If so what will He be like?
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If so what will He be like?
A logical atheist , if there's to be any hope for the human race.
Hope is not an act of an Atheist, so how can there be any?Quote:
Originally posted by R.Carter
A logical atheist , if there's to be any hope for the human race.
Hope is an act of a Christian, or more important a act of faith.
Where is all that evolutional jargon you guys are always talking about?
Come on use that massive brain 'nobody' gave you...
I'm a hopeful, optimistic person.Quote:
Originally posted by Awaken4e1
Hope is not an act of an Atheist, so how can there be any?
Hope is an act of a Christian, or more important a act of faith.
Where is all that evolutional jargon you guys are always talking about?
Come on use that massive brain 'nobody' gave you...
Definitely not a theist.
But, hopefully he (or she, try including gender neutral terms Awaken to be more inclusive and less pompous) will have no need for atheism either.
Because one only needs atheism around a mass of theists.
So, the higher level of being for humankind (use that word more often, Awaken, humankind) will be a level where it will not be necessary to suffer the presence of theists by calling one's self an atheist.
Without theists, one has no reason to be an atheist. Instead, one can simply be.
You guys may need to reevaluate your Atheistic beliefs if you continue to express 'Hope'Quote:
Originally posted by Ex Nine
Definitely not a theist.
But, hopefully he (or she, try including gender neutral terms Awaken to be more inclusive and less pompous) will have no need for atheism either.
Because one only needs atheism around a mass of theists.
So, the higher level of being for humankind (use that word more often, Awaken, humankind) will be a level where it will not be necessary to suffer the presence of theists by calling one's self an atheist.
Without theists, one has no reason to be an atheist. Instead, one can simply be.
Heb 11:1 And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction,
Regardless of what the Bible may have suggested, hope and faith have nothing to do with one another.Quote:
Originally posted by Awaken4e1
You guys may need to reevaluate your Atheistic beliefs if you continue to express 'Hope'
Heb 11:1 And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction,
And what would your collaborative evidence be, disproving the Bible's assertions?Quote:
Originally posted by bradybaker
Regardless of what the Bible may have suggested, hope and faith have nothing to do with one another.
This is Man's true nature!
Heb 2:5 For not to messengers did He subject the coming world, concerning which we speak,
Heb 2:6 and one in a certain place did testify fully, saying, `What is man, that Thou art mindful of him, or a son of man, that Thou dost look after him?
Heb 2:7 Thou didst make him some little less than messengers, with glory and honour Thou didst crown him, and didst set him over the works of Thy hands,
Heb 2:8 all things Thou didst put in subjection under his feet,' for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected, and now not yet do we see the all things subjected to him,
Heb 2:9 and him who was made some little less than messengers we see--Jesus--because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death.
Well, Awaken, since you seem to love the dictionary as much as the Bible.
From my OED
hope noun 1 a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen
faith noun 1 complete trust or confidence in someone or something
As you can see, hope cannot be misplaced, since it's just a feeling. Faith, however, goes beyond feelings and can be misplaced.
And, Awaken, I think you were making real progress before, quoting the dictionary and not the bible. It brings you closer to today's parlance and will help far more people understand you.
EVERY DAY, BAAAAY-BEEE! EVERY DAMNED DAY! I just keep getting better and better. Its just the sliver of an atom's diameter daily, but it adds up over time. Kind of like how a running toilet will drain an ocean if you give it long enought.Quote:
Originally posted by The Rev
Will the state of man ever change to a higher level of being?
Everybody else is doing it too. Slip ups here and there, but you've got to look at it from God's point of view, The Eternal Now.
I am The Evolver.
Now theres an oxymoron. They don't include the word moron for nothing.Quote:
A logical atheist[/b]
We have a tradition of recognizing such beings in India, where they are called Avatars and Sadgurus.
My favorite instance of such a Person is Sai Baba of Shirdi (not be be confused with Sai Baba of Puttaparti who is a fake who stole the name Sai Baba to steal of the prestige of that Name)... here is a website: http://www.saibaba.org/saisatc.html
Then there is another favorite -- Ramakrishna -- something of a personal favorite because I once saw him in Dream in which he represented the Cosmic Christ Consciousness. Here is his website: http://www.ramakrishna.org/rmk.htm
I had also seen old Shirdi Sai Baba in Dreams, but that was more in the line of dry instruction.
I'm not entirely sure that the World is now without a single really decent Avataric Sadguru. But the lack can't be suffered for long. In the Bhagavad Gita it is said that an Avatar will appear whenever the World is collapsed into Evil. Certainly, with all of the Republicans and Tories now in charge of the World, we can't help but to suppose the qualification of the basest Evil is now quite met. Why, I should expect the next Avatar any minute now.
And here I am!
You wish.Quote:
Originally posted by Leo+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leo)</div><!--QuoteBegin-ExnineQuote:
Why, I should expect the next Avatar any minute now.[/b]
And here I am!
Well, perhaps that 15 year old boy in Nepal who doesn't eat... he shows alittle promise.Quote:
Originally posted by Ex Nine
And here I am!
Will some one be brave enough to truly answer my question?
For those Atheists, let me ask it in your own language, Will man ever evolve?
Please be specific...
Yes. I believe so.Quote:
Originally posted by Awaken4e1
For those Atheists, let me ask it in your own language, Will man ever evolve?
Please be specific...
But I assume you'll want a meatier answer than that. I doubt humans will further progress by evolving the old-fashioned way (natural selection). But instead with crazy new technology like human genetic engineering, brain uploading, and allsorts of that good sci-fi-like stuff.
Awaken, I already told you! I'm giving you the secrets of heaven, here, and you know I am.
Heaven is when you've reached a state of communion with God which is so purifying and total that you no longer need Him and He no longer exists. That's because you no longer need what will forever be yours. Congratulations. You're an atheist.
When you accept heaven totally, you cease to become a theist. You, like all theists, are afraid of God's love, and of being responsible for ultimate power. You think you have accepted him but you haven't. Instead you have accepted a feeling, a kind of drug, and one that causes hallucinations. In a way you have done the opposite and are evil. You have not accepted God's love, and his power. Instead, you have accepted that you are powerless, and grovel before a King, very much how Satan would expect you to grovel before him.
Should you accept God's love and cease to become a theist, what do you become? You are not anything in particular. There is no name for a way that allows one to go beyond their limits in creativity and power. Instead it is distinguished by what it is not, like the word "unlimited." That is the word, "atheist."
The state of human kind will change when there is no more evil theism. When all the theists disappear, at that point, there will be no more atheists. There will be no more need for people to be atheists! Instead, they can just simply be the life-forms that they are.
The only reason there are atheists is because of people like you. Once people like you either die or evolve, evil will die, there will be no more atheists, and the state of humankind will take a grand and wonderful paradigm shift.
Now, I'm perfectly willing to help you escape from evil. Practice your critical thinking, and practice a form of art other than poetry, for heaven's sake. You'll be well on your way.
The next step from being a Theist, is being as his Father is Divine...(God's Offspring)
Everything after its own kind...So, God produces what man?, no, He produces (God) in His Image...
While the current state of man is something that is found where the sun don't shine. When it is understood how the serpent is to be removed from here. Man will reach a higher level of being, discarding the serpent, and the sun shall shine out of that place where once darkness dwelled.Quote:
Originally posted by awaken
Will some one be brave enough to truly answer my question?
For those on the board of limited understanding about the nature of humanity's evolution I have constructed a diagram:
Now: :cry:
Later: :D
People need to keep in mind that one of the most powerful tools of Evolutionary Selection is near extinction. For Humanity to evolve we really do need a Catastrophic Event which will kill off everybody but those most fit to survive in whatever World remains afterward.
AIDS seems like a very good Evolutionary Filter. Those who can't live without indiscriminate anal intercourse are eliminated from the Future. It really is a Higher Person who can refrain from anal intercourse for the sake of his tomorrow -- all delayed and suspended gratification is intrinsically more Spiritual than animal indulgence.
I am honestly surprised that AIDS has impacted India so extensively. I rather thought better of that population, that the land of Spiritual Philosophy had a higher view than that of disregarding the obvious risks in exchange for the low pleasures of anal intercourse, which understandably is too great a temptation for the ordinary African to forego -- a cynical thought, but well proven out by the demographic facts.
AIDS is spreading via ordinary heterosexual sex too.
err...yeah...spreading way far more wildly than through homosexual actsQuote:
Originally posted by Citrusponge
AIDS is spreading via ordinary heterosexual sex too.
Will man evolve?
well, evolution is happening all the time
every child born, every 1 life created from 2 different sources
it's just incredibly slow (except once every few millenia - when evolution leaps forward :-P )
What you should be worried about, is what happens if man doesn't evolve (or evolve properly)
take pure breed dogs, for example
the proper, natural, in-the-wild scenario is that all dogs are game
hence mongrels
but man's need to fiddle with future offspring far pre-dates modern genetics
Instead, we controlled appearance and behaviour through controlled breeding
So....
1 in 6 Dalmations are deaf
Pit-bulls are naturally (hahaha, irony lives !! ) aggressive
Boxers have nasal restriction problems
Will humans evolve?
Well, god help us if we don't
No.Quote:
Originally posted by Citrusponge
AIDS is spreading via ordinary heterosexual sex too.
The idea that AIDS is spreading by heterosexual sex is misinformation put out by the bungeoning AIDS Industry in order to get the sympathies of ordinary people. At every AIDS Conference, there is always the few naive researchers who try to point out the overwhelming correlations to anal intercourse, and they are wisked off the stage and told to shut up -- that the money will dry up if the main stream population becomes aware that they have nothing to worry about.
For instance, I was once close to an AIDS scare. It seems that a few of the most popular prostitutes on the south side of this one particular small metropolis was found to have AIDS. 600 men showed up to get tested. They were all found to be HIV Negative. So much for heterosexual transmission.
Well, women though, do run a higher risk. In many 3rd World Countries, anal intercourse is engaged in as cheap birth control. In America, with its extraordinarily high rate of prison incarceration, there is the problem of a large percentage of the population being conditioned to enjoying anal intercourse, both giving and receiving. These men may get into heterosexual relationships, but actually prefer the back door to the front. and then my impression of the thoroughly modern woman is that she would not wish to be considered as prudish, and that there is no such thing as being too kinky. Asked to roll over, she will roll over. This explains how heterosexual women are getting AIDS. But men, as long they don't 'roll over' for other men, will likely live a long time. But that may be rarer than is supposed. Again, in Africa, though the men prefer to be heterosexual, when they are very drunk, and it is very late, they take whatever is laying around. I can't help to suspect that the coarse of drunken enjoyments are not similar all around the world to some extent.
Oh dear god :eek:Quote:
Originally posted by Leo Volont
The idea that AIDS is spreading by heterosexual sex is misinformation put out by the bungeoning AIDS Industry in order to get the sympathies of ordinary people.
"The HIV virus is transmitted in body fluids including blood, semen, vaginal fluid and breast milk.
It is most commonly passed on during sexual intercourse, shared use of hypodermic needles, or from mother to child.
It can also be transmitted by blood infusion, but not by ordinary social contact."
Wow. What's it like to live with so much hatred and ignorance, Leo?Quote:
Originally posted by Leo Volont
The idea that AIDS is spreading by heterosexual sex is misinformation put out by the bungeoning AIDS Industry in order to get the sympathies of ordinary people.
Yeah, what are you, a homofobic? besides a facist wich seems to be out of the question :?Quote:
Wow. What's it like to live with so much hatred and ignorance, Leo?[/b]
How's this for ignorance?...
The AIDS virus is 28 times smaller than the pore of an latex condom...
so, If you use a condom, 'Know this 'You aresafe from AIDS.Quote:
NOT[/b]
Using a condom to fight against AIDs, is like trying to fight against AIds, well with a hole in you condom, because that is exactly what you are doing!
That statement has about as much validity as, well, the bible!Quote:
Originally posted by Awaken4e1
How's this for ignorance?...
The AIDS virus is 28 times smaller than the pore of an latex condom...
so, If you use a condom, 'Know this 'You aresafe from AIDS.Quote:
NOT
Using a condom to fight against AIDs, is like trying to fight against AIds, well with a hole in you condom, because that is exactly what you are doing![/b]
"Eric Estrada"
GRAPHICAL ILLUSTRATION OF THE COMPARATIVE SIZES OF LATEX CONDOM PORES AND THE AIDS VIRUSQuote:
That statement has about as much validity as, well, the bible![/b]
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Other comparisons that might be useful as demonstrators would be the comparison of a grapefruit (the condom pore) and a pea (the HIV virus). In a comparison at this scale, a sperm cell's head would be three feet in diameter, and the cell itself would be one hundred feet long.
As stated above, the sperm head is 50 microns in diameter, and the cell itself is about 750 microns long, including tail. The AIDS virus head is about one-tenth of a micron in diameter. When the length of the sperm cell itself is taken into account, the sperm cell is about half a million times more massive than the AIDS virus.
The comparison is equivalent to placing a field mouse weighing one-fifth of an ounce next to a three-ton bull elephant.
"Skin" Condoms.
So-called "skin" condoms, which account for most of the condoms used in the United States today, are much less reliable than latex condoms. They are made from part of a lamb's large intestine. Instead of the pore-free barrier presented by a latex condom, the "skin" appears as a fiber latticework under 30,000 power magnification, with some pores up to 1.5 microns in diameter. This size is smaller than sperm, but more than ten times larger than an AIDS virus and 25 times larger than the hepatitis-B virus. However, since a "skin" condom is composed of multiple layers, it may be impervious to these viruses.
Studies and Inspections.
Of four major laboratory studies performed so far, three show "skin" condom impermeability to viruses, and one shows permeability.[2]
FDA inspectors have been conducting unannounced tests of domestic condoms at factories and imported condoms at their ports of entry since April of 1987. If more than 4 in 1,000 condoms fail the "pinhole test," the entire lot is destroyed.
As of July of 1988, more than 15 million condoms had been destroyed because their lots had too many defects. This is about ten percent of all domestic condoms and twenty percent of all imported condom lots tested.
It should be highly significant to those people who value their lives that the FDA only tests about seven percent (one in fourteen) of all condom lots.
Actually, I have to agree with Leo on this one.
It really is part of the economics of the AIDS medical industry to exagerate the heterosexual side of things. Its similar to the anti-smoking campain saying ludicris things about secondhand smoke. It really is amazing to me how many basically good people can always justify the means by a good end.
A tangent here. I'm of the opinion that homosexuality is a strong indicator of reincarnation. Here's my reasoning behind this statement.
Let's say homosexuality is a genetic thing. By its very definition, it'll have a tendancy to kill itself off over time. However, if homosexuality is part of a person's spiritual makeup AND reincarnation is true, you could keep homosexuality up around pretty consistant levels over the course of human history.
Considering that 2% of the population is homosexual, I think this is a good indicator that reincarnation is a true principle.
Thoughts, anyone?
Unless the gene for homosexuality is common to all humans, but is only expressed on a small percentage of occassions.
Or, it could be caused by a small mutation to an otherwise dominant gene.
Both scenarios are clearly more likely than reincarnation.
Speaking in evolutionary terms, AIDS is not a good filter of people who have anal-intercourse for a few reasons:Quote:
Originally posted by Leo
AIDS seems like a very good Evolutionary Filter. Those who can't live without indiscriminate anal intercourse are eliminated from the Future. It really is a Higher Person who can refrain from anal intercourse for the sake of his tomorrow -- all delayed and suspended gratification is intrinsically more Spiritual than animal indulgence.
- AIDS occurs in many ways other than anal sex. Any form of sexual intercourse, sharing IV needles, breastfeeding, blood transfusions, skin grafts, artificial insemination.
- Anal sex does not mean you will get aids. Unprotected anal sex with an infected person means you might get AIDS.
While anal sex does carry a higher risk of transmission than vaginal sex if you look at all the cases of AIDS today those who received it through anal-sex you'll find that it is insignificant. Africa is currently in an AIDS epidemic, and unless you're seriously suggesting that all those men/women/children got it through anal sex - then there is no evidence to suggest that AIDS \"eliminates those who can't live without anal intercourse\" (paraphrase).
This has been demonstrated false numerous times. Organic condoms do not always stop aids, but latex condoms do. As you can see in a nice article here, a nice sum-up by the CDC here and a nicer article with lots of shiny references hereQuote:
Originally posted by Leo+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leo)</div>You think this might clue you in that anal sex does not have the huge impact that you think it does. But no, you've arbitrarily decided that anal sex is something evil/immoral so you desperately want to blame a horrible disease on what could only ever be (rationally) labelled as an amoral sexual act.Quote:
I am honestly surprised that AIDS has impacted India so extensively. I rather thought better of that population, that the land of Spiritual Philosophy had a higher view than that of disregarding the obvious risks in exchange for the low pleasures of anal intercourse, which understandably is too great a temptation for the ordinary African to forego -- a cynical thought, but well proven out by the demographic facts. [/b]
There's a question, just what is your objection to anal sex?
Again, you portray an amoral sexual act as bad (criminals do it! GASP!). Please show how anal-sex is bad, given that is not the most prevalent cause of AIDS, and that two uninfected people can do it and not spontaneously develop AIDS.Quote:
Originally posted by Leo+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leo)</div>This is not a problem with anal-sex, this is a problem with the lack of proper birth control in developing countries. If they had condoms they could have vaginal and anal (ok maybe they'd need some lube as well) sex all they wanted.Quote:
Well, women though, do run a higher risk. In many 3rd World Countries, anal intercourse is engaged in as cheap birth control.[/b]
<!--QuoteBegin-Leo@
In America, with its extraordinarily high rate of prison incarceration, there is the problem of a large percentage of the population being conditioned to enjoying anal intercourse, both giving and receiving
<!--QuoteBegin-Awaken
How's this for ignorance?...
The AIDS virus is 28 times smaller than the pore of an latex condom...
so, If you use a condom, 'Know this 'You are
Quote:
NOT
safe from AIDS.
Using a condom to fight against AIDs, is like trying to fight against AIds, well with a hole in you condom, because that is exactly what you are doing!
It could just be a recessive gene, wouldn't that explain the same phenomena without the spiritual baggage? This is implying that there is one gene that determines sexuality though. There could also be another explanation (which I had a fun drunk conversation with a cognitive-science friend about). A genetic trait such as sexuality might have hundreds of genes contributing to it. Any one of these genes active wont mean a thing, but the combination of however-many means that this trait is active. So you could see how two heterosexual gene pools might combine to get the right mix.Quote:
Originally posted by the last link+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the last link)</div>I wondering if you ever research these claims before you make them?Quote:
Laboratory and epidemiologic studies have provided information about the effectiveness of condoms in preventing STD. Laboratory tests have shown latex condoms to be effective mechanical barriers to HIV (1), herpes simplex virus (HSV) (2-4), cytomegalovirus (CMV) (5), hepatitis B virus (HBV) (6), Chlamydia trachomatis (2), and Neisseria gonorrhoeae (4). Latex condoms blocked passage of HBV and HIV in laboratory studies, but natural membrane condoms (made from lamb cecum), which contain small pores, did not (6-8). The experimental conditions employed in these studies may be more extreme than those encountered in actual use; however, they suggest that latex condoms afford greater protection against viral STD than do natural membrane condoms. [/b]
<!--QuoteBegin-sokar
Considering that 2% of the population is homosexual, I think this is a good indicator that reincarnation is a true principle.
-spoon
Just to go back a ways. There's a flaw in this thinking: In order for human kind to evolve the traditional way, humans will have to lose their social nature. Because humans are more or less social creatures, tending to stick in groups rather than go out solo into the world, humans often work together for a mutual benefit. This means helping the sick to become better and making sure that those unable to work can still survive. In part, it's also due to our intelligence. Because humans are intelligent enough to develop medicine and surgery, we aid the failing genes in survival. By doing this, we stop (or at least dramatically slow) traditional evolution, instead opting for technological evolution.Quote:
Originally posted by Leo
People need to keep in mind that one of the most powerful tools of Evolutionary Selection is near extinction. For Humanity to evolve we really do need a Catastrophic Event which will kill off everybody but those most fit to survive in whatever World remains afterward.
Some world-wide catastrophe might speed up evolution in humankind somewhat, but it wouldn't be a significant amount. Once again, because of our intelligent and social behavior, humans seek other humans. After a significant disaster, human kind might remain scattered and in small groups for a while, and this is the ideal setting for evolution. But social behavior would take over as soon as the people regained their stability, and the small groups would begin to join and meld. This process wouldn't take long. Even under extreme circumstances, with all modern technology gone and small groups isolated by large oceans, it would only be a few hundred years before the small groups began to reunite. Evolution works on a much slower time-scale. In order for a species to evolve a significant amount, it would take much more than a few hundred years. So any miniscule amount of evolutionary progress made while separated wouldn't be enough to define the two groups as seperate species. Once the groups joined back together, the cross-breeding would negate the progress by all groups, bringing them back to the status quo. At that point, social behavior would've become progressed enough to once again inhibit traditional evolution by preventing weaker genes from leaving the system.
Those who live by the sword will actually die by it, so it's no use tsen.
homosexuality is a laerned behavior....as is all sexual behavior....Quote:
Originally posted by bradybaker
Unless the gene for homosexuality is common to all humans, but is only expressed on a small percentage of occassions.
Or, it could be caused by a small mutation to an otherwise dominant gene.
Both scenarios are clearly more likely than reincarnation.
I'd love for you to back that up.Quote:
Originally posted by Awaken4e1
homosexuality is a laerned behavior....as is all sexual behavior....
Also, who teaches seagulls to be gay? Or horses...or ducks...or chickens...or tigers...