Communism!

I have a quest y does no1 want communism because i had a dream where the entire world was communist no poor people no rich snobs no starving africa. Every1 was just at peace there was no greed or any thing seems like utopia to me. I mean if u take some of the Brutality out of it there is nothing wrong with it?

1. No poor
2. No inequality
3. No wars
4. No starving people
5. Working not for self but for the benifit of Humanity
The good things just keep coming. If we take away violence then its utopia so id like to know whats wrong.

P.S. sorry if this is in the wrong section and sorry if it seems like jiberish.

1. Spell check.

2. Dreams aren't real. Just because communism worked in your dream doesn't mean it'll work in real life.

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Originally Posted by 27

2. Dreams aren't real. Just because communism worked in your dream doesn't mean it'll work in real life.

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just because it a dream doesnt mean it cant come true

OK, but it doesn't make the dream proof that communism works. If communism worked we'd still have the USSR.

Communism is nice as long as people don't act like humans at all. The ego, selfishness, greed, etc. all make communism unattainable.

Well the only problem I see with your theory is that communism doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by wasup

Communism is nice as long as people don't act like humans at all. The ego, selfishness, greed, etc. all make communism unattainable.

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Maybe not on a large scale. but on a small scale possibly.

I think the best example of communism in practice are kibbutzes in Israel. Its sort of like all of the people on a kibutz are ants and they are working for the good of the colony not for themselves or i could be wrong.

But my point is communism or communist ideals can be achieved on a small scale but on a big scale its not possible for the reasons you mentioned.

If you look at China, a supposedly communist state, there is still a wealthy class.

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Originally Posted by psychology student

If you look at China, a supposedly communist state, there is still a wealthy class.

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China is not a communist state....atleast not anymore. They've embrassed capitalism and they use "communism" as an excuse to seize large amounts of land for government projects...

Yea, I understand.

No you don't, I have to imbue you with my wisdom. It's the only way you'll learn.

Communism fails.
Why does the "colony" matter more than individuals?
The colony doesn't love.
The colony doesn't feel pain.
The colony doesn't WANT or NEED anything.
Only people do.

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Originally Posted by RedfishBluefish

Communism fails.
Why does the "colony" matter more than individuals?
The colony doesn't love.
The colony doesn't feel pain.
The colony doesn't WANT or NEED anything.
Only people do.

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Its not the colony its humanity
Every human should have the right to live in a blissful world but to do that every1 has to work together so its fair

The colony doesn't love feel pain or want its followers do

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Originally Posted by ushamie

I have a quest y does no1 want communism because i had a dream where the entire world was communist no poor people no rich snobs no starving africa. Every1 was just at peace there was no greed or any thing seems like utopia to me. I mean if u take some of the Brutality out of it there is nothing wrong with it?

1. No poor
2. No inequality
3. No wars
4. No starving people
5. Working not for self but for the benifit of Humanity
The good things just keep coming. If we take away violence then its utopia so id like to know whats wrong.

P.S. sorry if this is in the wrong section and sorry if it seems like jiberish.

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In your dream, why did anybody bother to work? How hard did each person work? Did they work harder than greedy people? If so, then you were definitely dreaming. Communism has no fuel except government intimidation. That is the problem. Nothing else makes it work at all, and even government intimidation is miniscule compared to greed. That is the hand nature dealt us. We need to stucture our economic systems accordingly.

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Originally Posted by ushamie

Its not the colony its humanity

Every human should have the right to live in a blissful world but to do that every1 has to work together so its fair

The colony doesn't love feel pain or want its followers do

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That is like saying lions need to become vegetarians.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

In your dream, why did anybody bother to work? How hard did each person work? Did they work harder than greedy people? If so, then you were definitely dreaming. Communism has no fuel except government intimidation. That is the problem. Nothing else makes it work at all, and even government intimidation is miniscule compared to greed. That is the hand nature dealt us. We need to stucture our economic systems accordingly.



That is like saying lions need to become vegetarians.

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but still y cant they its not impossible u just need to get rid of greed cant every1 help each other instead of wars we can spend more time on other things like medical research and space exploration. Any way they already have vegatarian lions some zookeepers fed a loin vegtables and it liked em not meat

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Originally Posted by ushamie

but still y cant they its not impossible u just need to get rid of greed cant every1 help each other instead of wars we can spend more time on other things like medical research and space exploration. Any way they already have vegatarian lions some zookeepers fed a loin vegtables and it liked em not meat

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Just like you have to force a lion to live in a cage to make him a vegetarian, you have to make a country live in a cage to make communism get anywhere, which could never be very far.

Greed is as much a part of human nature as the will to have fun. It is not going anywhere. It is what makes us tick.

I oppose state-sponsored communism, but the USA could use a little more collectivism, which really just amounts to greed with a little more thought put into it. We can see how a thug pushing drugs and getting in gunfights out of percieved self-interest isn't really doing himself, his family or his neighbors any favors. But when it's a CEO begging the maximum tax breaks, grants and subsidies in exchange for keeping the locals busy choking their own ecosystem (making a living hastening their deaths), we envy their 'success' and give them civic awards if they build a playground every six years or so.

We've over-emphasized the stats--profit, speed, output--and neglected values like craftsmanship, service and real utility, very much to the detriment of our reputation and quality of life.

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Originally Posted by 27

OK, but it doesn't make the dream proof that communism works. If communism worked we'd still have the USSR.

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Not really, no.

The problem with communism is that it is utopic, it is too idealistic. It is also very misunderstood, as is anarchism, and it has never been executed correctly.

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Originally Posted by ushamie

but still y cant they its not impossible u just need to get rid of greed cant every1 help each other instead of wars we can spend more time on other things like medical research and space exploration. Any way they already have vegatarian lions some zookeepers fed a loin vegtables and it liked em not meat

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Ok seriously you can not get rid of greed, that would be VERY BAD. I know it would be nice to haveeveryone doing everything for everyone else, lalala sunshine world. BUt NOO! COmpetetiveness and greed fuel everything, even positive things such as medical research, even charity!

England will say: Oh well look at us, we are giving 0.1% of our GNP to help the starving children in africa!

America: OMG you guys are soo cruel, we are now giving 0.3%!!!

England: Gosh their acting like it was 50 years ago, we give 0.6%.

China: Yeah.. well we just thought about advancing our country and using all the money you spent on Africa, which tbh didn;t do that much in the end since yougave it directly to their governments. didn't have the balls to go and otherthrow child murdering corrupt leaders and don't give money to chrities that actually do help a ittle, such as the water aid ones. We were able to cure cancer by using nanobots to attack the mutated cells and also create these look giant energy sheilds. Which FYI means that although we now firing long range missiles to devesatte your countries, you can't harm us. Don;t worry once we've takne you guys over we'll use the land for food. It'll be the United Earth Empire..of China. Of curse that's until 20 years later when a group fo people are sick of one nation just looking after everyone and it started to become a lalala happy land, they want to be rich and have power over others ands look good, so they rebel, make some new countries, and it starts again...

lol

also the part about the vege lions.. yeah the part tehy didn't show you was the bit were the animal weighed a half of what it should do, looked like skin and bones, became ill and eventually died because.. shock horror here people.. LIONS ARE NOT VEGES!! They nedd this cool thing called protein, they need lots, in fact they really aren't supposed to eat vegetables at all, probably can't even digest them very well. They then miss out on the amino acids that YOU CAN ONLY GET, from eating other animals. The end..


I apologies for all spelling errors, i am on a terrible keyboard right now and the firefox automatic spell checker i have at home for my forum use isn't here cos their using IE!

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Originally Posted by Zera

Not really, no.

The problem with communism is that it is utopic, it is too idealistic. It is also very misunderstood, as is anarchism, and it has never been executed correctly.

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In a hypothetical situation where it does work, what would be the driving force? What would fuel the system and have it working effectively? Without greed, I don't understand what the fuel can possibly be other than government intimidation, which is very weak compared to greed. Can you or anybody else clear up that issue?

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

In a hypothetical situation where it does work, what would be the driving force? What would fuel the system and have it working effectively? Without greed, I don't understand what the fuel can possibly be other than government intimidation, which is very weak compared to greed. Can you or anybody else clear up that issue?

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If the word "communism" sparks mystery and a bit of fear in you, you've been infected by the powerful red scare. It's incredible that thanks to the USSR, the Nazis were defeated, but everyone prefers to think that it was because of the Americans.

Well obviously people are the driving force. Greed is not what makes the world go round, in fact, you'd find that in most places it is necessity. In an ideal communist state, if you don't produce anything, you're not getting anything. So basically, you have to play your part. It's just another type of society, more self-dependent. Look at Cuba, the USSR "fell" (yes, quotes because it will take a long time to wipe off it's influence on modern Russia) and it still functions quite efficiently.

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Originally Posted by Zera

If the word "communism" sparks mystery and a bit of fear in you, you've been infected by the powerful red scare. It's incredible that thanks to the USSR, the Nazis were defeated, but everyone prefers to think that it was because of the Americans.

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Western Front: U.S. and Britain. 1.1 million Americans were killed or injured in WWII. We defeated the Japanese and led victory on the Western Front. That is not something that should be ignored.

Eastern Front: Soviet Union. However, that does not mean they were not evil. They didn't want somebody else taking over the world. They were about geared up and ready to try it themselves. It sure as Hell does not mean their economic system was high quality. So much of the money they were able to get out of the half ass workers went to their military. The nation itself hung on by a thread.

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Originally Posted by Zera

Well obviously people are the driving force. Greed is not what makes the world go round, in fact, you'd find that in most places it is necessity. In an ideal communist state, if you don't produce anything, you're not getting anything. So basically, you have to play your part. It's just another type of society, more self-dependent. Look at Cuba, the USSR "fell" (yes, quotes because it will take a long time to wipe off it's influence on modern Russia) and it still functions quite efficiently.

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That encourages people to do just enough to get by. Greed makes people go nuts with creativity and extra hard work. That difference is why the Soviet Union collapsed and the United States is the wealthiest nation in history.

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Originally Posted by Taosaur

I oppose state-sponsored communism, but the USA could use a little more collectivism, which really just amounts to greed with a little more thought put into it. We can see how a thug pushing drugs and getting in gunfights out of percieved self-interest isn't really doing himself, his family or his neighbors any favors. But when it's a CEO begging the maximum tax breaks, grants and subsidies in exchange for keeping the locals busy choking their own ecosystem (making a living hastening their deaths), we envy their 'success' and give them civic awards if they build a playground every six years or so.

We've over-emphasized the stats--profit, speed, output--and neglected values like craftsmanship, service and real utility, very much to the detriment of our reputation and quality of life.

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I'm inclined to agree with you.

"Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff."
~Frank Zappa

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Originally Posted by 27

"Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff."
~Frank Zappa

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lol, QFT

as for my opinion...I like the ideal that everyone can be on equal footing, but I actually think it is unfair that someone who doesnt work very hard or doesnt have to use any brain power gets the same benefits and quality of life as someone who does work hard or has a lot of responsibility. To me, it seems like there is then no incentive to take on the harder jobs with a lot of responsibility. Then again, I guess that falls down to the root of what have been saying about greed.