Thread: Why Christians are not just a load of backwards imbeciles.

Originally Posted by Lynn

More people do not believe in the LORD than the people that do. I never said because they don't see God as I do, they will go to hell. Just, if they don't see the one true God.

"the one True god" is your opinion of what is the true god. So, yes, you ARE saying that people will go to hell if they don't see god as you do.

Why would god send someone he/she/it supposedly loves to an eternal hell for sins committed in a transient world? That sounds completely unjust. Does god love only those who believe in him?

just trying to spread the love

Oooh, this will be fun!

Originally Posted by Lynn

I just asked God to come in me because I was scared of demons, I felt their presence. I turned to the side of my bed, and looked at the picture of the cross hanging by the door. I closed my eyes and asked the LORD to come in me. Nothing happened for two minutes. I then turned to where I was facing up. I saw a white thing come down to me and enter me. I shook, and cried and was sorry for my sins. No big deal, correct?

Sleep paralysis and hypnogogic hallucinations. You should know by now that during those two you usually feel intense fear and paranoia, even if there is nothing there. You can also see these, and because you saw that white thing, you just freaked out even further. You're right, it isn't a big deal!

Don't feel ashamed for missing this. I had very similar experiences, but once you realize that they aren't real and it's just HH and SP, then their "presence" will disappear from your life. They do leave scars, though. ._.

Originally Posted by Lynn

What about the people who have been possesed? Just a hoax? How come the people who have been possessed have been delivered only by Jesus?

Fucking depression or mental illness! They have only been delivered by Jesus because of the placebo effect. The reason is that they are all Christians! They don't think of depression, schizophrenia, or that other stuff! They don't bother to see a psychologist or anything, they just have to be so damn ignorant that they think it's a demon! Bullshit! When they get the "exorcism", the placebo effect gets rid of it, at least for a while.

Originally Posted by Lynn

I also didn't know you shook and cried and everything.

That's because you're not supposed to cry and shake and everything.

Originally Posted by Lynn

1) So, apparently according to you, the people who are possesed are all mentally ill? Mess around with Satanic stuff, and see what happens to you.
2) I don't know who, and I am not referring to the 13/14.

1) Yes. I believe that dark entities (or something similar) are real, but they must be summoned from another plane of existence before they can get you.
2) Self-contradiction. You must believe in Jesus to get to Heaven. If you don't, you go to hell. So, where do the other 13/14 go? Is there another way?

Originally Posted by Lynn

I am not God and cannot explain how odd he is. He is so different than us. He does not want us to go to hell, he loves us. He tries to get them to believe, everyone has a chance. It isn't God who is doing this, either. A certian SOMEONE, or something is tricking them with false religions. I don't think that the people with no chance go to hell, at all. I think God blames it on the parents. The parents should know that it's wrong by TESTING the word of what they use. I suppose you'll say the parents were raised that way. They were. But their bible and gods are proven to, "not work" as I'll call it.

So, if the parents of the (former) child are blameless, does that mean the creator of the religion gets the blame? Because, logically, the first parent has to get the blame, and that is the creator of the religion. Also, if He loves us and doesn't want us to go to hell, why doesn't he give us something other than faith to go by? It's stupid!

Originally Posted by Lynn

Why not "hallucinate" those?

If you know something about SP/HH, you would know.

Originally Posted by Lynn

Before I start to study them, or try to study the reasons why God doesn't exist, I get an intense evil feeling I can't explain. It is a feeling I only get when I do this.

The ultimate reason why Christians are commonly targeted:

ALMOST ALL CHRISTIANS ARE TOO IGNORANT AND STUBBORN TO EVEN QUESTION THEIR BELIEFS, TOO STUBBORN TO LISTEN TO EVERYBODY ELSE, AND THEY DON'T WANT TO THINK LOGICALLY ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT IS IN THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION.

Originally Posted by Rickrold

Those are all a part of the 'Old Covenant' that was in effect before the death of Christ. That covenant is no longer in effect.

Jesus: 'every jot and tittle is still true'. And how do you interpret this?

Originally Posted by Rickrold

Not all of us believe that the world was created in seven literal days, and that those who believe otherwise will burn in hell.

Why are you upset at atheists for making those comments about christianity? For the most part, we KNOW we're only talking about the really crazy messed up fundamentalists when we're ranting about it.

But you know what? I also won't tolerate it when sane christians like yourself whine about that. If you don't like it, do something about it. In fact, if those neocon christians are really taking a huge shit on what christianity is supposed to stand for (and I think they are), then YOU, the sane christians, should be laying the smackdown on them WAY more than us non-theists. So take your complaints and aim them at a direction where they're more useful, i.e. the god-fearing, rapture-preaching, "repent cause the end is near... now watch this drive" folks. We shouldn't be fighting amongst ourselves, if we agree that the fundies who want to impose their views on everyone else are the bad apple.

The Bible depicts a false God for the sake of surpressing the masses. What a coincidence that the Bible was created at the same time of the rise of the roman empire. The Bible was nothing but a tool to surpress native culture, both in europe and in america, all native culture has been erased and replaced by christianity. In europe women who were originally in power were systematically prosecuted as witches, and in america, the natives were all killed. Christianity is a fake culture created for the sake of surpressing the people.

The Bible claiming Jesus is the son of God and Jesus is our lord and savior does this only for the purpose of putting the people down. We are all the sons of God and that is exactly what the Bible is trying to prevent us from realizing by creating a fake image of God. Both christians and atheists buy this image of God and no longer stand still and think about another possible concept of God. The Bible has successfully managed to numb our minds, we no longer think for ourselves.


Apart from that it is pretty obvious that God exists.
1. DNA is structured like a book, so who is the writer? The argument that DNA was randomly created is a mathematical impossibility.
2. In the future we will be able to create a virtual reality similar to the matrix, who says God has not done this before us?
3. We can recreate the entire universe inside our dreams, we play God each night yet we deny the possibility of God?
4. Chicken or egg? Who was first? Only possible solution is that someone created either the chicken or egg. The argument of a proto-chicken only evades the question and does not solve it.
5.The main argument against God is that if there is God then why is there evil? It is because God gave us free will. On top of that, success is only achieved through failure. Therefore, it is impossible for an evolving world to be without evil.

Going against God is going against logic.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

DNA is structured like a book, so who is the writer? The argument that DNA was randomly created is a mathematical impossibility.

Well, it's not a mathematical impossibility, it's just a very low chance that it was achieved in the 4 billion years our Earth has existed. Now, if we had more time, that's a whole different argument, but still, it's not an impossibility. I personally think that, as a believer of the Ancient Alien Theory, that aliens have either created the first piece of DNA or blended their DNA with that of our ancestors. This is a whole different discussion, though, so I'm not going to go further than that.

Originally Posted by Lynn

He tries to get them to believe, everyone has a chance.

Wouldn't it be easier if he just showed himself to me? Oh wait... Christianity...

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

1. DNA is structured like a book, so who is the writer? The argument that DNA was randomly created is a mathematical impossibility.

DNA wasn't created randomly, it was created based on prior conditions. If you want to argue that nature is God and that it spawned DNA I agree, but I just don't think that that is what people mean when they say God. It's like saying someone is gay and meaning that they are happy, you can do it but most people won't understand you(even more so in the case of God).

There does not need to be a being for there to be intelligence.

No clue about the chicken or the egg, but I hypothesize it was the chicken. I'm not expert on evolution, but it seems the chicken could have evolved from some other organism that did not need eggs to reproduce.

I agree with the rest of your post, about christianity's purpose being social conditioning and suppression of the individual.

Originally Posted by XeL

Wouldn't it be easier if he just showed himself to me? Oh wait... Christianity...

Yep. He tries to convince you with numbers and faulty logic instead of much harder proof. How nice.

This would be a whole lot easier if god just said "hey suckers, I'm real" in a big loud voice, to everyone, at the same time.

And I haven't seen anyone walking around with awesome powers lately. You know, there was that guy who got strength from his hair etc.

Ok maybe that's symbolic (the only bible I've read was when I was about 8 and it was simple and had pictures and everything so I'm not sure haha) but hey whatever. If I could do anything and everything, I think I'd manage to give free will without evil (evil wouldn't exsist) and everyone would be happy and grateful. But without all the praying and worshipping and stuff, that would just annoy me.

But still, I think that this was all for control or that people just switched and changed things (anyone remember chinese whispers as a kid?) so much that everything got distorted.

If it were me, there would be no hell. No heaven either because the world would be good and pure just like what heaven is supposed to be.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Apart from that it is pretty obvious that God exists.
1. DNA is structured like a book, so who is the writer? The argument that DNA was randomly created is a mathematical impossibility.

Evidence?

2. In the future we will be able to create a virtual reality similar to the matrix, who says God has not done this before us?

People who don't have evidence...Namely the entire human race.

3. We can recreate the entire universe inside our dreams, we play God each night yet we deny the possibility of God?

Because we live in the real world, not a fantasy dream land.

4. Chicken or egg? Who was first? Only possible solution is that someone created either the chicken or egg. The argument of a proto-chicken only evades the question and does not solve it.

Clearly the only answer is that the chicken magically popped into existence.

5.The main argument against God is that if there is God then why is there evil? It is because God gave us free will. On top of that, success is only achieved through failure. Therefore, it is impossible for an evolving world to be without evil.

No, the main argument against God is that there is no evidence for one. Of course, people will just side-step that and say "oh well X, Y, or Z SUGGESTS that God exists" except X, Y, and Z are speculative or misguided bullshit.

Going against God is going against logic.

If people have free will, one person will decide to do something, someone else won't like it and will decide to call it evil. Evil is just a word. It's an abstraction not a physical thing, that's why two different people can have two different ideas about what it is. In my opinion the only true evil is taking away the will of others, in exactly the way that christianity does. They tell you what is right and wrong because God says so(reminds me of stone cold steve austin). If you derive what is evil based on a dogma rather than on thought you will be wrong because your ideas come from the past rather than the present. What is wrong in one instance is not necessarily wrong in all instances. Most christians realize this even.

Originally Posted by stonedape

If people have free will, one person will decide to do something, someone else won't like it and will decide to call it evil. Evil is just a word. It's an abstraction not a physical thing, that's why two different people can have two different ideas about what it is. In my opinion the only true evil is taking away the will of others, in exactly the way that christianity does. They tell you what is right and wrong because God says so(reminds me of stone cold steve austin). If you derive what is evil based on a dogma rather than on thought you will be wrong because your ideas come from the past rather than the present. What is wrong in one instance is not necessarily wrong in all instances. Most christians realize this even.

Agreed! And people need to remember that everything changes, nothing stays the same.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

The Bible depicts a false God for the sake of surpressing the masses. What a coincidence that the Bible was created at the same time of the rise of the roman empire. The Bible was nothing but a tool to surpress native culture, both in europe and in america, all native culture has been erased and replaced by christianity. In europe women who were originally in power were systematically prosecuted as witches, and in america, the natives were all killed. Christianity is a fake culture created for the sake of surpressing the people.

The Bible claiming Jesus is the son of God and Jesus is our lord and savior does this only for the purpose of putting the people down. We are all the sons of God and that is exactly what the Bible is trying to prevent us from realizing by creating a fake image of God. Both christians and atheists buy this image of God and no longer stand still and think about another possible concept of God. The Bible has successfully managed to numb our minds, we no longer think for ourselves.


Apart from that it is pretty obvious that God exists.
1. DNA is structured like a book, so who is the writer? The argument that DNA was randomly created is a mathematical impossibility.
2. In the future we will be able to create a virtual reality similar to the matrix, who says God has not done this before us?
3. We can recreate the entire universe inside our dreams, we play God each night yet we deny the possibility of God?
4. Chicken or egg? Who was first? Only possible solution is that someone created either the chicken or egg. The argument of a proto-chicken only evades the question and does not solve it.
5.The main argument against God is that if there is God then why is there evil? It is because God gave us free will. On top of that, success is only achieved through failure. Therefore, it is impossible for an evolving world to be without evil.

Going against God is going against logic.

If the bible is a lie, then where did you get all of your information regarding the Christian god?

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

But this low chance has to be repeated each generation, each mutation, leading to an even lower chance, and it would only take one wrong mutation to lead to extinction, hence the mathematical impossibility. I believe in evolution tho, but to me it is obvious DNA is a written language.

One wrong mutation in a population of 1000 won't cause extinction.

My point with the chicken was that why does it have to be someone? Couldn't the system which the universe is create something, I think it does constantly. Couldn't the circumstances of the universe create a situation where DNA manifests? Why does there need to be a supernatural power involved?

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

But this low chance has to be repeated each generation, each mutation, leading to an even lower chance, and it would only take one wrong mutation to lead to extinction, hence the mathematical impossibility. I believe in evolution tho, but to me it is obvious DNA is a written language.

No, written language is an invention by man. we can transcribe the DNA to written language if we try really REALLY hard to see patterns that may or may not be there.

Originally Posted by Raspberry

This would be a whole lot easier if god just said "hey suckers, I'm real" in a big loud voice, to everyone, at the same time.

Ok maybe that's symbolic (the only bible I've read was when I was about 8 and it was simple and had pictures and everything so I'm not sure haha) but hey whatever. If I could do anything and everything, I think I'd manage to give free will without evil (evil wouldn't exsist) and everyone would be happy and grateful. But without all the praying and worshipping and stuff, that would just annoy me.

If it were me, there would be no hell. No heaven either because the world would be good and pure just like what heaven is supposed to be.

Hahaha now that is a good argument, why doesn't God shout out and reveal himself? I think anyone could do this really, claim they are God, except for God himself as he gives us free will. And people have been doing this all the time really.

Also the thing about reality is, that without cold there is no warmth. Without good there is no evil. You need contrast to be able experience one or the other. Say you take a cold shower, the shower only feels cold because your skin is warm. Suppose your skin was freezing, the cold shower would feel warm. So yeah, there just has to be evil. An as evolution is infinite, what is good today, will be evil tomorrow, as things only get better and better. Take computers for example, old computers are like evil, and new ones are good. But in a few years the new computers will also belong to the evil group because they have been outdated.

Originally Posted by stonedape

DNA wasn't created randomly, it was created based on prior conditions. If you want to argue that nature is God and that it spawned DNA I agree, but I just don't think that that is what people mean when they say God. It's like saying someone is gay and meaning that they are happy, you can do it but most people won't understand you(even more so in the case of God).

No clue about the chicken or the egg, but I hypothesize it was the chicken. I'm not expert on evolution, but it seems the chicken could have evolved from some other organism that did not need eggs to reproduce.

According to evolution theory, evolution goes gradually. So it is impossible for an organism who doesn't lay eggs, to change into an organism that does, through one generation of a tiny small random mutation. And no I'm not arguing that God is nature. I'm arguing from a programmers perspective, that someone must have written the code for the DNA. DNA is a language with punctuation, phrases, paragraphs, chapters etc.

Originally Posted by Snowboy

Well, it's not a mathematical impossibility, it's just a very low chance that it was achieved in the 4 billion years our Earth has existed. Now, if we had more time, that's a whole different argument, but still, it's not an impossibility. I personally think that, as a believer of the Ancient Alien Theory, that aliens have either created the first piece of DNA or blended their DNA with that of our ancestors. This is a whole different discussion, though, so I'm not going to go further than that.

But this low chance has to be repeated each generation, each mutation, leading to an even lower chance, and it would only take one wrong mutation to lead to extinction, hence the mathematical impossibility. I believe in evolution tho, but to me it is obvious DNA is a written language.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Evidence?

No I don't have phsyical evidence for God, but I do have logical evidence. But then you would first have to believe in logic before you could accept logical evidence.

Originally Posted by bennerman

If the bible is a lie, then where did you get all of your information regarding the Christian god?

Logic. I believe it is the only way to arrive at any information on God at all. Suppose we live in a reality like the matrix, there is no way of knowing what is real except through the use of logic.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Logic.

Logic in your mind or logic in that of the rest of society?

Originally Posted by Rickrold

All around the interwebs I have noticed that most non-Christains are extremely hostile to all Christians, automatically vilifying them without really knowing what Christians believe, and before they know that apart from the central tenants of the faith there is a great amount of disagreement within Christianity on issues such as the age of the Earth/universe.

Not all of us believe that the world was created in seven literal days, and that those who believe otherwise will burn in hell.

Personally, I think that everything proven by science to be true is true. I am not entirely sure of my position on evolution: I am considering it as a possibility. I see no reason why man's body could not possibly have arisen by natural means. I believe that everything in the Bible is true, but I am open to varying interpretations of the text.

I'm just so tired of everyone calling us all backwards, sub-70-IQ hicks.

Sorry if I seem like I'm just going all over the place and not going anywhere, but I'm just eager to see what you all think about this subject.

It is fashionable and trendy. I don't criticize Christians, I criticize some dogma and doctrines. It is easy to criticize other's beliefs, but not so easy to even see one's own beliefs and assumptions objectively. People think that they are evolved and intelligent when they can point out what they perceive as silly in other's beliefs. This appeals to their egos and their own self-importance. But just try criticizing science and see how defensive they get, as if their own belief structure is being attacked. They do not see that there is truth in mythology. I don't know if they even interpret dreams to find self-knowledge. Because to interpret dreams one would also interpret myths and find truth. Truth in the story of the Garden of Eden, truth in the story of the resurrection of Christ and the Virgin Birth. If there is no truth in these stories then there is no truth in the messages in their dreams. Then dreams are just a hobby or past-time to them in which they can increase their skill in lucid dreaming in order to have fun but devoid of any meaning. But higher knowledge found subjectively? They probably don't believe in such things, because that would be silly just like believing in Christ. The language of dreams is the same language of myths. In order to understand this language one needs to open one's mind. But many of them do not think so deeply on these things and look honestly at their own beliefs and limitations of knowledge. It is trendy and fashionable, and they do not want to appear unintelligent, so they look outside themselves and point fingers at all the silly superstitious stupid people around them.

Originally Posted by bennerman

No, written language is an invention by man. we can transcribe the DNA to written language if we try really REALLY hard to see patterns that may or may not be there.

Yet we do write in DNA ourself. DNA manipulation. We don't need to try hard to see patterns. It is a fact that DNA is patterned into phrases, paragraphes, chapters, it has words and even punctuation.

Originally Posted by stonedape

My point with the chicken was that why does it have to be someone? Couldn't the system which the universe is create something, I think it does constantly. Couldn't the circumstances of the universe create a situation where DNA manifests? Why does there need to be a supernatural power involved?

If there wasn't, why can't we recreate this scenario in a computer simulation? What kind of situation did you have in mind can you give an example?

Originally Posted by Marvo

One wrong mutation in a population of 1000 won't cause extinction.

But one right mutation in a population of 1000 will cause the entire population to evolve in the exact same direction?

Originally Posted by bennerman

Logic in your mind or logic in that of the rest of society?

Logic agreed upon by everyone. Of course the logic starts in my mind. But the thing is, there is a logic, like mathematics for example, which is undeniable, and that is what I mean by logical evidence.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

But one right mutation in a population of 1000 will cause the entire population to evolve in the exact same direction?

Yes, you just described the concept of natural selection. The good mutations thrive, the bad mutations don't. The mutation wouldn't immediately affect the population, but it wouldn't die off and eventually it would affect the entire population, while the bad mutation would die off before it affects much more than a fraction of the population.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

No I don't have phsyical evidence for God, but I do have logical evidence. But then you would first have to believe in logic before you could accept logical evidence.

So you don't have physical evidence for God...but you have logical evidence. What, exactly, is your "logical evidence."