Civilization quite for granted, don't you. I guess you don't have much of a problem with barbarians carrying off your shop, your wife and you children for violent death or tedious slavery.

The most intuitively kindhearted and loving people representative of Humanity deplored the violence and chaos, and envisioned Civilization and Collectivity. It was this Vision which formed the basis for Religion. And not just intellectually, but Psychologically -- it is the Highest Promptings of Psychology which we might refer to as the Religious Impulse, and when psychology attains to a certain threshold, it becomes Spirituality.

As for the Survivability of the Soul... one only needs to wonder whether every energy system which we feed off of is necessarily connected to the physical body. Yes, all of the coarse qualities of our body will perish with the body, but we might suspect that there may be a very ethereal seed of some spiritual being that may survive. Now, I would also suppose that most people will die and be entirely dead. If there is a very ethereal soul, well, it may be that one needs to connect to this Ethereal Soul while one is still alive, so that it can be a resort when we die. So, Spiritual Traditions that encourage and advance practices of acsetic introspection and meditation may be the real achievers of Immortality. But heedless protestants with their do-nothing Faith -- well, they might not go to any particular Hell, but they may go entirely out of existence with their death. Perhaps only the Realized Mystics will have a place to go because they already found it.

Indeed, in my most important Vision, the Angel of God told me "Not all will live beyond the Grave"... but I was assured that some will.

Leo, out of both of those posts, I still don't see your explanation/opinion for what happened to people's souls before Christ. Talking about floods, the Sphinx, and pillaging villages doesn't seem related to the original question.

Originally posted by burns91
Leo, out of both of those posts, I still don't see your explanation/opinion for what happened to people's souls before Christ. Talking about floods, the Sphinx, and pillaging villages doesn't seem related to the original question.

Non-Sequitur!

Originally posted by Ynot


Non-Sequitur!

But with Leo it's more of an art form. ~

yeah Leo, what did happen to those people?

And the thingabout "Before the Age of Civilization, when social organization was based on narrow kinships and tribalism, God would have been very fragmentary" and such... tell that to the average christian and the would disagree. How can god be fragmented? From what I hear from you it seems like Civilization = god. But many great civilizations trived in the past and still today without the faith in a (christian) god. I don't think that even most christians would agree with your views Leo. About god being collective ...bla... It's an intresting explination to christian religion, but if you are right, just about every christian is wrong. Becouse they just think god is a guy with a beard and a superman-son.

Yeah the topography stuff... ok... it has rather little to do with the topic. What did god do to people before god was invented?

Originally posted by burns91


I agree. Religion was just invented to make people feel better about their lives. I do believe in a higher existence, but the whole heaven and hell-thing is ridiculous.

Exactly what I think......

Originally posted by burns91
Leo, out of both of those posts, I still don't see your explanation/opinion for what happened to people's souls before Christ. Talking about floods, the Sphinx, and pillaging villages doesn't seem related to the original question.

I try to let people to do a bit of thinking for themselves. One can write a complete book and do all the thinking, or one can make one relevent point and allow people to make all the correct inferences for themselves.

But if I need to explain...

What happens if Paul is the Antichrist?

Well, all the talk of Salvation came from Paul. Remember, Christ had simply been a Teacher of Morality and of Ascetic Mystical Practices, just as John the Baptist had been, and just as many Ascetic Orders had been. to Christ Himself, there was no big Sea Change, except perhaps in the quality and quanity of Spiritual Sponsorship that followers of His Teachings would receive from the Other Side. So, the Status Quo was very much where it had always been -- Souls would be Judged.

Now, it was only a Paulist Assumption that the Murder of Jesus significantly changed anything. Since I ever and always reject everything of Paul, I thought you would certainly appreciate that I would see no significance in anything revolving from Paul, his teachings, his influences.

Besides, did i not comment on my own Revelation concerning the Angel of God and how He spoke to me saying that not all souls will live beyond the Grave, but only certain souls. And did I not point our my supposition that only those souls might survive into some Ethereal Afterlife Existence but only if they had done the Spiritual Exploring before their deaths. this is why Astral Projection and Dreaming may be so important. Dreaming and its opening gateway into Astral Spirituality may be our Ticket to Survival.

But there was another thing that the Angel of God told me -- "Birth is but an Illusion and Christ is the Life in All things". what that means is that the Cosmis Christ Consciousness is alive in all of Life as a Field of Collective Consciousness. As long as this Cosmic Christ Consciousness is in place, why should i care about my own individual consciousness. Why should it matter? Think of a Fire, how a fire is made up of tongues and sparks arising out of the fuel, existing as light and heat for only a moment, reaching up to a point, and then passing out into nothingness. But the Fire remains. As Individuals we are the sparks and tongues of the flame, but the Cosmic Christ is the Fire. It is only important that the Fire exist. The Sparks do their job while they exist. I, Leo Volont, now rise up illuminated and illuminating, but what fuel I had will one day be spent and I will resolve into nothingness. but other sparks and other flames will follow and Christ the Cosmic Fire will remain, and perhaps even grow.

The Immortality of the Soul, then, is not such a great issue for me. As long as God will continue to exist, along with the Collective Consciousness, the universe hardly is desperate to preserve my continuity and existence.

Originally posted by InTheMoment

But with Leo it's more of an art form. ~

Yes... I'm glad somebody has noticed.

I try to provide images and references to provide some texture and context for the relevent points I do make... if any.

Originally posted by Neruo
yeah Leo, what did happen to those people?

And the thingabout "Before the Age of Civilization, when social organization was based on narrow kinships and tribalism, God would have been very fragmentary" and such... tell that to the average christian and the would disagree. How can god be fragmented? From what I hear from you it seems like Civilization = god. But many great civilizations trived in the past and still today without the faith in a (christian) god. I don't think that even most christians would agree with your views Leo. About god being collective ...bla... It's an intresting explination to christian religion, but if you are right, just about every christian is wrong. Becouse they just think god is a guy with a beard and a superman-son.

Yeah the topography stuff... ok... it has rather little to do with the topic. What did god do to people before god was invented?

Someone else on this Page has posted that God is Evolving. I quite agree. It may be that some Absolute POTENTIAL for God exists, but the Providential God of Grace which is accessable to Humanity, that Part of God we can actually reach, that may be limited by our own Evolution. In that Sense the God of Humanity evolves alongside the Evolution of Humanity, the Spiritual Evolution.

God said something like, "The rules have suddenly changed. I sacrificed my son/self to Heaven, where I am in the first damn place, so that you won't have to be tortured eternally for the old reasons. You will now be tortured for eternity for not believing that the rules have suddenly changed. I killed my son/self back to where I have been the whole time because I so love the world that I want the basis for eternal torture to be even more illogical than it used to be. That is how much I love the billions of people who will be tortured under the new rules." Very, very rational. I think God must be really sexually frustrated. Where's Mary? (Either one will do, but preferably both at the same time. We need a miracle here.)

bla bla bla bla

Originally posted by Universal Mind
God said something like, "The rules have suddenly changed. I sacrificed my son/self to Heaven, where I am in the first damn place, so that you won't have to be tortured eternally for the old reasons. You will now be tortured for eternity for not believing that the rules have suddenly changed. I killed my son/self back to where I have been the whole time because I so love the world that I want the basis for eternal torture to be even more illogical than it used to be. That is how much I love the billions of people who will be tortured under the new rules." Very, very rational. I think God must be really sexually frustrated. Where's Mary? (Either one will do, but preferably both at the same time. We need a miracle here.)

Well, yes, it was the Paulist Contention that the Murder... he would call it the 'sacrifice' of Christ... had changed the rules. But actually, we find that even Hebrew Tradition had already rejected the resort to Human Sacrifice, in the Story of Abraham refusing to sacrifice his son Isaac, and God rewarding that decision. Paul's resurrection of the viability and efficacy of Human Sacrifice was a huge step backward, by a thousand years or more.

And people really need to stop asserting that God had murdered His own Son. Remember, that Christ had come to be a King of Kings -- a Messiah. The Three Kings of the East had been responding to a Prophecy of Life, not Death. We need to remember that, unlike the Calvinist Protestants, we the rest of us believe in Free Will. The Power Elite of Jerusalem took it upon themselves to assassinate the Christ, their Messiah. Yes, God could have protected Jesus, and in fact Jesus did apply for such Protection. It is a great indication that the Death and Resurrection were not planned because Jesus did everything to beg His way out of it. He WANTED to be the Messiah. He prayed not to be killed... not that He was entirely afraid for His Life, but this would be the end of His Mission... His Life Work would be a sum failure. And more, Christ realized that the Rejection of his Messianic Mission would be met with Retribution and Punishment. As He foretold, the Generation would not pass before Jerusalem would be destroyed, the Temple tossed down, and the Jewish People dispersed -- John in Revelations would define it as the End of the World, but it was only to be an end to that Age, the end of that particular Dispensation. The Promise to Abraham would be declared null and void. But, all of this turned not on God's Decision, but upon the political decisions that had been made in the Jewish Capital. Decisions... Actions... they have their Consequences. Paul tried to pretend that Murdering the Messiah was some great Blessing -- that it was a Good and Wise thing to have tortured and slaughtered Jesus. Christian Doctrine assumes so much. But we only need to look at the downfall of those who made that decision -- they were severely punished -- and the fate of those who subsequently condoned such a conspiracy. The Church of Paul has not had a very peaceful History, and in every context that it expressed the Doctrines of Paul -- favoring the Murder of Christ, the Church has received its own retribution and punishment.

Indeed, the Saving Grace of the Church has been that Doctrine has returned to the Moral and Spiritual Teachings of Christ and has followed the Oracles of the Apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary and Her Saints. Indeed, the last Two Thousand Years have virtually been Her Dispensation. For all the talk of Christ, it has been Herself who has been doing the Appearing, the Talking. The Cathedrals of Europe were not called "Our Lord's" but were clearly and distinctly appellated "Our Lady's" -- Notre Dame.

It is odd that Atheists, Secularists and Protestants profess some wonder about Mary and ask when She will ever appear. Duh!? Their Culture and their Media so everything possible to suppress Her Appearances and suppress Her Cult, except when they can make it seem ridiculous --- we get a complete onslaught of the Airwaves when somebody swoons over a piece of Virgin Mary toast, or a Virgin Mary Potato, but when Our Lady appears in Apparition in Fatima Portugal, Garabundal Spain, Akida Japan or Medjugorje Hersegovina, then there is a virtual media blackout. I suppose that 90% of the Media in the West is owned and controlled by less than 20 persons -- all Rich and Wealthy enough for us frankly to infer that Religion and Morality could not possibly carry much of a priority in their lives. And like many Ambitious Men in history, they assume without much forethought that by Destroying the Status Quo and throwing the World Order into Chaos, that it would be to their benefit by allowing them to come in and pick up the pieces. Of course, it never works out like that, and if they would study History they would know it. Christ euphemized it by saying that the Meek would inheret the Earth, but what we can really understand in the starkest terms is that the lowest, the basest, the worst and the most contemptable and ruthless of thugs sweep and after a Civilization is destroyed. Look at the former Soviet Union... Russia is again asserting some control over its jurisdictions, but the former states had simply been captured by crime bosses and war lords. Former Yugoslavia decended into utter Civil War and genocide, and order had to be imposed from without. The true collapse of Civilization can be measured in Africa. Those who years ago plotted to have the Maintainers of Civilized Order run out of the Dark Continent... they had all been the first to be slaughtered in the ensuing struggles within the Power Vacuum.

But those who Control the Media see none of this, and everyday plot and scheme and propagandize for the dissolution of the last remnants of Civilization and Morality. Orwell and Huxley had it wrong. Humanity would not be victimized by Too Much Order, Too Much Authority, but by Chaos. Look at History. Humanity never suffered from Civilization, but from its Collapse. Government -- strong Central Government -- has always been the Bulwark and Strength that would hold against the Tide of Barbarism. But the Publishing Houses of the 20th Century painted for us the opposite picture. With every new Book and Movie we are made to believe that Civilization is the Enemy and that we will all only ever be happy if we turn the entire world over to Predatory Individuals for their uninterrupted exploitation, rape, and slaughter -- to hand ourselves over as slaves, and all of our property as loot. We are to submit to Free Competition and then not be shocked when the Rich and Powerful Win and all the remainder of the World Lose.

Originally posted by Boris
bla bla bla bla

if all you understand is 'bla bla bla', well, what does that say about your intellectual discernment or your reading comprehension?

I was just matching the intellectual intelligence of universal

Originally posted by Boris
bla bla bla bla

Wow. What an excellent counter analysis. That was very impressive.

Thank you for setting me straight with such deep education. I bet you are on the verge of actually backing up one of your absurd insults.

Originally posted by Boris
I was just matching the intellectual intelligence of universal

One should try to express complete thoughts.

Remember the rules of the Essay -- first tell what point it is you wish to make, and then make the point, and then form some conclusion or inference regarding the point you just made, for instance: That Universal Mind Character just drones on. Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah. I should wonder if he even makes sense to himself.

You see, it is short, but it is a complete essay, and one can read it and come away with an unambiguous thought. Whereas, your simpler construction was open to all sorts of inferences... I might have thought you were criticizing myself (and with my extended paragraphs, I might feel a bit vulnerable to the blah blah blahs).