Is God Omnibenevolent?

I've read quite a few of the posts here, but I can't find a point to really latch onto and comment on. I hope you'll excuse me if I share my views on "Omnibenevolent" as it pertains to God.

The quick answer is "Yes, God is omnibenevolent." How can this be while we are taught by the prophets in all scripture that there is a Heaven and a Hell? How can we reconcile these two apparently divergent opinions?

Firstly, it is my opinion that the "eternalness" of Heaven and Hell are due to their being in force for eternity, that they are indeed eternal principles. The Christians (as well as the Muslims) have been taught incorrectly that the eternity of Hell and Heaven has to do with a person being consigned there for all of Eternity. I beleive this to be false.

The Buddhists give a much better rendition of the concepts of Heaven and Hell, or rather positive feedback for choices a person makes, and negative feedback for incorrect choices. From this perspective, we see that Heaven is a state enjoyed by making correct choice and Hell is the result of making improper choice.

This is a simplification of Heaven and Hell, but I think its an instructive one.

Returning to the "omnibenevolent" question, the problem with human beings is that they do not see themselves as God sees us. God is interested not in our comfort but in our eternal progression. If suffering negative consequences will make us better (ie. help us progress) then he figures it "benevolent" to institute natural law to provide those negative consequences. To reward constructive choices, he provides positive consequences.

Unfortunately, this feedback (that is necessary for our Self's to learn) is seen as "Happy God" and "Angry God". It is always just God. He shows his omnibenevolence by setting up the Universe as he does to teach us, sometimes with the stick other times with the carot, not according to His whims, but according to "free will".

Free will is not a free ride. God is the Master of giving us enough rope to hang ourselves if we choose to do so. The good news is that Justice is in effect and even the most heinous crimes can eventually be worked out, karmically speaking. This is just logical. For God not to do this would make him a God I would rebel against as he would meet out infinite punishment for finite sin. This is not Justice.

I beleive that as World Religions grasp the oversimplicity of the Heaven/Hell concept that they can and will be brought into the age of reason, that either incorrect or oversimplified concepts of Heaven and Hell (or speaking Buddhically, painful or preasurable Karma) will be reconcilled by that which agrees with the reasonable mind.

Good post. Your going to put me to shame..........all I have done is argued a fair bit.

Nirvana,

I'm glad to see you, Brother. I am glad in my heart that I see you using Master Khul's advice of "use-demand-receive". You came here in initiation (of your own free will you came to this Kurukshetra, that is to say "battlefield", to stand or fall as the case may be) and "USED" your own energy to fight. Then you "DEMANDED" by coming to the Keyster board and asked for assistance. I am here to hopefully render assistance, so that you might "RECEIVE" that which you need to further your self-appointed task.

Since you called me here, you are Initiate and I am Disciple in this context. I will seek to assist you in giving your fellow posters answers to their question, or at least my opinions on the matter. I hope that mutual benifit is in store for all of us.

It is good to see you, sir.

I see that you have brought up the principle of Soul Contact. The posters bring up valid points against the acceptance of your opinions on this subject. I will say a few words on what I know of this, hopefully shedding additional light on the subject of Soul Contact.

Spoon said: If you want to state that there is something as objective as "one true interpretation" of the bible, then you'd better be prepared to offer something more objective than "use your intelligence" as a method at arriving at this interpretation. A method that might make sense, from within belief, is the one that awaken proposed - "the holy spirit guide your interpretation". Unfortunately, as I've pointed out, the holy spirit seems to guide people to different answers, so this method is invalidated.

This is a valid arguement, in my opinion. How is it that what Nirvana says about "absolute truth" and "soul contact" be true in opposition to the logic of Spoon?

Soul contact, which is the same thing as talked about in Christianity as "being led by the Spirit", is an interesting science.

Soul contact proper is the formation of a stream of communication between the concrete mind and the higher states of consciousness WITHIN the same person. The reason why soul contact works isn't because of the "bridge" (called the Antesthkarina, sorry about the spelling, my Hindu isn't that great :D ) itself but by access of the higher chakric functions. I'm just being technical here...using the term soul contact in your context, Nirvana, is entirely proper.

The lowest of the higher functions accessed by forming the bridge is acheivement of a Buddhic state, which is a conduit of spiritual information. It is theortically possible to move information from one being to another along this "plane". The fact that God Himself is also buddhically connected to everybody on the planet gives the highest form of intelligence available to all of us. I suppose that prayer works along this plane of the soul.

The difficulty that arises with buddhic communication is that the information along it is in a "principle"-based format, rather than a linear method of communication like email or telephone.

The discrepancy that Spoon sees in relying on "the Spirit" or "Soul Contact" is a symptom of this "limitation" that the information is principle-based. I disagree with your assertion, Nirvana that soul contact leads to a formation of an absolute opinion on a matter, as soul-contact provides the prinicples that must be "rendered" based on a given situation. Since we are all in different situations, the soul contact is identical, but how we choose to render it, or rather "concretize" it, or translate those impressions or intuitions is just as based on the concrete mind as it is on the spiritual information itself.

While it is true what you say, Nirvana, that part of the discrepancy is due to varying abilities to make soul contact, a lot of it has to do with the rendering process. For example, let's say that there are two parties. One of them is mentally convinced that a piece of land is theirs (the country of Israel comes to mind) and when they make soul contact, based upon their mind set, the soul contact will respond with "If it is yours, then the people who currently occupy it are theives and it is your right to demand from them that which they have stolen." This is a true principle.

The other party may see the other party coming to push them off their land, and through soul contact as well based on their self-questioning "How should I rightly respond to this situation?" soul contact will respond with "If another person is trying to hurt you, you have the right to defend youself." Another true principle. The principle of trusting soul contact is 100% in effect.

However, the physical plane realization of these two forms of soul contact results in a blood war. How is this possible, given both parties used soul contact? By the example I have given, you can see how the questions asked and the responses given by SC resulted in a difference of opinion.

Spoon is correct. Nirvana is correct. Christianity is correct. Hopefully I've managed to connect some of the dots here.

Nirvana said: Good post. Your going to put me to shame..........all I have done is argued a fair bit.

It is not my intention to run rough-shod over you, Brother. You are Initiate in the context of www.dreamviews.com and I am your Disciple, having responded to your CALLING on the Keysters. I consider myself a passable disciple; I am here to serve.

The best way to learn to be a good Initiate is to have a powerful Disciple. Its rough on the personality, as you have just said, but you will learn quickly and this is good.

I have read quite a few of your posts, and from what have read so far, you are speaking Truth. Where you have been attacked is only on those points that have not been more fully elaborated upon. My point is that I can assist by filling in some of the gaps in your logic, gaps that others have capitalized upon.

It is your responsability to lead the assault, an attack not on people, but on Ignorance (or as the Hindu's say Avidya). I have your back.

I will disagree when you say something that is contrary to my opinion, but accept my apologies in advance. Based on what you have been saying, I see that all I will need to do is clarify and perhaps add some logical points of my own. If your purpose here is increased light, then I think you will be pleased with my input. Together we will stand or fall.

I have seen some places where I would like to post, but I would like to play only the role of Dean's Disciple in this venue. Where you attack, I will follow and assist. That is to say, I will scan these subboard within this board for your messages and attempt to cooperate with you in supporting the truths you present. I will try to limit my support only to those questions and teachings you present.

You know that I like to play fool on Keysters. I do this because I consider that my "home base" and in the training area, its fun to joke around, have Ruth make fun of me, etc. etc. We'll post to the Keysters occationally how we are "Busting a few Faithbuster heads" I'm sure and have a few brewskis, but here its business. And when it comes to business, especially what we feel is God's business, I try to be the consumate professional (with a few jokes thrown in so it doesn't get stale, of course).

I hope that I can say a few things that will help you in your search for knowledge, but time will tell. The goal here is not to advance personality agendas but to be a "light-bringer".

Keep going as you are, Initiate. I feel you are doing well. I have your back. Go forward and I will follow and struggle with you. And keep scrapping, its pretty funny and I love a good laugh!

If we get in a fix, you'll call to the Keysters and even if JJ himself has to come out (hopefully he will Disciple under you, if he does) we'll get these issues presented in a way that is conducive to teaching truth, and learning a bit too (there are some facinatingly smart people here I've found).

Feel free to contact me outside of these forums if you want me to do something, even if it is that you find my presence with you not to your liking. I will disengage if it is your wish.

You guys still haven't asked the real question.

Which is whether or not God is "Omniomni."

X9, God is not omniomni. The All is the only thing that is omniomni. Read some books on hermetism. Makes you smarter.

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Originally posted by ptahsokar
X9, God is not omniomni. The All is the only thing that is omniomni. Read some books on hermetism. Makes you smarter.

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I did. And it only did marginally so.

Read books on something else. Anything else. That always makes you smarter.

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Originally posted by Ex Nine
Read books on something else. Anything else. That always makes you smarter.

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I am glad.

However, I once read a book that had a guy like Fabio with his shirt off on the cover (it was wedged between the arm and the seat cushion of my Mom's Lazy Boy) and just a few paragraphs of it almost made me fail the grade I was currently in. It just drained me.

It looks like there are exceptions to every rule, but I do agree with your assertion that reading makes one smarter.

You think failing grades is a marker for unintelligence?

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Originally posted by Ex Nine
You think failing grades is a marker for unintelligence?

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Let me share with you something that I have observed, X9, my boy. (And yes, I said m'boy to get you goat. Not only am I a goat but I enjoy the getting of them as well.)

Failing of grades is indicative of one of two things, either low intelligence or high intelligence. So yes I agree with both the letter and spirit of you question.

Have you also noticed how parents are rather dismayed when they have a child of remarkably low intelligence? Strangely, few parents are overjoyed when they have a child of remarkably high intelligence. In fact, if parents were entirely honest with themselves, they would definately choose having an idiot for a son or daughter rather than a genius. Its true that parents want a legacy of an accomplished child, but only to a certain point.

This line of reasoning makes me think of Lucifer.

Funny how the Advesary the tricker of Adam and Eve is held with such great contempt by mankind. The mysteries teach that Adam and Eve was the temporary splitting of the androgenous God of this World. Lucifer is a pretty smart cookie for tricking a God (even an amnesiac, seperated, humanized God).

And yet every time someone comes along with a brilliant new idea, a quantum leap forward in perspective, humanity always shouts "You're of the Devil." Strangely, this is entirely true, the "Devil" being an Angel of Light, or rather the "Light-Bringer", PHOSPHEROS.

My point here, X9? Don't be too smart...you'll get stoned for it...or at least fail a few grades. Light will warm you but too much of it burns and too brightly anhihilates.

And another thing, X9. Beware people who try to kiss your ass. The kissing of asses is always for the purpose of getting you to do what they want you to do.

BTW, I like the close correlation between you style of humor and your Avatar Icon. The picture adds a little more umpha to your deceptively deadpan humor.

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Originally posted by ptahsokar
And another thing, X9. Beware people who try to kiss your ass. The kissing of asses is always for the purpose of getting you to do what they want you to do.

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Somebody should warn Nirvana.

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Originally posted by R.Carter
Somebody should warn Nirvana.

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Ah. Yer a quick one, R.Carter.

BTW, I like your Icon as well rather the catch phrase on it. The picture is a good rendition of the face my ass makes about a day and a half after eating habenaros.

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Originally posted by ptahsokar



BTW, I like your Icon as well rather the catch phrase on it. The picture is a good rendition of the face my ass makes about a day and a half after eating habenaros.

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You should smell my breath. You could draw the same parallel. :loveyou:

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Originally posted by ptahsokar
My point here, X9? Don't be too smart...you'll get stoned for it...or at least fail a few grades. Light will warm you but too much of it burns and too brightly anhihilates.

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The singular timeliness of this is inversely related to its singular wisdom, Sokar (minus the mythos, of course). I just took the last exam of my last class of my last year of schooling ever, yesterday.

It would have been nice to have realized this when I was younger. You know. Before I failed all those classes.


Here's hoping I don't fail the ones I just tried! :)

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Originally posted by Ex Nine


I just took the last exam of my last class of my last year of schooling ever, yesterday.

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Congrats!

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Originally posted by R.Carter
Somebody should warn Nirvana.

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If you feel this is of your concern, it is your mission. Here is my instructions to carry out this great warning.

Let him not take with him his wallet, or his bags, nor cell phone or house keys. He should not worry about these things. But instead go to the top of the great mountain on the west. And he shall see an orange tree. He should then get a orange off the tree, the best one he can find, and if time permits the pine-apple situated to the far right of the orange tree. And throw these down the mountain.

Then he must go quickly to the mountain on the other side. And he will then see me. Warn me about this.....a quick warning not a slow one. For my time is not unlimited. If I think he is worthy, I will then reveal from my jacket, which will be black, (it it is raining it will be a leather one) A mysterious green bottle with a message in it. That will thank him greatly for his concern, and also contain a few photos of him throwing the fruit down the mountain.

This shall be known as the great warning of R.Carter, for he is the choosen one. (he suggested it)

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Originally posted by Nirvana Starseed


If you feel this is of your concern, it is your mission. Here is my instructions to carry out this great warning.

Let him not take with him his wallet, or his bags, nor cell phone or house keys. He should not worry about these things. But instead go to the top of the great mountain on the west. And he shall see an orange tree. He should then get a orange off the tree, the best one he can find, and if time permits the pine-apple situated to the far right of the orange tree. And throw these down the mountain.

Then he must go quickly to the mountain on the other side. And he will then see me. Warn me about this.....a quick warning not a slow one. For my time is not unlimited. If I think he is worthy, I will then reveal from my jacket, which will be black, (it it is raining it will be a leather one) A mysterious green bottle with a message in it. That will thank him greatly for his concern, and also contain a few photos of him throwing the fruit down the mountain.

This shall be known as the great warning of R.Carter, for he is the choosen one. (he suggested it)

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LOL. You're a kook, man.

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Originally posted by Nirvana Starseed
This shall be known as the great warning of R.Carter, for he is the choosen one. (he suggested it)

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ROGLMAO!!!

I have NO idea what Nirvana just said, but I think its one of the most hillarious things I've ever read.

Looks like the Son of Kurt has been eating his wheaties.

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Originally posted by Ex Nine
It would have been nice to have realized this when I was younger. You know. Before I failed all those classes. Here's hoping I don't fail the ones I just tried! :)

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Ah, X9 you find the plight of the Athiest in your observation, that he always finds the best advice too late. Don't worry, m'boy, I'm sure you had fun in the process.

And, yeah, congrats on your exam, my friend. congrats.

And about the mythos: Ptah-Sokar is a name that hasn't been figured out by egyptologists yet. It means "Grand Architect of Earth" Ptah="Grand Architect" and Sokar = "of the Earth". It is identical to the placeholder GAOTU as said by the FreeMasons.

Occultly, the purposes of God are carried out through the assumption, fulfillment and finally termination of Names. The use of Names is analogous to how the nerves and hormones in our body transmit commands from the presiding intelligence (you) to the lesser intelligences (your cells, muscles, etc. etc.) Names are constructed by God (the presiding intelligence of the Earth scheme) and then distributed to lesser lives (mankind especially) in the same way.

The assumption of these Names, or in other words figuring out what they mean and if you are fit to assume them, or in other words, that you can actually do what they mean, is a science.

The fulfillment of them is based on conforming your little Will to the Will-of-God, expressed in the Name, which is a task with a beginning, a middle and an end, which the assumer of the name takes karmic responsibility to carry out.

The termination of the Name, is based on the fulfilling of the task that the Name describes. Many people have assumed Names (having used their intelligence to figure them out) but due to their inability to fulfill them, the Name still exists.

For example, many antecident to Christ assumed the Name Christ (or "Messiah"), but it was only Jesus of Nazareth that fulfilled the Name. When the task is fulfilled, the name disappears.

People wonder why Jesus Christ had so many names, like Alpha and Omega, Son of Man, Light of the World, Christ, The Savior, Son of God, etc. etc. Each of these Names corresponds to a specific task. Many of the Names he used have been tied to events in scripture, however many have not (so far).

Speaking about names, Ptah-Sokar is a very, very neutral Name. I'm thinking of exchanging it here soon (to particiapte in an experiment Nirvana and I working on) to Typhon-Set, perhaps the most radient name of all, it being identical to Lucifer, the Angel of Light. We'll see how that goes though. I'll retain the same icon though, the female Yantra of Trimegistus so it'll be easy to recognize my posts.

Thank you for your congratulations everyone. I'm just happy to be free. :)

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Originally posted by ptahsokar
[h, X9 you find the plight of the Athiest in your observation, that he always finds the best advice too late.

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And the theists never find it.

Really, that's good advice, but not the "best." I probably wouldn't have followed it before anyways. "Hey, kid don't be so smart," like I had heard it a million times, only made me want to be a million times smarter.

Good thing. I could have deluded myself into thinking I was doing magic.


The "presiding intelligence over the Earth-scheme" is whatever the most powerful intelligence on Earth is. Humanity. And the power of humanity's intelligence grows over time, by virtue of the fact that our intelligence can transcend the death of individuals, and be passed down through books, word of mouth, and other increasingly ingenious media. Your backwards search through the most primitively remarkable societies for their idea of intelligence means you are actually taking advantage of this transcended intelligence, but not acknowledging its existent primacy.

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Originally posted by Ex Nine
Good thing. I could have deluded myself into thinking I was doing magic.

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You do magick too, m'boy. Everybody does it. When you move your arm, or twist a door knob, or make a cellphone call, you're doing magick.

My big beef with people is they don't see the magick in the stuff that they do. If you told a man back in the 1800's that people would be flying around in the bellies of big mechanical birds to distant lands, he'd call you crazy and say that the magick to do this was far beyond any man.

Where people see the mundain and common, I choose instead to practice the enthusiastic art of seeing the magick in everything. It really opens your view to a whole new world, in my opinion.

Magick is science that you don't understand. According to the definition used here.

We could also use the term "Magic" as something that is not possible. eg, illogical.
In this way alot of people believe in magic.

Alot of people could call alot of stuff magick in the proper context and in clarity. Instead they think they know how it works already. This illusion of knowledge makes them delusional. Where as seeing "magick" in clarity involves aknowledging what you don't understand yet, and discerning that which you do and do not know. And so seeing and apreciating the mysteries in life.

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Originally posted by Nirvana Starseed
Magick is science that you don't understand. According to the definition used here.

We could also use the term \"Magic\" as something that is not possible. eg, illogical.
In this way alot of people believe in magic.

Alot of people could call alot of stuff magick in the proper context and in clarity. Instead they think they know how it works already. This illusion of knowledge makes them delusional. Where as seeing \"magick\" in clarity involves aknowledging what you don't understand yet, and discerning that which you do and do not know. And so seeing and apreciating the mysteries in life.

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One of the greatest miracle-working Saints in History, Saint Bernard of Clairvaux, was a great advocate for the retention of 'Mystery', as against the rising insistence of his Time toward rationalizing everything. Then, they wished to Rationalize the Faith, so they thought they were only doing it a favor, but Saint Bernard wisely discerned that ultimately the Mind was not going to do the Spirit much good in the long run. The Mind reaches Atheism and then finds it difficult to go much beyond that.

Indeed, in regards to these sophistic definitions of Magic it is as though the Mind is once again not rising much beyond its element. We are lead to suppose that Magic would no longer be magic once we understood it. Such a notion quite misses the point. For instance, Saint Francis of Paola, when told by his Bishop to refrain from all but the most necessary Miracles, was a bit confused concerning the status of the situation when he saw a workman fall from a steeple repair, and decided to suspend the man in the middle of his fall, some 40 feet above the level of the street, until he could go to the Bishop and have the circumstances clarified. We had the instant suspension of gravity in the 16th Century in Southern Italy. Now, tell me, what exactly here can be explained in order to take the Magic out of the Magic, or to replace the Mystery with the perfectly reasonable?