Thread: Codename N2D2: NovaDreamer 2 incoming.

Great to see an update on the ND2 - thanks for posting this Zoth!
I owned (and still own) a novadreamer back in the mid 90's - and never got lucid with it at the time despite months of trialling it, I even purchased the PEST (Personal Electronic State Tester) they brought out to link in with it afterwards.

One of the key things I would hope they would address with the ND2 is comfort. I personally found the old unit pretty uncomfortable to sleep with, this meant that you'd often wake up having either completely removed it (I know others who have mentioned waking up to find in the morning they'd thrown it across the room!) or having pushed it up onto my forehead - thus moving the IR REM detectors out of alignment. I ended up using a double sided bit of tape on the foam to literally 'stick' it to my head at night! I know the Remee was meant to be comfortable to wear (I don't own one of these) but perhaps the positioning of the REM sensors (which the Remee lacks) means this is problematic for such a device. Any way hopefully this will be a much more comfortable unit to wear otherwise it'll be difficult to perserve with it.

I agree with the idea of wearing the mask mostly after a wbtb. I've been experimenting with using vibration as a cue to initiate LD's. Obviously increasing awareness is the massive factor here, doing a wbtb with a sort of MILD mantra increases the chance of becoming lucid significantly (what La Berge reported - MILD + Dreamlight were syngeristic in increasing lucidity) But what I also found is that if the stimulus is presented too many times you may become habituated to it during the night reducing the chance of it being incorporated into later dreams (the ones where you are more likely to become and stay lucid due to the natural lengthening of the REM period and the natural increase in awareness as the night progresses). The other key thing I've noted is the level of the intensity of the stimulus required to get it incorporated into a dream will vary throughout the night. ie if you set the novadreamer to a particular setting at the start of the night, this might be a very different threshold to what would be required at the end of the night. It will interesting to see if the new ND2 allows some sort of customization like this. I thought the idea of the REM Dreamer where you could set it to increase the brightness to increase until you communicated back to it with eye movements was a pretty smart one - so this would be a smart solution for the ND2.

sorry if this is a really long post! (my wifes asking me what the heck I'm writing )

Originally Posted by Tlaloc

sorry if this is a really long post! (my wifes asking me what the heck I'm writing )

Not at all, thank you so much for that insightful contribution! Most of us never tried any lucid dreaming mask, so it's always great when a veteran takes the time to feed our imagination a bit more. Sageous mentioned PEST once, but I didn't realize it had come after the NovaDreamer.

One of the key things I would hope they would address with the ND2 is comfort. I personally found the old unit pretty uncomfortable to sleep with, this meant that you'd often wake up having either completely removed it (I know others who have mentioned waking up to find in the morning they'd thrown it across the room!) or having pushed it up onto my forehead - thus moving the IR REM detectors out of alignment.

I agree with the idea of wearing the mask mostly after a wbtb. I've been experimenting with using vibration as a cue to initiate LD's. Obviously increasing awareness is the massive factor here, doing a wbtb with a sort of MILD mantra increases the chance of becoming lucid significantly (what La Berge reported - MILD + Dreamlight were syngeristic in increasing lucidity) But what I also found is that if the stimulus is presented too many times you may become habituated to it during the night reducing the chance of it being incorporated into later dreams (the ones where you are more likely to become and stay lucid due to the natural lengthening of the REM period and the natural increase in awareness as the night progresses).

*zoth pays heavy attention to this paragraph*

Hmmm. Well, in this particular case I'd say a good degree of prospective memory would give you the best results. The big weakness of MILD is that it relies heavily on the specific cue, making it fallible in terms of dreamsigns (they don't always show up), or "universal dreamsigns" (one example being negative content: it requires self-monitoring that once again, it's exactly the think you're lacking when you're not lucid). With NovaDreamer - initiate hypothethic mode - you would solve that problem. Regarding what you said about habituation (because we see the stimulus is presented many times during the night), I'm actually not sure if I understand it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the image I have of the event:

1. During day, good PM (prospective memory) results in 50 occurrences of individual executing response (Reality Check) in face of cue (light from a targeted source);
2. During night, cue shows up, generating traditional response: this time a light source leads (eventually) to a Reality Check: reward (lucidity) achieved.
3. Next day, repeat step 1: 50 occurrences of cue showing up and generating 50 responses, but no reward.
4. Next night, repeat step 2: eventual cue and response is once again awarded with lucidity.

What we know about contigency in operant conditioning:

If a consequence does not contingently (reliably, or consistently) follow the target response, its effectiveness upon the response is reduced. But if a consequence follows the response consistently after successive instances, its ability to modify the response is increased. The schedule of reinforcement, when consistent, leads to faster learning. When the schedule is variable the learning is slower. Extinction is more difficult when learning occurs during intermittent reinforcement and more easily extinguished when learning occurs during a highly consistent schedule.

Meaning as long volition is present, extinction would become harder and harder because of all the attempts the individual would make during the day that result in nothing. Right? Or does your experience with the NovaDreamer indicate that habituation can occur? I got no clue regarding how many times per REM cycle the device must shoot light hmm.
What makes EILD so good is that you can rely on a single cue for all your purposes. You don't even need to "think" about it: just train yourself like a dog to respond in the same way every time you see a source of light. Frustration will hardly be present once that response becomes more and more automatic and deeply ingrained in your routine. This is what it happens, but so far I haven't seen any reports on it....what do you think fails in this chain of thought?

The other key thing I've noted is the level of the intensity of the stimulus required to get it incorporated into a dream will vary throughout the night. ie if you set the novadreamer to a particular setting at the start of the night, this might be a very different threshold to what would be required at the end of the night.

Let me guess: the earlier during the night, the higher the level must be? It would make the most sense.

I thought the idea of the REM Dreamer where you could set it to increase the brightness to increase until you communicated back to it with eye movements was a pretty smart one - so this would be a smart solution for the ND2.

Yup! Except it would have to be a pretty well-defined sequence, to prevent any accidental responses xD

Once again, thank you for the contribution Tlaloc