Thread: Why a 'soul' is not likely.

Originally posted by Neruo
What part of the 2 still living, still thinking brains would be the Soul? Would there be 2 souls? Where would the souls go in 'heaven'? Would the person come back together?

First we have to logically consider the essence of the soul. Our soul is an extension of our morality, which is defined by our actions. It doesn't reside per se in our brains, but rather everywhere at once. If our vibrations are in line with dimensions connected to heaven then it would not matter how many times you divide that soul, all of its parts would still go to heaven.

Upon entering they will not be anything less than pure in heart, and will have learnt much from their experience. This is speaking on the physical plane. When the entity has made soul contact, and freed themself from the pull of matter, nothing will disturb their joy, as they then know the will of the soul as their own. From this connection they will know the truth and it will make them free.

P.S. - My "truth" will set you free. Embrace your Oneness. Logic and Intelligence is the key.

~post inspired by Nirvana

What if one side of the brain would commit a sin. Like murder some one (if capable)
The other would be a good... brain.

Where would the 'soul' go then?

Originally posted by Neruo
What if one side of the brain would commit a sin. Like murder some one (if capable)
The other would be a good... brain.

Where would the 'soul' go then?

Let's dissect this teaching: When we die, our soul stands in judgment immediately. We will have to account for our lives, for the good that we have done and for the sins we have committed. We call this the particular judgment because it is particular to each person. If we are free of all sin and the hurt caused by sin, we immediately will be welcomed into Heaven, where we will enjoy the beatific vision, seeing God face to face. If we have died with venial sins or the hurt caused by sin, our Lord in His love and mercy will first purge and heal the soul in the place called Purgatory; after this purgation and healing, our soul will then be welcomed into Heaven. However, if we have died rejecting God, with mortal sins and with no remorse for those mortal sins, then we will have damned ourselves to Hell; the firm rejection of God that we made in this life, will continue on in the next. This teaching is substantiated by our Lord's declaration to the repentant thief, St. Dismas: "This day you will be with me in paradise"...unless of course your not Catholic, then your soul will never set foot past the pearly gates.

~post inspired by Leo

lol you didn't even awnser just spammed me with religious bullshit.

Did YOU make that stuff up? Think outside the box. I am willing to accept the change of there being a devine being, allthough the change seems quite small to me.

There are no facts, and god certainly doesn't look like a fact.


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But this topic is about souls: I think the word soul and mind are kind of the same, it's a matter of how you see it. Wether the soul can or can not move outside of the body, if the person is alive it's the same as mind, spirit.

My piont however is that becouse there is not a point in brain whitch forms the person completely. Our minds are made up of millions of parts of brain. There is not really one part that is more 'the person's soul/mind' then another part. The mind/soul is all the parts combined, however the parts are not fully intergrated, they can exist besides each other.

So the 'mind/soul' could allso be put apart, what makes the difinition of the soul being indestructable false.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body. ~ 2 Corinthians 4.16-5.10


~ post inspired by the Rev

You still are qouting stuff from the bible, or something some people wrote some time ago. The bible is completely changed in 2000 years aswell. The 4 ave--blabla's were written 40 years after christ died. There used to be more then 100 of those story but only 4 were chose.

The bible has been a subjective irraliable source. Allso used as a meaning of manipulation for centuries.

If you couldn't qoute the bible, could you even aswnser the question?! Think up your own awnser!

k? =)

To be honest with you...I don't believe in souls, the afterlife, god(s) or Oneness.

I'm just getting you conditioned for some of the responses you're going to recieve from some of the theist on board here.

Each of my replies we're inspired by one of the Three Stooges we have here at DV.

Originally posted by InTheMoment
To be honest with you...I don't believe in souls, the afterlife, god(s) or Oneness.

I'm just getting you conditioned for some of the responses you're going to recieve from some of the theist on board here.

Each of my replies we're inspired by one of the Three Stooges we have here at DV.

lol. You were messing with me =)

Good, i would feel sorry for you if you were really THAT one-side. Damn man, I tough you were more one-side then me!

Originally posted by Neruo


lol. You were messing with me =)

Good, i would feel sorry for you if you were really THAT one-side. Damn man, I tough you were more one-side then me!

Trust me, there are some on this site that really are THAT one-sided.

However, I find myself more in sync with your line of reasoning (based on some of your other post). So cheers to that, mate!

Originally posted by InTheMoment
To be honest with you...I don't believe in souls, the afterlife, god(s) or Oneness.

I'm just getting you conditioned for some of the responses you're going to recieve from some of the theist on board here.

Each of my replies we're inspired by one of the Three Stooges we have here at DV.

Oh, thank the gods! I was worried we'd lost you when you started talking like Nirvana. Then you quoted the friendly neighbourhood Rev. and I started to get suspicious.

I have more to say, but for now I must go to work.

Originally posted by Neruo
There are ceveral medical proofs of people living with a hole in their brains, sometimes people even missing a large part of their brain. The people however would have to learn to write again, or speak again, or would suddenly have a change of personality.

In theory, 50% of the brain could easialy compensate for the missing 50%. If you would devide a living brain in half and keep it medically alive, maybe even letting 2 people live with it (not really ethically, but it's just a theory. btw they once switched the head of 2 monkeys so I bet they can).

What part of the 2 still living, still thinking brains would be the Soul? Would there be 2 souls? Where would the souls go in 'heaven'? Would the person come back together?

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Bisides that a 'soul' could not 'travel' to heaven. Unless there would be a paralel dimension and really, there is No way that's true. Becouse then there would have to be an afterlife-dimension for every religion. Christianity has no advantage in plausibility at all compairing to any other religion.

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It depends on how you define the soul. I think it is pretty clear that the soul that the Abrahamic religions describe is pretty much impossible, at least in a material universe, but the kind of soul a Buddhist or maybe a Hindu would believe in makes more sense. There is no need for a soul to have brain functions if it is merely the subjective percieving entity in us.

A soul is not the same as a consciousness or a mind, and what you say alone doesn't really disprove anything. If we see the soul as a set of morals or a essence of personality, it may well be that when you do something to fundamentally alter that personality, such as splitting the brain, the soul simply leaves the body. The person then becomes nothing more than a slave of the brain, and the memories and skills it has retained.

That's only one way that splitting brains and a soul can coexist. I'm not saying I believe a soul exist, neither am I saying that I don't, but there's simply no reason to assume either because people can have serious brain damage and continue to live.

There is suppose to be like a 'silver cord' they call it, that connects your etheric body to the physical. I think Jalexxi (awesome name and avatar) is on the right track, however the body cannot survive without this essence, it just can't work. Depending on the condition of the body this cord will either stay connected in a comma yet as in sleep the etheric body will drift out. Technically one is still alive until the cord breaks.

Everything is an interplay of spirit and matter. But a certain entity/soul will not subject itself to conditions that it sees as inappropriate or unnessasary for it's growth, On the day of your "death" you will see who's in charge anyway. It's not the body. The body is nothing but a vechile.

LMAO @ InTheMoment

Funny shit!

If you've been reading some of my other posts, particularly in the religious section, the following statement may shock you:

I believe there may be such a thing as a soul.

If that didn't throw you off, maybe this will:

At the same time, I agree that it is unlikely.

I think that it works like this: The soul controls the mind, which controls the body. The body interacts with the world, sends the stimuli to the brain, where it is interpreted, and alterations to the soul are made accordingly.

Originally posted by Neruo
...What part of the 2 still living, still thinking brains would be the Soul? Would there be 2 souls? Where would the souls go in 'heaven'? Would the person come back together?

Well, seems to me that if souls do exist as I believe, the soul would probably continue to interact with the two halves of the brain as normal, save for the fact that it is now operating two bodies. I would assume that the soul would never really be physically "divided". Honestly, though, I have no idea.

Then again, if the soul were divided, I would think that the two halves would just become independent. Much like the brain itself. They would be treated as individuals, not two halves of the same whole. Since I really have no idea on how a soul would work, again, I am not sure.

P.S.

I would like to clear one thing up before I end this post.
Before I get pounced with statements like "but merk!!1 u dant haev ne proof taht there iz a soole!!!1!!one", I'd just like to say: I know. I know that I have no evidence at all. Not a shred. In fact, one could probably find a lot of evidence against this. I am not working under the assumption that I am right. In fact, I am working under the assumption that I am probably wrong. You might wonder why I continue to believe this in spite of all that I have mentioned. Honestly, I don't know why. Perhaps deep down I am just clinging to the hope that there is a life after death. Perhaps it's merely due to the fact that I've grown up around a family that shares such beliefs.

I really don't know why, but it's what I believe.

I myself dont believe there to be a soul . Because if humans had souls , then that would be admitting that we were created by a higher being . And i dont have any evidence to believe that . I can only think that ones conscience may be misconstrued as a soul , its basically something in our brain that makes us feel guilty if we do something wrong . I have no idea why the human brain would have evolved to include this as a aspect of the human brain , maybe as a helping hand to keep social groups functioning in society .

Other than our conciousness , and our conscience , i cant think of anything else that would characterise our soul . Someone mentioned morals , but that is just a conditioned belief system . Morals must be learnt , we arent all born with them .

Originally posted by Mark75
stuff

but merk!!1 u dant haev ne proof taht there iz a soole!!!1!!one

lol. =) j/k. Intresting that you find it unlikely yet you think there is such a thing. Well at least you do think about it, and admit you don't have a clue. No one has a clue! =D

You can believe in a soul al you like, maybe just use it as an tool for better understanding of the human mind, like using colord ball as atoms, a tool to simplified something that is currently un-graspable. As long if you don't start saying ' Oh teh noez!1!! tehrz a zoul!1!! I rly knoez 1000% sure!111! cuz I laik hert ppl sai so!1111" it's fine to believe in a soul.

You never know, there might be a thing like a soul. Maybe not in the religous way of the word, but still something that might resemble a soul.

<3

And lol I ALLWAYS fall for pranks. I never expect that people are messing with me ^^

First off...

Originally posted by Nirvana Starseed+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nirvana Starseed)</div>

Jalexxi (awesome name and avatar)[/b]

Thanks! And now on to some things I noticed in some of the posts. I'm just acting as a catalyst for the discussion here, as I have no opinion on whether a soul does or does not exist.

Originally posted by Nirvana Starseed@
however the body cannot survive without this essence, it just can't work.

I disagree. A body can work from a purely mechanistic standpoint, without any essence to guide it. Chemical A leads to reaction B in the brain, which leads to action C by the body. Now, this is not the way it has to be, but a body can function like this. There's no way to tell if someone is acting out of their own free will, or by an advanced behavioural program. The presence of a soul within anyone but yourself is impossible to prove, and moreover, not nessecary to explain their actions. If a soul for some reason spontaneously left a body, chances are you wouldn't notice anything.

<!--QuoteBegin-Darkmatic
Because if humans had souls , then that would be admitting that we were created by a higher being .

This is not true. A soul does not have to have divine origin, it may be simply an eternal consciousness or essence of some sort. The real question is whether there is something beyond the human body and mind, something that is the essence of either, or both. Is a human simply a mind stuffed into a body, or does something else, something eternal come into play?

I also want to raise the question of souls in animals. Do animals have souls? Do they differ from human ones?

Well you can't really prove anything either way. Unless you want to kill yourself but then you can't really show that to anyone. Unless of course you come back as a ghost and haunt them. But then no one would believe that person anyway, and we would all think hes nuts.

Personally I really don't think its worth argueing over because it doesn't matter. When you die you either go some place else or your existence is wiped out of the universe never to be seen again. The second one kind of sucks but if its true, your not going to care because your just a pile of dirt.

Personally if I didn't believe in any type of soul at all, I would spend the rest of my life working on a way to become immortal. If I take really good care of myself, I could get 80 years of research in, then with any advancements we make to prolong life while looking for immortallity, I might be able to push that up even farther. With all the technology we have today, and will gain in the next 100 years, I think it might be doable. Especially if someone spent 90% of their waking life working on it.

Originally posted by Darkmatic
I myself dont believe there to be a soul . Because if humans had souls , then that would be admitting that we were created by a higher being .

I really don't see how that follows at all.

I had the idea the other day that not everyone has souls. Only certain people who seek an overall understanding of the world independantly have souls. The rest of humanity are just animals with the ability to talk and learn behavior better than other animals. Of course the above isn't the defining aspect of a soul, but the aspect that is most apparent in people. I don't know if anyone's ever considered that not everyone might have souls.

Originally posted by Belisarius


I really don't see how that follows at all.

I had the idea the other day that not everyone has souls. Only certain people who seek an overall understanding of the world independantly have souls. The rest of humanity are just animals with the ability to talk and learn behavior better than other animals. Of course the above isn't the defining aspect of a soul, but the aspect that is most apparent in people. I don't know if anyone's ever considered that not everyone might have souls.

So your saying you think a soul must be earnt ? What defining aspects would one need to earn a soul , and who decides whether one is worthy of a soul ? Or is it something in they body which when thought about higher plains of existance is stimulated , some part of the body allows a soul to enter a body .

Then there must be souls waiting for everyone when they are born , wating to be "activated" . I find it not so likely , i think everyone would have to be on a level playing field when it comes to souls . I think if we have souls , we are born with them , but maybe to get in touch with your soul you need to exercise your brain a bit as its all about understanding .

I think the funniest thing is that man believes is that if it can’t stimulate the five known senses, it can’t be real. When there are a limitless number of indiscernible things in this Super-verse that the senses of man will never know. And to assume that only sensible things are real is an insight into the inadequate reaches of the physical senses.

There are innumerable levels of existence, not yet discovered by man given these derisory perceptions. The day comes, which will bring all of Mankind to the understanding of the whole of God’s knowledge, and boy it ain’t going to be as man thinks it will be i.e. even as the church believes.

The Rev.

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
I think the funniest thing is that man believes is that if it can’t stimulate the five known senses, it can’t be real. When there are a limitless number of indiscernible things in this Super-verse that the senses of man will never know. And to assume that only sensible things are real is an insight into the inadequate reaches of the physical senses.

There are innumerable levels of existence, not yet discovered by man given these derisory perceptions. The day comes, which will bring all of Mankind to the understanding of the whole of God’s knowledge, and boy it ain’t going to be as man thinks it will be i.e. even as the church believes.

The Rev.

And how do you all know this so certainly again?

Originally posted by Neruo


And how do you all know this so certainly again?

Because God's spirit within me quickens the knowledge in me...It bears witness to the truth.