Does anyone know?

[Howie]

. I have read the Bible over the years and although there are many references to dreams, there is no mention, that I am aware o,f with concerns to lucid dreaming. What are the implications to a believer of lucid dreams and where, if at all does it fit in with any organized religion?

[cd27]

I think Lucid dreams along with all science has something to do with God. God has reveiled himself many times in visions, could these not be lucid dreams? cd

[Howie]

Originally posted by cd27 I think Lucid dreams along with all science has something to do with God. God has reveiled himself many times in visions, could these not be lucid dreams? cd That is a good question cd27. There are many cultures in which lucid dreaming is a way of life. Could this have been the case back then? But surly they also had regular dreams also. You would have thought that with the significance that they put upon dreaming, that there would have been more discussion about dreams. But then again, to me the entire Bible is vague and leave everything open to interpretation. Some parallel the different books to find their answer to their questions. If this is the case and anyone knows the interpretation of if religion does address LDs, I would like to know. As a general consensus, which may just be a western view, the practice of lucid dreaming is often called an occult and related to the mystic side of beliefs.

[Seeker]

I am firmly convinced that a lot of the experiences that were logged as "visions" were indeed lucid dreams. It just fits.

[wombing]

surely dreams played an important part throughout judeo-christian culture, and its religions. judaism, christianity, and islam all place meaning in some dreams, even in modern times. my childhood protestant church would have times where people could relay their "visions" from god to the congregation. this time came after the worship service, when repetitive, almost trance-like music would softly play, and many would close their eyes and open themselves to "hearing a word". some accounts were quited detailed, and the person experiencing the "vision" seemed almost shaken at the realism. in retrospect, i believe these visions were something akin to hypnogogic imagery, as there would typically be 5-30 mins where the only real sensory imput for these modern "prophets"was the hypnotic music (eyes were closed usually, and the body was still). i find it humorous that almost everyone who ever had a vision where god/jesus spoke to them quoted god as using archaic terminology. here is an example of a "normal" account of a vision. "as we worshiped i had a vision. jesus appeared before me in dazzling white robes. the peace and love in his face was unspeakable, and i felt so loved. then the voice of god the father spoke, and said: 'yea, even in this time are my children called to be strong. you have been weak and double-minded, but as my holy spirit descends upon you, ye shall be as strong as oxen. the almighty has fashioned incorruptible armour to protect you from the attacks of the evil one..." and so on. one would think the all-knowing god would be able to update his language a little from such a strange hybrid of old king james, and modern english --------- Numbers 12:6 "he said, "Listen to my words: "When a prophet of the LORD is among you, I reveal myself to him in visions, I speak to him in dreams. " --- "Vision (Hebrew, chazon) is derived from chazah, "to perceive, to foresee." It is sometimes a synonym for "dream." The corresponding Greek word in Acts, horaseis, means supernatural visions, usually meant to give a message to the public. Sometimes these bring symbolic pictures of the future, such as in Daniel’s dreams and visions in chapters 7–12, and Ezekiel’s vision of the valley of dry bones, where the dry bones represented the scattered people of Israel whom God would restore to their land, forgive, and put His Spirit in them (Ezekiel 37:1–14). The same word for vision, chazon, is also used of God’s revelation in a whole book of the Bible, as in Isaiah 1:1; Obadiah 1; and Nahum 1. The word emphasizes that the entirety of the prophecy was a God-given, Spirit-inspired revelation.." ---- it is unclear whether lucidity was involved in many of the dreams/visions described in the bible, but IMO, it is highly likely that many were lucid dreams. and personally, i believe dreams are one of the best conduits for "god" (in the sense of All That Is, the "Higher" Self, the totality of consciousness, etc) to communicate with an individual.

[Asclepius]

[quote]. What are the implications to a believer of lucid dreams and where, if at all does it fit in with any organized religion? As far as organized religion Tibettan Buddhism has included lucid dreaming for approximately 900 years. In the West skepticism remained until LaBerge could demonstrate eye signalling in the lab. Perhaps some of theother Tibettan Buddhist experiences will eventually also be granted more credence. The contemplative tradition in the Catholic church may have some cross over with dream incubation. But I'm not aware of an explicit connection to lucid dreaming. Also why do you say believer of lucid dreams? I don't believe in them, I experience them. Please find references to electricity, computers, potatoes, tobacco, etc. in the Bible. Hopefully the practictioner of any religion can be open to new experiences.

[Howie]

Thanks Wombing & Asclepius for some facts. It is a learning process. An experience. You can't believe in an experience? I had a lucid dreaming experience I believe different from that of a normal dream. Are the Ten commandments open for new experiences? religion shuns new. Most religion is bases on the beginning fundamentals and would like nothing more than there to be no change. Dont ask & I will tell you no lies. Don't think outside the realm of our religion or we will put you on house arrest. We will shun you from our practice I will split and make my own religion. New ideas and religion....You tread dangerous waters.

[InTheMoment]

Originally posted by Wombie one would think the all-knowing god would be able to update his language a little from such a strange hybrid of old king james, and modern english

[Asclepius]

[quote][ You can't believe in an experience? I had a lucid dreaming experience I believe different from that of a normal dream. religion shuns new. Most religion is bases on the beginning fundamentals and would like nothing more than there to be no change. Dont ask & I will tell you no lies. Don't think outside the realm of our religion or we will put you on house arrest. I was using experience as higher level in terms of truth. (For example in court an ordinary expression of belief is discarded as hearsay, while experience would qualify you to be a witness. For the other part, sorry didn't realize you were trolling for Christians...

[Leo Volont]

Lucid Dreaming is just a modern hype. A new age fraud. No serious person really needs to take it very seriously. Civilizations have risen and fallen, Religions come and gone, Saints and Conquerers have tread upon the earth, all without Lucid Dreaming. I wouldn't sweat it then.

[Howie]

Originally posted by Leo Volont+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leo Volont)</div> Lucid Dreaming is just a modern hype. A new age fraud. No serious person really needs to take it very seriously. Civilizations have risen and fallen, Religions come and gone, Saints and Conquerers have tread upon the earth, all without Lucid Dreaming. I wouldn't sweat it then.[/b] Were you quoting someone here Leo? You know the importance lucid dreaming can have on our psyche! Religiously <!--QuoteBegin-seeker I am firmly convinced that a lot of the experiences that were logged as "visions" were indeed lucid dreams. It just fits.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Howetzer Well... sometimes I exaggerate my aggravation that the modern public focusses so narrowly on Lucid Dreaming - a categorical conceptualization that did not even exist, what, 40 years ago. and yet people still were able to do a great deal of Spiritual Work in their dreams. While it is significant that Lucid Dreaming was not mentioned in the Bible, what is more significant, in its own way, was that Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung did not mention Lucid Dreaming either. Also, more and more the Techniques for establishing Lucidity are merging in with Out of Body Work and Astral Projection. so it seems what people are now doing with Lucid Dreams, they used to do with Astral Projection. The only New Thing is what people prefer to call it. The Names are new. the Things remain the same.

[LunarMoon]

One must not forget that simply because something is not mentioned in the Bible says nothing of the writers stance on the matter. After all, thermodynamics, sleep paralysis, hallucinations, neurons, and several other things that relate to dreaming are not given the slightest mention in the Bible yet we do not question the implications of this. Well... sometimes I exaggerate my aggravation that the modern public focusses so narrowly on Lucid Dreaming - a categorical conceptualization that did not even exist, what, 40 years ago. and yet people still were able to do a great deal of Spiritual Work in their dreams.[/b] On the contrary, Tibetan dream yoga, developed by Tibetan Buddhist monks, has been practiced for centuries. Lucid dreams often play an inseparable part in many other non-Western religions though it was only in the last forty years that several Eastern practices such as meditation became popular in the West and thus lucid dreaming became more widely talked about as Asclepius previously stated. While it is significant that Lucid Dreaming was not mentioned in the Bible, what is more significant, in its own way, was that Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung did not mention Lucid Dreaming either.[/b] Though they were both among the greats, neither of them were perfect. Freud did not provide every possible bit of information of dreaming along with his theory of dream interpretation. Also, more and more the Techniques for establishing Lucidity are merging in with Out of Body Work and Astral Projection. so it seems what people are now doing with Lucid Dreams, they used to do with Astral Projection. * The only New Thing is what people prefer to call it. The Names are new. the Things remain the same.[/b] I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Leo Volont]

Dear Lunar Moon, I was worried for a moment, but was exceedingly glad when we both ended on the same Page.

[.jared.]

I recall reading a few weeks ago in proverbs a verse that spoke of dreaming while being aware of the dream. i will try to find it. EDIT: Psalms 73:20 begins "As a dream when one awaketh...". I don't know if that could be interpreted as a dream.

[Howie]

Originally posted by .jared. I recall reading a few weeks ago in proverbs a verse that spoke of dreaming while being aware of the dream. i will try to find it. EDIT: Psalms 73:20 begins "As a dream when one awaketh...". I don't know if that could be interpreted as a dream. Cool Thanks. I have been waiting for someone to point something out that was entirely not an opinion. It is unclear as most of the Bible is to me . But it does sound as if that is what they meant, taking into consideration how they spoke..

[syzygy]

Out of context, this passage does seem like it could be about lucid dreaming. In context, however, it definitely is not: "As a dream when one awakes, so when you arise, O Lord, you will despise them as fantasies." Before this, it is talking about those without God, so in context it is saying that it is as when you wake up from a dream, that when you awake to God, living without Him seems like a dream, a fantasy, unreality.

[Howie]

Originally posted by syzygy Out of context, this passage does seem like it could be about lucid dreaming. In context, however, it definitely is not: * * * "As a dream when one awakes, * * * * so when you arise, O Lord, * * * * you will despise them as fantasies." Before this, it is talking about those without God, so in context it is saying that it is as when you wake up from a dream, that when you awake to God, living without Him seems like a dream, a fantasy, unreality. Good point. I think this is where everyone gets into disputes over the Bible and it's contents. (Taking everything out of context) taking small portions or tidbits to fit where they need them. Some other references I found but again, I believe they would not apply to LD's Job20:8 Sam 2:30

[.jared.]

Originally posted by syzygy Out of context, this passage does seem like it could be about lucid dreaming. In context, however, it definitely is not: "As a dream when one awakes, so when you arise, O Lord, you will despise them as fantasies." Before this, it is talking about those without God, so in context it is saying that it is as when you wake up from a dream, that when you awake to God, living without Him seems like a dream, a fantasy, unreality. I didn't say it was about lucid dreaming. I said it might be interpreted in that way. I think it is about lucid dreaming. To me waking up to god wouldn't be waking out of this dream world. I think heaven is when we fully wake up. However becoming lucid to this life and realizing that this world is simply a dream is what he might have been implying.

[Howie]

I wish I new. Is the Bible suppose to be viewed and parraled to the many other passages or is it to be read more like a book? It does not make any sense when you read it like a book but to consider that the books were all made from such different references, sources & time periods would seem to immply that it would not to be viewed ONE piece.

[syzygy]

Originally posted by .jared. I didn't say it was about lucid dreaming. I said it might be interpreted in that way. I think it is about lucid dreaming. To me waking up to god wouldn't be waking out of this dream world. I think heaven is when we fully wake up. However becoming lucid to this life and realizing that this world is simply a dream is what he might have been implying. I agree with you jared, that waking up to God can happen while in the material world. The only reason I don't think this particular passage is referring to lucid dreaming is because it says that when you awake from the dream of existence without God you despise it as a fantasy. Compared to when one becomes aware while in a dream, you still know it is just as much a fantasy as when you weren't aware. I completely agree with you that becoming aware that the dream is none other than yourself is an analogy to becoming aware that this world is none other than God, but I don't think that is what this author was thinking because of the wording.

[.jared.]

Originally posted by syzygy I agree with you jared, that waking up to God can happen while in the material world. The only reason I don't think this particular passage is referring to lucid dreaming is because it says that when you awake from the dream of existence without God you despise it as a fantasy. Compared to when one becomes aware while in a dream, you still know it is just as much a fantasy as when you weren't aware. I completely agree with you that becoming aware that the dream is none other than yourself is an analogy to becoming aware that this world is none other than God, but I don't think that is what this author was thinking because of the wording. I agree with you in that i don't think that thats what the author was thinking about. I just think it could possibly be interpreted in such a way.

[.jared.]

Song of Solomon 5:2 (New International Version) Beloved 2 I slept but my heart was awake. Listen! My lover is knocking: "Open to me, my sister, my darling, my dove, my flawless one. My head is drenched with dew, my hair with the dampness of the night." I think it could be.

[SwordOfGod]

Several years ago I was reading about an atheist argument against the existance of a truly freewill loving God. He suggested that God, if He existed, did not truly care about freewill since we spent literally thousands of hours asleep in our lifetimes, not exercising freewill. Personally I love anti-christian arguments because the search to find an answer (and there always is one) causes my knowlege of God to increase and eventually lead to even greater faith in Him. I was inspired by this man's arguments and had wondered of the answer until I found out about lucid dreaming, it was then that I came up with what could be an answer... That perhaps humans in the past always dreamed with lucidity, that in time we either forgot how to (until recently) or somehow lost the ability(maybe for the same reason we no longer live 800 years or are open to disease and cancer, unless of course you read Genesis metaphorically). I think this would fit the pattern God set forth in creation, that is, various ways we were meant to imitate and better understand Him. One such way is our stewardship over all animals (the same way he rules over us). I think dreaming lucidly could be another way to understand God, think of it, God but thought and light was created, God but thought and the water was separated from land. Are these not things that we can do in our dreams? If we think of a bowl... it appears. If we want to make it fly... easily done. Psalms suggests in 24:29 that by God simply not thinking of us or "hiding His face" we would all die, is this not very similiar to lucid dreaming? It is through lucid dreaming that we can come to understand God in His infinite power because in our dreamworld... we have the power of God. I really don't have any evidence... yet. Just a cool idea and certainly not a conclusion