Thread: thoughts of why people hate Christians

^ I'm the same way, only instead of saying 'bless you' I take certain names in vain when I get peeved off. I don't actually mean it of course. It's just a habit that I picked up from the adults around me when I was a kid and it stuck.

I have no problem at all with people blessing me. Except this one time it was pretty weird, it was at Taco Bell, and this geeky freshman drama-club type kid was working the drive thru and he had a weid, too-intense look on his face the entire time and was talking really loud and aggressively the entire time - I think he was like bipolar or something. Anyway, when he handed me my food he leaned way in to my car, right in my face, ad sort of shouted "GOD BLESS YOU!!" like he was really angry and cursing me out or something, then stayed there for a little too long staring hard at me. I smiled trying not to actually laugh at him, and said "Thanks!" - but yeah, that one was pretty weird. Not because he said it though.

And I don't think anybody is expected to say Happy Holidays unless you're working with the public or something. I can understand that in a way though only from an overly PC perspective. But I see it as being along the same lines as expecting counter people (anti-humans, right?) to not be human at all really, but instead programming them to say robotic things to safeguard the companies against lawsuits. Nobody cares if an individual says Merry Christmas. Heck, I greatly prefer that, and I'm an atheist!

Seeing as how Christmas is a pagan holiday and according the bible you would probably be stoned to death and go to hell for celebrating it, I don't think saying marry Christmas is really religious either. That said I can understand why some might still find it annoying, and there is no real ban on saying it. Just some businesses prefer to be more open to a wider range of people so they tell their employees to keep that in mind.

Oh, when I was talking about the "God bless you" thing, it was not for sneezing. Here in Brazil, when someone sneezes, we say "saúde", which translates as "health". Basically, you're wishing them health and that's it.

When I say I get uncomfortable when people say "God bless you", it's when they do it as a way of saying goodbye... especially the ones who don't know me (like people in stores).

May The Force be with you!

Cheers

Originally Posted by LucidAurora

May The Force be with you!

SEE!? I DON'T KNOW HOW TO REACT TO IT AND NOW YOU'VE MADE ME FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE!!!





I'm kidding... but only because I totally wish I were a Jedi.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

I do actually believe the liberals are pushing this thing too far, now that I understand their agenda. They want to destroy marriages and families and religion so people only have the state to turn to to fill the holes left by those things, thats why they back feminism (which is brutal on marriages and families) and ban religion anywhere they think they can.

[sarcasm]Yeah, all liberals are totally like that.[/sarcasm]

Yeah, that's totally like what I said

Originally Posted by Daniel1966

the answer....Ryan White.

Every day hundreds of innocent children are taken from us by car accidents. Please stop this sinful lifestyle of car driving.

To be honest with you, the real reason people hate Christians is they keep propagating drivel propeganda like you've posted and people are more socially conscious than they used to be and we're getting tired of it, especially when you justify it with an at best unproven and at worst demonstrably false "religious" reason.

Originally Posted by ♥Mark

Every day hundreds of innocent children are taken from us by car accidents. Please stop this sinful lifestyle of car driving.

To be honest with you, the real reason people hate Christians is they keep propagating drivel propeganda like you've posted and people are more socially conscious than they used to be and we're getting tired of it, especially when you justify it with an at best unproven and at worst demonstrably false "religious" reason.

Nobody is forcing you to believe what, in your words, is a "demonstrably false religious reason." You're free to believe what you want to believe.
~SilverWolf~

How is that in any way a response to what ♥Mark just said? You did the same thing to me just above, where I said absolutely nothing about 'all liberals'. Is this your argument tactic? Willfully misconstruing what someone says and then responding to your misapprehension?

No, I was making a point that nobody is trying to force him to believe what he labels as "propoganda." Just because a preacher or Christian on the news states their opinion on something doesn't mean they are trying to shove their, as Mark calls it, "drivel" at people. Nobody is trying to force him to latch onto their beliefs (except maybe the more radical people anyway, but every group has their radicals). And, labeling Christian beliefs and opinions as "drivel" and "propaganda" is highly judgmental on his part.

And do tell me how I misconstrued what you said, Dark Matters?

~SilverWolf~

Ironic, because what you did to me is exactly what you accuse ♥Mark of doing (and note I did him the honor of actually spelling his name right - would be nice if you could do that). What does 'the liberal agenda' have to do with 'all liberals'? All liberals implies you're talking about voters who actually believe in the liberal ideals. The liberal agenda is a mercenary political plot being pushed by a group of career politicians who have everything to gain by dividing and conquering the population, turning race against race and gender against gender, religions against each other and against the non-religious, making large groups of people believe they're oppressed and inviting in illegals with open arms all to ensure these groups will be democratic voters. These are radicals. (And I'm not even bringing up the sarcasm, which is pretty much a killer of intelligent conversation).

Really? You're going to get ticked off because I didn't put the little heart in front of Mark's name? Did it ever cross your mind that I didn't know how to do that?

And yes, I suppose I did kinda lump all liberals together into one class, though I might add that many (see, I'm not generalizing anymore) liberals do the same thing with conservatives or republicans. We humans generalize. Yeah, it sucks and we shouldn't do it, but we do. And I actually agree with you on what you said of the liberal agenda; but it seems to me, from everything I see on the news, that most liberals share in this agenda. Maybe this isn't the case, but that is what it looks like. Maybe those that don't should get out and speak and let their voices be heard. But, that's another debate entirely.

~SilverWolf~

Originally Posted by TheSilverWolf

Really? You're going to get ticked off because I didn't put the little heart in front of Mark's name? Did it ever cross your mind that I didn't know how to do that?

Are you actually being serious now? No wait, I know you're not, because I just came from another thread you just now posted on where you spelled my name 2 different ways (both differently than you did here) and the last time it was right, so I know you're aware that you've been misspelling my name. This tends to make me think I was right that you like to deliberately misconstrue what people say.

Originally Posted by TheSilverWolf

And yes, I suppose I did kinda lump all liberals together into one class, though I might add that many (see, I'm not generalizing anymore) liberals do the same thing with conservatives or republicans. We humans generalize. Yeah, it sucks and we shouldn't do it, but we do. And I actually agree with you on what you said of the liberal agenda; but it seems to me, from everything I see on the news, that most liberals share in this agenda. Maybe this isn't the case, but that is what it looks like. Maybe those that don't should get out and speak and let their voices be heard. But, that's another debate entirely.

~SilverWolf~

If you agreed with what I said then why did you make that sarcastic remark indicating that you don't?

How on earth would you be able to tell what most liberals think from watching TV? You do realize that mainstream media is slanted strongly toward the left, right?

Your post just confused the living heck out of me. First, with the name thing, it's called a typo. Yes, I type your name a few different ways. It happens, I've even done that with other people at forums I used to be a part of, and nobody else ever seemed to get offended. So I apologize, Darmatters for misspelling your name, since it's that important to you. And yes, I *am* being serious, I've no idea how to get that heart in front of someone's name; but instead of considering the possibility that I might not know how to do that, you automatically presume that I'm doing it on purpose. AND, you also act like it's SO disrespectful to accidentally misspell someone's username or type it up properly. Damn, I had no idea I was going to be held to college level grammar and spelling in this thread, OR that it would be *that* big of a deal if I didn't.

Yep, you're still doing it. What you seem to be saying here at first is "Ok, now I see where I completely misunderstood your point, but rather than actually respond to it, I'm going to make a lame excuse, to the effect that lots of people misunderstand things!"

And then you switch tactics entirely and say you think all liberals do that (the exact opposite f your sarcastic comment above) and that you actually agree with me. This is extremely comvoluted and leaves your real position totally unclear. If you agreed with what I said then why did you make that sarcastic remark indicating that you don't?

r

I wasn't making a lame excuse, I was stating a fact; that being just because someone misunderstands your post, you needn't automatically assume they're being jerks. Now if we've dealt with that little misunderstanding, let's move on shall we?

You said my stance is unclear? Here it is, condensed:

many on the left seem intent to start a war on religion--not just Christianity either, though they seem to take the brunt of it. Those same people also seem to be, as Darkmatters so eloquently put it, starting a race war and trying to divide the country. Where we differ is that Darkmatters believes it's just the fringe liberals, the extremists that hold this agenda. I am a bit skeptical on this point, feeling that it may be more than just a few extremist leftists who hold this agenda. I see on the news how many liberals seem to tout the same extremist views, and it makes it appear as if more than a few follow those beliefs. Is it really just a few extremists who seem to want to end religious freedom's?

If it IS just a small fringe group of liberals who have those views, then perhaps the ones that still believe in religious freedoms, who believe we shouldn't hate Christians or any other religious group, should do something more to get their voices heard. Because right now, all you ever see on the news is story after story exemplifying the left's attempts to undermine religious freedom and really coming after Christians and other religious groups. Could be that it's simply the smaller group is speaking loudest, as is many times the case. If so, perhaps it's time for the mainstream to speak louder.

I don't think Christians have a right to force their views on other people any more than I think others have a right to try and stop Christians from being allowed to show or state their beliefs. I think Christians are a target of a great deal of hate right now, and some people seem to even be trying to make it to where you can't show, in any way, that you believe in God, be it praying in front of other people or the use of certain terminology like saying "happy holidays" instead of Merry Christmas.

THERE is where I stand, since you said I was somehow making my views unclear. And maybe you can stop disrespecting me and quibbling just because I misspell a name or don't know how to put a symbol in front of someone's name; AND maybe you can stop accusing ME of disrespecting other people when I think I've done a pretty good job of keeping civil and respectful to other people.

~SilverWolf~

Ok, I messed up TheSilverWolf (sorry, couldn't rest) - I thought it was you who had made that sarcastic remark above, but now I see it was somebody else - that clears up a good deal of the misunderstanding, and I apologize for that.

To clear up your ongoing misunderstanding I was not complaining about how you spelled ♥Mark's name but because you kept misspelling mine! Not sure how you could have continued to misunderstand that for so long. (and copy/paste works wonders with those weird little symbols in names - I have no dea how to type that either ).

Ah, well then, Misunderstandings solved lol. It does help one one isn't mistaken for another poster, doesn't it

(And I suppose it helps when one doesn't spell someone's name 3 different ways )

~SilverWolf~

Lol ok, I'm sorry man... time to hug it out!!

LOL! How about a handshake instead :p

on the bright side, I'm unlikely to ever misspell your name again. DaRkmaTtErs

"You don't want to hug me??!!"
(lol, read his lips - it actually looks like that's what he's saying!)

And I really wanted the full-on sweaty man-hug in tights!

LOL that is funny!



Does he kinda look like Johnny Fairplay from Survivor--if he had a beard and took steroids !!

Originally Posted by JoannaB

I say "Bless you!" when someone sneezes because that's my knee jerk reaction, and I do not think ahead of saying that, and no I do not actually have any reason to say it (of course sneezing has no connection to the devil for me), and I do not even think of God when I say "Bless you!" to a sneezing person, but if you asked me what i mean by it I do think of me wishing them health, and that's my knee jerk way of doing it.

The more fundamental thing happening here is that sneezing is awkward and disconcerting for both the sneezer and the listener, and it helps to have a small ritual to dispel the uneasiness. There's a basic, human reason for it, much like there's a basic, human reason to hold a feast and encourage people to connect with loved ones in the dead of winter. The folktales are the most superficial aspect of these practices, but it doesn't mean the practices are pointless. Personally, I say "Bless you" when someone sneezes and just don't mention that it's the blessing of Avalokiteshvara, bodhisattva of compassion. I don't object to being on the receiving end of any blessing sincerely offered, either, but there are times when "God bless you" is not a blessing, which I'll address below.

Originally Posted by TheSilverWolf

I'm going to dip a toe into this conversation here. As a Christian myself, I have noticed that our country of the USA is quickly turning from a country of religious freedoms to a country where the government is allowed to step more and more into what we believe/don't believe and even institutions are being allowed to start discriminating against Christianity. Now, before I go any further, I will also say that I've noticed this trend with religion in general in the US, but there seems to be a special emphasis on Christianity. For example, there was a case a while back where, during his graduation, a student (high school or college, I can't remember which), was thanking various people during his graduation speech. Well, he started mentioning thanking God and how much God helped him on his path, and the freaking principle of the school shut off his microphone!

Another incident? It's now considered improper to use the term Merry Christmas, because it might offend non-christians. Instead, we're to use the terms happy holidays. People have been warned and against using certain terms in various work places like Sam's Club and Fred Meyers--terns like "God Bless You" or "Merry Christmas."

The above are not examples of the secular Man keeping you down, but examples of soapboxes that your fellow Christians misuse on a regular basis, ruining it for everybody. Because very often when someone with a public platform, even one so small as a retail counter, makes a point of saying "God bless you," "Merry Christmas," or "Have a blessed day," it is very much intended to offend, ostracize and/or shame non-Christians within hearing. It's not even proselytizing; it's just an us-vs-them mentality, reinforcing to (some, narrow-minded) Christians who hear it that they are on the right side and intended to let non-Christians know that they are on the wrong side. It's passive aggressive.

In a casual encounter, most non-Christians and many Christians just react with annoyance at or pity for the speaker's mindset. There are still plenty of companies and institutions, however, where not responding appropriately to those challenges--not at least paying lip service to Christian hegemony--has real consequences. Plenty of nominally secular schools and legislatures still fit that description.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

I do actually believe the liberals are pushing this thing too far, now that I understand their agenda. They want to destroy marriages and families and religion so people only have the state to turn to to fill the holes left by those things, thats why they back feminism (which is brutal on marriages and families) and ban religion anywhere they think they can.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

The liberal agenda is a mercenary political plot being pushed by a group of career politicians who have everything to gain by dividing and conquering the population, turning race against race and gender against gender, religions against each other and against the non-religious, making large groups of people believe they're oppressed and inviting in illegals with open arms all to ensure these groups will be democratic voters.

Just FYI and not to derail the thread, but these are not reasonable statements. Bringing lizard men into the mix would only marginally increase the batshit quotient.

^ Not sure what you mean by that. Are you saying race-baiters and radfems (1) don't have an agenda, or (2) that they're not liberal?

Because very often when someone with a public platform, even one so small as a retail counter, makes a point of saying "God bless you," "Merry Christmas," or "Have a blessed day," it is very much intended to offend, ostracize and/or shame non-Christians within hearing. It's not even proselytizing; it's just an us-vs-them mentality, reinforcing to (some, narrow-minded) Christians who hear it that they are on the right side and intended to let non-Christians know that they are on the wrong side. It's passive aggressive.

And how can you say what's going through my mind when I say Merry Christmas or God Bless You? You can't say that I'm intending to ostracize and shame you, as a non-believer (if indeed you are, which it sounds like). And why Merry Christmas? The NAME of the holiday is Christmas, so what is so religious about saying Merry Christmas anyway? It's ridiculous to say the least. Not to mention that to presume that any Christian saying this is doing to to cause shame and ridicule is not only incredulous but false and highly judgmental.

I'll also take a risk here by saying that I believe most Christians genuinely want to follow the Bible and God's teachings. If you constantly berate and ostracize non-Christians, then you are actually going against the Bibles teachings, as Jesus told us to love one another, and spent his time teaching forgiveness. I'll grant you this much: I think many Christian ministers spend too much focus on the fire and brimstone teachings, when Jesus himself spent most of his time preaching love, forgiveness, and caring for one another. There is a place for the discussion of hell, and revelations too, but I don't think that should be the focus, because Jesus himself, the SON of God, didn't feel the need to focus so much on that.

But I certainly disagree with your outlook that Christianity in general is trying to demean people, or make them feel bad because they don't believe in God--that just simply is not the case.


Didn't finish my post before you posted, Darkmatters, and so now I have to add this :

Don't forget Oprah, comparing Treyvon Martin to that lynching that took place. Or every person out there screaming "Justice for Treyvon" even when the case is already finished. You know, even people who believed OJ Simpson got away with murder didn't make as much a fuss as those people are about Treyvon. Of course, that's probably getting into another topic entirely--a very interesting one.


~SilverWolf~