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I'd say people are pissed because they don't want to learn a language so that they may communicate with people who moved here illegally. From the OP's wording, people in Illinois seem to be required to learn Spanish. Personally, I can understand why some people would feel highly disrespected if they are being asked to make alterations in their lives because other people have broken the law.
I had a long post, but I deleted it. Just wanted to share my general opinion, and part of it comes from living in Russia for 8 months:
Should immigrants to America learn English? Yes.
Should Americans be patient with non-native English speakers? Absolutely!
Should Americans learn other languages? Absolutely!
I also want to add that Americans should also make an effort to learn English. "I don't got no..." used with any sort of frequency ain't gonna cut it in my book. Stop saying "haven't got." And learn to spell! Stop writing essays using the words "cuz" and "smth" and "gonna." You're not texting your teacher. You're writing an essay. Save "lol" for the Internet, please.
It's late and I'm tired and my thoughts are going everywhere. The last was because my Russian students make those mistakes all the time and it drives me NUTS! I'm going to bed.
^So you're saying it's Americans who are butchering the English language? Guess you've never heard Irish English, Scottish English, or even those - in England - who speak with a Cockney accent.
Anyway, in regards to the the topic at hand...should immigrants learn the language of the country they're "moving into"? Uh, yeah. Kind of common courtesy, there, guys. English speaking people have just as much right to "look down upon" (for want of a better term) those with little or no English skills - trying to fit into their community - as an employer for engineers has the right to deny job apps submitted by those who have little or no experience in engineering. This applies to anyone from any nation. If I'm going to Germany, I'm learning German. Period. It's the polite thing to do. Going to their country and telling all the nationals "speak English! I can't understand German! Speak my - the foreigner's - language!" is just plain disrespectful.
And about the whole "the Native Americans were here FIIIIIRST! UR so MEEEEEAN!" bullshit...so the fuck WHAT? That was the past. And although history is important for us to learn - so that we don't repeat our mistakes - we have to come to grips with the fact that we're living in the HERE and the NOW, and that there are matters - language barriers being among them - that affect us HERE and NOW.
[I realize I'll probably get flamed for that. "Fuck you" in advance.]
NOW, the U.S. is populated mostly by English speakers...the cruel methods my ancestors used to achieve this notwithstanding. I can't change their actions. Therefore, why would I be so "asshole-ish" to expect foreigners in (what is NOW) my country to be able to communicate with me in my own language? That just escapes me, guys.
Now, none of this is to say that Americans shouldn't at least try to learn some Spanish. At the basic level of communication, Spanish could be considered an easy language to learn. Trifling, even. People's biggest excuse seems to be "but they talk too fast!" Well, guess what? The words "sólo entiendo cuando habla más lento" will magically cause a Spanish speaker to talk more slowly.
Anyway, I've had enough of this crap. This damn thread has been keeping me from my work for long enough.
You know what would solve all these language dilemmas? If the world got together and created a simple, functional, easy to learn universal language.
Like Esperanto?
I think we should revive latin, then. That's at least where most of our languages stem from.. :D
On a side note, everytime you're killing a language, you're killing an entire way
of thinking and therefore an entire branch of human culture, accomplishments
and perspectives. Language is much more than just communication. It's rooted
in our very nature of understanding our surroundings. I think it is important to
keep this in mind very firmly, when we think about 'a universal language' and to
remind ourselves that we are capable to maybe also speak two, or three of them.
Personally, I'm not complaining about "having to learn English." It's a fun language
and I'm glad it's pretty much universal.
Perhaps everyone should just learn Sumerian? :chuckle:
But people aren't asked to learn Spanish particularly.. It's a decision among other offered languages, like French and German. I picked German in high school. Keep in mind I reside in Southern California, fairly close to the border, and Spanish is not mandatory. A second language is.Quote:
Personally, I can understand why some people would feel highly disrespected if they are being asked to make alterations in their lives because other people have broken the law.
fyeaQuote:
Perhaps everyone should just learn Sumerian?
California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas,was originally part of Mexico. Wasn't Florida a Spanish colony? When the U.S. claimed it as it's own the 'Mexicans' living there became 'Americans' I guess.
Esperanto? Sounds cool. Most languages do not come from Latin, only the romantic languages do, like French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Slovenian, etc. English is a Germanic language. It is interesting that all languages come from an Indo-European root in the middle East except Australian Aborigine, Native American, and African.
English and also german are still strongly influenced by latin.
So now it's the creators of the language who are doing it wrong, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lëzen
And, I'll have you know that a properly spoke Scottish accent is the only accent that actually makes all the sounds of the words correct. At least, that's what I've found to be true.
Exactly lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer
Btw...learning is fun! Get edumacated.
We are the dumbest country in the world as far as language is concerned. It bugs me when people complain about having to learn another language or piss and moan about just having to learn a few phrases when they go to another country. The majority of the people in the rest of the world know 2 or 3 languages at least. If you grew up in China, you'd probably know 3 or 4. If you grew up in South Africa, you'd probably know anywhere between 4 and 8. I am ashamed to be a stupid American who only knows one language and I wish I had been required to seriously learn one when I was in school.
As it is, the required language programs in this country are a joke. I took spanish for 2 years in highschool and I didn't learn anything. Except, "como se dice" which means "how do you say".
Hola, me llamo Dannon. ?Como se llama?
Me llamo Juan. Como esta?
Bien, gracias, ?y tu?
Asi asi. ?Donde esta el bano?
Repite, por favor.
?Donde esta el bano?
Son las tres y media
Que?
Son las tres y media
No creo que me entienda- ?Donde esta el cuarto de bano? Nessesito urinar pronto.
No entiendo.
lmao dannon...exactly
I usually find it easy to pick up new languages though. When I lived in Bangkok I absolutely loved learning Thai, it's a great language...and they are great people who are so very happy if you can even say Hello in Thai. Most of them speak english btw.
When I was in America for a year I took Spanish 1&2 also and it was justQuote:
Originally Posted by Xaqaria
utterly pointless. They wanted to teach the language through games and
shit like that and besides from the class being very slow paced, there were
no grammatical structures or basics whatsoever involved.
For laughs and giggles, I took German IV and I must say that none of the
students in this class could really speak the language at all. They could
translate simple texts, could say some more or less learned phrases and
some of their variations, but it was in know way possible to hold a
conversation with any of them. Not a single one could even really
understand the teacher and I, when we talked in german.
But what I have found to be a major factor in learning a language is that
you need to have spent some time in a country, where it is actively spoken.
Spanish is my fourth language (school-wise), but I only understand some
and speak none. So my plan is to move to a Spanish-speaking country for
a while and pick up the language as I go. Easiest way, in my opinion.
Yea, when I was in Cambodia I also started to pick up some Khmer andQuote:
Originally Posted by Aquanina
it just makes things so much easier and nicer, too. Unfortunately, I wasn't
forced to speak a lot of it.. but I'll be going back this summer and then I
will put more effort into it.
A little late in a reply.
Oops. Guess I just went to my roots too quickly. Replace "Americans" with "native English speakers" and you'll have what I really meant :) My students still write "smb" and "smth" on their tests and it still drives me crazy! 14 teaching days left in the semester. 4 lesson plans, reviews, and tests. Meh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lëzen
Beh. This thread is awful. I didn't look at it because I knew what it would be like, and I was right.
Disperse
Thank you for your contribution.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordyM
I do what I can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaqaria
http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/...1109384869.jpg
I'm a little curious as to what you mean by this. You're not implying that American's don't have their hand in trashing English, are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lëzen
This whole thread is pretty sad for one reason. Knowledge is wonderful and for one, knowledge is power. That's not to say that one should learn knowledge to abuse it, but, you get the point. Anyways, back in my country, when I was little and went through the system, I was learning Arabic, English and French at the same time. We used to learn how to read, write and speak the languages. I thought it was a great idea and I still think it's a great idea even after considering that I was taking 8 different subjects at the time with an exam in each subject x 3, etc.... :) People really should stop making such a fuss and come to an understanding with each other. Language is a barrier and only by learning another's language is one able to overcome it :)
Many schools only have one language available, and every school in America pretty much has Spanish, so in some schools at least two years of Spanish actually is a requirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Invader
Meanwhile I don't know the specifics of the system throughout the U.S. but almost no one I know who took the required amount of years in any foreign language class in high school actually speaks the language with any type of proficiency. What you really ought to be pissed off about is that you're wasting two years of your life in a class that will ultimately attribute nothing of value to you since the odds are there is just enough Spanish around to make you wish you knew Spanish but not enough to get you ingrained in the language and actually proficient in it. Unless of course you come from a hispanic/latino family.
If anyone actually is interested in learning Spanish, btw, there is a site I frequent called SpanishDict which offers both inglés para hablantes de españoles and Spanish for English speakers.
According to the reasoning in the OP, all Americans should be required to learn
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