A story of forgiveness

[erik]

Around Summer 2010 I was looking for a good place to meditate at the river, I walked from Radhadesh to the road next to the river, but suddenly I had the urge to go into the forest, it was like I was controlled by weird desires, I wanted to meditate next to the river. In the forest I climbed a hill and somewhere on that hill I sat down to meditate but the place was just not right for it, I didn't sit comfortably. When I wanted to stand up and moved my shoe from the leafs, I suddenly saw a half crushed spider, I touched it with my shoe and now it was a spider that was crushed half and half good, you could see how he was suffering, but I left it as it was and the first thought that came up in my mind was: "So, now I still found you, huh?" I didn't kill it, I left it for it was, suffering. Later I went to meditate next to the river, paying not so much attention to the half splashed spider who appearantly was still suffering from pain. Maybe it already died, but it was a slow death. Later I thought about this and my conclusion is that there seems to be no forgiveness, the phrase: "Don't worry, you're forgiven" doesn't seem to exist in life, I mean, here I am, Hare Krishna, and still killing and mutalating a spider the size of my thumbnail. The experience was too bizar for words, it was like that spider did someting wrong to me in a past life and now I was paying him back, while I am so careful with animals and insects. It seems that predestination is something we cannot escape and this example is showing me how that works, by coincindences, although there is no coincidence, it was a stupid desire to go and try to find a place in the forest next to the road. That killed the spider. But since a few months I am worshiping Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus died on the cross for our sins and that is something I deeply believe in since a while, I never understood this but I understand now!! If I ask for forgiveness for killing that spider, Lord Jesus will for sure forgive me, I know this for sure because he gave his blood for us! Further I know that Lord Jesus will not only forgive my sins but also the effects of those sins and that makes me very happy!! Lord Jesus is my saviour and not only my saviour but the saviour for all people who believe in Him. A saviour for all mankind!!! Amen!!!

[Descensus]

It shouldn't take a life sacrifice for one to realize that it's not the end of the world if you accidentally step on a spider.

[erik]

It shouldn't take a life sacrifice for one to realize that it's not the end of the world if you accidentally step on a spider. Maybe not, but the spider is in my thoughts so now and then and I feel very sorry for it, I feel very sorry for the way it happened, I cannot explain it, I was under the influence of subtle impulses.

[Sivason]

Why did you not kill the spider out of mercy? Having caused the damage that would soon end his life, why did you not extend the hand of mercy and finish his pain? The spider did not harm you in another life. The very act of existing in this world holds the risk of harming smaller forms of life. Try not to; say a prayer when you accidently do. But my god, do not think there is less Karma in leaving an injured beast to die, because you do not have the charector to accept reponsabilty. I am not trying to be mean, but please, for your sake, try to understand why you should have finished its life on the spot.

[erik]

Why did you not kill the spider out of mercy? Having caused the damage that would soon end his life, why did you not extend the hand of mercy and finish his pain? The spider did not harm you in another life. The very act of existing in this world holds the risk of harming smaller forms of life. Try not to; say a prayer when you accidently do. But my god, do not think there is less Karma in leaving an injured beast to die, because you do not have the charector to accept reponsabilty. I am not trying to be mean, but please, for your sake, try to understand why you should have finished its life on the spot. Yes, you are right, the fact that I didn't kill the spider, well, this deed didn't crop up in my mind, it would have been mercyful, but I cannot exactly explain why I didn't do it, it just didn't cross my mind one way or another and that is bad, I feel terrible about it.

[Alric]

In terms of useful and practical things you could of done, the order goes something like this from most useful to least... 1. Give the spider medical care to save it. 2. Leave some food for it, so if it survives it can eat even while wounded. 3. Leave it and hope it survives. 4. Put it out of it's misery. 5. Ask the spider for forgiveness. 6. Ask the spider's soul for forgiveness after it died. 7. Pray to Jesus to forgive you. The first one would be optimal, though it depends on how hurt it was and your knowledge of spider anatomy and or how close you are getting help for it. The second may actually help if it survives, and so your increasing it's survival chances. Three is probably what most would do, 4 kills it but ends it's suffering so while it isn't as good as saving it, it might be something. It is unlikely a spider will understand you if you ask for forgiveness and this option is pretty useless but in the off chance it can kind of pick up on the inflections of your voice it might kind of sort of understand on some level, though probably not, it is just a spider. Spiders probably don't have souls so the next option is probably entirely useless but at least you are trying something, even if it is useless. The last is utterly useless though. I don't believe in the Christian god, but even if you did he clearly doesn't give a shit about a spider. If you want to do something nice for the spider after the fact, the only real thing you can do is hold it in your memories so it isn't forgotten in this world, and then maybe be more careful in the future so you don't accidentally kill other ones.

[erik]

In terms of useful and practical things you could of done, the order goes something like this from most useful to least... 1. Give the spider medical care to save it. 2. Leave some food for it, so if it survives it can eat even while wounded. 3. Leave it and hope it survives. 4. Put it out of it's misery. 5. Ask the spider for forgiveness. 6. Ask the spider's soul for forgiveness after it died. 7. Pray to Jesus to forgive you. The first one would be optimal, though it depends on how hurt it was and your knowledge of spider anatomy and or how close you are getting help for it. The second may actually help if it survives, and so your increasing it's survival chances. Three is probably what most would do, 4 kills it but ends it's suffering so while it isn't as good as saving it, it might be something. It is unlikely a spider will understand you if you ask for forgiveness and this option is pretty useless but in the off chance it can kind of pick up on the inflections of your voice it might kind of sort of understand on some level, though probably not, it is just a spider. Spiders probably don't have souls so the next option is probably entirely useless but at least you are trying something, even if it is useless. The last is utterly useless though. I don't believe in the Christian god, but even if you did he clearly doesn't give a shit about a spider. If you want to do something nice for the spider after the fact, the only real thing you can do is hold it in your memories so it isn't forgotten in this world, and then maybe be more careful in the future so you don't accidentally kill other ones. Partly funny, but you made a mistake, at point 6 you wrote "Ask the spider's soul for forgiveness after it died" and in your comment you wrote "Spiders probably don't have souls, so the next option is probably entirely useless". The next option is point 7 "Pray to Jesus to forgive you". Although you are contradicting yourself, let me tell you the truth........spiders do have souls and Jesus loves every soul on the planet, so if I pray to Jesus to forgive me for crushing the spider and leave it as it was, he will surely forgive me and he will forgive the results coming from crushing that spider, that is how it works, my friend. I promised myself in October/November 2002 never to kill any insect anymore.

[Original Poster]

Only Satan Forgives.

[Darkmatters]

Only Stan Forgives. Fixed

[erik]

Only Satan Forgives. Satan doesn't forgive, he doesn't have the power to do that because he is a demon, people who think like this will surely end up in hell, so have fun, my friend!!

[Original Poster]

That sounds like you're happy about the fact that I'm going to hell to be tortured for all eternity simply because I was too ignorant to know better. God gave me freewill to choose whether to believe in him, then he set up a planet full of evidence contrary to his nature as laid out in the book he wrote so any rational mind would choose not to believe in him, so it's like a trap. That makes God the most sadistic c&#t I can imagine. I wouldn't want forgiveness from such a cruel entity. I'm perfectly capable of forgiving myself. For example, because my experiences have led me not to believe in God, I forgive myself for my lack of belief. Do you think he can forgive me for not believing in him, too, since this world he made convinces me against his existence? Or is he so spiteful and evil he just gets pleasure out of it?

[erik]

That sounds like you're happy about the fact that I'm going to hell to be tortured for all eternity simply because I was too ignorant to know better. God gave me freewill to choose whether to believe in him, then he set up a planet full of evidence contrary to his nature as laid out in the book he wrote so any rational mind would choose not to believe in him, so it's like a trap. That makes God the most sadistic c&#t I can imagine. I wouldn't want forgiveness from such a cruel entity. I'm perfectly capable of forgiving myself. For example, because my experiences have led me not to believe in God, I forgive myself for my lack of belief. Do you think he can forgive me for not believing in him, too, since this world he made convinces me against his existence? Or is he so spiteful and evil he just gets pleasure out of it? I just said that Satan is a demon and if you think that Satan forgives you are wrong and will end up in hell, that's all. I am not happy at all that people go to hell, I think people can be saved by Lord Jesus, for He is the most powerful son of God, well, He is God manifesting through Him, so if He is God and He forgives, that means He is not a sadistic God, the only way out of Satan and his evil plans is to worship Jesus and to take Him as your redeemer for, as I wrote earlier, He forgives your sins and the results coming from those sins. Let me explain more about Satan, he is a demon and he traps people by entering their hearts and give people false information because Satan opposes God and is out to destroy God, which is impossible. Now, if you think that Satan forgives then you are falling for his trap, for instance, you are stealing some goods from a store, that is the work of Satan, that means he took over the heart or at least part of it. Satan wants you to think he forgives. In this way Satan can blacken the heart and hold you in his grip. If a person truly regrets that stealing, then it's not Satan, that is the work of God. If that person stops stealing, the person can ask for forgiveness and it will be forgiven because God knows that the person regrets it and that will lead the person to the way of Jesus, I am sure about that. Now, if Satan would forgive that means that Satan is a forgiving demon, and demons want people opposing God and make us going to hell. So the nature of Satan is that he pretends to forgive, but the person will not regret it in his heart and WILL steal again because the person thinks he is forgiven and can do it again and again because there is no regret in that blackened heart. And that is the road to hell. Satan will trick the person by saying that the person is forgiven, but will blacken the persons heart again, that is the way it works!

[balban]

What about the trillions upon trillions of viruses, bacteria and your own mutated cells, all once living - now dead, that YOUR immune system annihilates in order for you to exists?

[erik]

What about the trillions upon trillions of viruses, bacteria and your own mutated cells, all once living - now dead, that YOUR immune system annihilates in order for you to exists? Well, there is a difference between mutilating a spider with a complex nervous system and a reason to be alive as a human being, I think.

[balban]

Well, there is a difference between mutilating a spider with a complex nervous system and a reason to be alive as a human being, I think. So you are saying that, in your mind, there is some kind of a delineation between what is worthy of life and what is not?

[erik]

So you are saying that, in your mind, there is some kind of a delineation between what is worthy of life and what is not? Without the ongoing onslaught in our bodies, we wouldn't be here on this planet, this is necessary for our existance.

[snoop]

Erik, my question is that, if you are a christian and believe Jesus to be the son of God and our savior, how then is it possible for us to go to Hell? Jesus died for our sins, so that we may be forgiven and therefore not go to Hell. God loves us and he sent Jesus to give us that message, and again, he died to save us. Why is it people can still go to hell, in your eyes? I'm no longer christian, though my family is protestant. However, this has always been my understanding of christianity.

[erik]

Erik, my question is that, if you are a christian and believe Jesus to be the son of God and our savior, how then is it possible for us to go to Hell? Jesus died for our sins, so that we may be forgiven and therefore not go to Hell. God loves us and he sent Jesus to give us that message, and again, he died to save us. Why is it people can still go to hell, in your eyes? I'm no longer christian, though my family is protestant. However, this has always been my understanding of christianity. If people behave like animals on this planet towards other living beings, Jesus will not forgive them, I believe that if you are a good person, Jesus will forgive because Jesus is there for all people, He doesn't exclude anybody. So if you are a good person, I wouldn't worry to much

[Original Poster]

What did you have for breakfast this morning?

[erik]

What did you have for breakfast this morning? I didn't have breakfast

[Sivason]

What a person can do is choose not to kill to the extent that it is possible. What does it matter if Erik kills bacteria? No degree of caution can avoid it, so it does not reflect on his choices. Also, accidently killing a spider is much different than doing it for fun. The defining factor is intent. Erik, you can not bring back the spider and you can not avoid killing some life in the future. It helps that you have regret. But how can you do more? You can live a life in which you help bugs a and other life when most people would not. I have spent time after rain storms putting worms back into the grass that have ended up I the gutter. Things like that. You are right that forgiveness is not for those who continue doing the thing they need forgiveness for. But I say regret is only one step, taking action to improve the lives of others will go much further.

[balban]

What a person can do is choose not to kill to the extent that it is possible. What does it matter if Erik kills bacteria? No degree of caution can avoid it, so it does not reflect on his choices. Also, accidently killing a spider is much different than doing it for fun. The defining factor is intent. This is the point I was leading up to. What I still don't understand is the deeply felt emotional turmoil over the accidental death of a spider and how the act relates to forgiveness. Then when the OP seemed to draw a line between significance and insignificance it totally confused me. I will assume that the OP eats. Does this act require forgiveness as well? Plants don't have complex nervous systems so these lifeforms aren't significant? I just don't get it.

[erik]

This is the point I was leading up to. What I still don't understand is the deeply felt emotional turmoil over the accidental death of a spider and how the act relates to forgiveness. Then when the OP seemed to draw a line between significance and insignificance it totally confused me. I will assume that the OP eats. Does this act require forgiveness as well? Plants don't have complex nervous systems so these lifeforms aren't significant? I just don't get it. We have to eat to stay alive, don't we? If we pray to God before we eat, He will accept it and we can eat it.

[erik]

What a person can do is choose not to kill to the extent that it is possible. What does it matter if Erik kills bacteria? No degree of caution can avoid it, so it does not reflect on his choices. Also, accidently killing a spider is much different than doing it for fun. The defining factor is intent. Erik, you can not bring back the spider and you can not avoid killing some life in the future. It helps that you have regret. But how can you do more? You can live a life in which you help bugs a and other life when most people would not. I have spent time after rain storms putting worms back into the grass that have ended up I the gutter. Things like that. You are right that forgiveness is not for those who continue doing the thing they need forgiveness for. But I say regret is only one step, taking action to improve the lives of others will go much further. Cheers to that, I didn't kill any insect since the spider accident and I am confident I will not waist any other life in the future. You wrote: "taking action to improve the lives of others will go much further." I can say that I will take action to improve the lives of others

[OneUp]

A few trolls here