Thread: Truth vs. Happiness

Imagine that you could choose to step into a machine which would simulate a perfect life for you until you die. You would live in this virtual reality for the rest of your life, with most of your desires being fulfilled. It wouldn't be a boring life; it would be whatever your idea of a perfect life is. You know that if you stepped into the machine, while in the virtual world, you would believe that everything that was happening was real. Would you do it?

Another, similar question. You could spend a period of time, a month or a year, living the perfect life, and it would all be real. You might find love, happiness, have the best sex of your life, etc. But you know that, if you choose to do this, you'll forget it all afterward. Would you still do it?

With situations or similar ones in mind, do you think you prefer to be happy or to know the truth? Would you willingly delude yourself into believing in something you 'know' on some level isn't true if you knew the belief would bring you substantial happiness?

Cheesy but true.

Whether it's life or "fake" life, your brain still perceives it the same way. The only thing that would keep me from escaping in some happiness machine would be leaving back all my loved ones.

If you're a solipsist and believe that your mind is the only thing that exists, then yes, what that Matrix clip says is true.
But real, to me, is not defined by what I'm perceiving. What I'm perceiving is only real if my senses attain their information from a real, objective world that exists outside of me.

I understand the philosophical problem. It's true that there is no perceivable difference between the external world really being there and not, and so it's tempting to say that whether the world is really there or not is irrelevant. But for me, there's a goodness in 'truth'. I want my beliefs to be based on reality. I don't think I even need a justification for that desire. I just have it.

If I found out now that my life until now hasn't been real, I would consider my past to be valueless. And if I lived my entire life under the impression that it was real, when in fact it was a virtual reality simulation, I would not have really been living, even though I thought I was. The fact that I place value on events in my life is dependent on those events being real, being based in the outside world. So I could never willingly step into a machine that would simulate a false world for me, even if my perception knows no difference.

This is something I've been thinking about for a while, and my thoughts are still not completely clear on it. Specifically, the "why does truth matter?" question has been bothering me for a long time.

http://www.dreamviews.com/f22/experi...-value-105321/

Originally Posted by Xei

http://www.dreamviews.com/f22/experi...-value-105321/

That thread was poop.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

That thread was poop.

The OP said exactly the same thing. You only have yourselves to blame.

I'd be more likely to do it if I knew it wasn't real. If you thought it was real you'd have to leave this life behind, and despite all it's imperfections this life is pretty fucking amazing.

I think that substantial happiness comes from real things so I would choose this life, the truth. I've spent a periods of my life depressed and smoking lot's of weed to counter the facts. It kind of works in a way, at the time, but you always come back to reality in the end(even when doing this it was always real things that brought substantial happiness, drugs were just a way for me to get out of my mindset, to let go, so I could focus on the moment at hand).

As to the second question I would do that. It would be like getting an extra month of life from a different perspective with no downside. If you can't remember it than it wouldn't make this life seem any worse in comparison.

Maybe it matters because without it we can't relate to each other, we are completely alone. Without it everything is baseless and insignificant. I dunno, just a thought.

I would not do it. I have a great fear of "forgetting" my life (I've had the fear for as long as I can remember). So, option 2 is not in the least bit appealing.
I could see myself becoming depressed, apathetic etc, if I spent any amount of time, living the "perfect life" and then having to leave it.
When I was a very young teen I had ridiculously repetitive dreams of having given birth to triplets: 2 girls and a boy. It went on for years, in real life. I loved those babies and as time passed in real life, it passed in the dream as well (though not at the same speed). I raised the babies, played with them, nurtured and guided them until they were older children. I always woke up greatly grieved because I had to say goodbye to them- that they weren't real.
When I was about 14 years old, I wrote a novella about them (took a year to write). By the time I was 16, I was no longer dreaming of them.

I'm 36 years old, but I still feel a tinge of sadness when I think back to that time. They were such a huge part of my life and now I don't even remember their names.

Truth, for me, is always better than fiction when it comes to life.

I feel that we are put on this life to see the truth. You have to ask yourself are you willing to lie to and sacrifice the truth to be happy. Here is an example if your boss was murdering kittens everyday after work and you had the choice to confront him about it and lose your job or take a pill that would make you forget you ever knew he killed kittens would you? Yes a little ridiculous I know. Now that you have entered this false reality, you have no ability change the world for the better.

Ignorance is bliss...

When my philosophy professor asked the class this question, if they'd choose a virtual reality simulator, only one person raised his hand. I was surprised, then, because I had thought that most people would prefer happiness over truth and that I was an exception. After that, I changed my idea of people, realizing that almost everyone would choose truth over happiness. But now, I'm surprised again. More people would choose to step into a virtual reality machine than I expected, at least on this forum.

Originally Posted by Dianeva

When my philosophy professor asked the class this question, if they'd choose a virtual reality simulator, only one person raised his hand. I was surprised, then, because I had thought that most people would prefer happiness over truth and that I was an exception. After that, I changed my idea of people, realizing that almost everyone would choose truth over happiness. But now, I'm surprised again. More people would choose to step into a virtual reality machine than I expected, at least on this forum.

Its really subject to the audience in question. You ask a class full of students that
have the idea embedded in them that truth is better even if its harsh, then you have
a forum full of lucid dreamers who practically live in virtual reality. See my point?

Originally Posted by Shadow27

Its really subject to the audience in question. You ask a class full of students that
have the idea embedded in them that truth is better even if its harsh, then you have
a forum full of lucid dreamers who practically live in virtual reality. See my point?

Yes, I see your point. I am obsessed with the idea of lucid dreaming. But the big difference for me is, while lucid dreaming, you know that what you experience isn't real, and your real life is barely distrupted. In a Matrix world, you would think it was real and be there indefinitely.

Originally Posted by Dianeva

Yes, I see your point. I am obsessed with the idea of lucid dreaming. But the big difference for me is, while lucid dreaming, you know that what you experience isn't real, and your real life is barely distrupted. In a Matrix world, you would think it was real and be there indefinitely.

true, but I think it is similar.

I would definitely choose truth in this case, but then again if a simulator like that exists, then there is no need to leave truth behind, you can accept the both of them. One reason that I would choose truth is that being delusional and finding out later on that it is not true can be devastating to a persons life.

Originally Posted by Dianeva

Imagine that you could choose to step into a machine which would simulate a perfect life for you until you die. You would live in this virtual reality for the rest of your life, with most of your desires being fulfilled. It wouldn't be a boring life; it would be whatever your idea of a perfect life is. You know that if you stepped into the machine, while in the virtual world, you would believe that everything that was happening was real. Would you do it?

Another, similar question. You could spend a period of time, a month or a year, living the perfect life, and it would all be real. You might find love, happiness, have the best sex of your life, etc. But you know that, if you choose to do this, you'll forget it all afterward. Would you still do it?

With situations or similar ones in mind, do you think you prefer to be happy or to know the truth? Would you willingly delude yourself into believing in something you 'know' on some level isn't true if you knew the belief would bring you substantial happiness?

Absolutely. I honestly would not care if it wasn't real. I would prefer the perfect life in the real
world but since that is impossible this is just as good. I really fail to see the difference. Its a
sum of experiences and in the vr case probably more beneficial experiences. So yeah I would
definitely do it without a second thought... thats why I'm an attempting Lucid Dreamer

I do have the perfect life I define and bend time and space If I want to. I make life what I want to make it not the oppisite and I don't sit here dreaming about having the perfect life when I am on that path right now to the perfect life I have forseen and no I don't have it easy. I actually have it harder than most around me. All I got to say to you is make your own destiny right now in-vision it and go out and get it. Its not that harder than you think it is. If it doesn't work then twist it and bend it until it works!

you just got to believe in your self. come on if you don't believe in your self at the end of the day who can you believe? Ask yourself this question?

I would definitely choose truth. It would be hard to do philosophy in a fake world and I love exploring THIS world. People talk about this world maybe being fake, but at least I believe that it is real. If I knew that I was in a fake world, I would find it hard to really care about anything and would only love material things. I'd turn to drugs harder than I have in this life knowing that it was all fake and that there was nobody real to be affected. I just don't see the point in passionately exploring a world that you know is fake.

Originally Posted by Drokens

If I knew that I was in a fake world, I would find it hard to really care about anything and would only love material things. I'd turn to drugs harder than I have in this life knowing that it was all fake and that there was nobody real to be affected. I just don't see the point in passionately exploring a world that you know is fake.

And if you knew that, once it started, you would believe that it was all real, and a much better more exciting life than you have now?

Originally Posted by Dianeva

And if you knew that, once it started, you would believe that it was all real, and a much better more exciting life than you have now?

I was talking as though I would know that the world was fake while I was in it. If I didn't know that the world was fake, I of coarse would be happy because it would appear no different than our own world.

I will always choose the truth over comfort. I agree with Plato, I think truth is a most sacred thing. This thread is basically similar to his allegory of the cave. I would rather be blinded by the light outside than be in the darkness of the cave.

There is no point in doing something if it is not real. There's even less point if I don't remember it. I might as well lose a month of my life for no reason. So, no, I wouldn't accept either offer.

No thanks. I don't care how good life in a virtual world will be. I'd rather live in the real world.

And if, by some chance, this life is also virtual and none of you exist, I was probably put in here against my own will. Just saying hehe.