Thread: B6: Why it Works

why cant you just cut the middle man and just take seratonin supplements?

Thats always an option of course. 5-HTP(Serotonin Supplements) are another Amino Acid like Tryptophan. However, the problem with taking Serotonin Supplements directly is that the Brain Barrier tries its best not to let external chemicals in. Using B6 and having the Tryptophan metabolized within the body is a much more effective way of getting the newly converted Serotonin to the brain for use.

Exobyte, I think you got right down to it. Thanks alot for this idea. *plans his next meal* I've never noticed much effect with B6 but you've enlightened me fairly well. I'll let you know if I have any success when I try out a bit of this.

I'm probably going to expand more on this later and make it a little more reader-friendly. I'll probably add to it as well after I've done some direct testing and experimenting myself and seeing how that goes. When I get the time and most importantly, pay check, I'm going to go to the Drug Store and try and get some more B6 Supplements, as well as Trypophan supplements and 5-HTP if I can and go from there, coming back with my results of course.

Bananas are VERY rich in Tryptophan. So if I ate Bananas all day and then took B6 before sleep would that give desirable dreaming effects?

Also you say the B6 is meant to metabolize Tryptophan into Serotonin: Conclusion: When going to bed with a higher level of Serotonin will result in vivid, clear dreams?
I can imagine so since Serotonin is the substance that makes us happy, energetic and sharpens our perception.

For that same purpose some anti-depression medications may help too. SSRI's (SSRI = Selective Serotonine Reuptake Inhibitor) probably would. It inhibits the REUPTAKE of Serotonine in the brain so that the serotonine levels stay higher. Anyone on SSRI-medication here able to testify?

Also Psychedelic Tryptamines like Psilocybin/Psilocyn in Mushrooms and DMT found in mammal's brains(ours too yes) and many plants raise Serotonine levels significantly; It would immediately explain why my Dreams are so maniacally vivid when I'm sleeping on low doses of mushrooms which I've experimented with twice lately for psychedelic enhancement of Dreamvividness.

Does chocolat also increase serotonin levels? And by what other means might I increase the level of serotonine in my brains?

Originally Posted by SKA

Bananas are VERY rich in Tryptophan. So if I ate Bananas all day and then took B6 before sleep would that give desirable dreaming effects?

If Bananas are indeed Tryptophan rich, then indeed. It should defiantly provide such effects.

Originally Posted by SKA

Also you say the B6 is meant to metabolize Tryptophan into Serotonin: Conclusion: When going to bed with a higher level of Serotonin will result in vivid, clear dreams?

Exactomundo

Originally Posted by SKA

Does chocolat also increase serotonin levels?

Yup, Chocolate is a big assistant in supplying Serotonin, as well as Tryptophan. It causes a release of Serotonin, which is why Chocolate often helps lift people's moods slightly.

You all are giving me the munchies...I must nearly every food on that list in my house, along with a jar of b6 tablets.

allright. It WOULD explain why some people report mayor success with B6 and why others, like me, have not had 1 such succesfull experience with B6. We may simply have been loaded with different levels of Tryptophan.

So let's say I would make a Tryptophan-rich diet and follow that for a while: Would B6 be significantly more potent effecting dreamclearity? It seems it would then. Great topic.


Also: Is the human body able to metabolise tryptophan itself? And if so what precursing substance gets metabolised into tryptophan? And IF so in what foods can this substance be found?

We should totally make a list of Foods that contain significant levels of Tryptophan. And IF so, a list of Foods that contain significant levels of a precursing substance that gets converted into Tryptophan when metabolised by the human body.

I'd take B6 (Pyridoxine) with caution. I've had episodes of derealisation on B6 & that's with the recommended dose! I was taking it prior to sleep & momentarily I would become totally spaced out! similar sensationally to that of lucid dreaming. I may of been overly sensitive to it, but having read some cases about people overusing and becoming permanently disembodied I've ditched it! Has anyone else on here had any similar experiences?

Not as far as I know. The body needs B6, I'm assuming you're overly sensitive, but I'm not doctor. That said, you should see one about that. From what I know, most people's experiences with B6 "overdose" involve some loss of feeling in their legs. B6 has a tendency when taken too excessively to cause some nerve damage, mainly in the upper legs. However, thats said to even be rarely unless on extremely high doses such as 3g.

250mg isn't actually all that much. There have been tests done with doses between 3000-6000mg with little side effects except for extreme hunger due to how much is being metabolized.

Originally Posted by ExoByte

Not as far as I know. The body needs B6, I'm assuming you're overly sensitive, but I'm not doctor. That said, you should see one about that. From what I know, most people's experiences with B6 "overdose" involve some loss of feeling in their legs. B6 has a tendency when taken too excessively to cause some nerve damage, mainly in the upper legs. However, thats said to even be rarely unless on extremely high doses such as 3g.

250mg isn't actually all that much. There have been tests done with doses between 3000-6000mg with little side effects except for extreme hunger due to how much is being metabolized.

yeah I understand the need for B6 for a healthy metabolism. Besides an aid to lucidity, It's worth having a diet rich in natural B6 . I just became wary about B6 in supplement form after what I experienced. Other side effects of overdose include the loss of proprioceptive faculties & body-distortions.. I just wouldn't cane it!

went out and bought me some of this B6 today.. i might try it tonight, dependin on what time i get to bed.. i had practically no recall last night so my body fully owes me a favour!

For those considering B6 supplements to illicit greater dream variance, consider recent research which shows that serotonin (that which is the result of b6, 5htp, and tryptophan) actually reduces REM sleep. Therefore, invariably reducing dream time.
~

That is a single study and the entire theory is still in development! Its not a fact yet, its still an idea. The word your missing is "allegedly."

Originally Posted by ExoByte

That is a single study and the entire theory is still in development! Its not a fact yet, its still an idea. The word your missing is "allegedly."

It is not a single study - I am sourcing approximately 6-9 sources. Further, there is no "allegedly" as it is all based on empirical observation. Consider the sources for further elaboration.
~

i find that i always get a good night sleep when taking the b6 and the b complex...but does it matter when you take the b's before bed or maby an hour befor or does it even matter.

Hrmm...I have both Trytophan and B6 at my house. Maybe I will give them a try...what did you say is the recommended dosage?

A friend of mine took 3 mg of Tryptophan and 250mg of B6 and said he had amazing results. You may want to go a little higher or lower, but 250mg of B6 seems to be the LDer's average anyway.

250 mg sounds like a lot considering the fact that the vitamin B pills I have have 4,2 mg, but they have other types of vitamin Bs in them, and vitamin C. I bought it before I joined this forum, so I didn't know about these effects of it. I kinda forgot about them, but took one on Thursday evening before bedtime (I was feeling worn out and stressed, and it's sold as an anti stress supplement, and the print reads that it's recommended to take one during the evening) and I had amazingly vivid lucid dreams that night that were easy to control. I managed to complete the lucid tasks of the month, I didn't expect that. I as good as never have vivid and controllable lucid dreams during the weekdays when I work! I also felt rested like never before when I woke up. Could that be the vitamins, or just coincidence? I think I'll definately take them on a regular basis now, I just took one, and I'm going to sleep soon.

I have a question. If I get up after 4-5 hours of sleep for a WBTB, should I take the B6 before any sleep, or wait until the WBTB? In other words, is it best to take it closer to those morning REM periods, or at the beginning of the night?

Hmmm, thats a good question. One thing I don't know and will defiantly look into for you is how long it takes for B6 to metabolize the Tryptophan.

I'd assume you should take it right before you go to sleep at night, that way it'll kick in while you're asleep. Give me a bit, I'll look into it a little more.

Well if Bananas contain tryptophan that should be perfect because they also contain B6! Fairly high levels if I remember correctly.

Anyone on SSRI-medication here able to testify?
Hell yes! They totally change your dreams. I been on a few and the best by far was fluoxetine which is Prozac but mine was called something else I just can't seem to remember atm. But yeh they definitely do enhance vividness and continuity of dreams, the only problem is they are only available legally by prescription.
But for the sake of keeping in track with this discussion serotonin does increase dream 'goodness' on the whole for most people; recall, vividity, continuity and sometimes outrageously strange dreams with no continuity whatsoever.

EDIT: One thing I stress is that if anyone is on MAOI's doctors specifically tell you NOT to eat diets high in tryptophan, so just beware.

Hey ExoByte, did you find anything out about how long it takes for B6 to metabolize Tryptophan? Also, where might I find some information on how much Tryptophan is in a serving size of, say, cheddar cheese? I got the B6, but they didn't have Tryptophan at my local grocery store.

You won't find Tryptophan supplements in a grocery store, try going to your local Pharmacy or Drug Store.

I haven't found out how long it takes exactly, but I'd assume an hour like most nutrients. You may want to try trial and error and see what works better for you, before bed all together or before doing a WBTB. Funnily enough, I had a friend ask me that same question the other day.

I know wikipedia isn't always the most reliable, but this chart should give you a general idea of how much is in different servings of food.

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