Thread: Why is there existence instead of nothing?

[QUOTE=really;808430]
The mind is definitely part of illusions. The ego is what entertains the illusions to a great extent. The ego and mind are one and the same; ego/mind/self.

QUOTE]

Like I said, if the ego/mind is also an illusion, then what is it that is percieving the illusion?

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

For example: a dream at night. The perception that we are all separate beings with separate minds. The ego is a thought. A definition of reality depending on thoughts and perceptions ABOUT reality as sensory input into our limited five senses. I could go on and on but this sums up the most important points.

Oh. So the definition of reality for you is what is from our five senses or what?


I'd call a dream rather real. It may not be physical or mind independent, but it is still real, just as a dream; if it wasn't real it wouldn't exist.. Just as an idea is real as an idea.


And also tell me why you think we aren't all seperate beings with seperate minds.

Originally Posted by really

Death..

Well this depends what you are saying happens after death in your belief system. Death means very different thigns depending on your beliefs.

Originally Posted by Omicron

And also tell me why you think we aren't all seperate beings with seperate minds.

Well, even from a purely materialistic point of view that completely disregards the possibility of actually connecting to someone else's mind through only the power of your own, we can never be completely seperated from each other. Every time you communicate you share a piece of your mind with someone else, and you cannot stop communicating. Everything you do betrays a piece of your mind to others. Any casual study of group psychology will show that groups operate as a cohesive whole even without the intention of the individual. Groups have their own specific agendas and even ideas which may or may not be shared by any of the individuals.

Just look at the phenomenon of mob mentality. Often times, mobs will commit acts that no individual will claim to have wanted to participate in. They will say that they felt controlled by an outside force and that they were compelled to do what they did. This outside force can be described as the mob mind, which each individual is a part of.

Maybe check out mirror neurons, that's an interesting phenomenon. When one person sees somebody perform an action, the same neurons fire in their brains, as if it were they who performed it. It's thought to have a role in learning.

But that's really a bit of a tangent now...

As far as I can tell, there's really no such thing as a fake reality. Basically if you reduce the term 'reality' down to 'a group of experiences experienced by a conscious observer', then there is no issue. This universe is certainly quite illusory, as most of the phenomena we feel confortable with, such as solid objects or time, are really just the emergent properties of some basic laws. I don't think that makes them any less real though. Nor could you truly call the Matrix a false reality, it was a group of common experiences shared by many people...

Then again you could take the view that there is only one reality which is mathematics and logic, and everything else that people experience is just a little section of the result of that logic.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

The ego is a thought.

Wow. I love that idea.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Why does existence exist?

Wouldn't any cause of existence be a form of existence? Can something create itself?

There is existence instead of nothing because the sum of everything is nothing

Originally Posted by Crumbs

There is existence instead of nothing because the sum of everything is nothing

Another cool thought. I really think you are at least in the ballpark of the answer there. Nonexistence has something to do with what and why existence is, apparently. I say that because aside from existence, there is nothing, so nothingness is the only possibility for what could be at the root of existence.

QUOTE]

Like I said, if the ego/mind is also an illusion, then what is it that is percieving the illusion?[/QUOTE]

Good question. Ask yourself that. It is pure consciousness. The mind is what interprets experience.

Defining reality? I can say that reality is a spiritual reality or I can say that reality is the material universe that we can percieve with our sense. But these are actually philosophical concepts and reality is not a philosophical concept. Reality is........(gong noise) And we won't give it a name. But reality is NOT what we think ABOUT it. What we think about it is interpretation. Of course there are no fake realities but there are illusions born of the mind and having no existence outside of the mind. Like the ego. For example a dream might be a real thing, but the view that the objects in a dream are actually separate real things independant from consciousness is an illusion that only the lucid dreamer knows. You cannot prove with logic and science to a dream character that he is a part of your consciousness. Only lucidity brings this knowledge.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Like I said, if the ego/mind is also an illusion, then what is it that is percieving the illusion?

Perception is also an illusion. Beyond perception is God - the Witness and Being of Everything. Thus, God is hidden by the illusions of the ego. To remove/silence the ego is to remove the false identity of the self and so reveal the identity with everything; the Self.

Originally Posted by Omicron

Well this depends what you are saying happens after death in your belief system.

No it doesn't. The Real Truth does not depend upon beliefs or meanings; it is Impersonal. Death of the Spirit is actually an impossibility as God/Eternal Life is only Life and All Love.

No it doesn't. The Real Truth does not depend upon beliefs or meanings; it is Impersonal. Death of the Spirit is actually an impossibility as God/Eternal Life is only Life and All Love.

Yeah, and that's what your belief is.

You haven't really given any evidence, either empirical or logical. And anyway, the creator can't be omnibenevolent, that's completely at odds with observation.

Originally Posted by really

No it doesn't. The Real Truth does not depend upon beliefs or meanings; it is Impersonal. Death of the Spirit is actually an impossibility as God/Eternal Life is only Life and All Love.

This is a belief. Atheists will always point that out especially when you use the word "God". But if you refrased it and said that energy never dies, it just transforms and that life feeds on life, this would be a fact. But essentially you are saying the same thing. What atheists don't realize is there is a diffence between facts and truth, and what theists don't realize is that there is a difference between beliefs and truth. In another thread people are arguing over if 2+2=4 or 5! If you us the binary system 10+10=100. These facts are different but the truth of the quantity remains the same.

Beyond perception is God - the Witness and Being of Everything. Thus, God is hidden by the illusions of the ego. To remove/silence the ego is to remove the false identity of the self and so reveal the identity with everything; the Self.

The truth of this statement, and I don't think even an atheist will argue, is that the witness and being of everything is consciousness. Now the mystic might define God as consciousness wjile the materialist will define consciousness as a biproduct of brain functions. Now science has never proved consciousness. It has no way to prove it or measure it. But every single person accepts consciousness, even scientists, because it is so obvious. There is consciousness is the truth, but it is not a scientific fact. There is no proof for it. So here is an example of what the gnostic sees. The gnostic knows (not believes) that the whole universe and everything in it is divine just like you know (not believe) that you are conscious. If you take the fact of your consciousness and erase the thought of the ego, all you have left is a field of consciousness with no center and no edges and no limits. This is what the mystics call God. And anybody can experience this but science will never understand. Transpersonal psychology knows this also.
All you have to do, is a scientific experiment, regardless of what you believe, to experience the truth for yourself, and that is to erase the thought of the ego while remaining alert and present, and you can experience the field of consciousness we all belong to. It is very simple, but not that easy. I want everyone to try this before they debate over beliefs again, because I see some people talking about beliefs, I see some talking about science, I see some talking about personal knowledge. And it is funny. Those without personal knowledge or experience always bring up science to justify their beliefs.

Why is there Earth instead of Mars?

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Those without personal knowledge or experience always bring up science to justify their beliefs.

You can always tell someone who doesn't know the truth from personal experience because they have beliefs. However, a person that only knows belief and has no experience will never recognize when someone else knows from experience. He will always think that the other is talking about beliefs also.
A person that believes thinks that they know. It is an illusion of the ego. "I know the truth" is the ego talking from beliefs. A person with experience who really does know will say something like "The truth is". Borrowed knowledge is not the truth of experience, it is belief. For example, most of us accept intellectually that energy=matter but we do not know it from experience. We can use this fact in debates and it will help prove our point. But we don't live our lives as if we know this. The truth is beyond intellectual borrowed knowledge. The truth of what you know is a lot less than you think it is. And you know things that are contrary to what you believe. This goes for everybody, theist and atheist alike.
everybody: Try to figure out the differences between true knowledge and belief in yourself. Also try to find the difference between facts and truth.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Why is there Earth instead of Mars?

There isn't.

No, I'm pretty sure there is.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

No, I'm pretty sure there is.

The next planet past Earth is Earth?

Jesus.

I asked basically: "Why life on earth and not mars?"

Or how ever you want to look at it. Not the ordering of the planets!!

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Jesus.

I asked basically: "Why life on earth and not mars?"

Or how ever you want to look at it. Not the ordering of the planets!!

Thank you for recognizing that I am Jesus. You did not mention life. You just asked why Earth and not Mars, which sounds like asking why existence and not nothing. We have existence instead of nothing, but we do not have Earth instead of Mars. However, we are on Earth and not Mars. That is because it is what I decided.

Congratulations UM, you know are lvl 56 in Coming To Your Own Conclusions Despite The Point^TM

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Congratulations UM, you know are lvl 56 in Coming To Your Own Conclusions Despite The Point^TM

I am not sure I can form much of a conclusion in trying to determine what you just said.

God damn mud people.

Did I hit a wormhole and end up in Senseless Banter? Stop fucking with the pancakes that eat the fossils' memories, Gilligan inside.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Did I hit a wormhole and end up in Senseless Banter? Stop fucking with the pancakes that eat the fossils' memories.

Well it is just like every topic I've ever seen in most things in the lounge people have something else they want to talk about so somehow they steer it that way, so I figured I would cut out the middle-man and lead the topic directly to what I'm interested in, which is the fact that you, UM, are a mudman, and I am tired of your god damn mud parties. You never even invite me but you have to be blaring that music at all hours of the night right next door to me. Some people need sleep at night for work in the morning you know!