Galantamind Melatonin and WILDing...

[DeltaDreamer]

Hey guys, I'm just making a quick thread as I believe my last post was in the wrong section. I recently bought GalantaMind from amazon and tried one pill Saturday morning. I didn't sleep well but the dreams I had were far more vivid than usual and my dream recall was much improved. And to my shock I can say that about every night since, that I'm still having more vivid dreams and I still can recall them better. Now I'm looking to experiment and find the best way to ensure LDing. Part of that is an app I'm using on my android phone that helps me with realty checks. The questions I have are first, should I take 5mg's of melatonin at the beginning of the night, then set alarm for five hours later to take a GM pill or two? And what is a good average time for a WILD, as I'll already be up to take the GM pill? Thanks in advance for your help!

[FryingMan]

Take it slow with the melatonin as well, always start with the minimal doses of everything and slowly build up over time to find the minimum dose that works for you. 5mg may be enough to suppress REM well into the middle of your sleep, or perhaps farther, and suppressed REM means (probably) no LDs. Good luck! Oh you may also want to try adding in some extra choline (choline bitartrate or alpha-gpc) along with the galantine. Anyone taking supplements for lucid dreaming should be required to first read the Thomas Yuschak book, BTW, I highly recommend doing so.

[DeltaDreamer]

Hey FryingMan, thanks for the help... Yeah, I think I should probably just cut the pill in half then, the melatonin I mean. And yes, I've read many members talking about Yuschak's book, lots of great information... Galantamind has choline in it, 200mg in each pill, and I read to take up to two... Is that how much you meant or should I possibly invest in seperate pills? Thanks again! Also, still doing more reading on the various methods for LDing... WILD seems really tough, but I think I may have experienced the beginnings, if that's possible, before. Would my best bet be to just take about 2.5mg's of Melatonin at the beginning of the night, set alarm for 5 hours later and take 1 GlantaMind pil, do a WBTB for a about a half hour and come and read posts here, and then try and WILD? Thoughts as always are appreciated!

[DeltaDreamer]

Wow, come on, too many responses to read through!:} Kidding of course, but it'd be great if someone in my similar circumstances could offer some advice on how to deal with my approach... Or if a vet would have some critiques or some such... Thanks again!

[FryingMan]

Lucid dreaming, and supplements, is largely a solo path. What works for some doesn't work for others. So you have to experiment and figure it out for yourself. The general agreed upon approach is to try to introduce supplements one by one and at minimal doses until you find what works for you. Melatonin at bed-time might knock our your dreaming (and thus lucidity) and counteract galantamine until it wears off later in the morning. Or it might keep you relaxed enough to fall easily back asleep after taking the G. And Yuschak recommends combining different forms of choline,specifically choline bitartrate and alpha-gpc, as they have different decay curves, with the notion of prolonging the period when the G is active and giving you the most chance to have LDs.

[Nfri]

My advice: Screw the melatonin, take galantamine+choline after ~4,5 hrs of sleep. Be active for ~30-40 minutes, I mean really active, go out, maybe buy a breakfast... The longer wbtb the better, but remember peak plasma level of galatamine is 60 minutes, that means that after ingesting the pill you need to be sleeping in 60 minutes afterward. Don't try to wild, it won't allow you to fall asleep fast if you are not well trained wilder. Instead do just 10 minutes mild and go normaly sleep.

[FryingMan]

My advice: Screw the melatonin, take galantamine+choline after ~4,5 hrs of sleep. Be active for ~30-40 minutes, I mean really active, go out, maybe buy a breakfast... The longer wbtb the better, but remember peak plasma level of galatamine is 60 minutes, that means that after ingesting the pill you need to be sleeping in 60 minutes afterward. Don't try to wild, it won't allow you to fall asleep fast if you are not well trained wilder. Instead do just 10 minutes mild and go normaly sleep. If you have trouble falling alseep, however, (Nfri seems to be one of the lucky ones who can fall asleep quickly on demand, do I remember that correctly, Nfri?) I'd modify this by taking the supplements then immediately going back to bed. Do this at a time of the night where you normally can get back to sleep quickly. You'd much much much rather be asleep with the supplements kick in is the point. No visualizations, no MILD, just take 'em and return to sleep as quickly as possible. But that's for me, I've yet to be able to get back to sleep during the peak of the galantamine/choline after about 4 attempts. So experiment with timing to find what works best for you.

[Nfri]

(Nfri seems to be one of the lucky ones who can fall asleep quickly on demand, do I remember that correctly, Nfri?) I though I'm lucky but last two times, I get trouble to fall back to sleep. Anyway trick is wake up in the time you feel very tired. Use will to wake up and raise your awareness. Good idea is to think your self that you must go to work, school test, dentist or something unpleasant and you can't affort to go back to sleep. When you lie to your self like that, then you go back to sleep and you will be sleepin in 5 min. I just woke up from 30 minutes long LD but timing was wrong, I couldn't sleep so quickly, because I was feeling rested and full of energy. It takes mind control and long time to fall asleep again. The result was lucid dream with full lucidity but vividness were weird and control sux. Need to analyze that.

[FryingMan]

Was it a "G" LD or without supplements?

[Nfri]

Try to guess

[FryingMan]

Well, "shee hubba hubba," I don't know. More galantamine, choline, and scrambled eggs for breakfast I suppose? 30 minutes LD? Da-yum.

[DeltaDreamer]

Hey Fryingman, yes, like so many things LD is just as individualized as anything. And experimenting might just be the ticket, although I did up myself to the limit GM wise and took two pills, though again not much happened in the way of LDing. Nfri, yes, WILDing seems tough right now as I've never done it but have been reading up a lot on it. But yeah, the WBTB is more than doable and your timing may just work. Though as Fryingman indicated I take it you generally have good luck with falling back to sleep? Either way thanks guys, this is what I need, just some basic guidance now that I'm taking these supplements and reading all things LD. (Which is why I'm here also, as I can only imagine there's a lot of crap out there.)

[DeltaDreamer]

I should also add, or rather ask, what you guys think about these dream control \ LD hypnosis programs? The same thing for youtube videos that use bi-neural beats, hypnosis, etc, while you're sleeping... Have you tried them with any degree of success?

[FryingMan]

I should also add, or rather ask, what you guys think about these dream control \ LD hypnosis programs? The same thing for youtube videos that use bi-neural beats, hypnosis, etc, while you're sleeping... Have you tried them with any degree of success? Tried them once or twice, mostly just kept me awake, I have to use headphones so that's fairly inconvenient and uncomfortable.

[Goldenspark]

Hey Deltadreamer, I've used G+Ch somewhat like you, and although I've tried to WILD on it, I've never yet succeeded like Yuschak suggests. I've now concluded that it's best to just get back to sleep. I've had DILDs on about half the times I've tried, but usually about 2-3 hours after taking, probably because I struggle to get to sleep. I've been concentrating on better dream recall and awareness and have been slowly improving that. I think my route to success will be better natural ability, but hope the supplements will keep me interested on the way! I only do the G once a week, and take Piracetam on the morning after to help it clear, which seems to work in terms of not getting desensitised.

[FryingMan]

I think the only way for G/ChBi/A-GPC to work for me is to take it while still very tired and immediately go back to sleep, no daydreaming, no anticipating awesome dreams, just head immediately for unconscious mindless sleep, no WILDs, etc. I'll also try taking it earlier since at 5 hours I generally wake up really easily. 4 hours probably next time. Should be fine since I normally have really aware dreams around 6th hour. What a good source of piracetam? Looked on amazon a few times but nothing seemed good. Loose powder sort of freaks me out I'd want either tablets or capsules (although I prefer tablets because capsules seem to stick in my throat easily).

[DeltaDreamer]

Frying man - Yeah that's the trouble I have with headphones as well! Goldenspark - Yep, Yuschak seemed to be very enthusiastic about the G+Ch, but I haven't used it enough to agree or disagree really. And yes, your path seems similar to my own as I too need to get better with recall and awareness. Tell me this though, do you really need to take Piracetam even if you used the GM at the recommend rate? That is to say, if you don't use it more than you should, you shouldn't have any issues right? Fryingman again:} - Again, I'm guessing I'm like you as well in that just take the damn pills and go back to sleep! So you're saying you do better after 4 hours? Also I found choline on sale at GNC.com and hopefully at the store, 250 mgs for about 9 dollars. As you recommended above to augment the GM I already have, you think that would work? But will that be too much? As always guys I very appreciate the help! EDIT: Also if you wouldn't mind go to GNC and check it out as well, white bottle blue label, just want to make sure!

[FryingMan]

Don't know yet about the 4 hours. But I want to be *asleep* when the stuff hits so as not to waste time! WILD has never been my friend, so I'm aiming for DILD with the supps for now. Just keep experimenting, starting with small doses at first and building up from there, and experimenting with timing. It's all about finding your own personal sweet spot. I'm stoked with my AAB success, maybe this means the G will work for me next time.

[Goldenspark]

Goldenspark - Tell me this though, do you really need to take Piracetam even if you used the GM at the recommend rate? That is to say, if you don't use it more than you should, you shouldn't have any issues right? I've tried taking Piracetam immediately on walking as Yuschak suggested, but not so I can take the G more often. It does just seem to make me feel better. After G my head can feel a little "hungover", but really its only slight and I'm not too bothered either way. I've only ever done Max 8mg G, and only once a week usually, although I did try a three day break once with Pira to see. Without Pira I can say the effects of the G seem to go on into the second night in terms of dream vividness and recall, but then nights 3&4 tend to be often poor recall, like a rebound? I am concerned that I would prefer a natural ability:-)

[DeltaDreamer]

Cool guys, thanks for the help... By and large having taken the GM I haven't had any trouble really, not enough to take something else to get it out my system... I was just concerned that it seemed you should take it either way after you take the GM, as I only thought it was just if you are taking too much or OD. Fryingman - AAB success?

[FryingMan]

Fryingman - AAB success? Yes, I had vivid and long, fun/wild dreams late morning with way more action than normal for late morning dreams (which are usually closer to lifelike), and a fun lucid minute (not high level and no goals memory but still fun). I posted about it on my DJ and on other lucid aid threads. It made me very interested in trying out the exact Yuschak formula. Others have posited that the fuller blend I took may be better than the Yuschak 3. However, since it was from a muscle gainer mix, it most probably contains the D-AA instead of the L-AA.

[DeltaDreamer]

Wow man, very cool... I hope to have half your success! So I went over Yuschak's guide again in conjunction with you Goldenspark's help and finally put two and two together... "I think the only way for G/ChBi/A-GPC to work for me is to take it while still very tired and immediately go back to sleep..." So allow me to point out the obvious and say... Is taking the Galantamind AND Alpha-GPC supplements is one the combo you're using and two, what Yuschak suggested? (Sorry to sound so dense but I don't want to fudge anything up, especially taking supplements.) I went to amazon and found Now Foods Alpha GPC 300 mg tabs, 22 dollars for 60 pills. What is your source for AGPC and is 300 mg's okay to add to my current Galantamind cocktail? (Thanks again!!!!!)

[DeltaDreamer]

I should also add \ ask, how important are varied reality checks? I know that sounds novice, what I mean is the one app I use on my phone I have set to do reality checks every half hour with a specific sound and text. There's a random setting to the checks and or the same "are you dreaming." I stopped the random ones and just went for the simple text check. My logic is as long as I associate RC's with the sound from the app, and as long as I do specifically look at the text and then a quick check of my surroundings, I'm good right? Or am I!~?!??!

[FryingMan]

Update: Nift (I think) found the source that says that Up your mass has L-aspartic acid (all the AAs are the L-variety). I've tried: 1) 1xgalantamind 4mg alone, 2) 1xgalantamind 4mg + 1x300mg Choline Bitartrate, 3) 1xgalantamind 4mg + 1x300mgCholine Bitartrate + 1x300mg Alpha GPC, and 4) 2xgalantamind 4mg + 1x300mgCholine Bitartrate + 1x300mg Alpha GPC I think I have that right. In cases 1-3 I didn't get back to sleep, in case 4 after HOURS and HOURS of trying my best "go to sleep kung fu", I eventually did sleep and a LD started (actually saw the dream forming, pretty darn cool), but I lost lucidity right away Yes that's the Yuschak "double trigger" method since choline bitartrate and alpha GPC have offset time to peak plasma levels so that there's a longer effective choline boost for the galantamine to enable. I don't recall if I got alpha-gpc from amazon or from the vitamin shoppe. Galantamind definitely was from amazon. That sounds like a good alpha-gpc. How important is day practice? In my mind it's critical. Otherwise, you'll have a lot of amazing things happen to you, then you'll wake up and say "wow I can't believe that was a dream." Day practice is much more than just doing RCs. There's a lot on this site about RCs and how to do them, awareness practice, etc. For best results I believe one must more or less continuously question their state during the day, in order to continuously question it during the night. With sufficiently elevated self-awareness, RCs are just a formality, you'll just *know* when you're dreaming. But that takes time to develop. But it's not for me to say the supps won't work right away. Experiment! All advice is just a guideline, a starting point, dreaming is personal, you have to figure out what works for you. Yeah I'm psyched to try the AAB again soon.

[DeltaDreamer]

Wow, you've been through the trenches supplements \ experimentation wise! But you're right, like you said before as well, it's just about experimenting \ troubleshooting what works and doesn't. I'll buy the AGPC then to augment my GMD. Tell me this though if you know, do you take the GMD and the AGPC at the same time, about five hours after sleeping? (Obviously I want to be sure.) And yes, it really needs to become second nature to question your surroundings AND understand them, feel them, to just know. And as I'm still learning I don't mind asking, what do you mean by AAB?