Thread: Fate

Your argumentation is flawless, I salute you. o.o

Originally Posted by dropout14

Some people do not believe in it but really there is only one way things will end, you can not change it
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Wow, a Whole sentence this time? You were so close, but you forgot the point at the end

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The real question is: is there free will. If not, in a way you could calculate everything that is going to happen. Point is, you need a computer so good it can never be made.

If there is free will... well you can really know. In a way we will still do the same things in the future, nothing can be changed about that really. But that doesn't mean you can look into the future.

I believe they everything happens for a reason but we have a will of are own

Probably, some things happen for a reason, but the way they go along cannot be strictly specified, can it?

Originally Posted by Neruo

Wow, a Whole sentence this time? You were so close, but you forgot the point at the end

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The real question is: is there free will. If not, in a way you could calculate everything that is going to happen. Point is, you need a computer so good it can never be made.

If there is free will... well you can really know. In a way we will still do the same things in the future, nothing can be changed about that really. But that doesn't mean you can look into the future.
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I think even if there is free will you could still calculate everything that is going to happen. Just like in a game of chess, a really good player will work out the possible consequences of every single possible choice he has (OK maybe not ALL but a lot). Sure, you wouldn't know which exact one would happen but you'd know all the possibilities.

Originally Posted by Jess

I think even if there is free will you could still calculate everything that is going to happen. Just like in a game of chess, a really good player will work out the possible consequences of every single possible choice he has (OK maybe not ALL but a lot). Sure, you wouldn't know which exact one would happen but you'd know all the possibilities.
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In chess there are rules one must strictly obey. And one knows the rules.
In life one doesn't know the rules, if there are any at all...

Yeah true, its just supposed to be analogy, nothing can compare to life.

*points to the first line of sig*

Basically what ever happens will happen.

[EDIT] I was going to make a topic like this, perhaps it is fate [EDIT]

quantum mechanics the world is not govern by classical physics. in a classical world their would be fate but in a quantum world their is no fate just your observation collasping reality to classical physics. schrodinger cat. you need to have a basic understanding of quantum physics/modern physics to truly understand the universe.

this is a good point to take into consideration with free will.

[edit] are we more then just large chemicle reactions?

Originally Posted by Jess

I think even if there is free will you could still calculate everything that is going to happen. Just like in a game of chess, a really good player will work out the possible consequences of every single possible choice he has (OK maybe not ALL but a lot). Sure, you wouldn't know which exact one would happen but you'd know all the possibilities.
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Indeed, in a way, how do you define free will? Because it doesn't really matter or there is free will or not, in both cases it could be prodicted...

Unless the 'free will' is some sort of randomised factor outside our demension. Unlikely.

However if you define free will on the scale of 'making your own desisions', then it's certain we have free will. Retards will do what they want no matter their upbringing... however, actually that makes retards more free then I and 'normal' people, because I am way more influenced by my parents and such.

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And on fate: I believe in the power of the human mind to totally ignore truths and facts just for the sake of keeping a though planted in you as a child.

Originally Posted by dropout14

Some people do not believe in it but really there is only one way things will end, you can not change it
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If you cannot show what happens after death, how can you say it is an ending without being dogmatic?

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i believe that there is a such thing as fate, but the choices that you make can overide fate, but to know that we must first know if you were fated to make that decision...

I am a realist and a mild optimist, i believe that i am in control of my life and that life WILL alter itself according to my changes, if it was fate for me to take those changes then so be it...

But hear this, who creates our fates, do we create them for ourselves... Is it possible... i think that we create them for ourselves, and we also created the very concept of fate, and we have made ourselves believe that there is an otherworldly force which determines our lives... to reassure us...

I am not refering to God...because this view also works with the christian view...if there is a heaven and hell, then the choices in life must lead our souls there, so if our lives were predetermined by something such as God, so what is the point of us being alive if our lives (and our afterlives) were predetermined before we were even born...

I don't think there is any such thing as free will.

Someone said once (can't remember who) that if you knew the locations, accelerations and trajectories of all the particles in the universe at any one time, you could predict the future indefinitely. Which I am inclined to agree with.

However quantum theory says that for every 'decision' we make, alternate realities are created like forks in a road. This would depend on an element of randomness in the way our brains work, though.

So to me the whole debate of free will, fate, destiny and all that, totally depends on whether our thought process is essentially random, which would determine whether our actions are predetermined or not.

The thing with fate is, you'll never find out if certain things are meant to happen. At the end of the day, what ever happens will happen.

You can't choose what will happen to you but you can decide what to do in the time that is given.

Originally Posted by NeAvO

You can't choose what will happen to you but you can decide what to do in the time that is given.[/b]

That sounds like a Gandalf quote! me likes

Well LOTR was on the other day so...

You know I was trying to sound smart...by umm copying it

Well spotted though

I have never truly udnerstood this argument of fate
I had a friend, his cousin fell onto the drugs path
he owed an unbeliavbley large amount of money with no way of paying it
his body was found strung up to a tree with 23 stab wounds

You expect me to believe that if he had never tried a single drug, if he had chose to say no, when first offered that he would have till ended up bieng stabbed
and of course we ahve free will, i have an exam at 1.30 i can go to it
i can also choose not to
indefintely this will affect my "fate"

I believe in karma
but not fate written in stone
That itslef would b a very depressing thing
that no matter waht I did i could not change my destiny.

Imran

Originally Posted by imran_p

I believe in karma
but not fate written in stone
That itslef would b a very depressing thing
that no matter waht I did i could not change my destiny.

Imran
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That would be a really senseless. just like some robots on a assembly line...

Originally Posted by Rav1

That would be a really senseless. just like some robots on a assembly line...
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Do you agree with him or not? I do somewhat: Having a 'fixed fate' (would it exist), would be totally depressing and it would suck.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Do you agree with him or not? I do somewhat: Having a 'fixed fate' (would it exist), would be totally depressing and it would suck.
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I agree about Karma. The consequences of our acting should be taken into consideration. But fate...? I don't think so. But I think each of us has the task to accomplish in this life...for the general good of the world.

You expect me to believe that if he had never tried a single drug, if he had chose to say no, when first offered that he would have till ended up bieng stabbed
and of course we ahve free will, i have an exam at 1.30 i can go to it
i can also choose not to
indefintely this will affect my "fate" [/b]

yes but that just a illusion of choice since at the end you will always pick one and that will be determined by environment and the chemicals in your brain which have no choice. your choice is a illusion their is one definate past and future that is determined fate argue by newton when he said you could calculate in a big computer the path of every atom at a instant if you knew their position, mass and speed the same applies for human it just the atoms make up a illusion of consciousness and choice. just look at it backward if you here now their only one path your before self could have tooken to get here like say if you sitting here typing on this computer saying becomingagodo your wrong at the end of the day say a week ago you had the choice to commit sucide your always going to say no or you would have been dead and cant write it fate now that your proberly reading this because to get here you have no choice. well unless your religious or spritual but that means you have to reject newton and the law of physics.

Originally Posted by Rav1

I agree about Karma. The consequences of our acting should be taken into consideration. But fate...? I don't think so. But I think each of us has the task to accomplish in this life...for the general good of the world.
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Like hitler?

Bit of a naive point of view. Do you believe in evolution? People don't have a goal higher then animals, and animals roll in shit all day.

All I can say really is then that life is one big injustice if we follow your idea of fate
what right do we have to imprison a murderer?
He was destined to murder
He could not cotnrol his actions
He had no influence
With this idea of absolute fate and destiny we destroy all morals.
No man is guilty of a crime
Its not his fault

I follow your thinking and I end up with this conclusion
Hitler was not an evil man, Hitler was an unlucky man
Luther King was not a great man, Luther King was a lucky man (discounting his assasination)

King was lucky, he drew a good card - he was destined to be remebered as great
Hitler - the opposite applies

Imran