So I joined that group on Facebook.
It makes more sence to me.
I mean we were here first and then the mexicans come in. Then we are REQUIRED to learn spanish?
pfft.
What do you think
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So I joined that group on Facebook.
It makes more sence to me.
I mean we were here first and then the mexicans come in. Then we are REQUIRED to learn spanish?
pfft.
What do you think
Look at it this way, if you learn another language you have better job opportunities...yaay!
I'd like to learn Spanish. I don't think it really matters who's there first or whatever. Knowing another language is always a plus. :shadewink:
I'm surprised people would argue over this lol.
I think Americans should learn English :_;Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaLovegood
Honestly though, I don't see why you wouldn't want to learn a second language. Personally, I love languages more than anything :D
;\
this thread is awful
'we' weren't here first. native americans were. we didn't learn cherokee, we killed them all.
this is really a pretty rude thread. you should think more before you post.
Spanish is a pretty useful language to know. You're not learning it because "the mexicuns awr illegawl immergrants that awr stealin them there jowbs!"
although i essentially agree with no-name, there's still a potential discussion here.
maybe if schools in the US were smarter they'd teach kids chinese? i'm not sure... :roll:
I wanted to learn spanish for so long. And I will.
My attempts so far haven't been very fruitful, but it's going to happen.
And foreign languages should always be taught. Spanish also happens
to be one of the world languages. It does make sense to learn it, even
for that reason alone. Other then that... yeah, pretty much 90% of the
people are learning English one way or the other anyway. I don't really
get why people would be upset because of this...
hehe, no kiddingQuote:
Originally Posted by cygnus
...my opinion? Spellcheck/Correct your grammar prior to posting something involving learning languages.
But anyway, While I think if a person (for conversation's sake, let's just say from Mexico, since that's what most people are concerned with these days.) chooses to move to another country (again, for our purposes, let's just go on ahead and say America.) they should have the courtesy and sense to learn at least enough English (in this case.) to be able to hold a conversation and understand basic sentences and words. If I were to move to Italy (as is one of my plans in the future) I would make sure I knew enough Italian to get by (though technically I already do.) and even though English is basically the most spoken language out there, I would not expect everyone to understand it. Basically, a little bit of education beforehand on their part makes everyone happier in the long run. No language barriers on either side.
That all said, what's the problem with learning another language? I mean, Spanish bored me a bit, but that's cause I learned it in Middle school. I despised middle school. Once I got to high school and took Italian classes, I looked forward to that class every day. Granted it doesn't go along with your thoughts about Spanish, simply cause it's not, but hey. Same concept. I was just looking for something a little different, and since I was interested in visiting Italy, it made sense. (and proved very helpful when I finally did go.)
My apologies for the excessive use of parenthesis. It's a habit I need to control.
ಥ_ಥ
No-name took the words right out of my mouth.
Why were the Native Americans required to learn English? They were here first.
We "have" to learn Spanish, because the US is an "all-inclusive" country (at least, in the way of appearances). The economy is becoming more and more "dependent" (read as: reliant) on Hispanic workers, so it is important to that integration that our newer generations are able to expedite communications with Hispanic people. Whether or not it's a good thing remains to be seen (as of now, it's all about the bottom dollar).
But there isn't a single European/Asian/Australian/African/Etc-American person here, who has the right to say "we were here first," because, well, we weren't. Things are simply changing now, just like they changed when the settlers took things over, way back when - only less violently.
They way I look at it is, either get with the times or don't. There's nothing wrong with being upset with having to change for someone else, but no one of our generation should be making any false claims of entitlement, because the way English was brought to this land was under far more detestable means.
Me? I'm learning Spanish because I think it's a beautiful language. The fact that it's becoming more and more common plays a small part in that, but mostly I'm just fascinated with the language, itself.
I love how terrible you are at using proper English.
God damn, irony is terrific.
Hmm, are you referring to the title of the thread?
Because that is the title of the FB group she joined... Not her own words.
There was also some lack of punctuation and capitalization going on in her post.Quote:
Originally Posted by slash112
Hmm.
This is a pretty sophisticated argument.
I will need some time to digest it.
Sigh... :facepalm:
My recent trip to Spain has changed my opinion on this entirely. To me, the title and OP argument seems like the most self-centered, asshole-ish argument I've ever heard.
Yes, someone traveling to a foreign country SHOULD have some knowledge of the native language. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
However, this attitude is also what is ruining America's image in the rest of the world. We look selfish, ignorant, and oppressive to other countries. And do you know why? Those Americans can't get off of their lazy asses and learn to communicate, even when they have a neighbor that speaks (nearly) the same language! The rest of the world is learning English just to make a better living by dealing with Americans. Everybody I met in Spain had to learn English starting in preschool. Over there, knowing English instantly quadruples one's annual income because so little economic opportunity lies within their home country---so much more lies in America.
The flipside, stated earlier, is also true for us. Nearly all of our business is overseas. How are we going to prosper if we can't communicate with our business partners?
The intellectual aspects of learning another language have already been stated. Really, who would hate the ability to communicate with a larger chunk of the human species? Yes, it takes work, just like every other skill in life. Deal with it.
Living with a Spanish family for five of those days on that trip has also shown me one more thing: it is extremely difficult for a foreigner to communicate when put into a situation where he/she can barely understand a word said. It's the worst feeling in the world!!! I got smacked hard by that, and I've studied Spanish for five years! I felt that every word said in English, even when used improperly, was a small godsend.
And then I realized that this is exactly how a Spanish speaker feels in OUR country.
So please, when learning Spanish, French, or whatever language is being forced onto you by the school system, remember this: it it for your own good, for the good for the United States, and for the good of the entire world!
The problems associated with Hispanic immigrants not learning English is caused by two things:
Volume and Education
The first issue is the sheer volume of Hispanic immigrants we have, when you have millions of people from one country in another country, they will invariably settle down among other people from a similar background/language/culture thus creating ethnic and cultural enclaves. I can't really blame them for this though, in their place, I would do the same. I think the issue with Mexican immigration is to a certain extent comparable to the problems associated with mass German immigration where there was very little integration, both culturally and linguistically and some people were even saying the same things about them as they are now about Hispanics.
The second issue is education. Let's face it. The majority of Hispanic immigrants don't have a great deal of education, sometimes not even High School diplomas and rarely post secondary education of any sort. If we were to let's say replace the amount of non us born Hispanics with a comparable amount of Hispanics who have significant post secondary education, such as doctors, psychologist, architects, I would think that they would integrate much more easily than the lot we have now who would integrate much more smoothly due to socio-economic status and other factors.
That said, I think the issue will resolve itself with ever passing generation. I remember reading somewhere that something like only 9% of 3rd gen Hispanics speak Spanish proficiently.
It doesn't matter. English is the majority language of the US, and it is only common courtesy and common sense that immigrants adapt to the language. Whatever happened 400 or even 200 years ago is not relevant to the current immigration discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onerionaut
The fact is that the US society is by and large Anglophone speaking.
In the past, I have traveled to different countries on short notice, and I have done my best to learn the basics of the language and grammar to get by. My opinion is that people should not try to change the society around you that you move to, you should adapt to it.
Certainly English was imposed on the US, but so was a whole plethora of other languages on other regions of the world. That doesn't mean that if you move to those countries you should snub the whole population by trying to get by on your own native language without having the decency to try to learn the basics of the local language. By that logic, if I move to Algeria I should not try to learn Arabic or French because those languages where themselves imposed on the local population (who are descended from the indigenous Berbers). My thinking is what is in the past is in the past, and what is in the present is in the present. The present that we have is one where the United States is a majority Anglophone nation and just for the sake of a cohesive society immigrants should adapt to the language and culture for that matter.
Same thing here in Canada. Them Frenchies always need it their way :P
They whine and moan for years that we aren't doing enough to 'preserve' their precious 'culture', and say they'll only be happy if all of Canada makes French mandatory in schools. So now the 12 provinces that AREN'T FRENCH have it mandatory to teach french 'till grade 8.
Think how much money went into all the schools in TWELVE PROVINCES to change the curriculum to teach kids french for 8 years. Not only did the kids not have a choice in the first place, but if they did they probably would choose not to... or at least a majority would.
But, no use wasting all my needed energy on getting all flustered over this... it's just that they're so annoying. When I went to Quebec a large percent of the people there looked down on me when I spoke to them in English. Snobby little buggers.
*Caution* Lots of generalizations were used in the above sentences, and much of the anger and ignorance is fueled by a prejudece deep seeded in my youth.
edit:
I should make it clear that I'm first nations, and this is nothing compared to what the Europeans did to us... but that's in the past and this is now.
I disagree. America is billed as being a "melting pot." It is an all-inclusive Nation (or so it claims to be). Part of this includes assimilating some aspects of those diverse cultures within. This country changes along with its ever-changing demographics. Yes, English is the main language of the country now, but soon it's going to apparently have two main languages, and that is due to the number of Mexican immigrants we have moving to this "all-inclusive" country.Quote:
Originally Posted by YesterdayToday
It wouldn't make economic sense for a country that is obviously trying so hard to integrate more Mexican immigrants to not require a course in Spanish, as part of the regular curriculum.
In another country, I might back you on this. But this is America. If it was just a couple of tourists coming in and out of the country, or a couple of people coming over here to live, then sure, they should be doing what they can to learn the main language. But when the country is visibly trying to more closely-knit the two cultures (one of which is already a diverse mixture of other cultures), things are going to change.Quote:
In the past, I have traveled to different countries on short notice, and I have done my best to learn the basics of the language and grammar to get by. My opinion is that people should not try to change the society around you that you move to, you should adapt to it.
Yes, the US is a majority Anglophone nation, and the more America wants to integrate with Mexico, and encourage their migrating here, the more sense it makes to allow language to accommodate each other. Sure, it's easy to just have everyone who comes over here learn to speak English, but the gaps between cultures are going to be bridged much more quickly, if they both learn to speak each other's languages.Quote:
Certainly English was imposed on the US, but so was a whole plethora of other languages on other regions of the world. That doesn't mean that if you move to those countries you should snub the whole population by trying to get by on your own native language without having the decency to try to learn the basics of the local language. By that logic, if I move to Algeria I should not try to learn Arabic or French because those languages where themselves imposed on the local population (who are descended from the indigenous Berbers). My thinking is what is in the past is in the past, and what is in the present is in the present. The present that we have is one where the United States is a majority Anglophone nation and just for the sake of a cohesive society immigrants should adapt to the language and culture for that matter.
Personally, I think the whole argument is silly. It's not like they are completely erasing the English language. Maybe I'm just biased because I actually enjoy learning Spanish, and have lived around Spanish culture all my life, but I really don't see what all the fuss is about.
And what do you have to say about people in other countries being made to learn English?
Obviously the money would be better spent in geography.Quote:
Originally Posted by mindwanderer
(thanks to Xox for finding this one)
http://imgfave.lg1x8z.simplecdn.net/...286763265.jpeg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Well this may be just my opinion, but I think in the grand scheme of things, a nation it is better to be united under one language at the very least, rather than a bunch of linguistical enclaves.
I have no problem with Spanish or Latino culture, hell i happen to love Cuban music, but the issue is that it makes more economic sense for immigrants themselves to adapt to the country. Otherwise they are putting themselves at a huge disadvantage and they are opening themselves up to exploitation. I have no illusion or right wing delusions about Spanish eclipsing English if that was what you were thinking.
Quote:
In another country, I might back you on this. But this is America. If it was just a couple of tourists coming in and out of the country, or a couple of people coming over here to live, then sure, they should be doing what they can to learn the main language. But when the country is visibly trying to more closely-knit the two cultures (one of which is already a diverse mixture of other cultures), things are going to change.
Yes, demographics change and they are changing. By the middle part of this century Hispanics (of all races) will make around a quarter of the US population. However, I maintain that it is important for a country to have a common language between people, especially in one the size and scope of the US.
Quote:
Yes, the US is a majority Anglophone nation, and the more America wants to integrate with Mexico, and encourage their migrating here, the more sense it makes to allow language to accommodate each other. Sure, it's easy to just have everyone who comes over here learn to speak English, but the gaps between cultures are going to be bridged much more quickly, if they both learn to speak each other's languages.
Personally, I think the whole argument is silly. It's not like they are completely erasing the English language. Maybe I'm just biased because I actually enjoy learning Spanish, and have lived around Spanish culture all my life, but I really don't see what all the fuss is about.
Realistically, a majority of the population is not going to learn another language to accommodate a small percentage of the general population which is either incapable or unwilling to learn the majority language. Don't get me wrong, it is a good thing if people became bilingual.I encourage it. But the main issue here is that the statistics that I have seen show that with every generation Hispanics become more and more assimilated into the majority language. By the third generation or so almost none are proficient in Spanish. So, my point here is that the first generation Hispanics should learn English as an imperative for functioning in a society where like 87-90% of the population is native anglophone. If they don't, they put themselves at a huge disadvantage in society in general. They make less money, they are prone to exploitation, and they integrate much less than another immigrant that learned English.
Ultimately, this hurts their children's future. One way or another they will adjust to English, either this generation does or the next will do so invariably. But if a first gen doesn't do so, they will have a lower quality of life and all the other reasons I listed. So it just makes sense to learn English anyway you look at it.
It depends really. Are they made to learn it in school as a second language or are they forced to speak it and use it to the determent of their native language?Quote:
And what do you have to say about people in other countries being made to learn English?
Certainly in some countries where their languages are not used beyond their own borders, teaching a second, "international" language is beneficial. I mean think of Singapore which uses English and Mandarin as a second language, or India with English. I'm not apposed to learning a second language at school or one being taught in schools. I had years of learning a second language and I wouldn't trade that for anything.
Learning multiple languages makes you SMARTER. Literally. It enables you to think in different ways, to find differences/similarities between languages.
I ought to learn me another language. I've forgotten my two years of high school French.
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/national_language.jpg
Congrats on slotting so neatly into your country's stereotype of foreign ignorance and hostility, LL.
Pretty much everywhere else in the world, you learn a foreign language as a matter of course. I chose German.
I hate threads that start a huge argument/discussion and the OP never comes back. Either embarrassment or trolling, I guess.