Thread: Dream and Fantasy Morals

Unfortunately, most (some would say all) decisions are not made consciously. They are made based on a series of pre-established patterns developed by our culture, our society, our family life, and so on. The brain chooses these patterns and we react to situations based on which pattern seems to fit any given situation. We largely do this entirely unconsciously, without even being aware of what we are doing. If this seems a bit far out, simple mental exercises can be done to demonstrate the truth of this to the self.

If one commits a crime in a non-lucid dream, they are still committing the crime. They are simply doing it based on a new (and fantastic) context, and without societal repercussion. In this context, certain barriers are removed, new plot lines are constructed, and we react based on them. This is the essence of non-lucidity and is fundamentally how the majority of people live their lives, both awake and asleep. This sort of goes back to the argument as to whether or not the non-lucid you is the "real" you. Placing aside the question of what the "real" you even means, lucid dreaming makes it fairly clear that the mind at work in a dream is the mind at work in waking life, merely with different context. I think one of the benefits of lucid dreaming is that it allows us to remember ourselves in the dream context, to take advantage of working with the mind at a much deeper level than is possible during waking life, and possibly to find some benefit outside of escapism, which is essentially not escaping at all, but continuing to engage in the same thought patterns that leave us frustrated in waking life. Punching dream boss neither eliminates the problem of waking life boss, nor does it make it easier to deal with waking life boss. In a sense, it's just a further avoidance of the problem. If we teach ourselves in dream that dream boss is not really the problem, and rather dream me needs to ascertain some of the thought patterns that are leading to wanting to punch dream boss, then that will be much more productive--for waking life and the dream.

Concerning the fact that you've never heard of lucid dreaming being linked to a crime, I think the relatively small number of dedicated lucid dreamers, coupled with the fact that lucid dreaming is still a fringe area and not one likely to be taken seriously at all by anyone except proponents and detractors (who are also going to be few in number) I don't find it surprising at all. There have been links observed between observing violent media and committing acts of violence. I think any neural connections made in the dream state are going to as powerful as those formed in waking life, especially if it is "us" committing the act of violence. But, I'm not really trying to argue that point. What I am suggesting is that lucid dreaming could be used in more beneficial and positive ways, but rarely is in the west.

How can perfection be overrated if we've never experienced it?

Punching dream boss neither eliminates the problem of waking life boss

Agreed

nor does it make it easier to deal with waking life boss. In a sense, it's just a further avoidance of the problem. If we teach ourselves in dream that dream boss is not really the problem, and rather dream me needs to ascertain some of the thought patterns that are leading to wanting to punch dream boss, then that will be much more productive--for waking life and the dream.

I think it can, in some way, help. Taking out a bit of anger in a fantasy can stop you from exploding in real life, which can then give you more time to actually seek help. Maybe not the best solution, but it can sometimes be effective. The last part of this, I agree with in principle, but it easily can be seen as victim blaming. If we change the boss into being a bully, then a desire to punch him, while I'd caution against it, seems understandable. Not every problem can be solved simply through your own mind and used improperly this can lead to becoming a pacifistic doormat, conditined to abuse.

There have been links observed between observing violent media and committing acts of violence.

There have also been studies supporting my catharsis view, that suggest that fantasy violence mat have some beneficial purposes. I'll link you a few, if you're interested.

I think any neural connections made in the dream state are going to as powerful as those formed in waking life, especially if it is "us" committing the act of violence.

The added context of fantasy might be just as powerful, though. Also, why do you think this? Looking at your example of someone lashing out at rage I'd imagine they experience a lapse in lucidity. In this case, they wouldn't quite be...."them".

But, I'm not really trying to argue that point. What I am suggesting is that lucid dreaming could be used in more beneficial and positive ways, but rarely is in the west.

Agree, although it seems a bit presumptuous to suggest the large distinction between easterners and westerners. I imagine many easterners "waste" their lucidity on escapism, as well.

How can perfection be overrated if we've never experienced it?

How can we consider worth attaining if we don't the first thing about it? Going on to actually answer your question, I find myself wondering what we should do once we achieve perfection? Seems like a full stop to me. Then again, I don't believe perfection exists in any meaningful sense to begin with nor do I think that, even if it did, we could attain it, no matter how much effort, natural talent and time we have. Self-improve by all means, but don't expect an end point. As a final thought, how do you know that your current method has a remote chance of even reaching perfection? Maybe we need a full range of experiences to achieve perfection and that could involve going lower before we go higher.