Thread: God is the null hypothesis

Originally Posted by JoannaB

belief in God requires a leap of faith and is not based on logic alone, and if one is not willing to make that leap of faith, there is room for doubt, because this is not a question to be solved or dismissed by logic alone.

This argument fundamentally flawed.

Before we can ever make a leap of faith shouldn't we have a justification that the position to which we are jumping will guarantee us a profitable outcome?. Anyone who has not yet made the leap of faith does not have the sufficient knowledge to truly understand god, and thus cannot make a judgement outside of logic, in turn that said person must use logic to decide in which religion to place his "leap of faith".

What if it turned out that the Islam was right and that Catholicism was wrong and you placed your leap of faith in the wrong one.

Basically your argument states that to reach an alleviated state of knowledge without the need for logic, you first have to logically assume that the leap of faith in your chosen religion is the right one, but you cannot say for certain because you have no idea if said religion exists because you are confined to logic.

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

This argument fundamentally flawed.

Before we can ever make a leap of faith shouldn't we have a justification that the position to which we are jumping will guarantee us a profitable outcome?. Anyone who has not yet made the leap of faith does not have the sufficient knowledge to truly understand god, and thus cannot make a judgement outside of logic, in turn that said person must use logic to decide in which religion to place his "leap of faith".

What if it turned out that the Islam was right and that Catholicism was wrong and you placed your leap of faith in the wrong one.

Basically your argument states that to reach an alleviated state of knowledge without the need for logic, you first have to logically assume that the leap of faith in your chosen religion is the right one, but you cannot say for certain because you have no idea if said religion exists because you are confined to logic.

Not necessarily. Your argument presupposes that one religion is right and that this means that all others are wrong. I believe that there is more than one path to salvation, and that every religion has some truth in it and some things that are wrong because all religion are flawed because they are human interpretations based on human bias and political and cultural misinterpretations, but that does not mean that they do not have some truth in them as well. Personally I am Christian, and I believe/hope that Christianity has enough right to lead to salvation, although I do believe that I can and should try to learn from other faiths as well and be open minded in my spirituality. I also do not believe that if you are an Atheist that necessarily means that you are doomed to hell, and I understand your reluctance to make the leap of faith. Personally I think that any spiritual faith is preferable to none at all, but even someone who has no faith can be a good person, and I believe in a loving God, who through his infinite grace will forgive mistakes and misunderstandings, as long as a person made the best effort to be the best they can be and to seek out knowledge and improve their understanding to become a better person. I believe that it is our responsibility to question and to seek out truth. Now my understanding of truth is not based on logic alone, but logic is one of the tools available to us.

Edit: To clarify, when I say that personally I believe that any faith is better than none, I do not mean that I am better than you if you are an atheist. I am not trying to convert you. What I mean by it is that I believe that faith is valuable in all kinds of religious flavors, and I believe that people who do not have any faith in any spirituality may have a harder time grasping the truth which I believe will be revealed to all when God is ready for that. I believe that having the willingness to have faith is a virtue in and of itself, and while of course it does matter what one believes but I think that many beliefs that we believe to be contradictory may not actually be - there may be more false dichotomies in religions than believers are willing to admit in closed minded biased belief.

Edit2: I also do believe that I am likely wrong in some of my beliefs. In fact I am sure I am wrong in some of them. I try to improve them, and try to figure out what is true, and I hope and believe that over time I am moving in the right direction in my spirituality, which has and continues to evolve.

Originally Posted by JoannaB

Not necessarily. Your argument presupposes that one religion is right and that this means that all others are wrong. I believe that there is more than one path to salvation, and that every religion has some truth in it and some things that are wrong because all religion are flawed because they are human interpretations based on human bias and political and cultural misinterpretations, but that does not mean that they do not have some truth in them as well. Personally I am Christian, and I believe/hope that Christianity has enough right to lead to salvation, although I do believe that I can and should try to learn from other faiths as well and be open minded in my spirituality. I also do not believe that if you are an Atheist that necessarily means that you are doomed to hell, and I understand your reluctance to make the leap of faith. Personally I think that any spiritual faith is preferable to none at all, but even someone who has no faith can be a good person, and I believe in a loving God, who through his infinite grace will forgive mistakes and misunderstandings, as long as a person made the best effort to be the best they can be and to seek out knowledge and improve their understanding to become a better person. I believe that it is our responsibility to question and to seek out truth. Now my understanding of truth is not based on logic alone, but logic is one of the tools available to us.

Edit: To clarify, when I say that personally I believe that any faith is better than none, I do not mean that I am better than you if you are an atheist. I am not trying to convert you. What I mean by it is that I believe that faith is valuable in all kinds of religious flavors, and I believe that people who do not have any faith in any spirituality may have a harder time grasping the truth which I believe will be revealed to all when God is ready for that. I believe that having the willingness to have faith is a virtue in and of itself, and while of course it does matter what one believes but I think that many beliefs that we believe to be contradictory may not actually be - there may be more false dichotomies in religions than believers are willing to admit in closed minded biased belief.

Edit2: I also do believe that I am likely wrong in some of my beliefs. In fact I am sure I am wrong in some of them. I try to improve them, and try to figure out what is true, and I hope and believe that over time I am moving in the right direction in my spirituality, which has and continues to evolve.

Thank you for the long reply.
I don't intend on going in on an argument because I do think that you are to an extent right, and the last edit you made is certainly an admirable point of view and I respect that