Thread: Heaven/Hell for eternity?

Them not having freedom is a side effect of us having to keep them away from potential victims. It isn't the sole goal. Which is why we generally don't condone things like torture and stuff, since that would be punishment for punishments own sake.

I really do think we can solve everything issue, but my main concern is that we basically don't try to help anyone, with anything. Heck we even punish people who never even hurt anyone, like all those people who do drugs. What does any of that solve?

The idea that we need punishment to stop crime is silly. Jail doesn't work as a deterrent. If using punishment worked as a deterrent we wouldn't have the largest prison in the world, and still have one of the highest crime rates in the world. In fact all the studies have shown jail doesn't work as a deterrent at all, so it is utterly pointless. Telling people they will go to hell doesn't work as a deterrent either. The moment people leave the church they go about their business and continue to break any rules they don't agree with.

You haven't answered any of my questions. I always respond to you with specific replies to your statements, and then you post a general response.

Oh well.

Originally Posted by Alric

Them not having freedom is a side effect of us having to keep them away from potential victims. It isn't the sole goal. Which is why we generally don't condone things like torture and stuff, since that would be punishment for punishments own sake.

I really do think we can solve everything issue, but my main concern is that we basically don't try to help anyone, with anything. Heck we even punish people who never even hurt anyone, like all those people who do drugs. What does any of that solve?

The idea that we need punishment to stop crime is silly. Jail doesn't work as a deterrent. If using punishment worked as a deterrent we wouldn't have the largest prison in the world, and still have one of the highest crime rates in the world. In fact all the studies have shown jail doesn't work as a deterrent at all, so it is utterly pointless. Telling people they will go to hell doesn't work as a deterrent either. The moment people leave the church they go about their business and continue to break any rules they don't agree with.

I agree that eternal punishment would be pointless and ridiculous, but I do not agree that the threat of punishment doesn't work as a deterrent. Try teaching at a school where the kids know there are no consequences for disrespect or disruption, and you will see that the threat of punishment is extremely necessary. Why does armed robbery work? Because victims don't want to be hurt or killed. Why don't I smoke pot in public? Because I don't want to go to jail. Why do countries surrender in wars? Because they don't want more damage. Why do rattle snakes rattle, lizards blow up their necks, and cats hiss? They are warnings of punishment, and they help avoid a lot of confrontations. Why do people show up at work on time and follow instructions? Because they don't want to lose their jobs. Why do kids keep secrets of wrong doing from their parents? To avoid punishment. It works. The threat of punishment has a minimal effect on the worst people in society, but you can't use them as the litmus test for the rest of society. Have you ever slowed down because you saw a cop? I have. Why do people run from cops?

The threat of Hell is what had me praying daily for years as a kid. It is what makes some people diagnosably obsessive hand washers. It is what helped make Christianity so popular. When the movie The Exorcist came out, church attendance went way up. The threat of Hell is one of the most brilliant cons of all time.