Thread: The Law Of Attraction

Are people still arguing about this? Last I checked, there was some kind of comment about materializing a BMW or something. I have some friends who really started talking about BMW's. They were constantly thinking about them, and you know what? When we hung out, they kept pointing at beemers everywhere we went. I didn't know there were that many around... but when you think about it, if you go for a long walk and notice 5 of them... that seems like a lot compared to not paying attention, but 5 bmw's noticed during a long walk... is not that much. YES, we should all pay closer attention to the things we desire, because many pieces of those things are right around us, and we've failed to notice them... but I really REALLY hope nobody's trying to pass off some ridiculous law that "those bwm's materialized there" or something like that.... ugh...

If you use the "magic materialization" thing as a tool to model what you're experiencing (even though it's obviously nothing out of the ordinary and nothing new), that's fine, but of all things, don't try to pass off crackpot theories using a branch of science that the top scientists in that branch don't even understand yet.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut_Jeff777

1. Don't call me son.

2. Network marketing (You do know what that is right? If not I'll be more than happy to explain it to you) has created more millionaires in the past decade than any other business. Donald Trump, Robert Kiyosaki and many others alike recommend it as a great way to network, build wealth and passive residual income without the high cost of overhead. It's not so much about the product as it is your ability to move people. In the 70's Gary Dahl sold "pet rocks" and became a millionaire. Point made.

3. You say "digits" don't matter. In a world that runs on "digits", I think most of the world's population would disagree with you. But if it doesn't matter to you, I emphatically implore you to stop working and then tell me if the "digits" still don't matter. Congratulations on your mildly impressive success as well, it's not about money though right, It's whatever makes you happy and as long as your happy...that's all that counts, even if you are being out done financially by a "kid".

4. For the record, what business are you in? You did a background search in my involvements...great more exposure for us. But what exactly is it that you do.

First off, respect is easily lost, never given, and slowly earned. So I feel the term was befitting, given your stance. You need to earn the right to be called something other than, son. Your perspective or lack there-of clearly shows your inexperience.

Secondly, you don't need to convince me of your self-importance and financial success. You seem to have done a good enough job with that on yourself. Confidence is a good thing as long as you don't let it turn into empty arrogance with nothing backing it. Just remember where you are, and how long you've been here. Why are you trying so hard to gain pseudo props in the e-community for this fake e-persona you've built up around yourself, if you've truly reached the success you so proudly speak of? You speak with such subtle desperation for acceptance on here, it makes your story kind of hard to believe. Success speaks for itself, and should exude out of every orifice of one's character in your dealings with others. If you are unable to do that, it doesn't matter what the balance of your supposed bank account is, success has not yet been had. And, with that said, I have nothing to prove about my business to anyone on the internet, it's an english conversation school admist other side projects like music event production. I just thought I'd let you know you were wrong in your subjective judgements on me...but clearly you still feel you are better in some twisted way. Hey, whatever helps you through the day, son.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut_Jeff777

The law of attraction is DEAD unless you take action.

What you describe is NOT the law of attraction. You are describing "if you think about something more often and spend more time focusing on it, you will be more likely to accomplish it". That is not what this law is supposedly about.

The law is supposed to be that if you simply think about an item, the universe will give it to you.

You probably don't believe me, because you are rational. "No one could possibly be so foolish!", right?

Originally Posted by illusions

But I did attract the car I want by simply wanting it, and then focusing on feeling good It came in the way of a gift out of the blue from a family member - and I absolutely LOVE it!

I rest my case.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

What you describe is NOT the law of attraction. You are describing "if you think about something more often and spend more time focusing on it, you will be more likely to accomplish it". That is not what this law is supposedly about.

The law is supposed to be that if you simply think about an item, the universe will give it to you.

If that's how you define the law or if that's how it is defined, I would have to say I don't believe in that either.

Gnome:

The law is supposed to be that if you simply think about an item, the universe will give it to you.

lol, Gnome, I think you may have very limited information on this subject. I'm not sure where you've got the information from? What books have you read?

As I mentioned before, the movie "The Secret" (I haven't read the book), is only an Introduction to the LOA and I do feel they should have made it clear in the movie (or at the end of it) that there is way too much to this, to fit into a 2 hour movie, that it is only an Introduction, and that viewers should do further research if they're interested in finding out more - and if they wish to use the LOA successfuly. They could then have given some references to the huge amount of further information available.

Having said that, even in the movie The Secret, they certainly did not say: "If you simply think about an item, the universe will give it to you." ... so again, I don't know where you got this from?

As I said before Gnome, if you're actually interested in finding out about the LOA (as with any subject), then it's important to do some research on it.

Love and Light and Magic xxx

illusions you never addressed my legitimate qualms with the LOA...

With your obvious subjective limited views on the LOA and talking about how it can draw these finite material items into each individual's oh-so-important life providing them with these oh-so-important finite moments of satisfaction and complacency, which natural disaster do you plan to attract into your life in the coming days to balance us out as a species being so blindly consumeristic in nature and being these parasitic leeches off of the earth that we have been for so long? Everyone and everything gets balanced out and reaches it's own comeuppance...there simply is no free lunch. You choose complacency, greed, and ignorance, in order to avoid realization, and truth. And that is the real secret most never take the time to delve deep enough to discover. Karmic debt is coming back to reap what humanity has sewn for itself. Enjoy those stock portfolios while they last. Those fleeting finite figments of your mind. Simple distractions in time.

Love, Light, and all that jazz... however, you can only stay in the positive for so long before you drop back to the negative. That is undeniable.

...What goes up, must come down

Originally Posted by SolSkye

illusions you never addressed my legitimate qualms with the LOA...

With your obvious subjective limited views on the LOA and talking about how it can draw finite material items into each individual's oh-so-important life providing them with these oh-so-important finite moments of satisfaction and complacency, which natural disaster do you plan to attract into your life to balance out us as a species being the blind consumeristic leech off of the earth that we have been for so long? Everyone and everything gets balanced out and reaches it's own comeuppance...there simply is no free lunch. You choose complacency and ignorance, to avoid realization and truth. And that is the real secret most never take the time to delve deep enough to discover. Karmic debt is coming back to reap what humanity has sewn for itself. Enjoy those stock portfolios while they last. Those fleeting finite figments of your mind. Distractions in time.

Love, Light, and all that jazz...pfft

Hi Solskye

I didn't think of answering because I get the impression from your posts that you're not really interested in genuinely finding out more information on the subject, but are simply airing your views - which is fine of course, but I didn't think you were really wanting an answer.

So, apologies for missing any genuine request for information, and here's my reply.

Yours is of course one of many many many beliefs about how the world and life works (as is mine). As I've said before, I have no desire to convince anyone to believe what I believe because I believe that each of us chooses what makes sense them, and I'm quite happy to "believe and let believe" lol.

I used to believe that when something good happened, it would be balanced by something bad, and visa-versa. I used to believe something similar to "Everyone and everything gets balanced out and reaches it's own comeuppance...there simply is no free lunch." ... and I used to believe in Karma and the plight of humanity.... amongst a lot of other beliefs. I've lived in fear, I've suffered from depression, I've come close to "checking out" just so I could come face-to-face with whoever or whatever put me here, I've lived in guilt (for other's mistakes and behaviour as well as my own), I've gone through "punishment" for things I was not responsible for, I've subscribed to numerous limitting beliefs, I've tried to help to "save the world" in the small ways I thought I could and the ways in which I was led to believe I could, I've "sacrificed", and I've "paid my dues" in various ways.

Then, through various life experience, struggle, drama, dissilusionment, discovery, dissappointment, reading, talking to others, finding out about things that puzzled me and didn't make sense, my beliefs started to change. I started noticing, amongst many other things, that there ARE indeed people (I know some personally) who are happy, get what they want (in all areas of life, including material posessions and wealth), and miraculously go through their lives without getting any kind of "come-uppance". Most of them give to one or more charity, and many are lovely people. The common denominators seemed to be (in order of apparant effect) 1. Self Esteem and Self Love; 2. Focusing on what feels good, not on what is "wrong"; 3. A belief that each of us is able to choose how we react to something; and 4. Accepting good and feeling comfortable with receiving.

"Struggle", "hard work", "self sacrifice" and any kind of focus on what was "wrong" did not seem to be part of their experience.

But apart from that, I just started finding that my previous beliefs (along with the religions I'd come across) just didn't make sense to me. It was like finding out that Father Christmas doesn't exist (except it wasn't a bad thing lol) - it was so obvious to me once I found out. Of course, presumably you (and many others) would see my beliefs as "Father Christmas" lol.

Let's face it, as I've said several times before, there is no absolute proof of the "Ultimate Truth". There is only subjective experience and heresay, and therefore what makes sense to the individual. And presumably, the only time we'll know for sure what the "Ultimate Truth" is, is when we check out of this physical consciousness, and get to see it from the outside.

Until then, we can only guess, or go with what feels right and resonates with, and makes sense to us. But of course, being individuals, with unique life experiences and individual perceptions, what feels right and makes sense to some people, won't necessarily feel right and make sense to others.

So I understand that you believe that when a person focuses only on feeling good, in order to create the life they want, it causes an opposite reaction, and that means that something bad will be the result, for that person and/or for the rest of humanity (at least that's what I've understood from your posts, please correct me if I've misunderstood), and I completely accept your belief and I can see how it makes sense to you. And I also accept the belief of those who still think the earth is flat, and I can see how it makes sense to them (in fact, their argument is pretty convincing lol). But it's not my belief.

I'm always interested in hearing what others believe, and if it makes sense to me, I'm open to it. What you've described here just doesn't resonate as true for me anymore.

Love and Light and Choice xxx

Originally Posted by SolSkye

With all due respect, allow me to step into my subjective ego for just one quick side question. I see you are in Mississippi. Pardon my bias from my past dealings with other people from Mississippi on here, but, what on earth could possibly be so lucrative coming out of Mississippi? I just don't see it. Besides, Textile steel mills, roofing, and TV/VCR repair...What else is there? I don't get it. The next Dixie Chicks album?

It looks like you have made Jeff your assholishness target of the week. It is so funny when people with your level of personality disturbance act arrogant while showing their ignorance. That is the story of your life, isn't it? To answer your idiot question, Worldcom was based here, Skytel is headquartered here, we have the Malaco recording company based here, tons of large corporations have offices here, we have a whole world of small businesses of a zillion different kinds, and Mississippi has the second biggest gambling industry in the United States, behind only Nevada.

http://www.jobbankusa.com/jobs/missi...employers.html

Your ignorance is harmless and amusing, but I hope you aren't torturing anybody with that horror you call your music today.

Originally Posted by illusions

Hi Solskye

I didn't think of answering because I get the impression from your posts that you're not really interested in genuinely finding out more information on the subject, but are simply airing your views - which is fine of course, but I didn't think you were really wanting an answer.

So, apologies for missing any genuine request for information, and here's my reply.

Yours is of course one of many many many beliefs about how the world and life works (as is mine). As I've said before, I have no desire to convince anyone to believe what I believe because I believe that each of us chooses what makes sense them, and I'm quite happy to "believe and let believe" lol.

I used to believe that when something good happened, it would be balanced by something bad, and visa-versa. I used to believe something similar to "Everyone and everything gets balanced out and reaches it's own comeuppance...there simply is no free lunch." ... and I used to believe in Karma and the plight of humanity.... amongst a lot of other beliefs. I've lived in fear, I've suffered from depression, I've come close to "checking out" just so I could come face-to-face with whoever or whatever put me here, I've lived in guilt (for other's mistakes and behaviour as well as my own), I've gone through "punishment" for things I was not responsible for, I've subscribed to numerous limitting beliefs, I've tried to help to "save the world" in the small ways I thought I could and the ways in which I was led to believe I could, I've "sacrificed", and I've "paid my dues" in various ways.

Then, through various life experience, struggle, drama, dissilusionment, discovery, dissappointment, reading, talking to others, finding out about things that puzzled me and didn't make sense, my beliefs started to change. I started noticing, amongst many other things, that there ARE indeed people (I know some personally) who are happy, get what they want (in all areas of life, including material posessions and wealth), and miraculously go through their lives without getting any kind of "come-uppance". Most of them give to one or more charity, and many are lovely people. The common denominators seemed to be (in order of apparant effect) 1. Self Esteem and Self Love; 2. Focusing on what feels good, not on what is "wrong"; 3. A belief that each of us is able to choose how we react to something; and 4. Accepting good and feeling comfortable with receiving.

"Struggle", "hard work", "self sacrifice" and any kind of focus on what was "wrong" did not seem to be part of their experience.

But apart from that, I just started finding that my previous beliefs (along with the religions I'd come across) just didn't make sense to me. It was like finding out that Father Christmas doesn't exist (except it wasn't a bad thing lol) - it was so obvious to me once I found out. Of course, presumably you (and many others) would see my beliefs as "Father Christmas" lol.

Let's face it, as I've said several times before, there is no absolute proof of the "Ultimate Truth". There is only subjective experience and heresay, and therefore what makes sense to the individual. And presumably, the only time we'll know for sure what the "Ultimate Truth" is, is when we check out of this physical consciousness, and get to see it from the outside.

Until then, we can only guess, or go with what feels right and resonates with, and makes sense to us. But of course, being individuals, with unique life experiences and individual perceptions, what feels right and makes sense to some people, won't necessarily feel right and make sense to others.

So I understand that you believe that when a person focuses only on feeling good, in order to create the life they want, it causes an opposite reaction, and that means that something bad will be the result, for that person and/or for the rest of humanity (at least that's what I've understood from your posts, please correct me if I've misunderstood), and I completely accept your belief and I can see how it makes sense to you. And I also accept the belief of those who still think the earth is flat, and I can see how it makes sense to them (in fact, their argument is pretty convincing lol). But it's not my belief.

I'm always interested in hearing what others believe, and if it makes sense to me, I'm open to it. What you've described here just doesn't resonate as true for me anymore.

Love and Light and Choice xxx

Well, considering every molecule of who and what you are, is in essence broken down to protons (+), neutrons (neither), and electrons (-) randomly dancing and flitting about enjoying themselves and the space between. It would be beyond silly to think yourself more positive than negative. You are always an equal amount of both positive and negative. That is something one must simply accept. The thing is, most people don't try and stay balanced and enjoy the space inbetween...and that's where injustice and imbalance occur in nature and nearly all facets of this reality. Just because someone seemingly gets away with murder doesn't mean you should blindly follow down the same path, thinking you will reach some sort of profound absolution. Sure, in some cases, acceptance of truth is a seemingly hard thing to do. Therefore, believing in those temporary delusions can seem to take those people further or offer more relief...but lets be real here... they are still delusions. Coping mechanisms of the mind to avoid dealing with the truth. Patchwork to a dam on the verge of collapse.

I do agree that one's mentality has alot to do with one's success in practical terms, but to what end? What subjectively determines success? Living the american dream? Materialism? I think it goes a lot deeper than what the secret alludes to in their DVD and book. As I gain age and experience, I realize and accept myself for who and what I actually am, that's where my real power flows from. The realization of the practical truths staring you in the face at any given moment. The space between connecting us all.

I find it delusional to ignore the negative elements of one's self and the world around them and act like they just don't exist, anymore. Take responsibility. The bigger the gap you think there is, between you and the other objects out there, the bigger it gets. I'm just wanted to express how disappointed I am with how the secret tried to cash in on the masses and dumbed down the LOA to a superficial materialistic level, rather than explain the power of self and taking responsibility for who and what you really are.

Haven't we as an inter-connected unit put enough materialistic salves on our wounds, to distract us from who and what we are? There is only so long the material dream will last before it too... pops. It's coming soon, if you can't already feel it with all the odd record breaking temperatures and what not. One might as well learn to come to grips with yourself, instead of getting caught up in this outside distraction...what will you do when the ability to distract yourself is over, and it's only you? What will you do then? Just a thought.

I tell ya, Some people just refuse to grow the F**K up!

Anyway, I've used the law of attraction on several occassions and yes the technique if used correctly and at the time it should be used can give positive results. One thing you can't want it you have to play it on a differently level you have to want it and not yet want it at the same time.

peace-

Solskye:

Well, considering every molecule of who and what you are, is in essence broken down to a proton (+) and a neutron (-) randomly dancing and flitting about enjoying themselves and the space between. It would be beyond silly to think yourself more positive than negative. You are always an equal amount of both positive and negative. That is something one must simply accept. The thing is, most people don't try and stay balanced and enjoy the space inbetween...and that's where injustice and imbalance occur in nature and nearly all facets of this reality. Just because someone seemingly gets away with murder doesn't mean you should blindly follow down the same path, thinking you will reach some sort of profound absolution. Sure, in some cases, acceptance of truth is a seemingly hard thing to do. Therefore, believing in those temporary delusions can seem to take those people further or offer more relief...but lets be real here... they are still delusions. Coping mechanisms of the mind to avoid dealing with the truth. Patchwork to a dam on the verge of collapse.

I do agree that one's mentality has alot to do with one's success in practical terms, but to what end? What subjectively determines success? Living the american dream? Materialism? I think it goes a lot deeper than what the secret alludes to in their DVD and book. As I gain age and experience, I realize and accept myself for who and what I actually am, that's where my real power flows from. The realization of the practical truths staring you in the face at any given moment. The space between connecting us all.

I find it delusional to ignore the negative elements of one's self and the world around them and act like they just don't exist, anymore. Take responsibility. The bigger the gap you think there is, between you and the other objects out there, the bigger it gets. I'm just wanted to express how disappointed I am with how the secret tried to cash in on the masses and dumbed down the LOA to a superficial materialistic level, rather than explain the power of self and taking responsibility for who and what you really are.

Haven't we as an inter-connected unit put enough materialistic salves on our wounds, to distract us from who and what we are? There is only so long the material dream will last before it too... pops. It's coming soon, if you can't already feel it with all the odd record breaking temperatures and what not. One might as well learn to come to grips with yourself, instead of getting caught up in this outside distraction...what will you do when the ability to distract yourself is over, and it's only you? What will you do then? Just a thought.

I understand what you're saying Solskye, and we do have some common ground, along with dissagreements.

I thought I'd clarify my own beliefs, which may help to explain where I'm coming from...

The combination of everything I've experienced and learned up to now, has led to the following belief which resonates as truth for me:

I believe that we are expressions of one power, choosing to to experience separation in the illusion of physical consciousness. I believe that nothing in the physical world is solid or real, but that the illusion is held in place by the limits of physical consciousness.

I believe that the "real" us cannot really be harmed or injured in any way - any more than a person watching a horror movie can be harmed or injured by the events in the movie. BUT... if the illusion is clever enough - if the acting, script and special effects are relistic enough, that person's body will REACT as if the danger is real.

When a person watches a convincing horror movie, their body reacts as if the danger is real - heart rate increases, palms sweat, feelings of fear.... etc. The body seems to believe the danger is real. It is only a small percentage of that person (the conscious mind) that stops them from running screaming into the street. - because the conscious mind knows the danger is not real, it's a movie.

I believe the same goes for this physical experience. The greater part of us that is outside of physical consciousness, cannot be harmed in any way. And that part of us knows it's just an illusion, but in order to get the full experience, we have to not keep looking around the cinema. We need to believe the illusion is real.

I also believe that we get to choose, moment to moment, what type of experience we want to have - whether we want to experience fun and excitement and abundance, or whether we want to experience lack and struggle and drama (which is a novelty for us since there is no such thing in "reality" ). Think of a fun fair, some rides are gentle and fun, some will make you throw up lol (and those, of course, can still be fun). Some people prefer one type and won't go on the others, other people like a bit of both.

Part of this belief is that duality is also an illusion - something that is part of physical consciousness, but that doesn't exist outside of physical consciousness.

And so, if I choose a musical comedy, I don't believe that I will necessarily be frog-marched into a horror movie against my will.

And because of my belief of the nature of physical consciousness, I believe that we are here to experience what we choose to experience. I had chosen to experience struggle and suffering and drama for the first 40 years of my life. Then I changed my mind, and am now choosing to experience fun, excitement, abundance, compassion, and love. I have to admit, I'm enjoying this part of my experience much more.

I believe that when we "die" in physical consciousness, we return to the power of bliss and love that we are a part of, becoming aware again, that the sensation of separation was an illusion - a "game". That part of the power may then choose to experience a different kind of physical consciousness, or not.

This is obviously a way of explaining it in terms that are comprehendable to the conscious mind - the real truth is presumably beyond conscious comprehension. But it's the best I can come up with from inside the game. lol

There's also a lot more to what I believe, but this is quite a long post already.

I reitterate - I am not saying this is THE Ultimate Truth, I'm saying this is what I believe. It is what makes sense to me after what I've experienced, read about, researched etc. I could be wrong of course.... but until I "die", I can only go with what FEELS true and makes sense to me. Unless I have some kind of "out of world experience" that shows me the outside of the fish bowl.

Love and Light and Fun xxx

Originally Posted by illusions

there is way too much to this, to fit into a 2 hour movie, that it is only an Introduction, and that viewers should do further research if they're interested in finding out more - and if they wish to use the LOA successfuly.

I'm going to have to assume you're referring to the more general belief that if you think positive thoughts, you will experience positive experiences, and vice versa. Excuse me if I'm wrong, to be fair you're being a bit vague here.

If this were truly a Law, then it would never be wrong. So what would happen if you threw a brick up into the air above your head, looked up at it and thought the most pleasant, positive thoughts you possibly could? Would it be any less painful when the LAW of gravity brought it crashing down into your face?

You keep questioning my assertion that there is no Law of Attraction. Well, I know it's wikipedia, but look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_science

There aren't all that many scientific laws, and this "law of attraction" is NOT one of them.

This pseudo-law is easily explained by the psychological impacts of different thought patterns on yourself and others. If you isolate yourself from other sentient beings, you will notice that your thoughts have no effect on the world save your own perception of it. Actually, if you're really delusional, you probably won't notice this, which is the problem.

Usually I don't comment on these threads, but I feel a need to step into this one... A lot of the things mentioned are disturbingly similar to my thoughts of late.

We can 'argue' the semantics of the LOA based on science, but really, what do you believe that will achieve? Further alienation of believers and skeptics? Wonderful.

History dictates that there will always be principles and facts undiscovered by man. I was under the impression that much of science was founded to aid in such discovery, so who could truly call themselves men of science, and yet refuse to explore?

No, this isn't going to be another rant dismissing the foundations of science... there is nothing to be gained there.

You might argue that a law requires set, and unchanging properties. Agreed? Was gravity any less of a law before the observations became numbers and values? Observation, is of course, the basis of reason. Once more agreed?

Then what say you when a number of people, a large number, in fact, begin making observations on something that edges our current belief? Something, moreover, almost or totally impossible to verify? This certainly would be a bit of a problem, if it is not to be dismissed entirely! As it were, this is quite an often occurrence in our little history. I'm afraid to dismiss the supposedly impossible is to live on a flat Earth, at the center at the Universe. (I'll bet nobody saw this one coming! )

My apologies if this was not entirely coherent. I am lacking caffeine, you see.


More to the Law of Attraction, I have "used" it in the past. I have also gotten fairly assuring results.

After seeing a video on YouTube, (Not unlike video mentioned in the OP, it seems) I developed a quick method. I hadn't the slightest expectation that it would achieve anything... I, dreading an upcoming event which had so far never been skipped once scheduled, repeated a few lines in my head. Mostly along the lines of: "I will not have to X today. This is imperative."

Again, I didn't really say this with conviction, so there isn't much of a "YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE!" factor. Having repeated the line several times over the day, the time came for the 'event.' (Omitted so that it might be a bit clearer.) After getting prepared, the organizer walked out of his office and shouted that the event was canceled, for reasons never explained. Needless to say (yet still said), I was surprised.

I dismissed it partially as coincidence. Still, a bit of me was a bit shaken. The next week, around the time the event was to be, the same occurred. Canceled for reasons totally unrelated to the first.

Every time I have used this, the event was canceled, which by now has become a long list of reasons. Since, I have adapted the LOA, or whatever it is I may be using, to a great many areas of my life. I will admit, it has failed on occasion, though I suspect it may be attributed to my actual wording. In retrospect, what I "willed" actually worked, it seemed my actual desire is not always clear.

The thing that amazes me is that people truly believe they are disproving it by citing examples in which they tried to defy the laws of physics.

As with most of my posts, I must apologize for my rambling nature.

What I ask of everyone, is to truly try it. No halfhearted mockery of an attempt, either! If you could have just a taste of the manipulation found in LD's in real life, wouldn't you be curious?

With this post, I feel courtesy dictates I should apologize twice-over for my rambling. A thousand praises to anyone to truly read this all, I'm not sure I myself would have...

-Graysong

Is there any scientific verification for the law of attraction? Have scientists conducted studies on making money and supermodels appear? The whole idea sounds correlational at best. If you think about supermodels all the time, it is because you want supermodels. If you want supermodels, you are going to work toward supermodels. That increases your chances of getting them. But for what percentage of the population does that actually work? The same is true about money and everything else. Also, if you think about something negative all the time, there is a significant chance it is because you have reason to fear it.

I have no reason to believe there is anything more to it than that.

Great post Graysong - excellent points

Gnome and Universal Mind, I understand your skeptisism, and I don't know of any official scientific experiment conducted to attract a supermodel.

As far as I know, this field is relatively new to scientific exploration, and the most interesting experiments I've read about so far, are the ones detailed in the book "The Devine Matrix" by Gregg Braden. I've posted links earlier in this thread, to an interview with Gregg Braden - in which he mentions a couple of these.

Very basically, (for the full details, you'll need to read the book, or other documentation on the experiments) these experiments showed (amongst other things) that human emotion has a direct influence on living DNA, and that photons "rearranged themselves differently in the presence of living material. The DNA was clearly having a direct influence on the photons, as if shaping them into regular patterns through an invisable force."

If you're interested in finding out more, listen to the interview, or read the book - it's very interesting.

As Graysong mentioned, just because science hasn't discovered something yet, doesn't mean it doesn't exist lol.

Baring in mind, not that long ago, it was considered impossible to send radio waves through the ether. It was also pooh-poohed and ridiculed, and there were many people who argued that there was no scientific evidence that it was possible.

At various points throughout history there has been "no scientific evidence" that humans could fly, that the earth was a globe (sorry to bring that up again, but it's such a perfect example because of the viscious debate around the subject involving "no scientific evidence"), that gravity is a law, that the earth moves around the sun.... and so on.

Now, I understand that some people do prefer to wait for scientific evidence before accepting something - but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist until there's scientific evidence for it lol. And if everyone refused to believe or accept something until there was scientific evidence for it, I think humanity may be a little less developed that it is now.

Despite how far science and technology has come, I doubt it's reached its all-time peak. I'm pretty certain there are an infinite number of things science does not know about - and there are probably at least a few things that much of the scientific community may even be mistaken about.

It has happened before, where science has assumed that because something couldn't be proven, that it didn't exist .... and then a few years later, with the development of equipment and methods and through other discoveries, they were able to conduct experiments which then proved the existance of what they had claimed did not exist lol.

Not long ago, there was no scientific evidence that there was a smaller particle than the atom. And there were certainly many people - scientists and of course, lay people - who insisted there was no way there was a particle smaller than the atom. The atom was definitely the smallest particle - science had discovered that it was the smallest particle and so it was.

Then... science advanced, they developed more powerful equipment, and .... then we heard about the photon.

Interestingly, before Newton, the law of inertia wasn't recognised as a law either. Does that mean it wasn't a law until it was recognised as one? lol.

So, my view is that if it works for me (and it does), I'll use it, since I don't feel the need to wait until Science reaches the point where they can "prove" it - I'm okay to go ahead and use it myself in the meantime.

Love and Light and Freedom xxx

Sorry about the big post, my delay.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

I hope this has been a learning experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHvMrf7_f80

Good video. But perhaps you should think about what he really means. "By being aware of the limitations of perception, we can break free of it." he says.

Yes we can break free from limitations, that's just changing the way we think. But no, we will not be able to rid our perception altogether. And not all of us are bound by hate, some of us are bound by love.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

My main beef with this tripe is the whole "Law" thing. They present this "Law" as a scientific fact, something which is a part of the physical universe.

It's not.

There is no law of attraction.

You only decide this through your own distractions.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

A complete lack of experimental evidence or solid scientific backing.

We know very, very, very little about quantum mechanics (if anything, really), and I will not take an interview with some random dude as proof of anything.

Do the research yourself, and expand your mind - go and sit out in the middle of a forest, away from any other people, and use this 'law' to attract a BMW. Go ahead.

You don't get it. It is a Law because it is always right. Even now. Science might be able to prove this when time-machines are invented, but who cares about proof if we already have it - it already works?

Imagine you're standing in a desert, and you see a swimming pool. You don't really care about the scientific evidence of it, because you already know it's there and would just like to swim in it.

And I don't need to wonder why you would pick such a difficult task: "go and sit out in the middle of a forest, away from any other people, and use this 'law' to attract a BMW. Go ahead." You are saying that because it's an unlikely event. An unlikely event. Unlikely - not impossible. I could go and do that, with my own mind, and I may get one. But I should not ignore the fact that there is no room for one in the forest. If I tried, I could make room. Then, who knows, a BMW might come driving by with a bunch of crazed tourists sitting inside!

Consider all your thoughts, direct them, and the rest will manifest for you.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

So subjectively sad, if you ask me.

... as we all do with this contradictory universe.

So subjectively delightful, if you ask me. "...as we all do with this contradictory universe."

Originally Posted by Oneironaut_Jeff777

Before you or any others ridicule, discredit and even (pointlessly) try to debunk the law of attraction, do you even UNDERSTAND it? Have you tried attracting something to you (not ignorantly trying to attract, i.e. BMW in woods) at all? I can't say anything bad about Buddhism because I don't fully understand it, don't know much about it, but am intrigued by enough to try to understand it without ridiculing it while at the same time keep my mouth shut about what I don't know.

Good points, that's exactly it!

Originally Posted by SolSkye

...What goes up, must come down

That's the Law of Gravity. If you want to disprove that try waiting for something to hit the ground in outer space.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

If this were truly a Law, then it would never be wrong.

You keep questioning my assertion that there is no Law of Attraction. Well, I know it's wikipedia, but look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_science

It is a Law because it is always right. Even now.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

So what would happen if you threw a brick up into the air above your head, looked up at it and thought the most pleasant, positive thoughts you possibly could? Would it be any less painful when the LAW of gravity brought it crashing down into your face?

So how does this prove your point? It doesn't, it is the same situation here, your mindset brings forth what you believe will occur and so it does. If you truely believed you'd feel less pain, it will be less painfull. And passing that idea, you may not be thinking of the brick, and so it may not even land on you anyway. Somebody might catch it, thinking you were an idiot.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

Well, considering every molecule of who and what you are, is in essence broken down to a proton (+) and a neutron (-) randomly dancing and flitting about enjoying themselves and the space between. It would be beyond silly to think yourself more positive than negative. You are always an equal amount of both positive and negative.

Sorry, don't go there. Protons, positive yes. Neutrons, Neutral! Electrons, negative. Quantum physics breaks these particles up many many times and still introduce new ones.

To say we are all equal in charge is a massive statement. That is like me saying there is as much women in the world as men (even that is an understatement). But I need to count them, but how? Well statistics. And how wrong are they?

Originally Posted by SolSkye

I do agree that one's mentality has alot to do with one's success in practical terms, but to what end? What subjectively determines success? Living the american dream? Materialism? As I gain age and experience, I realize and accept myself for who and what I actually am,

Some people claim that this happens with age anyway. So please explain, what does it really mean? Knowing your "good and bad sides"?

Originally Posted by SolSkye

what will you do when the ability to distract yourself is over, and it's only you? What will you do then? Just a thought.

What are you saying, like what is there to do??

Woops, made me a typo. I went ahead and fixed it, though.

Considering, our body makeup is 70% water all you need to do is find the breakdown for water and that's the majority of what we are.

Each atom has one valance electron and a nucleus with one proton


In the next figure one oxygen atom is sharing electrons with two hydrogen atoms.


Considering the blue dots are electrons if you want to play a simple numbers game we are actually more negative than positive. However, the size of the electrons are smaller and weaker in charge than the protons so that's why it takes more of them to remain balanced and in their state and shape. Don't think that means positive wins out in the end... Any way you look at it, there is still an equal amount of negative to maintain the shape of the positive and vice versa...they cancel each other out and remain balanced...with an affinity to neither charge.

And, that, as I've said many times before, is 'happiness'...
(+ - = - +) <---(Balance; Yin-Yang)


...So again, we are an equal amount of negative and positive elements forged together in harmonic dissonance. I'm not going out on a limb on that one...that's just the way it is. Accept it, or Deny it. Love it, or Hate it...or just BE...

Originally Posted by SolSkye

However, the size of the electrons are smaller and weaker in charge than the protons so that's why it takes more of them to remain balanced and in their state and shape.

WHAT?!?!?

And worse, are you implying that electrical charge has something to do with 'positive' and 'negative' thoughts?!

Originally Posted by SolSkye

And I don't need to wonder why you would pick such a difficult task: "go and sit out in the middle of a forest, away from any other people, and use this 'law' to attract a BMW. Go ahead." You are saying that because it's an unlikely event. An unlikely event. Unlikely - not impossible.

If it's a law, it's not unlikely. It's going to happen, period. So quit talking about it, and go do it already.

"The Secret" is a big fat scam



heres a funny lil thing to read http://www.kevinhogan.com/the-real-secret.htm

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

"The Secret" is a big fat scam



heres a funny lil thing to read http://www.kevinhogan.com/the-real-secret.htm

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's "big fat scam." I read that link you provided above (at least 85&#37; of it) and it's very good information. I have a book by Kevin Hogan called "Covert Persuasion", so I can understand a bit about where he's coming from. I agree, you can't just think of something, visualize it, feel good about it and have it miraculously fall into your lap...that's ludicrous. I do however believe that action and vision (visualization) work hand in hand. They are co-laborers. But what's just as valuable? Competence. You have to have a model that's going to take you from point A to point B. What's more...a proven model, or prepare to go through trial and error and if you're persistent..."you'll fail your way to the top." Take financial success for example (or at least my definition of it)...if you're an entrepreneur starting from "point A", vision is just the beginning...you'll need a model, you'll need to have competence or become competent in your endeavour...THEN take action on what you have put together. It will make the journey so much more worthwhile if you have a positive/optimistic mindset so that you're more flexible and things will run smoother. Metaphorically speaking, once all the bullets are loaded in the barrel, aim at your target and pull the trigger. I firmly believe in the Law of Attraction, but I also believe they left out a huge chunk of what else is required. However what they said, I do support.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

WHAT?!?!?

And worse, are you implying that electrical charge has something to do with 'positive' and 'negative' thoughts?!



If it's a law, it's not unlikely. It's going to happen, period. So quit talking about it, and go do it already.

Ummm, if you actually read what I said, I said everything around us including ourselves remain in a constant state of balance so that is what we should strive to remain in ourselves. Never with an affinity to either side. But rather, enjoying the space between. (Un)Fortunately?, the human condition has us in this constant struggle with accepting inner and outer balance, and most choose to reach for an impossible absolution, instead. When the inherent and practical truths surrounding us at all times are showing us the ridiculousness of striving to reach for one or the other. Both will always be in equal numbers. Acceptance of that is where you free yourself.

You are still 15, right? Without trying to come across condescending, you still have a lot more to experience before you can say one thing or the other about life. You are still in grade school and have to go through the ringer and see many a thing before you reach enough perspective to have substance to add to the conversation. While, it's a good policy to question everything around you, blindly believing in only science as the one true measure of everything has it's own limitations. It's job is and always has been a quantitative one...never qualitative...

How do you measure the individual experiences of someone's life in a qualitative way? Impossible.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

Ummm, if you actually read what I said, I said everything around us including ourselves remain in a constant state of balance so that is what we should strive to remain in ourselves.

Do you know of the sodium potassium pump? I'm pretty sure that every single cell in our body has some, and they work constantly, 24/7, to shuttle Sodium and Potassium across the membranes of our cells. They don't do this to keep equilibrium - they do it to maintain a concentration gradient. It's ludicrous to say that everything remains in a 'state of balance', because nature is in constant flux. Even if things around us did remain in equilibrium, that would not in any way relate to 'moral' equilibrium, or the types of thoughts we think. The 'positive' and 'negative' thoughts are human constructs - there's nothing 'negative' about thinking about killing someone, physiologically speaking.

*edit* by the way, my WHAT!?? was aimed at your statement about electrons having less charge than protons - both have a charge of roughly 1.602 x 10^-19 Coulombs; they are equal and opposite.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

You are still 15, right? Without trying to come across condescending, you still have a lot more to experience before you can say one thing or the other about life. You are still in grade school and have to go through the ringer and see many a thing before you reach enough perspective to have substance to add to the conversation.

You are correct that my experience is limited, but without being pompous, I'll have you know that I will be attending college next year (at sixteen, and hopefully an ivy league). I may not know much about the world, but please don't discount my input as 'substanceless' solely because of my age.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

While, it's a good policy to question everything around you, blindly believing in only science as the one true measure of everything has it's own limitations. It's job is and always has been a quantitative one...never qualitative...

How do you measure the individual experiences of someone's life in a qualitative way? Impossible.

One does not 'blindly believe in science'. Science is the only way we can gather knowledge - if you come up with any others, please tell me and I'll alert the nobel committee. Science is not at all limited to quantitative studies. Qualitative things have a neuronal basis, and they can be studied using quantitative means - one can be reached through the use of the other.

I'd be lying if I thought myself an expert on science, or what I was saying to be completely infallible. I honestly should've put more research behind the post but what I have intuitively found to be true is we are an equal amount of both.

Congrats, on going to university early. My point is, Science is limited in what it can do. It can continually gather new quantitative knowledge and information but the qualitative aspect will always fall under subjective bias' of the subject, and the person collecting the results. Rendering the results useless. You can have no control group because as soon as a human leaves the womb their subjective experience begins making their experiences and perceptions entirely unique from the next subject. Do you see what I mean?

Originally Posted by SolSkye

My point is, Science is limited in what it can do. It can continually gather new quantitative knowledge and information but the qualitative aspect will always fall under subjective bias' of the subject, and the person collecting the results. Rendering the results useless.

You're right that science will never be perfect - at the most basic level, it is based entirely on the way humans perceive the world. However, it's certainly not useless - if carried out properly, you can account for the variations in subjectivity of each individual human and end up with a model which is generally useful in the subjective frame of reference of all humans.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

You can have no control group because as soon as a human leaves the womb their subjective experience begins making their experiences and perceptions entirely unique from the next subject. Do you see what I mean?

Neurologically speaking, we should still be able to quantify their subjective experiences. If everything we perceive and experience stems from our physical bodies, then studying our physical bodies should allow us to directly examine these scientifically.