Thread: The Law Of Attraction

I don't think science is the only method for understanding truth, but I think it is the best method for determining the existence of principles and communicating them to the public. What better system is there for forming and supporting theories and laws and educating the public on them convincingly than the scientific method? Intuition is only convincing to the person using it. It is not enough for the person to publish his finding with credibility.

I also don't think anything is ever fully proven. I just think phenomena are observed and theories are supported.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

Science is just one of the infinite other directions one may take down the rabbit hole of life. To say it's the end all be all, because it provides us with some luxuries is being proud and presumptuous. It will always be fundamentally flawed in the sense that it observes where truth was, as opposed to understanding where truth is. It's results are as useless or useful as any other profession's is. Each individual will determine what is of use to them, or not. Take certain formulas to heart, while in the same instant claiming others to be utterly preposterous. To be able to claim Science is the one way to obtain valid information, takes extreme pride and/or ignorance to the other available paths in life. Intuition is just one of many areas we've left on the back burner for far too long.

Science is not a 'profession', it is the basic way in which we gather knowledge every day. For example - your flashlight stops working. What do you do? You use the scientific method, of course!

1) Hypothesis - perhaps the batteries have run out.
2) Independent variable - the batteries inside the flashlight.
3) Dependent variable - whether or not the flashlight works.
4) The experiment - change the batteries and try to turn it on.
5) Interpreting the results - if it works, great, your hypothesis was apparently correct. If it doesn't work, then...
6) New hypothesis - perhaps the light bulb is shot.

Science is the only way to gather knowledge, and we all use it constantly. Some people just do it wrong (someone might, for example, say "I can feel with my gut that the light bulb is the issue, this must be absolutely true", and then continuously change the light bulb over and over again, never getting it to work because they never checked the batteries)

Originally Posted by SolSkye

Here's a hypothetical example of how quantifying something of quality fails: The quantified stress levels of a starving child in Zimbabwe and the stress levels of a child growing up in suburbia whose parents constantly fight and berate him, may return the same results on paper since both subjects are unable to take into account the experiences of the other during their experience. Even though they may seem to be experiencing the same level of stress and emotion on paper, they are clearly different. When Science tries to quantify quality it looks for a subjective way to objectively explain subjectivity...it's absurd to try. People are more than welcome to imperfectly try and explain perfection. I'd love to see the formula to that experiment.

That's where quantified numbers let you down. Let me know when scientists figure out the last digit of pi, by the way.

Well, mathematicians are on it already

You cannot properly quantify 'stress levels', because that is an objectively meaningless phrase. It's an extreme generalization of complex physiological processes which most humans can identify with, and so is only useful in making other people relate to these experiences. Likewise, you can't measure 'perfection', because that is also a subjective human construct. We made these things up in order to be able to communicate using language, but there is nothing outside of our minds which truly represents them. If we wanted to scientifically examine the effect that each child's environment was having on them, we could measure any number of neurotransmitters, hormones, and what have you, which are associated with the myriad of phenomena you lump into 'stress levels'.

You might say that this is well and good, but we aren't literally examining the effects of this 'stress' on their inner thoughts - well, just because we do not currently have enough knowledge of the brain's functions to do so does not mean that it is scientifically impossible. Even more importantly, there is no other way to examine their stress levels. What would you propose to do in lieu of using science?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I don't think science is the only method for understanding truth, but I think it is the best method for determining the existence of principles and communicating them to the public. What better system is there for forming and supporting theories and laws and educating the public on them convincingly than the scientific method? Intuition is only convincing to the person using it. It is not enough for the person to publish his finding with credibility.

I also don't think anything is ever fully proven. I just think phenomena are observed and theories are supported.

Intuition is a big part of the scientific method - the hypothesis part. Science is necessary for verifying the veracity of these vague visions (heh).

And yes, science never proves anything. Science is always in the process of correcting itself, and creating models of the physical world which make more and more accurate predictions (and are hopefully closer to the true nature of the universe). It's very hard to imagine any rational person just having some random intuition and then completely convincing themselves of it without actually doing some practical experimentation. The need for experimental verification is the fundamental concept of science.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut_Jeff777

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's "big fat scam." I read that link you provided above (at least 85% of it) and it's very good information. I have a book by Kevin Hogan called "Covert Persuasion", so I can understand a bit about where he's coming from. I agree, you can't just think of something, visualize it, feel good about it and have it miraculously fall into your lap...that's ludicrous. I do however believe that action and vision (visualization) work hand in hand. They are co-laborers. But what's just as valuable? Competence. You have to have a model that's going to take you from point A to point B. What's more...a proven model, or prepare to go through trial and error and if you're persistent..."you'll fail your way to the top." Take financial success for example (or at least my definition of it)...if you're an entrepreneur starting from "point A", vision is just the beginning...you'll need a model, you'll need to have competence or become competent in your endeavour...THEN take action on what you have put together. It will make the journey so much more worthwhile if you have a positive/optimistic mindset so that you're more flexible and things will run smoother. Metaphorically speaking, once all the bullets are loaded in the barrel, aim at your target and pull the trigger. I firmly believe in the Law of Attraction, but I also believe they left out a huge chunk of what else is required. However what they said, I do support.

I didn't read the book but I heard that the author says that all the problems that happen to people are their own fault! Like natural disasters and shit.

Anyway, yes I believe that you need to mentally see where you want to be but everyone should know that...

Originally Posted by Oneironaut_Jeff777

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's "big fat scam." I read that link you provided above (at least 85% of it) and it's very good information. I have a book by Kevin Hogan called "Covert Persuasion", so I can understand a bit about where he's coming from. I agree, you can't just think of something, visualize it, feel good about it and have it miraculously fall into your lap...that's ludicrous. I do however believe that action and vision (visualization) work hand in hand. They are co-laborers. But what's just as valuable? Competence. You have to have a model that's going to take you from point A to point B. What's more...a proven model, or prepare to go through trial and error and if you're persistent..."you'll fail your way to the top." Take financial success for example (or at least my definition of it)...if you're an entrepreneur starting from "point A", vision is just the beginning...you'll need a model, you'll need to have competence or become competent in your endeavour...THEN take action on what you have put together. It will make the journey so much more worthwhile if you have a positive/optimistic mindset so that you're more flexible and things will run smoother. Metaphorically speaking, once all the bullets are loaded in the barrel, aim at your target and pull the trigger. I firmly believe in the Law of Attraction, but I also believe they left out a huge chunk of what else is required. However what they said, I do support.

I didn't read the book but I heard that the author talks about how the problems people face are their own fault and even natural disasters and shit. And she talks about this magucal force in the universe that attracts what you want...which is pure fantasy

But i do of course believe you need to mentally see where you like to be at but everyone knows that...

and yes visualization is important to me too.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

Science is not a 'profession', it is the basic way in which we gather knowledge every day. For example - your flashlight stops working. What do you do? You use the scientific method, of course!

I'm aware of how hypotheses are tested. I meant more for people that specialize and decide to make it their living to dig down that particular rabbit hole on a daily basis. Some choose music, others writing, some acting, and some angrily flipping burgers for the rest of their life. It's just a life choice. To test out this situation, or find it redundant. Inspiration, information, and epiphanies can be had down any path you take, and that's really what the journey is about. Gaining self-knowledge. Not about the subjective outer results had down the way. Science is just a way of finding out information into the common reality we all choose to exist where if internalized can have the scientist gain more insight into themselves and their connection to the world around them. Personally, I've had more epiphanies and understanding like that without the use of the scientific method, but that's just me.

If you look at some religions like Hinduism and their explanations for the universe it's strikingly similar to actual results and explanations of the universe reached through scientific method. How did they do it back then without testing their theory? I feel we possess more innate understanding of everything than we lead on. That's why I say scientific method is great and everything, but not more important than anything else.

Hinduism: According to myth, the universe is constantly created and destroyed; before each successive creation, Visnhu's navel sprouts a lotus flower, from which the god himself emerges in his incarnation as Brahma, source of new life. Brahma breaks open the egg, thus beginning another cycle of rebirth and destruction.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

Hinduism: According to myth, the universe is constantly created and destroyed; before each successive creation, Visnhu's navel sprouts a lotus flower, from which the god himself emerges in his incarnation as Brahma, source of new life. Brahma breaks open the egg, thus beginning another cycle of rebirth and destruction.

That belief has not been scientifically verified.

Well scientifically theorized with the multiverse theory.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

Well scientifically theorized with the multiverse theory.

Oh, you meant it metaphorically. That is really trippy. I used to be way into Hinduism and was practically a Hindu myself. What I thought was mind blowing was how their idea of the oneness of all things ended up being somewhat supported by the theoretical physics notion of the unified theory of physics. The one thing is all things idea is something the Hindus were onto thousands of years ago. Higher consciousness just might be an excellent tool for figuring out the nature of reality. I think there is something to higher consciousness because I have experienced it.

A great book about the connections between Eastern philosophy and modern Physics is The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra. I highly recommend it.

http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Physics-Ex...4418174&sr=8-1

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Oh, you meant it metaphorically. That is really trippy. I used to be way into Hinduism and was practically a Hindu myself. What I thought was mind blowing was how their idea of the oneness of all things ended up being somewhat supported by the theoretical physics notion of the unified theory of physics. The one thing is all things idea is something the Hindus were onto thousands of years ago. Higher consciousness just might be an excellent tool for figuring out the nature of reality. I think there is something to higher consciousness because I have experienced it.

A great book about the connections between Eastern philosophy and modern Physics is The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra. I highly recommend it.

http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Physics-Ex...4418174&sr=8-1

Sounds good I might go read that - sounds like the quantum physics concepts that are proving that we can literally do anything we want and attract anything we want. It even proves that we can walk on walls, transport and walk on the astral plane, like the yogis do. We just have to vibrate faster of become smaller or something and we then become governed by a whole new set of physical laws, i.e quantum physics.

I can finally live out my dream of doing matrix kung fu. Excellent.

Originally Posted by Swank

Sounds good I might go read that - sounds like the quantum physics concepts that are proving that we can literally do anything we want and attract anything we want. It even proves that we can walk on walls, transport and walk on the astral plane, like the yogis do. We just have to vibrate faster of become smaller or something and we then become governed by a whole new set of physical laws, i.e quantum physics.

I can finally live out my dream of doing matrix kung fu. Excellent.

What in God's name? Are you being serious? This "astral plane" nonsense has never been remotely scientifically corroborated. The rest of your claims don't even make enough sense to refute properly.

I wasnt trying to make official claims idiot. these are just things ive heard about the depth of quantum physics. Thankyou for your pointless reply though.

Originally Posted by Swank

It even proves that...

Originally Posted by Swank

I wasnt trying to make official claims idiot.

Yeah, well you did. Don't get mad at me for asking for more substance to your post - if those weren't meant as 'official claims', and you really had no idea what you were talking about, then your post was the pointless one.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

Yeah, well you did. Don't get mad at me for asking for more substance to your post - if those weren't meant as 'official claims', and you really had no idea what you were talking about, then your post was the pointless one.

I was merely stating that I had heard of these things to be true, from others who had read the material. you're being petty and stupid. Shutup. I dont need evidence for everything I say. Go read another postmodern philosophy essay or something.

Originally Posted by Swank

I was merely stating that I had heard of these things to be true, from others who had read the material. you're being petty and stupid. Shutup. I dont need evidence for everything I say. Go read another postmodern philosophy essay or something.

I'm not the one making ridiculous assertions here. If you bring something up like 'astral planes' and 'walking on walls' by 'vibrating faster and becoming smaller' in a thread about an alleged scientific law, you can bet your ass someone will call you on it.

Surprisingly enough, being accused of valuing evidence and reading philosophical essays does not insult me in the least. You need to calm down and be less gullible in life, for the good of humanity.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

I'm not the one making ridiculous assertions here. If you bring something up like 'astral planes' and 'walking on walls' by 'vibrating faster and becoming smaller' in a thread about an alleged scientific law, you can bet your ass someone will call you on it.

Surprisingly enough, being accused of valuing evidence and reading philosophical essays does not insult me in the least. You need to calm down and be less gullible in life, for the good of humanity.

Dude the post was half comical half something id heard, life is not something that requires a bibliography

What in God's name? Are you being serious? This "astral plane" nonsense has never been remotely scientifically corroborated.

It is a shame that you think the Astral Plane is nonsense since it has not been proven that it exists. There's many things out there that we have yet to find out exist. There's probably a multitude of dimensions and planes that we won't even be able to access in our own lifetime. The Astral Plane is one of the most logical explanations of what the after-life is like and how it relates to the beginning of when consciousness began.

Just because we have not identified something yet does not mean it doesn't exist. How long ago did we discover what gravity was and how it works? How long ago did we finally realize that there are countless more planets and stars out there than ours? There are things in current existence that we probably will not be able to identifiy for centuries or even prove exists. Life is far more complex than what we can simply debate upon these forums. In truth, we are extremely ignorant when it comes to the universe and life. We can only simply debate of theories until the truth is eventually revealed. One of the few ways to experience the truth of the paranormal and spiritual is to simply experience it for yourself.

As far as the Law of Attraction goes, I believe it works as long as it is put into rational thinking. Growing a finger or attracting a car to appear out of nowhere is an asinine thought. The Law of Attraction has to do partially with the subconscious and our connection with all living consciousness throughout the world. When we attract something from constant thinking, action is being placed among a large amount of things.

Attracting a perfect mate, for example: You constantly think of what it would be like being with a counterpart, visualizing and emotionally feeling being with the person of your dreams. The constant thinking can create an infinte amount of scenarios. This mate you think of could commonly shop at some specific store but gets the thought to go to another one, one that you commonly shop at. Eventually, you two run into eachother. This is just one scenario out of many that I could think of.

For me, the Law has proven to be very factual. Although, it is difficult to prove it to someone who wants facts when it is only about thinking and experiencing. I'm not here to persuade anyone, but I tell you the more you focus on it the more powerful your manifestations become.

Originally Posted by Absolute

It is a shame that you think the Astral Plane is nonsense since it has not been proven that it exists. There's many things out there that we have yet to find out exist. There's probably a multitude of dimensions and planes that we won't even be able to access in our own lifetime. The Astral Plane is one of the most logical explanations of what the after-life is like and how it relates to the beginning of when consciousness began.

I wasn't aware that it had been proven to exist. Please explain how.

And you can't have a 'logical explanation' of the afterlife, when the afterlife itself is illogical and a clearly human invention stemming from our fear of death.

Originally Posted by Absolute

Just because we have not identified something yet does not mean it doesn't exist. How long ago did we discover what gravity was and how it works? How long ago did we finally realize that there are countless more planets and stars out there than ours? There are things in current existence that we probably will not be able to identifiy for centuries or even prove exists. Life is far more complex than what we can simply debate upon these forums. In truth, we are extremely ignorant when it comes to the universe and life. We can only simply debate of theories until the truth is eventually revealed.

True, but simply because things might exist definitely does not warrant assuming that they do. Ignorant as we are, we must stick to the tiny bit of knowledge and understanding of our universe that we have garnered so far. Astral planes and other dimensions have no evidence in favor of their existence, so it is unreasonable to assume that they do.

I wasn't aware that it had been proven to exist. Please explain how.

My apologies but I believe you misunderstood. I did not say that the Astral Realms had been scientifically proven. It is a theory that is the most logical. I also simply brought up the point that just because it hasn't been proven in our day and age yet does not mean it exists. Besides, how would you like me to prove it even exists when the only way at present age is to actually experience going there yourself? We do not have the technological means to identify it, yet.

And you can't have a 'logical explanation' of the afterlife, when the afterlife itself is illogical and a clearly human invention stemming from our fear of death.

You speak of the afterlife as if explanations are only black and white, either logical or illogical. I am one that is not afraid of death. It is something that I greatly look forward to. If physical life was our end, what would be the point for life to even exist if it ended so shortly? You say it is illogical due to fear, but I think the only fear is that which what religious leaders of the past have influenced into the minds of old times and modern day. You would be surprised of how much the Holy Mother Church and Emperor Constantine, as well as others have kept secret for centuries, bearing many truths of what lies beyond our physical life.

True, but simply because things might exist definitely does not warrant assuming that they do. Ignorant as we are, we must stick to the tiny bit of knowledge and understanding of our universe that we have garnered so far. Astral planes and other dimensions have no evidence in favor of their existence, so it is unreasonable to assume that they do.

But it also definitely does not warrant assuming that they do not. The Astral Planes, dimensions, and possibly other universes are something that we can not even fathom to access yet. We are an unsophisticated and unintelligent species compared to others that exist out there. The human body is capable of so very much. Our thought process is unbelievably powerful, let alone our metaphysical abilities that we have forgotten.

Gnome, I have a something to ask you. Do you find it unordinary if someone says they can move an object with their thoughts? Perhaps read other people's thoughts? Or even be able to travel to other planes with their spiritual consciousness? It sounds absurd, does it not?

Since birth we are capable of such things, but do you see our parents teaching us how to move a feather with our thoughts when we're mere kids? Perhaps transfering thoughts? Levitation? Simple guided meditation? Of course not. We are not exercising the true 'muscle' that matters the most. By the age of 18, a common adult loses about half of their entire neurons because he/she isn't using them all. Imagine what potential and awareness could be unlocked if we kept all parts of our brain active. Imagine being capable of recognizing anomolies such as other dimensions and planes without technological means or proof because you could experience it yourself.

Originally Posted by Absolute

My apologies but I believe you misunderstood. I did not say that the Astral Realms had been scientifically proven. It is a theory that is the most logical. I also simply brought up the point that just because it hasn't been proven in our day and age yet does not mean it exists. Besides, how would you like me to prove it even exists when the only way at present age is to actually experience going there yourself? We do not have the technological means to identify it, yet.

How do you know that it's not just an illusion, a hallucination like a lucid dream?

Originally Posted by Absolute

You speak of the afterlife as if explanations are only black and white, either logical or illogical. I am one that is not afraid of death. It is something that I greatly look forward to. If physical life was our end, what would be the point for life to even exist if it ended so shortly?

You are afraid of death. You're not afraid of the death which you've convinced yourself is followed by something else, but the idea of a final, irreversible descent into nothingness terrifies you. It does all human beings, until we get close enough to be comfortable with the idea.

Originally Posted by Absolute

But it also definitely does not warrant assuming that they do not.

Yes, it does. If there is no evidence of something, then we can safely assume that it does not exist, for our purposes. See Russel's Teapot.

Originally Posted by Absolute

The human body is capable of so very much. Our thought process is unbelievably powerful, let alone our metaphysical abilities that we have forgotten.

There it is again - you guys are afraid of just being little mammals on a rock in some forlorn corner of the universe. You invent powers and eternal components to your frail bodies so that you can go about your daily lives without fearing your inevitable demise.

Originally Posted by Absolute

Gnome, I have a something to ask you. Do you find it unordinary if someone says they can move an object with their thoughts? Perhaps read other people's thoughts? Or even be able to travel to other planes with their spiritual consciousness? It sounds absurd, does it not?

It sounds like wishful thinking, like I've said before. Fairy tales are very reassuring.

Originally Posted by Absolute

Since birth we are capable of such things, but do you see our parents teaching us how to move a feather with our thoughts when we're mere kids? Perhaps transfering thoughts? Levitation? Simple guided meditation? Of course not. We are not exercising the true 'muscle' that matters the most.

There is no evidence that any of that is possible.

Originally Posted by Absolute

By the age of 18, a common adult loses about half of their entire neurons because he/she isn't using them all.

And that's just a straight up lie.

Originally Posted by Absolute

Imagine what potential and awareness could be unlocked if we kept all parts of our brain active. Imagine being capable of recognizing anomolies such as other dimensions and planes without technological means or proof because you could experience it yourself.

Your neuroscience is bollocks. Your imagination is worse.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

If it's a law, it's not unlikely. It's going to happen, period. So quit talking about it, and go do it already.

You don't understand how they relate. If a Law is always working, then it is an unlikely event simply because it is an unlikely thought. No matter if the event does or doesn't happen, or how long it takes, as a Law this is always obeying our thoughts. And no, I will not go and "do it already", because I seriously cannot be bothered trying.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

I wasn't aware that it had been proven to exist. Please explain how.

Well I can state how: Personal Experience. If I explained that you still wouldn't accept it.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

How do you know that it's not just an illusion, a hallucination like a lucid dream?

The same way somebody knows that an image on a TV screen is more than an illusion. But then, is it necessary to call it an illusion?

Originally Posted by thegnome54

Yes, it does. If there is no evidence of something, then we can safely assume that it does not exist, for our purposes. See Russel's Teapot.

This is ignorance. Imagine if I had evidence of something and only by not being evident to everyone else. It doesn't exist, for others.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

Your neuroscience is bollocks. Your imagination is worse.

Obviously you can tell the difference, even when there is none.

How do you know that it's not just an illusion, a hallucination like a lucid dream?

Not to be offensive but isn't this question redundant? How do we know that this life isn't an illusion or hallucination?

You are afraid of death. You're not afraid of the death which you've convinced yourself is followed by something else, but the idea of a final, irreversible descent into nothingness terrifies you. It does all human beings, until we get close enough to be comfortable with the idea.

It is not I that is afraid of death, it is you. Your beliefs create your reality. You have not experienced anything out of the norm to convince yourself rather than what we know scientifically. There is no possible way to prove anything to you unless if you experience it yourself, like I have all ready suggested. I personally don't care if I 'cease to be' after this life because death is the inevitable, but I still have my experiences and studies to back up my own beliefs. You are the one who has fear of death, not I.

Yes, it does. If there is no evidence of something, then we can safely assume that it does not exist, for our purposes. See Russel's Teapot.

That is a matter of perception, not factual ethics of what reality is and isn't. There have been many of Einstein's theories proven wrong even though there was 'evidence to back his theories up'. Just because we may have evidence to support or deny something doesn't mean there isn't evidence to our current and ignorant understanding that supports another theory.

There it is again - you guys are afraid of just being little mammals on a rock in some forlorn corner of the universe. You invent powers and eternal components to your frail bodies so that you can go about your daily lives without fearing your inevitable demise.

Again, you try and speak for our free will when it is so off course. I am not afraid, you are. I am well aware of what type of species I am and where our planet is located. Powers and eternal components are not invented. It is futile to try and open your mind when all you rely on is facts that we currently know in our books, yet you haven't even experienced anything out of the norm of this narrow minded world.

It sounds like wishful thinking, like I've said before. Fairy tales are very reassuring.

Since when do fairy tales and magick have any relevance to the capability of our minds and spirits? Your ignorance is astounding, my friend.

There is no evidence that any of that is possible.

Oh really?

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...-23109,00.html

Oh, but this is an illusion, right? Because things like powers and eternal components are only imaginary.

Your neuroscience is bollocks. Your imagination is worse.

You need to learn to stop taking debates on these forums so offensively. I'm simply discussing with you of the possibilities of humankind. My imagination is quite vast, my dear friend. It is yours that has boundaries.

Originally Posted by Absolute

Not to be offensive but isn't this question redundant? How do we know that this life isn't an illusion or hallucination?

We don't, but that question is irrelevant - we are all sharing the same world, so if it is illusory or not does not matter. If you claim, however, to have experienced a world on your own, then it becomes an entirely different matter.

Originally Posted by Absolute

It is not I that is afraid of death, it is you. Your beliefs create your reality. You have not experienced anything out of the norm to convince yourself rather than what we know scientifically. There is no possible way to prove anything to you unless if you experience it yourself, like I have all ready suggested.

Please explain how my beliefs reflect a fear of death. It seems to me that you're engaging in a game of 'no, you blah blah', and not actually grasping my point when I accuse you of succumbing to this fear. Do you at least accept the fact that your beliefs happen to be very reassuring, compared to mine?

If I saw someone falling upwards, I would not discard the theory of gravitation. I would investigate and attempt to reconcile this with accepted knowledge. The same thing applies to all unusual experiences. One does not simply assume that their physical law-breaking daydreams are a reality because they "felt real". We of all people should know better than to take our experiences at face value.

Originally Posted by Absolute

That is a matter of perception, not factual ethics of what reality is and isn't. There have been many of Einstein's theories proven wrong even though there was 'evidence to back his theories up'. Just because we may have evidence to support or deny something doesn't mean there isn't evidence to our current and ignorant understanding that supports another theory.

"Factual ethics"?
You don't seem to know the scientific definition of a 'theory'. A scientific theory is EXTREMELY rarely proven wrong. Einstein's hypotheses may have been proven wrong on a regular basis, though, yes. I'm also very aware that science is always a work in progress. However, science is still the only way to go about learning about this world. Science is imperfect, but it is the only way.

Originally Posted by Absolute

Powers and eternal components are not invented. It is futile to try and open your mind when all you rely on is facts that we currently know in our books, yet you haven't even experienced anything out of the norm of this narrow minded world.

Yes, how small-minded of me to rely on such petty things as facts. My sincerest apologies.

You cannot be sure that powers and eternal components are not invented, just as I can't. Our minds are biological machines, and they are imperfect - muddled perceptions and hallucinations occur quite often, and to trust blindly in your senses when your brain is in unusual states (meditation, sleep, on drugs) is very foolish. Just because your computer works quite well most of the time doesn't mean that you can trust its work when there's a wrench stuck in it and it's under water.

Originally Posted by Absolute

Since when do fairy tales and magick have any relevance to the capability of our minds and spirits? Your ignorance is astounding, my friend.

Quite so, but I don't attempt to compensate for it by making crap up.

Originally Posted by Absolute

Oh really?

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...-23109,00.html

Oh, but this is an illusion, right? Because things like powers and eternal components are only imaginary.

Did you notice that he calls himself an "illusionist"? So what's your point? Eternal components and magical powers exist because some dude can present the illusion that he's levitating?

Originally Posted by Absolute

You need to learn to stop taking debates on these forums so offensively. I'm simply discussing with you of the possibilities of humankind. My imagination is quite vast, my dear friend. It is yours that has boundaries.

I only take them offensively when people like you lie to me. You do not know what you're talking about when it comes to the brain, and to pretend to is to lie. Unless, of course, you've personally experienced that we lose half of our neurons by age eighteen, in which case your information is obviously beyond the reach of modern science.

We don't, but that question is irrelevant - we are all sharing the same world, so if it is illusory or not does not matter. If you claim, however, to have experienced a world on your own, then it becomes an entirely different matter.

But what if others are in the same world but outside of our common perception reality and share the same experience? Possible coincidence?

Please explain how my beliefs reflect a fear of death. It seems to me that you're engaging in a game of 'no, you blah blah', and not actually grasping my point when I accuse you of succumbing to this fear. Do you at least accept the fact that your beliefs happen to be very reassuring, compared to mine?

I completely grasp your point but don't understand why you would assume that I am fearful of death and because of this I'm believing in 'fabricated eternal components' to make it seem like there is something beyond death to relieve me of the fear. You accused me of fear when I've never been afraid. Then you tell me I'm playing a game of, 'no, blah blah'.

If I saw someone falling upwards, I would not discard the theory of gravitation. I would investigate and attempt to reconcile this with accepted knowledge. The same thing applies to all unusual experiences. One does not simply assume that their physical law-breaking daydreams are a reality because they "felt real". We of all people should know better than to take our experiences at face value.

What you say is logical but it still doesn't discard the fact that you haven't experienced anything that is out of the norm to change your perception on reality.

You don't seem to know the scientific definition of a 'theory'. A scientific theory is EXTREMELY rarely proven wrong. Einstein's hypotheses may have been proven wrong on a regular basis, though, yes. I'm also very aware that science is always a work in progress. However, science is still the only way to go about learning about this world. Science is imperfect, but it is the only way.

Of course, and I am in complete agreement with you. Since it is imperfect, however, I do not consider one thing possible and another not. I consider all possibilities, regardless if I may or may not have an explanation for it. This is why I believe in what I believe in, same reason why you believe in your perception of reality with the facts you have researched. What I wonder is, if you find something that doesn't have facts to support it, do you ever attempt to theorize yourself concerning the possibility since no one else has come up with the answer yet? You can believe whatever you want to believe.

Yes, how small-minded of me to rely on such petty things as facts. My sincerest apologies.

You cannot be sure that powers and eternal components are not invented, just as I can't. Our minds are biological machines, and they are imperfect - muddled perceptions and hallucinations occur quite often, and to trust blindly in your senses when your brain is in unusual states (meditation, sleep, on drugs) is very foolish. Just because your computer works quite well most of the time doesn't mean that you can trust its work when there's a wrench stuck in it and it's under water.

So everyone who sees auras, who astral projects, who speaks telepathically between others, and moves objects with their mind are all simply being blinded by tricks of the brain even if there are spectators? Or just because we can not explain it, it is perhaps an illusion?

Quite so, but I don't attempt to compensate for it by making crap up.

Since when am I or anyone in this topic making crap up? This topic originally was about the Law of Attraction. Despite this and what the conversation has turned into, I have a different perception of reality due to my experiences and research and the same with you. Just because you don't believe in what myself and others believe in doesn't mean it is 'crap'.

Did you notice that he calls himself an "illusionist"? So what's your point? Eternal components and magical powers exist because some dude can present the illusion that he's levitating?

I believe you misread the page, my friend. The website declared him as a commonly known illusionist, obviously because whoever wrote the article does not believe in metaphysics. He himself declares it as an art, and the practice itself is becoming quite common in India. There's so many other videos that I could give you links to as well with an alternate view of metaphysics than simply levitation. Then again, your beliefs may simply discard it as illusion.

I only take them offensively when people like you lie to me. You do not know what you're talking about when it comes to the brain, and to pretend to is to lie. Unless, of course, you've personally experienced that we lose half of our neurons by age eighteen, in which case your information is obviously beyond the reach of modern science.

Again, another accusation that which is false. I have not lied to you in any way. I've simply stated a few things that which are out of your area of study and interest since not many facts back them up besides experiencing it for yourself. Perhaps I may have been mistaken about what I read a while back in regards to the neurons, but if I was mistaken why does that imply to me as a liar and be faced by such fury against you when it is so unecessary? Can you simply bring up some facts to support that my comment was false and simply say "I believe you are incorrect" rather than "Oh, you're a liar."

You appear to be very biased against things that don't correlate with your perception of reality, and with that you back your comments with such anger over something that is so insignificant. Then again, that is what debates are commonly full of: confrontation. I don't understand why it can never be left out. I guess people get too caught up with emotions, especially on these discussion boards.

Anywho, it was a pleasure conversing with you on this topic. If you'd like to continue further I'd ask you to kindly PM me so that we don't get off the original topic and can allow the discussion of the Law of Attraction to continue.

You are afraid of death. You're not afraid of the death which you've convinced yourself is followed by something else, but the idea of a final, irreversible descent into nothingness terrifies you. It does all human beings, until we get close enough to be comfortable with the idea.

I am personally MUCH, MUCH more afraid of infinite existence, and I think everyone else would be as well when the really take the time to think about what infinite really means.

But until science can prove to me, how I, the observer, the human consciousness can even exist in the first place, in this one body, in this one time period - I think it's a pretty safe assumption that to say there is some kind of existence after this one. From here, there's about a million different possibilities and beliefs.

I would say, because we exist, and the universe exists - an afterlife, or some kind of follow up existence has a more solid foundation than a theory that claims there is absolutely nothing once the universe ends, either through the Big Rip or Big Crush.