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dreamviews certainly hates christians. or are really gay for them, i never know. because every time, without fail, a christian makes a little innocuous post, maybe a sentence long, maybe two, there will be roughly ten to fifteen militant atheists in the thread immediately, ready for their next gangbang.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus of Suburbia
Par for the course in a section of the forum designed for, you know, debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grod
Why do people hate christians....
such a loaded question...Apparently you feel victim to someone's hatred toward you. From my experience, some Christians take any criticism of their faith entirely too personally and seriously. Its like a little kid getting all pissed cuz somebody said their dad is better.
Anyway, let me give an honest answer.
There are several things that could cause people to see Christians and Christianity in a negative light.
1. They had a negative experience with a Christian. This could be anything from getting told they are going to hell at their front door to being subjugated or abused by their spiritual authority.
2. The dogma inherent in current religious systems leaves no space for growth, individualism, or freedom of thought. Every thought must be brought under subjection according to the Bible. People take this way too seriously and will ostracize anyone who thinks contrary to their beliefs. Basically, they cannot handle possibly being wrong. They have to be right, no matter what. THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREEEEEE....
3. The innumerable injustices done to people through the ages in the name of Christianity. Purges, crusades, mercy killings, witch hunts, and the list goes on...If ever someone needs an excuse to do something heinous, all that need be done is declare that god gave them permission. This is especially apparent in disputes in "the holy land".
4. Many extreme Christians are using their religion to undermine any social or scientific advancement our civilization has attained. Evolution: its of the devil, abolishing slavery: against gods word, women's rights: against scripture, gender equality: against gods word again, Television: tool of satan, Internet: another tool of satan...
5. Pretty much any reason you can think of, some bat shit insano Christian has come up with.
As Gandhi once so aptly stated: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Being an idealist only works if you are actually striving toward the ideal. Unfortunately Jesus has become one of the most abused, and misused symbols in history. He has become an excuse, a justification for the spreading of fear and hatred.
That is why so many people dislike your Christianity.
This forum was solely designed for debate? Hardly. Debate is only the progression of discussion. If only r/s' primary focus was discussion, it might actually evolve from it's eternal existence as a cesspit of cringing contention. Debate hardly works, even outside of the internet. A debate on religion is so unlikely to change anyone's mind it's laughable. And the success rate of a religious debate, on the internet? Well, I'll let you figure that one out for yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUELINE976
Discussion of religion is far more constructive, enjoyable, and dare I say- informative -than drudging up the same old arguments we've all seen on here year after year after year. I don't understand how the r/s regulars can find the energy to do it. I can't help but think of Sisyphus rolling his boulder up the hill in Hades. Maybe this time is the charm, right?
Pretty sure most people just check every so often, there are no real "regulars". This section is dead as fuck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grod
Perhaps you missed the description of R/S.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grod
This forum is for any and all religious discussions and debates. We recommend you avoid this forum if you dislike your views, beliefs and opinions being challenged.
I hate religion . . .
Well aren't you just a special little snowflake.Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidAurora
I think it's ignorance from both parts. Trying to force others to believe in Christianity and to live according to the Bible, judging them if they don't, is bad. People are free to do whatever they want to do, as long as they're not harming others. On the other hand, believing that all religious people are narrow-minded and won't respect you if you're not religious is equally bad.
Personally, I'm not religious. I don't even know how to do that. I could never follow any religion because I don't know how to believe. I do, however, respect religion. It helps many people in many ways. Sure, there's always a nutjob trying to preach their religion to others, but there are many atheist nutjobs trying to convince us that their views are the right ones. It goes both ways.
Just one last thing I'd like to add (well, ask, actually) about this, though, it's about something I read somewhere on this thread. I think someone said Jesus was against religion, but wasn't he just against people who only pretended to be religious, but were "corrupted" and didn't follow... whatever they were supposed to follow? Wasn't Jesus Jewish?
Each of us is special in our own little way . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus of Suburbia
Perhaps you missed the entire point of my post. Perhaps you should read it again. Perhaps I'm asking WHY you bother trying to debate religion in r/s. Perhaps you should accept your views in this forum being challenged rather than trying to avoid the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUELINE976
And - I found something interesting:
I don't see you mentioning "discussion" a couple days ago, what happened? Perhaps you missed the description of R/S.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUELINE976
>This forum is for any and all religious discussions and debates. We recommend you avoid this forum if you dislike your views, beliefs and opinions being challenged.
I'm going to dip a toe into this conversation here. As a Christian myself, I have noticed that our country of the USA is quickly turning from a country of religious freedoms to a country where the government is allowed to step more and more into what we believe/don't believe and even institutions are being allowed to start discriminating against Christianity. Now, before I go any further, I will also say that I've noticed this trend with religion in general in the US, but there seems to be a special emphasis on Christianity. For example, there was a case a while back where, during his graduation, a student (high school or college, I can't remember which), was thanking various people during his graduation speech. Well, he started mentioning thanking God and how much God helped him on his path, and the freaking principle of the school shut off his microphone!
Another incident? It's now considered improper to use the term Merry Christmas, because it might offend non-christians. Instead, we're to use the terms happy holidays. People have been warned and against using certain terms in various work places like Sam's Club and Fred Meyers--terns like "God Bless You" or "Merry Christmas."
Children have been suspended from school for wearing Christian-themed T-shirts. The list goes on and on and on. It is getting rediculous. Might I remind both Christians and atheists alike in this thread--and other religious denominations as well, that (at least for those of us posting from the US) that this is still a free country that allow religious freedom. We shouldn't bash and hate people just for their religious beliefs! Likewise, there are a lot of "fire and brimstone" preachers that, for men of God, are amazingly judgemental.
If anything, Jesus taught us to LOVE one another, and to FORGIVE. I'm pretty sure he'd be pretty upset to see Christians "hating" other people who aren't Christian themselves--and there are those that act like that, snooty, as if they are almighty and the non-christians are slime.
That said, I don't think this is the majority--they just tend to have the loudest voices, or are in the public light more often. Much like those news broadcasts that show the most out there people at a Star Trek convention instead of the more 'normal' fans. On the other hand, I would say to those who aren't Christian to stop judging our faith on the actions of a few. Those who aren't Christians don't want those of the Christian Faith to judge them? Then they need to stop judging us as well, and using derogatory terms to describe Christians, like "Bible Thumpers" a term that really gets under my skin.
~SilverWolf~
Most of the religious 'freedoms' people complain about losing involve them losing their right to push their religion on others against those other people's wishes. Things like not being allowed to force their religion on others by putting the ten commandments in a public court house. Not being allowed to push their religion on others by having the public schools lead school enforced prayer. Not being allowed to force their religion on others by having their fairy tale of intelligent design replacing actual science. Not being allowed to ban gay couples from marrying because of their own personal religious beliefs.
Also why does it upset you that jobs that require people to interact with customers are told to be open and friendly to non-religious people? They say to not say god bless you because they want a friendly atmosphere that is more inclusive to all their customers. How is that a bad thing? You are basically saying your right to force your religion on others should be more important than the customers comfort, which is silly and bad for business.
It upsets me because A: we have a right to freedom of speech and B: we have a right to express our religious beliefs (in theory). Thus, if one person says "God Bless You" to another, what is wrong with that? If person B is not a Christian, why should they be offended that person A offered them a blessing? If anything, they should take it as what it is--a well meant and friendly comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
Why can't a job be friendly and open to religious people? Non-religious people should be the only ones that people are open and friendly to, while the religious have to keep their mouth's shut and not express their beliefs? That's kinda crossing a line, don't you think? If someone is free to express their atheist beliefs, then shouldn't those who are religious be able to express their belief in whatever faith they follow, be it Christian, Buddhism, Muslim, Judaism, etc. etc.?
The freedoms I complain about losing doesn't involve me pushing my faith onto others against their wishes. it is me being able to express my beliefs as anyone else is supposed to be allowed to do.
And also to note, I'm not against forced prayer either, but if a child or adolescent wants to pray in school, they shouldn't be told they can't, or that they have to do it in private. That totally undermines what America is all about!
~SilverWolf~
You can express your freedom of speech all you want, and your boss has the right to fire you for peddling your religion when you should be working. Your rights doesn't trump other people's rights. It isn't a friendly comment like you claim it is. If a person is upset and they say they don't want your blessing then you try to force it on them any way, how is that friendly?
If your goal was to be friendly, then why not just respect other people's wishes? You want to express yourself at the consequence of annoying others, you can do that all you want but don't pretend like you are doing it to be friendly. How is saying something that is friendly to all people anti religious? And how is saying something only a specific subgroup of people would appreciate and other find annoying being friendly to all? It seems like you got it backwards. They are trying to be inclusive to everyone, including religious people and you have a problem with it, why?
I feel weird when someone says "God bless you" to me. I never know what to say back. Thank you? Amen? God bless you too? I know it's a nice thing to say, my aunt always says it to me and I know she says it because she loves me, but... to me, it's just as weird as if someone would say "may the Force be with you". I don't believe in it and I don't know how to respond to it, so I end up feeling awkward and uncomfortable.
I would think that if you do not believe in it yourself, "Thank you" would be the right response to your aunt or "I love you, too"? I would not say "Amen" or "God bless you too" if that is not what you believe because then you would not be true to yourself. You can presumable thank your aunt for her good intensions even if you do not believe what she said but you appreciate the love behind it, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelpotter
Why do people debate anything? To exchange ideas, to prove someone wrong (or right), to boost their ego, who knows? In my mind, a debate can be a discussion. There are two sides (usually) with opposing ideas (usually), and they talk it out, civilized or uncivilized. What you want are civilized debates. Admirable, but there is no polite way to tell somebody they're wrong or have wasted their life.[/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Grod
I usually respond with thank you, yeah... but I still feel weird about it. It's just a very out of my comfort zone situation, I guess. But with my aunt, at least I know and love her. When strangers say it to me, it's infinitely worse. So that's why I have to agree with people not saying in stores/restaurants/etc. I really don't know how to react to it. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by JoannaB
Wait - was this a mistake, or did you actually mean you believe non-religious people, or people of different religions, should be forced to pray christian prayers?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilverWolf
Now you've completely lost me. Nobody is being told they can't pray in public schools, just that it's no longer mandatory and that it won't be led by the teachers. But of course it needs to be in private!! What do you mean it shouldn't be in private, are you saying that if one kid decides he wants to pray in class, on school time, that the entire rest of the class should sit quietly while he prays out loud and disrupts the class? And what if there are kids of different religions in the same class? Do they each get their turn to pray aloud as the rest of the class sits silently wasting their time?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilverWolf
That would mean the kids are now in charge and can do whatever they want - what if some atheist kid decides he wants to sing a song, and while he's singing he thinks everybody else should either join in or sit quietly and do nothing until he's finished?
I have a better idea - how about people pray in church, and learn stuff in school? Why is it necessary to pray at that particular time anyway, while you're supposed to be learning? Should kids also be able to stop church services while they do some algebra? If you want your kids to pray on school time, how about you send them to a religious school?
Can't prayers be said silently and in just a few seconds? In a way that doesn't disrupt class time? Can't they be said sometime when you're not in school? I don't get why it needs to be right then and there.
OOPS, yeah, I MEANT to say I'm NOT for forced prayer either, LOL! Darn typos!Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmatters
What I mean by they shouldn't be forced to pray in private is this: Take my example of the kid at his graduation? Why should his microphone be cut off the second he starts thanking God? For that matter, why should the child who believes in God, be told he can't pray before taking an exam? Why is it he can be told not to pray at lunch, because it might *offend* other people in the cafeteria with him or her? Why should they have to either pray in their church or at home? Prayer is a part of life for any Christian, in all parts of their life from school, to private life. Finally, will you please tell me why a child choosing to pray disrupts class? I mean, it's not like they're dropping into prayer right in the middle of a lecture (if they are, maybe the teacher's lecture is a little dry? :p).
As for the "God Bless You" thing, again I ask, since it has not been adequately answered. WHY should it offend a non-Christian, when a Christian states "God Bless You?" Just stating that to someone isn't shoving their beliefs down their throat. This is usually used as a goodbye or a welcome by most Christians. If I say "Hello, God Bless You," to someone who doesn't believe in God, instead of getting pissed off because I dared use the word "God" in their presence, maybe they should instead say "Thank you." Or, at worst, "Thanks, but I don't believe in God."
It seems to me that those who aren't religious take every tiny thing that a religious person does, and uses the excuse "you're throwing your religion down my throat" just so they don't mention anything about God. Just because the non-religious want nothing to do with God, doesn't mean that the religious shouldn't be allowed to mention His Name in public. Honestly, to me it comes off as whining and makes me want to call the Waaaaahmbulance.
~SilverWolf~
Ok, that's what I was hoping you meant! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilverWolf
How can anyone stop you from praying, before an exam or any other time? Just don't do it out loud. Then everybody's happy, no?
Yes, they would be, except there are cases--granted, these aren't exactly COMMON, but they do happen--there the teacher or someone else sees the child praying; you know, head bowed, hands together, and complains. And because of said complaint, the principle or someone on the schoolboard jumps in, telling that child they can't do that anymore. To me, that sort of thing undermines what America is about. As an American citizen yourself, Darkmatters, who obviously cares about our freedom's, don't you think that is pushing things too far? That's basically allowing atheists to force their non-belief onto the religious!
Let me tell you a story from when I was in High School. There was one case where a Jew was wearing that thing on their head--I have no idea what it's called, but it has religious symbolism to them; he was told he had to remove it, or he couldn't come to class! Or how about when some teacher decides a student can't carry a bible into class? I'm not saying the kid ought to be sitting there reading his bible while in the middle of class when he's supposed to be learning, but to not even be allowed to bring it IN? To me, that's going too far.
~SilverWolf~
I do think that's too far. Unless that was a time when the kid was supposed to be paying attention of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilverWolf
I do actually believe the liberals are pushing this thing too far, now that I understand their agenda. They want to destroy marriages and families and religion so people only have the state to turn to to fill the holes left by those things, thats why they back feminism (which is brutal on marriages and families) and ban religion anywhere they think they can. Hey, as long as I'm not expected to join in on prayer myself and it doesn't take more than a minute or 2, I'd be cool with a moment for prayer in certain situations like school, football games etc. - I see no problem with it personally. I don't want to hear the prayers - christian, muslim or otherwise. But a moment for silent prayer would be cool with me. Maybe atheists can think about evolution or something.. :cheeky:
His microphone probably got cut off because the school told him to respect other people and he ignored the school and started pushing his beliefs on others. Also you are allowed to pray in school and during lunch and all that. All that is fine, I have known several people who have prayed in school and never got in any trouble. When someone does it is likely because they were doing something extremely disrupted. If my religious called for me to scream out loudly, would you be supportive of a stupid screaming out prayers before every test?
Most people are probably not offended by you saying bless you, but that is because they are used to it. That doesn't make it any more weird, and someone on this forum even said they found it very uncomfortable. Let me ask you this, why do you want to say god bless you? Is it because you believe evil spirits is trying to possess a person who sneezed or that their soul is escaping their body and you want it to come back? Or is it just something you are used to? It shouldn't be surprising that people think it is weird that you are blessing them so the devil doesn't steal their soul while they sneeze.