Thread: Am I...

I think the people who made the universe programmed you to appear as if you doubt others are conscious as a part of a plot to stop me from realizing I am the only conscious person, nice try. Now to find a bug in the system...

My consciousness can beat up your consciousness.

That's called solipsism.

If you're right, who gives a shit what we say? If you're wrong... well, you're wrong

Seeing as other humans behave exactly as you would expect them to were they conscious, it makes no difference whether or not they're 'actually' conscious. It's an irrelevant idea.

Unless, of course, you see people actually acting differently (in what you would consider a less-conscious manner) then you.

I've thought of this so much, and I've never thought that anyone else actually thought about it.

Yeah like gnome said it should be reather irrelevant to how we live are lives, but it is very interesting none the less, I mean each one of us assumes that everyone else is conscious and thinks and see's the world like they do.

I find it always leads me to wondering about something someone who I know who is a master lder who always complains that dream characters will never satisfy him because they arn't real people, but he can make them be totaly convincing, he's pretty spiritual though.

But then again if this is the case, I can garentee to you that it's not that case for you, but only to me .

I thought about that a bunch when I was younger. I also thought about how I am the only concious being in MY own world. Whereas, my mom is still my mom but she does not exist entirely in MY world. In her world, she may doing something completely different in a different location. I tried to explain this an my paradox of perception idea to her and she didnt get either one. After that, I gave up thinking I was the only one who would think of such strange ideas.

edit:

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

I think the people who made the universe programmed you to appear as if you doubt others are conscious as a part of a plot to stop me from realizing I am the only conscious person, nice try. Now to find a bug in the system...

I think the people who made the universe programmed the both of you as a quite clever argument to cause me to not even question that I am the only concious one!

I'm the most conscious of all you people because I MADE this topic! Ha!

Again, it is a very clever trick.

It makes an interesting Matrix-y kind of what-if game, but I've seen people adamantly espouse this view and it seems like several of you have really considered it, and every time it comes up I have great difficulty figuring out what's going on in the heads of the people saying it. Maybe it's a blind spot in my worldview, and maybe it comes from having a "brother" (uncle actually) my own age, but I was aware that humans were fellow-beings with thoughts and feelings at quite a young age, and later recognized the same to a lesser degree in animals and plants. What you're proposing makes about as much sense to me as "What if your right hand was a horseshoe?" It's a funny thought, but I don't see how anyone, in the presence of my right hand, could think it really is a horseshoe.

Actually I would usually wonder about this exactly when I was(or had just finished) spending a lot of time with someone. What I find interesting is that this "what if scenario" automatically implies the world is the doing of a person(s)/entity(ies) conspiring to fool us, human paranoid nature?

Originally Posted by Taosaur

stuff

It's just that the whole everybody-is-conscious-without-any-explination doesn't make any sense. Why me? How come I'm conscious? How come I'm not some other person? What makes me me?

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

Actually I would usually wonder about this exactly when I was(or had just finished) spending a lot of time with someone. What I find interesting is that this "what if scenario" automatically implies the world is the doing of a person(s)/entity(ies) conspiring to fool us, human paranoid nature?

Originally Posted by theSheep

It's just that the whole everybody-is-conscious-without-any-explination doesn't make any sense. Why me? How come I'm conscious? How come I'm not some other person? What makes me me?

Thanks, you both gave me a little better idea where this line of thought gets started. It does seem kind of paranoid, but I can also see how it comes out of the mystery and imperfection inherent in contact and communication.

As for the "why consciousness?" again I just didn't question it. In addition to family, I grew up in the woods and saw what I took for gradations of consciousness all around me. To me, it seems the nature of our reality to take ever more complex, complexly interacting forms. That wave may break and subside at some point, but it seems the norm in our here-and-now.

I thought this when I was really young. I didn't honestly believe, nor do I today. It is just the fact that it is entirely possible. THink about a dream. All those people and there is only one conciousness. It is more a paradox though. The possiblilty exists only because you could not disprove nor prove the theory. Much like perception. We all have our own personal perspective of the world. We may all experience the world exactly the same or each completely different. It is more likely than the world revolving around 'me,' but also impossible to prove. Today, I believe there is more than one, but humans are one entity of separate conciousness.

Well I don't actually believe it either but it's had me paranoid not having any evidence but comparison to other people as proof.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

That's called solipsism.

If you're right, who gives a shit what we say? If you're wrong... well, you're wrong

Seeing as other humans behave exactly as you would expect them to were they conscious, it makes no difference whether or not they're 'actually' conscious. It's an irrelevant idea.

Unless, of course, you see people actually acting differently (in what you would consider a less-conscious manner) then you.

I often observe this, but my doctor just tells me its the early onset of sociopathy.

Well, You can tell that you're conscious, because you know you're conscious, and I know I'm conscious. That, of course requires you accedpting that I exist. I know I exist, so if you exist, I know I'm not the only person.

I just get such a strong sense of presence or contact from other living things, and have such a visceral sense of when I've hurt other people or made them happy, I can't really entertain this idea that I'm real and they're not. I don't think any of us exist independently or have any real core "self," but whatever's going on here, we're definitely in it together.

Originally Posted by theSheep

the only conscious person? It always puzzles me. Sometimes I think what if I'm the only person who can actually think and feel, and everyone else is just some sort of unconscious robot. A non-being with a brain.

Like as if the universe is set up for me, and nobody in my universe is as real as I am.

What do you think?

Hey, i catch myself thinking that at times.

I've thought about this before too. I can assure you, I'm conscious. But what if I'm just a robot, taking part in your discussion with no consciousness at all? It's a strange topic.

Originally Posted by theSheep

the only conscious person? It always puzzles me. Sometimes I think what if I'm the only person who can actually think and feel, and everyone else is just some sort of unconscious robot. A non-being with a brain.

Like as if the universe is set up for me, and nobody in my universe is as real as I am.

What do you think?

Lookup the definition of...ego.

You mean false ego...

Originally Posted by Taosaur

I just get such a strong sense of presence or contact from other living things, and have such a visceral sense of when I've hurt other people or made them happy, I can't really entertain this idea that I'm real and they're not. I don't think any of us exist independently or have any real core "self," but whatever's going on here, we're definitely in it together.

Why not? The only evidence you have offered for their existence is your response to your perception of their presence. Everything in your post that you offer as examples are based purely on your own actions and reactions. You have a visceral sense of when you hurt or help. None of that actually requires another being to be there at all; only that you perceive one. What evidence do you have of another's existence that isn't completely dependant on your own perception of them, and your own actions towards them? What evidence do you really have that your perceptions are accurate?

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Why not? The only evidence you have offered for their existence is your response to your perception of their presence. Everything in your post that you offer as examples are based purely on your own actions and reactions. You have a visceral sense of when you hurt or help. None of that actually requires another being to be there at all; only that you perceive one. What evidence do you have of another's existence that isn't completely dependant on your own perception of them, and your own actions towards them? What evidence do you really have that your perceptions are accurate?

I have no existence except in relation to them. What am I without my mother? Without the air? Without the plants and animals that sustain me? I examine the evidence of my senses and the activity of my mind rigorously, but they are the only evidence that I have.

To me exercises like this one expose the paranoia inherent in the delusion of self.

There Is No Thruth In Philosophy

Originally Posted by symbolist

There Is No Thruth In Philosophy

I find it very thruthy.