Only man is fit to be God.

Only man is fit to be God.

There is no higher form of intelligent life as far as we can tell with any confidence.

Man has already proven that he can produce better laws than any of the Gods so to want to have man led by a God with less moral values would be like us electing Satan.

We are a part of the animal kingdom. In this kingdom, all animals look to their own kind for guidance and the best rules for them to live their lives by. These they learn from instincts. Man seeks the same best rules to live life by and not only uses his instincts and feelings, he also uses his intellect and reason.

Religions would have us emulate some absentee Gods while knowing that they are less moral and intelligent in their laws than man. That is why religions tend to not try to have holy laws put into our societies. They are way too draconian.

If all other animals emulate their fittest as God, in the sense of the best rules for life, then why do some humans want to follow what can only be called an alien God?

Humans should rule over humans. No alien God should ever be let to rule over us even if one did show up.

Do you agree and if not, why not?

Regards
DL

Have you ever realized that maybe religions reflect what morals and laws men learn from instinct? Maybe men congregated and found the best laws with their intellect and reason and put them into a religion. Just imagine how stupid the average man is, then realize that half the population is stupider than him. How would you convince them to be good when no one is looking. Of course, religion has its flaws, nothing is perfect.

But here is something to ponder, do you know in any period of history where there was an atheist civilization? The thing is, a religion is a huge part of a societies culture, and without it they are forced to cling to something else. By going by their instincts they do a lot of things others might find immoral, like choosing to kill someone if no one saw, or stealing if your instincts told you that you could get away with it, especially if you happened to be someone with a below average IQ. So when you expect each person to use their intellect and reason, the average man has a horrid sense of reasoning skills. It is to have something like a religion so people can learn a good sense of morality and virtue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shamanite

Have you ever realized that maybe religions reflect what morals and laws men learn from instinct? Maybe men congregated and found the best laws with their intellect and reason and put them into a religion. Just imagine how stupid the average man is, then realize that half the population is stupider than him. How would you convince them to be good when no one is looking. Of course, religion has its flaws, nothing is perfect.

But here is something to ponder, do you know in any period of history where there was an atheist civilization? The thing is, a religion is a huge part of a societies culture, and without it they are forced to cling to something else. By going by their instincts they do a lot of things others might find immoral, like choosing to kill someone if no one saw, or stealing if your instincts told you that you could get away with it, especially if you happened to be someone with a below average IQ. So when you expect each person to use their intellect and reason, the average man has a horrid sense of reasoning skills. It is to have something like a religion so people can learn a good sense of morality and virtue.

---

You are correct that it is the values of men that has been put into religions. Men of thousands of years ago whose wisdom has now been surpassed by modern men with higher levels of education and a lot of history to look back on.

As to religious nations being better than atheist ones. B.S. None have ever had a 1000 year long Inquisition.

Further, statistics show the reverse of what you are saying and atheists are showing better morals than the religious.

Please Google --- Atheists are immoral -- debunked

I cannot use links as yet.

Regards
DL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gnostic

As to religious nations being better than atheist ones. B.S. None have ever had a 1000 year long Inquisition.

Further, statistics show the reverse of what you are saying and atheists are showing better morals than the religious.

Please Google --- Atheists are immoral -- debunked

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lol... what are you even talking about? I said name one atheist civilization in history

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shamanite

lol... what are you even talking about? I said name one atheist civilization in history

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And I gave.

Regards
DL

Yea and I just went on a date with Emma Watson.


Regards
Shamanite

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shamanite

Yea and I just went on a date with Emma Watson.


Regards
Shamanite

---

Hell yea dude, you are one lucky man Shamanite. Wish I had that opportunity.

As for "Only man is fit to be god" I'd have to disagree with you Gnostic. We humans are so arrogant and ignorant at times, and even alot as a whole existence that I feel that we are no where close to being anywhere near "god-like". We strive to live forever yet we destroy the planet we live on. We live in selfishness with no care to help others(of course not all of us). If humans really had this superior "guidance" you speak of, we would be better than what we are now. He who destroys himself is not fit to be a god.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OneUp

Hell yea dude, you are one lucky man Shamanite. Wish I had that opportunity.

As for "Only man is fit to be god" I'd have to disagree with you Gnostic. We humans are so arrogant and ignorant at times, and even alot as a whole existence that I feel that we are no where close to being anywhere near "god-like". We strive to live forever yet we destroy the planet we live on. We live in selfishness with no care to help others(of course not all of us). If humans really had this superior "guidance" you speak of, we would be better than what we are now. He who destroys himself is not fit to be a god.

---

What the hell have you been smoking?

Every marker for evil that I track, poverty, violent death by all causes including war, slavery, are all at their best levels in history per capita.

We have taken a full billion out of poverty in the last ten years and they forecast the same in the next. Check your Economist and other stats.

As to the environment we live in, only an idiot would think that one species on a world where all species will go extinct will even be noticed by good old mother earth.

Stop looking at your feet and saying that the sky is falling.

I can prove to you that even your poor morals are better than your God's.

All you need do is answer a simple moral question.

If I told you that I was moved by Satan to destroy a human life without just cause, would I be guilty of a sin?

If God said the same thing to you, would he get the same response as you gave me?

Regards
DL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gnostic

Only man is fit to be God.

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In the day of the Lord, I want to see what happens to you when you say that to his face....I am waiting for that day very much. You probaly would try to hide at this rate. But he will find you where-ever you try to hide. You cannot escape. No-one should be ignorant enough to claim Man is God.

Kind regards

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deanstar

In the day of the Lord, I want to see what happens to you when you say that to his face....I am waiting for that day very much. You probaly would try to hide at this rate. But he will find you where-ever you try to hide. You cannot escape. No-one should be ignorant enough to claim Man is God.

Kind regards

---

No man should be such a slave to fantasy, miracles and magic.

Your God is an immoral prick and I can prove it.

For instance. He admits to being a sinner in the Job myth with his whining that Stan moved him to destroy without cause. He is admitting to murder without cause.

Follow your satanic God. Just do not expect respect from moral people.

Regards
DL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deanstar

In the day of the Lord, I want to see what happens to you when you say that to his face....I am waiting for that day very much. You probaly would try to hide at this rate. But he will find you where-ever you try to hide. You cannot escape. No-one should be ignorant enough to claim Man is God.

Kind regards

---

Sounds like a tyrant.
However powerful he is, that's no god to follow.

Anyway,
It is impossible for humans to not 'create' their own God, regardless of his existence.
We use our knowledge, sense, logic and emotions (etc) to judge what ideals to follow. Thus, if there is a god, and if we do have free will, then he would have to follow the "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink" rule. Whatever he says to us, it will always be our interpretation of it and our choice to follow. Some people have chosen to read the bible and see it as truth; but it is still their own judgement of the bible that has caused them to view it as an authority. So in that way, the authority they follow is still one they created themselves.

Absolutely no one, short of a truly perfect being (and I'd have my misgivings about that, as well) is fit to be God.

splodeymissile wins the thread.

what happens when man becomes out of shape?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gnostic

Man has already proven that he can produce better laws than any of the Gods

---

I'll take natural laws over man's laws any day!
For many people, God(s)=Nature.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gnostic

What the hell have you been smoking?

Every marker for evil that I track, poverty, violent death by all causes including war, slavery, are all at their best levels in history per capita.

We have taken a full billion out of poverty in the last ten years and they forecast the same in the next. Check your Economist and other stats.

As to the environment we live in, only an idiot would think that one species on a world where all species will go extinct will even be noticed by good old mother earth.

Stop looking at your feet and saying that the sky is falling.

I can prove to you that even your poor morals are better than your God's.

All you need do is answer a simple moral question.

If I told you that I was moved by Satan to destroy a human life without just cause, would I be guilty of a sin?

If God said the same thing to you, would he get the same response as you gave me?

Regards
DL

---

What the hell have you been smoking pal?

The United States is more than 17 trillion dollars in debt, are you blind?

China basically owns us right now, didnt know that either huh? Im glad that you feel that humans are so perfect, but you asked for my opinion. Honestly, to see humans as perfect is rather arrogant. It appears you know nothing about what is going on in America. Im not trying to be negative I am just saying that you dont even realize the world you live in. Im agnostic, so I don't really believe in god.
GMO's and fast food products are slowly taking over societies and if you are stupid enough to not care about that then you are even more blind that I thought. Humans still fight wars, STILL live in poverty, and trust me, theres many more things. And you think just because we have done a little bit to fix that, that now the entire problem is resolved? Are you even hearing yourself?
My point in all of this is that we would be horrible rulers, if we were to do rule ourselves. I believe in ruling ourselves to a point, such as republicanism and government but in no way should we simply trust ourselves yet to be able to rule over everything. Until humans as a whole can come together and come to peace, then we are not fit to do much of anything regarding the powers you are talking about. Come back to Earth buddy, you live in a wonderland right now. 1 billion dollars is nothing compared to 17 trillion, looks like your good at mathematics ;). Don't ever speak for me. You don't know my beliefs so never assume anything.
"their best levels in history" lol wtf? Are you kidding me? xD you obviously are a good example of how ignorant many people are about the world they live in. Ill let you stay there, you seem like one of those guys who feels that "ignorance is bliss". Good for you buddy.
For the future, know that not everyone has to agree with you, so dont get offended if they don't.

Kind Regards
OneUp

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gnostic

No man should be such a slave to fantasy, miracles and magic.

Your God is an immoral prick and I can prove it.

For instance. He admits to being a sinner in the Job myth with his whining that Stan moved him to destroy without cause. He is admitting to murder without cause.

Follow your satanic God. Just do not expect respect from moral people.

Regards
DL

---

Lol it really gives me a good laugh when people who know nothing about the Bible or its meanings like to scrutinize it. When I was a christian, I studied that stuff alot, so I know what alot of it means. The story of Job was a test that god let happen in order to test Jobs faith. And when Job made it through the test and proved his faith to god, he got rewarded 100 times over. Its hilarious how all you people against the Bible are so ignorant of the text, more over symbolism and the deep meaning of it. You can't scrutinize something you dont know anything about.

Kind Regards,
OneUp

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shamanite

Have you ever realized that maybe religions reflect what morals and laws men learn from instinct?

---

Interesting you mention that. You can almost watch as the ideology of the time evolved if you look at the old testament and the new testament. The old testament depicts a time in which the Hammurabi Code was law and man required such strict, barbaric rules because it was a very unruly, barbaric time. The new testament shows how the ideology shifted to one closer to what we see now in the western world (or at least what it preaches), and that is one more of love. Man learns to forgive others, and therefore himself. He has developed an emotional maturity and learned to control himself. He still shall not bear false witness, covet his neighbor, commit adutlery, etc., but rather than do so because he is promised a swift justice from either his peers or his God, it is because doing so is both wrong and if you really think about it, benefits him in the long run not to treat others poorly. If everyone can conduct themselves properly, follow the newer, simpler rules, and not mess it up, then the quality of everyone's lives is that much richer. It teaches us to both look at ourselves and our neighbors, to find the wrong in the things we do too (and change it), and to help those in need. It teaches us the golden rule. To me, the Bible is more like a round-about way of recording man's maturation as a civilized society as long as you can recognize it as that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by splodeymissile

Absolutely no one, short of a truly perfect being (and I'd have my misgivings about that, as well) is fit to be God.

---

Yet you vote for a political ruler who is a man.

Regards
DL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by juroara

I'll take natural laws over man's laws any day!
For many people, God(s)=Nature.

---

Natural law says that a murderer can kill you or your loved ones without retribution.

Would you really like to scrap all of man's laws and go all natural?

In the natural world, might makes right. Is that what you want? Chaos instead of order?

Regards
DL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OneUp

What the hell have you been smoking pal?

The United States is more than 17 trillion dollars in debt, are you blind?

China basically owns us right now, didnt know that either huh? Im glad that you feel that humans are so perfect, but you asked for my opinion. Honestly, to see humans as perfect is rather arrogant. It appears you know nothing about what is going on in America. Im not trying to be negative I am just saying that you dont even realize the world you live in. Im agnostic, so I don't really believe in god.
GMO's and fast food products are slowly taking over societies and if you are stupid enough to not care about that then you are even more blind that I thought. Humans still fight wars, STILL live in poverty, and trust me, theres many more things. And you think just because we have done a little bit to fix that, that now the entire problem is resolved? Are you even hearing yourself?
My point in all of this is that we would be horrible rulers, if we were to do rule ourselves. I believe in ruling ourselves to a point, such as republicanism and government but in no way should we simply trust ourselves yet to be able to rule over everything. Until humans as a whole can come together and come to peace, then we are not fit to do much of anything regarding the powers you are talking about. Come back to Earth buddy, you live in a wonderland right now. 1 billion dollars is nothing compared to 17 trillion, looks like your good at mathematics ;). Don't ever speak for me. You don't know my beliefs so never assume anything.
"their best levels in history" lol wtf? Are you kidding me? xD you obviously are a good example of how ignorant many people are about the world they live in. Ill let you stay there, you seem like one of those guys who feels that "ignorance is bliss". Good for you buddy.
For the future, know that not everyone has to agree with you, so dont get offended if they don't.

Kind Regards
OneUp

---

The U.S. is only a small part of the world. Get over yourself and look at the big picture if you canl.

Get some stats or ask nicely and I will link you.

Start by Googling -----Hans Rosling's 200 Countries, 200 Years, 4 Minutes

Regards
DL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OneUp

Lol it really gives me a good laugh when people who know nothing about the Bible or its meanings like to scrutinize it. When I was a christian, I studied that stuff alot, so I know what alot of it means. The story of Job was a test that god let happen in order to test Jobs faith. And when Job made it through the test and proved his faith to god, he got rewarded 100 times over. Its hilarious how all you people against the Bible are so ignorant of the text, more over symbolism and the deep meaning of it. You can't scrutinize something you dont know anything about.

Kind Regards,
OneUp

---

If I kill your children and replace them with a new batch, am I rewarding you?

Your original children will not think so but thanks for showing us your immoral beliefs.

You prove that Christianity corrupts morals by forcing theist to have a double standard of morals where they forgive and even praise God for what they condemn men for doing..

Regards
DL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gnostic

Yet you vote for a political ruler who is a man.

Regards
DL

---

What makes you assume that he votes? Plenty don't.

There is no need for a God of any kind, whether divine or anthropic. Most real social change does not happen through one party but through several factors, both social, technological and environmental. Did women get their rights purely because of the efforts of the suffragettes or did the fact that technological and economic changes granted a wide sector of society significant free time from labour for the first time since pre-agriculture allow women to aspire for something greater? Chances are it was both those factors and plenty more (such as the requirement for a women labour force during both World Wars thanks to all the men off to war and the spread of the humanistic Marxist philosophy).

I personally find the notion of a human god full of hubris and arrogance. You might as well tell us that you want a human dictator. We should move away from the outdated concept of linear hierarchical systems and move towards a more decentralised approach that respects the inherit limitations of human psychology in empathizing with people beyond a critical number. While laws are important in their own right, there more important aspects to human morality.

As much as I disagree with Christian morality, I do not understand how you can claim superiority over it. If Christianity is the work of man (which I believe as well as presumably you), what is the problem with it from your perspective? After all, "only man is fit to be God" so that's just what man is doing through the medium of Christianity according to your thesis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DeviantThinker

What makes you assume that he votes? Plenty don't.

There is no need for a God of any kind, whether divine or anthropic. Most real social change does not happen through one party but through several factors, both social, technological and environmental. Did women get their rights purely because of the efforts of the suffragettes or did the fact that technological and economic changes granted a wide sector of society significant free time from labour for the first time since pre-agriculture allow women to aspire for something greater? Chances are it was both those factors and plenty more (such as the requirement for a women labour force during both World Wars thanks to all the men off to war and the spread of the humanistic Marxist philosophy).

I personally find the notion of a human god full of hubris and arrogance. You might as well tell us that you want a human dictator. We should move away from the outdated concept of linear hierarchical systems and move towards a more decentralised approach that respects the inherit limitations of human psychology in empathizing with people beyond a critical number. While laws are important in their own right, there more important aspects to human morality.

As much as I disagree with Christian morality, I do not understand how you can claim superiority over it. If Christianity is the work of man (which I believe as well as presumably you), what is the problem with it from your perspective? After all, "only man is fit to be God" so that's just what man is doing through the medium of Christianity according to your thesis.

---

Note that we soundly reject Christian morality in secular law because secular law is moral while Christian law is not.

As a Gnostic Christian and Universalist, our morality is superior to most of the other Abrahamic cults because we grant equality to all people while Christianity, Catholics and Islam deny equality to half the world.

Regards
DL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gnostic

The U.S. is only a small part of the world. Get over yourself and look at the big picture if you canl.

Get some stats or ask nicely and I will link you.

Start by Googling -----Hans Rosling's 200 Countries, 200 Years, 4 Minutes

Regards
DL



If I kill your children and replace them with a new batch, am I rewarding you?

Your original children will not think so but thanks for showing us your immoral beliefs.

You prove that Christianity corrupts morals by forcing theist to have a double standard of morals where they forgive and even praise God for what they condemn men for doing..

Regards
DL

---

"The U.S is only a small part of the world"
Oh really? We are a superpower so no actually- not small at all.
On top of that, dismissing our problems because we are only "a small part of the world" is the stupidest thing I've ever heard, congratulations buddy for thinking otherwise. Im really glad that you've learned to dodge and ignore huge problems just because they don't apply to you, it really shows your "great" way of thinking. It also shows that you clearly do not know what is really going on in the world.
However, I will agree that we have really advanced in society over the last 200 years, but that video of Hans Rosling only showed progression with health and wealth, which has little to do with the "fitness of man to be a god". The video does not tell you about the corruptness in the world, the poverty still going on, disease, or just plain out evil all around the world. I am glad that you are only speaking this on this forum and not anywhere else, it really does seem that you a trolling me, but I'm not sure.
I can see now that all you are going to do is dodge the truth to see the "better". When you take ignoring the evil in the world to this extreme level that you are, you start living in a fantasy. You are ignorant of what is going on around you, and you even dismiss the conflicts taking place in many superpower countries going on as "little" events. I see the bigger picture, the problem is, is that your head is too big so you see so much of the bigger picture that you dont care about all of the other rather huge problems. Get over yourself and come back to reality.

As for the morality of Christianity, you clearly cannot come to understand the whole bigger picture of why god does the things he does. You like to point out the things you can't and don't understand and you label them immoral and evil. Its interesting that- in case of the bible- you feel that your level of thinking and understanding is equal to that of a god, when in reality all you are is a human. There is a HUGE distinction between god and humans, hence the title "god". What makes you think that you could know the reason to why the god of the bible does everything? Thats right, because you can't. There was a reason for everything that God did in the Bible, but seeing how you think, and how close-minded you seem, I know that you aren't ready to accept any of that so I am wasting my time here anyways.

And for the record, Christians do not deny equality to the rest of the world. Christians are taught to be tolerant and respectful of all other religions. You really don't know much about Christianity do you?

Kind Regards
OneUp

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OneUp

"The U.S is only a small part of the world"
Oh really? We are a superpower so no actually- not small at all.
On top of that, dismissing our problems because we are only "a small part of the world" is the stupidest thing I've ever heard, congratulations buddy for thinking otherwise. Im really glad that you've learned to dodge and ignore huge problems just because they don't apply to you, it really shows your "great" way of thinking. It also shows that you clearly do not know what is really going on in the world.
However, I will agree that we have really advanced in society over the last 200 years, but that video of Hans Rosling only showed progression with health and wealth, which has little to do with the "fitness of man to be a god". The video does not tell you about the corruptness in the world, the poverty still going on, disease, or just plain out evil all around the world. I am glad that you are only speaking this on this forum and not anywhere else, it really does seem that you a trolling me, but I'm not sure.
I can see now that all you are going to do is dodge the truth to see the "better". When you take ignoring the evil in the world to this extreme level that you are, you start living in a fantasy. You are ignorant of what is going on around you, and you even dismiss the conflicts taking place in many superpower countries going on as "little" events. I see the bigger picture, the problem is, is that your head is too big so you see so much of the bigger picture that you dont care about all of the other rather huge problems. Get over yourself and come back to reality.

As for the morality of Christianity, you clearly cannot come to understand the whole bigger picture of why god does the things he does. You like to point out the things you can't and don't understand and you label them immoral and evil. Its interesting that- in case of the bible- you feel that your level of thinking and understanding is equal to that of a god, when in reality all you are is a human. There is a HUGE distinction between god and humans, hence the title "god". What makes you think that you could know the reason to why the god of the bible does everything? Thats right, because you can't. There was a reason for everything that God did in the Bible, but seeing how you think, and how close-minded you seem, I know that you aren't ready to accept any of that so I am wasting my time here anyways.

And for the record, Christians do not deny equality to the rest of the world. Christians are taught to be tolerant and respectful of all other religions. You really don't know much about Christianity do you?

Kind Regards
OneUp

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Only a lot more than you. Here is proof.

"There is a HUGE distinction between god and humans, hence the title "god"."

Does God say there is a big difference when he says we are made in his image and that we can think as well as he does?

Or don't you believe your bible?

Gen 3;22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Yep. We sure are different.

Let's see what Jesus says.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Do you even know how to read scriptures?

If so, recant or be seen as a fool.

Regards
DL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gnostic

Only a lot more than you. Here is proof.

"There is a HUGE distinction between god and humans, hence the title "god"."

Does God say there is a big difference when he says we are made in his image and that we can think as well as he does?

Or don't you believe your bible?

Gen 3;22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Yep. We sure are different.

Let's see what Jesus says.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Do you even know how to read scriptures?

If so, recant or be seen as a fool.

Regards
DL

---

Hahaha please stop, you apparently don't know the difference between supernatural and natural. The fool in this situation is you. "Recant or be seen as a fool" lololol xD.
Sorry officer, your the joke in this situation. When I referred to the difference between god and man, I was talking about their abilities, their powers, their complete essence, NOT their appearance. My god you really do overlook and overthink ALOT of things. Slow down there buddy, the world won't end if someone disagrees with you. Its funny how you think you know everything, yet you know nothing. One cannot read the scriptures looking at everything as though it is literal. In this situation you are seen as the fool. I really do feel sorry for you that you can't tell apart man from god, it is a really sad thing. God is an infinite being, humans are finite beings. What were you saying about us being the same? Oh yeah, lol you totally misunderstood what I said so your entire previous reply had nothing to do with what I was talking about. Great job making yourself look intelligent. Goes to show that you really dont pay attention do you?

Ok guys, quit calling each other "fool", or Imma gonna haf ta pull out a belt.

Yeh, ya FOOLS!! You hear me, you're all FOOLS!!!

.. I'm so bad, spank me Gab - spank me hard! :tongue: