Thread: Free Speech for all?

[sarcasm]Yeah you're right, free speach is dead. You can't even preach black people are less than human anymore [/sarcasm]

(please note, that was heavy sarcasm)

But seriously, I notice you put speech marks around "Anti-Hate" and "prejudice". How is calling a person perverted and telling them they'll burn for eternity for his/her sexual orientation any less prejudiced than racism.

Ominous legislation now before Congress contains a hidden agenda that could make criminals of Christians. [/b]

This legislation is not targetted at christians, it is targeted at bigots. Why should christians who happen to be bigots have special consideration?

Just because some (by no means all) christians refuse to let go of a single line in leviticus they do not have a special liscence for prejudice. The same christians ignore the majority of the archaic (and uproariously funny in some instances) laws from the same book.

Prejudice against homosexuals on the basis of their sexual preference is a hate-crime, and should be punished as harshly as any other. Go sweden!

isn't this what always happens with a religious topic? Differences of opinions...
Are these genuine laws that are passed? Because if they are, haven't the bigwigs forgotten about the human rights act?
Freedom of speech is fine, provided its not with intent to harm, surely.
They'll be saying i can't write in my diary next...

Spoon (as usual) has pretty much covered my thoughts in regards to the free speech/hate crime aspect, but I just want to take this opportunity to address something that consistently grates my nerves...dramatic conservative christians, who cry religious persecution on the slightest of whims.

Awaken wrote:

Ominous legislation now before Congress contains a hidden agenda that could make criminals of Christians. [/b]

Is Christianity and those who practice it under attack? Absolutely NOT.

This is a just another example of christian zealots playing the reverse discrimination ploy. Their reasoning is that since they can't impose their own value system on society, they are being persecuted.

Another example of this is school prayer. The courts have interpreted the law to mean that school prayer is not appropriate in a government school. Some Christians feel that this constitutes persecution. Since they can't have a Christian government (although some could argue that we already do), they feel persecuted.

Ominous legislation now before Congress contains a hidden agenda that could make criminals of Christians.[/b]

I wouldn't sweat it Rev., the Christian right in America own the Republican party, which in turn controls most of Congress.

You want to discuss ominous legislation, then lets talk about such atrocities as the Patriot Act, H.R. 534 and the legislation that would allow the federal govt. to intervene on a citizen's private matters concerning the life & death of a loved one (eg. the T. Schiavo case).

Awaken, I read your anti-government post. Police are on their way!

From what I understand this law was passed to hold accountable those that preach hate, provoke violence or unjustly demoralise people. True Christians do none of the above, so I see no problem with it.

Those that do 'preach hate' (eh don't really like that description, reminds me of too many Bush speeches) should be punished, whether they hide behind Christianity or not.

The United States was founded on freedom of speech, but using speech to incite crime or to use falsehoods to slander people have been considered exceptions for a very long time. Merely preaching hate should not be illegal. This country was formed so people could disagree with and speak out against the government, even hatefully, just not to induce violence and other lawlessness.

Saying, "I hate the government! It sucks!" is one thing, and saying, "Everybody attack people and overthrow the government! Let's go!" is another.

If expressing hate becomes illegal, then the Democrats aren't going to have any more voters because they will all be in jail. Expressing hate against Bush has become as much of a fad as hoolahoops were in the 1950's.

It is a contrary understanding that those who speak against “divergent behavior” are “not” speaking against the individual, but against the behavior. For those who are so quick to judge the speech without analyzing the content of that speech, are in fact those who are judging the “people,” and not their behavior.

The Rev.

It is a contrary understanding that those who speak against “divergent behavior” are “not” speaking against the individual, but against the behavior. [/b]

So racism is all right as long as you hate allll the black people equally, across the board?

Labelling the \"behaviour\" of homosexuals as perverse is just as much bigotry as labelling an individiual homosexual perverse.

For those who are so quick to judge the speech without analyzing the content of that speech, are in fact those who are judging the “people,” and not their behavior. [/b]

How did anyone's post fail to analyse the content of your rant? Is there some point we all missed?

Anyways, this post was really obscure - apologies if I misinterpreted it.

-spoon

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
For those who are so quick to judge the speech without analyzing the content of that speech, are in fact those who are judging the “people,” and not their behavior.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

By "those" do you mean people or behavior? Are you saying nice things about "those"?

Hate the Sin, not the Sinner!

ONOES!! UNDER THIS LAW WE CAN'T MAKE HORRIBLE ATACKS AT PEOPLE WHO BELIVE SOMTHING OTHER THAN WHAT WE DO! WHAT AN OUTRAGE!!!! Grow up.

The Perv.

This is not a hate crime action, its a limitation of free speech. "The pastor was preaching to his congregation not in a public domain"...

Still it's preaching hate. If I were to hold a weekly meeting where I was going on about how all Christians are evil and that Dave the holy fish hates them, I'm sure you'd be outraged.

"Outrage" only comes from those who are uninformed, homosexuality is not "a person" but a behavior.

And because some old book implies that it's wrong makes it pretty much the worst thing in the universe?

Just because something is stupid or wrong doesnt mean it should be illegal.

\"Outrage\" only comes from those who are uninformed, homosexuality is not \"a person\" but a behavior. [/b]

Homosexuality is a person's sexual orientation. Calling it a behaviour in an attempt to depersonalise it doesn't change this fact. Homosexuality implies homosexual people.

Hate the Sin, not the Sinner![/b]

Calling a persons sexual orientation a sin is bigotry. Want to put foward some sort of argument as to why you think it is acceptable?

This is not a hate crime action, its a limitation of free speech. \"The pastor was preaching to his congregation not in a public domain\"... [/b]

It is a hate crime action because he was preaching a hate crime. Would racism be tolerated in a pastoral environment?

Originally posted by spoon

\"Outrage\" only comes from those who are uninformed, homosexuality is not \"a person\" but a behavior.

Homosexuality is a person's sexual orientation. Calling it a behaviour in an attempt to depersonalise it doesn't change this fact. Homosexuality implies homosexual people.

Hate the Sin, not the Sinner![/b]

Calling a persons sexual orientation a sin is bigotry. Want to put foward some sort of argument as to why you think it is acceptable?

This is not a hate crime action, its a limitation of free speech. \"The pastor was preaching to his congregation not in a public domain\"... [/b]

It is a hate crime action because he was preaching a hate crime. Would racism be tolerated in a pastoral environment?[/b]

You go, spoon! Homosexuality, heterosexuality, they both sexualities, and they're as natural as can be. Hey Rev, you do know that the ol' Bible also condemns het sex as well? Or did you sorta skim over those parts?

Originally posted by Muhjah

You go, spoon! Homosexuality, heterosexuality, they both sexualities, and they're as natural as can be. Hey Rev, you do know that the ol' Bible also condemns het sex as well? Or did you sorta skim over those parts?

Do you have any scriptures to back that up? Because I've never seen that myself.
Premarital sex, and general perversions, sure. Plain het sex.... nope.

The Bible condemns premarital heterosexual sex, but the Christian Right does not condemn premarital heterosexual sex anywhere near as much as they condemn homosexual sex. If the characters on Days of Our Lives were all gay, Pat Robertson and the gang would be having miilion man marches against it.

Someone remind me where you have a right to incite to riot? I thought that was pretty well-documented against such.

If you preach anti-something and the sheeple take that to mean that they should then go hunt down that _something_ and slaughter it - you're probably up for depraved indifference.

I don't really think we need any NEW legislation. Things are pretty well covered.

What we need is enforcement.

“Please let me state this as clearly and concisely as I can, “It Is the Behavior of the Individual that is wrong, and not the person which is condemned. All sexual behavior is a “Learned Behavior” and not a result of design of the individual.

The Rev.

Just as if I where to (hypothetically) molest children, and teach it to a group of like-minded molesters, would you judge me as a person for my character (not knowing) of my behavior, or would you accept me for who you think I am, If I did not disclose that information?

The Gay life-style is the opposite , they (forces their sexuality) upon you with prejudges! I am forced to see them as (Gay) first, beyond everything else. Before given the opportunity to know them as who they are, and not what they do!

The Rev.

Originally posted by i
Calling a persons sexual orientation a sin is bigotry. Want to put foward some sort of argument as to why you think it is acceptable?

Just as if I where to (hypothetically) molest children, and teach it to a group of like-minded molesters, would you judge me as a person for my character (not knowing) of my behavior, or would you accept me for who you think I am, If I did not disclose that information?

The Gay life-style is the opposite , they (forces their sexuality) upon you with prejudges! I am forced to see them as (Gay) first, beyond everything else. Before given the opportunity to know them as who they are, and not what they do! [/b]

Noone is forcing you to be gay. You are being forced to keep irrational hatred of homosexuality to yourself.

And that analogy made no sense (as well as being an underhanded attempt at linking gays to molesters?). But anyway, if homosexuals had to be taught to be homosexual, do you think there would be any in america where views such as yours are apallingly common? If it as simple as learnin 'em right an' proper like, then there would be no homosexuals.

You've still put no argument foward as to why you think homosexuality is a perversion.