The 'imran-and-universal-mind-argue-irrelevantly' Thread!

I was thinking of the things a person would do for a basically infinite amount of money.

Here is the situation:

You must complete one of the following to receive 100 billion dollars.

(A) Push a button that kills a billion people randomly. (This might include you, or your family!)
(B) Murder your entire immediate family and best friends with a 100% guarantee that you’ll get away with it.
© Have an orgy with your immediate family that must last at least 5 hours. (No drugs or anything beforehand so you don't remember it)
(D) Spend 10 years in a tough prison like Chino state prison or Rykers Island.
(E) Cut of your own legs and eat them entirely (bone excluded). (No, you can't cook them.)

Or would you opt out not to take the money and not do any of these horrible things?



Myself, I'd go with option D. I'd look at it as a job I can retire from in 10 years (I'd be 25 by then) with a basically infinite amount of money. And I'd try not to get raped by an HIV-Positive inmate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FreshBrains

And I'd try not to get raped by an HIV-Positive inmate.
[/b]

---

you'd try not to but you probably would.

All those things are way to horrible to do. Except prison but a Max. Security prison like Chino scares me.

I'm happy with what i've got. :)

I would not kill any innocent people for my own personal gain, especially anybody in my family. Anybody who could actually enjoy life after doing that, even with 100 billion dollars, is a flat out sociopath. Nobody with a conscience would do that for any amount of money. I wouldn't be able to enjoy the 100 billion dollars after doing any of those things except the prison thing, which I would not choose. I would not throw away the next ten years of my life for any amount of money, especially when my life could be ruined permanently in that time. My legs are more important to me than money. An orgy with my family would wreck my life and theirs, so forget that one. I wouldn't consider any of those options for even two seconds.

However, short of destroying the lives of myself or the innocent and losing a substantial amount of my own life, I would do pretty much anything else for that money.

I think the real question is:

What would you do for a Klondike Bar?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ExoByte

I think the real question is:

What would you do for a Klondike Bar?[/b]

---

How many Klondike bars would that buy?

Money is the root of all evil. So if I did not perform an act to get that much money I would most likely end up doing bad things anyway.
So I vote no.

I guess my soul is more important than 100 billion dollars.. (I just couldn't live with myself if I performed some of those acts).

I would take a pass on the money.

Quote:

---

(A) Push a button that kills a billion people randomly. (This might include you, or your family!)[/b]

---

If it didn't include me, sure! I'd press it several times if I get paid double!

Quote:

---

(B) Murder your entire immediate family and best friends with a 100% guarantee that you’ll get away with it.[/b]

---

Sure.

Quote:

---

© Have an orgy with your immediate family that must last at least 5 hours. (No drugs or anything beforehand so you don't remember it)[/b]

---

Sure. (Do they remember it? Lawsuits these days mean a lot of money). And I can pay for the shrink if I need it afterwards.

Quote:

---

(D) Spend 10 years in a tough prison like Chino state prison or Rykers Island.[/b]

---

No. 10 years of my life is worth more than that.

Quote:

---

(E) Cut of your own legs and eat them entirely (bone excluded). (No, you can't cook them.)[/b]

---

No. The ability to move is worth more than that.

um i'd go with option 1.... the world is overpopulated anyway :P

No, actually faced with that choice I'd say no.

nope

I can tell what I would do for that much money however ...

Theres no point in having the money if you can't enjoy it, like cutting off your legs or having a family orgy or murder or being in prision. So that pretty much covers everything you said.

Errr.... by the way, if you actually possessed a magic button that killed a billion people, wouldn't it just be easier to ransom the world for amounts of money where 100 billion seems small. The USA alone doesn't look at 100 billion dollars and think "holy shit! that's way too much than we have!" (even though we are trillions in debt... we spend billions on the war all the time)

And those are kind of ridiculous "options" anyways.

The only one that is *kind of* not retarded is the prison one, but wouldn't you rather like... have a life?

I seriously wouldn't choose any of the options. Like someone mentioned whats the use of having the money if you simply cannot enjoy it.

(E) I'd buy myself a new pair...

Most of the questions aren't hard: I would not do Any of those things just for money.

However, if you think of it, you can cure world poverty with that money. Basically, I would do all those crappy things, and make the world a better place.

If I could just keep the money myself, and not give it away, I wouldn't do any of those things. If that doesn't make me sound as McGandhi, I don't know what does. :)

I would chose option A if I and my close ones were guaranteed survival. I don't care much for a billion unknown people. Besides, the World needs to be depopulated.

The only option I would consider would be the prison one. The reason is because I could tell everyone in prison that if they leave me alone, I will give each of them 1 million dollars If I get out alive, and if there is some people in there who I cannot pay because they are in for life then I would just promise more money to other people to protect me from them.

D or E, they do not have consequences on anyone other than myself. Think of it though, what kind of prosthetics or wheelchairs could 0.5% of that sum buy?

If I chose D, then I would be loosing 10 years of my life, to me those 10 years are extremely valueable, and im not sure I would be willing to give them up for anything.

And E, you would die from loss of blood.

I would choose B

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Redeyedwolfking

The only option I would consider would be the prison one. The reason is because I could tell everyone in prison that if they leave me alone, I will give each of them 1 million dollars If I get out alive, and if there is some people in there who I cannot pay because they are in for life then I would just promise more money to other people to protect me from them.[/b]

---

TRUE! I'd go for this option. Good thinking!

Option D, for sure.

I would go with C, D, and E, since, while perhaps traumatic...that's a crapload of money, and you'd be stupid not to. Plus, who needs legs when you can fund your own experimental projects for replacing legs (and I'm not big on moving anyways; not having legs would just give me an excuse to be a lazy ass).

~D-Draw

oh this ones easy. i would do the jail time in a heartbeat for that much money. no fuckin doubt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Howetzer

Money is the root of all evil.
[/b]

---

"The love of money is the root of all evil." (No offense... just wanted to point out this commonly mis-quoted phrase.)

I wouldn't take the money. I can make a difference in the world without 100 billion dollars. And as much as my mind says it's stupid, I think that no truer joy can come to you than from something you have accomplished yourself, without having to resort to wealth or power. There's more I'll leave unsaid, but you can fill in the blanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Redeyedwolfking

The only option I would consider would be the prison one. The reason is because I could tell everyone in prison that if they leave me alone, I will give each of them 1 million dollars If I get out alive, and if there is some people in there who I cannot pay because they are in for life then I would just promise more money to other people to protect me from them.
[/b]

---

would they beleive you?

I'd push the button.

no.

a better question would be... how much money would it take for you to kill a puppy with your bare hands?

so you say 100,000... why not 99,999??

now that question is more fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jacobo

a better question would be... how much money would it take for you to kill a puppy with your bare hands?
[/b]

---

No amount of money would get me to do that to an innocent puppy. A rotten, horrible adult dog, on the other hand... for free!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jacobo

However, if you think of it, you can cure world poverty with that money. Basically, I would do all those crappy things, and make the world a better place.

If I could just keep the money myself, and not give it away, I wouldn't do any of those things. If that doesn't make me sound as McGandhi, I don't know what does. :)
[/b]

---

Yeah, Ghandi would murder 1/6 of the world's population so a lot of people could have more money. He was humanitarian like that.

For those who said they would choose option A, how could you ever be happy again after murdering a billion people? How could you ever possibly be happy after knowingly, deliberately murdering just one innocent person for a selfish reason? Do you have a conscience about anything?

Here's a question... Would you overthrow a genocidal, terrorist, enemy government that had used weapons of mass destruction for terrorist purposes if they were reported by six other governments and the United Nations to have stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction if you strongly believed you would be creating a democracy in the heart of the Middle East that has a chance of growing over time into a successful and awesome ally country? Would you do this if you knew that 45,000+ innocent civilians would be killed by accidental crossfire and deliberate insurgent terrorism and 3,000+ of your own soldiers would die?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FreshBrains

(A) Push a button that kills a billion people randomly. (This might include you, or your family!)[/b]

---

Yep, there's only a 15% chance of it killing me
these are the best odds out of the whole lot

To everyone who said option A

HIEL HITLER??

all the options except D) or E)

thos elast two are simply a matter of priorities

IF i could pick which ten years I spent in prison id do it
ID go in when i was 60
come out when i was 70 and bloody well die
after having alifetime of riches =)
its bloody woth it
if i had to do the time now, id pick none of them
Imran

orgy 5 hours with my family. hahaha so lol but its worth it. I can afford a couple of hundred shrinks and psychologists etc to heal my mind :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

To everyone who said option A

HIEL HITLER??
[/b]

---

No. This is quite different.
Hitler exterminated because of hatred for races; This is completely unrelated.

Oh, and it's Heil, not Hiel.

Oh i Do apologise for my spelling =O
and yes obviously I wasnt drawing a perfect comparison
or else every person I was speaking to would ahve had to be German aswell and a Nazi
however,
the comparison likes in the fact that Hitler was a murderer who was more than happy to kill millions of people to further his own ambitions and ideologies
and that aspect is transferable
=)
Imran

it goes down to:

a) would you kill unrillated people??
b) related people
c) abomination
d) incaserate yourself with a chancve of good and a chance of bad?
e) harm yourself

this should tell a lot about who you are

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

Oh i Do apologise for my spelling =O
and yes obviously I wasnt drawing a perfect comparison
or else every person I was speaking to would ahve had to be German aswell and a Nazi
however,
the comparison likes in the fact that Hitler was a murderer who was more than happy to kill millions of people to further his own ambitions and ideologies
and that aspect is transferable
=)
Imran
[/b]

---

Yes, I didn't look at it that way. You're right.

Wouldn't stop me. Heck, nothing would stop me. You're going to try and kill me? I'll just mash the button a few times and BOOM you're dead! Why would I want 100 billion dollars when that button more than pays for itself, geez. I would really like a button that didn't kill me. I guess I could spend the 100 billion dollars inventing a better button.

Quote:

---

the comparison likes in the fact that Hitler was a murderer who was more than happy to kill millions of people to further his own ambitions and ideologies[/b]

---

Of course, America is willing to execute hundreds of people to further their own ambitions (a crime free world) and ideologies (that crime is bad). But they're not exactly Hitler.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaniaz

Wouldn't stop me. Heck, nothing would stop me. You're going to try and kill me? I'll just mash the button a few times and BOOM you're dead! Why would I want 100 billion dollars when that button more than pays for itself, geez.
[/b]

---

exactly,

1 billion if you push the button

how much will the rest of the world pay you not to push the button
10 billion
100 billion

the threat is all you need
no need to actually carry out any killing

so some of you would kill for money?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keeper

so some of you would kill for money?
[/b]

---

it would have to be an extortionate amount of money

But yes.

even the good people?

you could always go that one step further, and play God
"You will give me your eternal devotion & loyalty, or I'll make you suffer"

works suprisingly well

... what? I dont follow. How can you make them suffer?

would you kill good people?

ESPECIALLY the good people. They'd probably have more spirit and try to get the thing off you.

would you kill Gaundi? Or Einstain? Newton, Tesla, Tomas Edison, The man who pulled you out of the way of a car? the person who gave you there lunch at school because they wanted to help? What about the person who ...

do you see what I am saying?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keeper

would you kill Gaundi? Or Einstain? Newton, Tesla, Tomas Edison, The man who pulled you out of the way of a car? the person who gave you there lunch at school because they wanted to help? What about the person who ...

do you see what I am saying?
[/b]

---

Seeing as I've never heard of a Gaundi or an Einstain (what's that, a special kind of bloodstain?), yes.

hahaha kniaz u actually just supported my point
A comparison between hitler and bush is quite sensible
both of them, abused there postions to commit murder in the millions
they both had extensive propaganda campaigns, and were at time supported by the masses in there country
yes I owuld compare the Bush administration to the hitler one


and bloody hell, if u would kill for money, your no better than Saddam Hussein, and have no real right to suggest that he deserved to die
thats sick
And actually I bleeive the majprity of people who suggest they would push such a button are all mouth
faced with a real button
and the question
they wouldnt

not at all
if they would
you need seriously looking at


and dont include Einstien amongst - the good people
just because he was highly intelligent and did a lot for science doesnt make him a good person
what ghandi did made him a good person
ethics, morals, and virtues make someone " a good person"
not a talent like science


Imran

Quote:

---

and bloody hell, if u would kill for money, your no better than Saddam Hussein, and have no real right to suggest that he deserved to die
thats sick
And actually I bleeive the majprity of people who suggest they would push such a button are all mouth
faced with a real button
and the question
they wouldnt[/b]

---

You willing to put me to the test? $100 billion in escrow, please. (Better hope the escrow folks don't die).

lol, althogh I obviously cant
Yes Id be willing to test you
you wouldnt do it
Imran

that's a pretty big bluff you're pulling

play poker much? :bigteeth:

hahaha actually yeah all the time

and its me that thinks kaniaz is bluffing
and id be willing to call tht bluff
with any of you

Imran

the trick is to wave the button in front of everyone, and demand 10x the money to not push it

hell, pick a weak and jibbering hostage and get him to push the button, else you kill him painfully
(same chances, no matter who pushes it)

chances are very good you will get 10 billion, and no-one dies

I don't get what you're saying. How would you feel if you woke up to hear that a man had been willing to humour a terrorist who had that kind of power by giving him the detonator for, say, some nuclear bombs [which equates to the same thing as the button more or less] and saying, 'well then, let's see you do it?'.

Hitler would've been mad in that you totally made him look like a wuss: his holocaust would be a drop in the water. Gandhi would've shook his head and took the opportunity to expound the virtues of India. And Thomas Edison would've gone and flown a kite. At least, that's what they would've done if I hadn't pressed the button and killed them all (oops).

If not me, what's going to stop another guy? Seriously, a psychopath would do that in the blink of an eye. They're also quite good at pretending to have emotions (it's as easy as saying 'I'm feeling so sad right now'). And you're willing to even contemplate handing over the detonator like that? McJesus!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaniaz

I don't get it. So you're willing to toy with the lives of a billion people just to see if I'm bluffing or not? God, you heartless man!
[/b]

---

at least I'm in it just for the money

Quote:

---

at least I'm in it just for the money[/b]

---

God I know. Think of all the poultry you could buy: and all you've got to do is press a button. It's easier than your average gameshow, with a higher payoff! And boy do I love poultry.

hahaha, as sooon as i said it I knew that point would be made
okay i was wrong i wouldnt really give anyone that chance,
but i 100% dont believe you'd do it
is that better?
Imran

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaniaz

Hitler would've been mad in that you totally made him look like a wuss: his holocaust would be a drop in the water.[/b]

---

I disagree, he targeted a specific portion of the population. This button is totally random, so by definition not racist/prejudice, making it less of an atrosity. It's kinda like a viral epidemic or something. Sure it's a lot of people....but in a hundred years they'll all be dead anyways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

A comparison between hitler and bush is quite sensible
both of them, abused there postions to commit murder in the millions
[/b]

---

So now it's up to "millions"? I stopped taking people seriously when they started throwing around "600,000". At least that figure is posted on left wing hate blogs. Since you are now talking about Bush, what are your yes/no answers to these questions...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

Would you overthrow a genocidal, terrorist, enemy government that had used weapons of mass destruction for terrorist purposes if they were reported by six other governments and the United Nations to have stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction if you strongly believed you would be creating a democracy in the heart of the Middle East that has a chance of growing over time into a successful and awesome ally country? Would you do this if you knew that 45,000+ innocent civilians would be killed by accidental crossfire and deliberate insurgent terrorism and 3,000+ of your own soldiers would die?
[/b]

---

Remember... Those are yes/no questions. They are about choosing very specific options just like the ones in the initial post. If you want to express disagreement with how that scenario is supposedly out of sync with the Iraq war, then please do it after you answer the questions. What I illustrated is what I honestly believe to be the case, so your answer will be very interesting to me. Thanks.

Are we not hijacking there thread here
i do believe me and you had a thread going on
we were debating american foregin policy
you asked me to tell you wether i appreciated all the good Americans ahd done?
i answered your questions
i responded with my own
I do believe im still waiting for a response
lets not hijack there thread and make it a pro-bush/anti-bush thread
and ok millions is an exaggeration
but you have to count afghanistan,
and Iraq
and even Lebanon- because he was the only one not to call for the ceasefire
but yeh, go find the topic and respond in there
we had a debate in progress
Imran

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

Are we not hijacking there thread here
i do believe me and you had a thread going on
[..]
but yeh, go find the topic and respond in there
we had a debate in progress
Imran
[/b]

---

Welcome to Dreamviews. The thread was already hijacked by both of you the minute you started comparing the button with Hitler and Bush.

Congratulations and welcome to our world, where serious threads don't hold out long.

As a matter of fact,
looking back over this thread
where did he get that quote from?
I dont rember comparing bush and hitler anywhere in this thread?
maybe I did, but I cant find it
:?
what page was it on?
if i ddint seems i didnt hijack the thread?
if i did,
well. sorry
Imran

EDIT: oops I did make that comparison
after kaniaz compared hitler 2 bush =)
and I justified the comparison?

I wasn't blaming you for anything. It just happens on Dreamviews. That's all there is to it. Better get used to it. ;)

hahaha fair enough.
i'll let the thread continue anyways and stay out of it =)
Imran

Quote:

---

I disagree, he targeted a specific portion of the population. This button is totally random, so by definition not racist/prejudice, making it less of an atrosity. It's kinda like a viral epidemic or something. Sure it's a lot of people....but in a hundred years they'll all be dead anyways.[/b]

---

That's true, but I don't see how a hundred million Jews dying should be any more (or less) atrocious than a hundred randomly selected people, not really.

I could say that I just have a prejudice against the entire world, I suppose. Just because I'm selecting who I'm killing doesn't exactly make me that much more cold hearted of a killer. Some might say that because I'm not selecting who I kill specifically it means I care less and THAT's more cold-hearted. Pretty much an objective point, I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

As a matter of fact,
looking back over this thread
where did he get that quote from?
I dont rember comparing bush and hitler anywhere in this thread?
maybe I did, but I cant find it
:?
what page was it on?
if i ddint seems i didnt hijack the thread?
if i did,
well. sorry
Imran

EDIT: oops I did make that comparison
after kaniaz compared hitler 2 bush =)
and I justified the comparison?
[/b]

---

A yes/no answer would have been a great deal more brief than all of that dodge material. You stuck your neck out with absurd points of hate, so I asked you a simple question. You did not justify your comparison, so I called you out on it. Now you are running away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

but yeh, go find the topic and respond in there
we had a debate in progress
[/b]

---

What? Nice subject change. I asked you weeks ago in another thread if you appreciate the good my country has done after you bashed us with extreme venom. You FINALLY answered the question, and I thought that was it. What debate was in progress? Did you ask me if I am against the bad my country has done? I don't recall that, but the answer would be, "Yes." I think the War on Drugs is horrible, and I am not sure about how North Vietnam should have been handled, for two examples. Also, I am extremely liberal socially, so go figure. But you don't live here, and you talk as though we are the only country that matters in your life. If your rotten obsession with us continues, my questions will continue. But the obsession factor alone is something we take as a compliment. It is only the rotten aspect of the flattering obsession I am questioning you on. Now, what are your answers to the questions that this part of the conversation was meant to avoid?

no im sory, it wasnt me avoiding it
and no I dont ahve an obssession with YOUR country as you put it
I did not bring america into this topic
kaniaz did
I compared the people supporting the button-pushing with Hitler
He then compared hitler with Bush
I did not actually want to turn this into a big political discussion
in response to your question


yes


however, u portray an angelic view of the invasion

the war was ILLEGAL, we debated this point before, but it quite categorically was
while discussions were stil lbeing held, the US showed blatant contempt for the UN and started a full scale war

my figure is pro-portinate to all the actions that Bush ahs been behind or contributed to,
it is also exaggerated which i accept.

Saddam was not genocidal, he was a ruthless dictator, who whilst others were compagaining against the US was supporting.
He tortuerd anybody that he thought was an imediate threat to his regime, including islamic extremists

the chemical weapons that it DID use,
were weapon sold by Ronald fuckin Raegan
also one of the greatest war criminals in history.

i assure you, your arrogance has clouded your thinking, I am not obsessed with your country
I detest its foreign policy,
I am big fan of certain parts of American culture

the US means no more or les to me than any other country it does however, seem to crop up in conversation more, as it is the worlds only current super-power and is busy rampagin around the world bombing people =)

now, if the Iraq "war" was as simple as the picture you posted
Yes
Im with you
but its not
WE were i nthe progress iof having a debate i'll think you'll find
we were discussing the the last shah of Iran and SAVAK?
and all the other corrupt, oppresive regimes the US has supported in its time.

Imran

I chalked up the (for lack of a better example) American "executing a serial-killer/mass-murderer/etc is right" ideology to your statement that to "kill people to further your ideology is being like Hitler", in order to show that I didn't believe your statement was without flaws. I don't believe that there's any link at all between Hitler and that American POV, which was precisely why I compared the two.

I did not compare Bush to Hitler first - and would not in any other way than to say "what?!". The first post mentioning Bush is yours:

Quote:

---

A comparison between hitler and bush is quite sensible
both of them, abused there postions to commit murder in the millions
they both had extensive propaganda campaigns, and were at time supported by the masses in there country
yes I owuld compare the Bush administration to the hitler one[/b]

---

Being as the word "Bush" has also not appeared in any single one of my posts in this thread until now, and as I've just shown, you were actually the first guy to bring up the comparison, one can only wonder.

hitler firebombed the reichstag and bllamed it on insurgents
bush felled the towers and blamed it on terrwrists
they both invaded the countries of supposed blame
its not a comparison its a carbon copy.
and if you dont believe that it confirms the international stereotype of the infinite stupidity of the average american.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 888

hitler firebombed the reichstag and bllamed it on insurgents
bush felled the towers and blamed it on terrwrists
they both invaded the countries of supposed blame
its not a comparison its a carbon copy.
and if you dont believe that it confirms the international stereotype of the infinite stupidity of the average american.
[/b]

---

And back to the topic

Christ, this place is full of lefties
push the damn button

id impose martial law, impose sanctions on any nation who didnt comply, manipulate the media, bomb my own country, invade the countries with most resources, worship a giant stone owl, suck donald rumsfelds cock, join a shady satanist college sect, employ a nazi aubergine, not listen to my congress or my people, invest in companies and contract them to steal oil and look like a chimp, oh and murder at least 1 million people,
that should about do it -hey presto 100 gazillion dollars and i dont even need a basic human grasp of the english language!
hang on someone got there first.

lefties ? what decade you living in?
im no leftie mate just not a sheep.

None of the above.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

Saddam was not genocidal, he was a ruthless dictator, who whilst others were compagaining against the US was supporting.
He tortuerd anybody that he thought was an imediate threat to his regime, including islamic extremists

the chemical weapons that it DID use,
were weapon sold by Ronald fuckin Raegan
also one of the greatest war criminals in history.

i assure you, your arrogance has clouded your thinking, I am not obsessed with your country
[/b]

---

Oh, okay. But I will believe you more when you stop showing so much damn obsession.

(broken record alert) Alliance is not synonymous with full support. Did we "support" our ENEMY the Soviet Union when we saved your ass by allying with them against the Nazis? Of course not. And even if allying with the Hussein regime against Iran was proof of "support", how does that make us any safer in 2003? By the way, Reagan saved your ass too. How widespread is communism in the world today? Exactly.

I explained our position with the Shah of Iran. I talked about how it related to the Cold War, which you are DAMN lucky we won. I said that we might have done some things that now seem like mistakes, such as putting so much into British intelligence, but hindsight is 20/20. The bottom line is that we won the Cold War. War is Hell, especially when it is a fight to save the world.

My illustration was not "angelic". I talked about the horrible number of innocents who have died. It is much less than the tens of millions that died in the very, very necessary World War II, but it is horrible. How is it "angelic"?

Your hatred for my country makes me appear arrogant. I am just pointing out your hateful obsession. If you don't see it, it is because your intellectual dishonesty is clouding your thinking.

I only think of myself as an Earthling until people like you just can't get enough of dogging my country. Then I have to stand up and start pointing out the truth. You might want to consider chilling out with your hate speech.

Universal, I odnt know how many times I will ahve to say this
I do NOT hate your country
and dont get me started syaing hitler saved my ass, im not even frickin british,
back then my ancestors were in India.
the only reason im in the country now is becuase the imperalists British took over India and robbed the country blind
You may have saved Britains ass, because they were that bloody incompetent at dealing with Hitler, pah, appeasement
Winston Curchill can shove his appeasement up his arse,
dont begin to msitake me for British patriot
Im not patriotic to any country, no country is MY country
I despise the corrup capitalist way that India is run
I detest the puppet in charge of the country that Im living in.
I do not hate your country, I hate its foreign policy,
I have nothing against the vast majority of its people
And that was differnt, Hitler was ramgaging around Europe like a mad man with moustache
Iran was a threat to noody when you decided to support the disgusting Baathist regime in Iraq,
I am not lucky you won the cold war,
Look at my bloody signature
you'll probably find that I supported the USSR
and that its demise is the greatest tragedy in modern histroy,
if it were stil about today, we would not be discussing the US rampaging around the world expanding its captialistic society and the "FREE MARKET"
lets not turn this into a discussion regarding the merits and de-merits of a Marxist society


i assure you it is not hate speech
if it was ahte speech it would be along the lines of, I hate americans, fuckin americans

you dont no how many people come out with lines like that,
Living in Britain there are a hell of a lot of people that make racist comments regarding Americans,
and wether you choose to beleive me or not, whenver a mate of mine makes a comment to that effect
we have a full scale argument
I tell them not to be so bigoted and that they dont udenrstand all the good things America has done for the rest of the world
They argue the same points im arguing, Iraq, Iran, the Contras, Afghanistan
I then hae to point out that Britain has been a counterpart in pracitcally every action
and in Iran it was Britian that mislead the US.
But none of this takes away from the fact that I detest the countries current administration.

Seriously, stop branding me as a bigot, and a hater of all things and people American
I have clearly stated my stance multiple times
Imran

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 888

hitler firebombed the reichstag and bllamed it on insurgents
bush felled the towers and blamed it on terrwrists
they both invaded the countries of supposed blame
its not a comparison its a carbon copy.
and if you dont believe that it confirms the international stereotype of the infinite stupidity of the average american.
[/b]

---

Those are some pretty heavy accusements you've got there son.
As far as I recall, nothing has ever been proven in the 9/11 case, so in this case those statements are invalid.

888 has a habit of turning things into a discussiion regarding the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 =)
Imran

So I have seen.

I think the only thing that was proven in the 9/11 case is that some people (somehow) believe their own government is capable of silencing the entire country in one grand conspiracy. That's obviously not true, but heck, those people scare me anyway.

None of us really KNOW who was behind it, we can beleive whatever the government tells us
we can pretend we know exaclty who did it, and it was all Bush (lol)
we blame the zionists
but tbh, none of us really know
obviously 888 thinks he does, but hey, arrogance is human nature
=)
Imran

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

Universal, I odnt know how many times I will ahve to say this
I do NOT hate your country
[/b]

---

That sounds nice, but when you talk about how Bush is like Hitler, you ARE insulting my country because the majority of American voters voted to keep Bush in office. Think about it. There are plenty of atrocious governments to go off about, ones that have done absolutely zero good for the world. I'd be interested in seeing how you repeatedly insult them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

888 has a habit of turning things into a discussiion regarding the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 =)
[/b]

---

888 knocked down the towers.

But seriously, when 888 shows that he knows how to stay on point and speak coherently in a dialogue, he will have a tiny spec of added credibility in talking about unfounded conspiracy theories.

You completely ignored the vast majority of my post
but, in repsonse to the meagre bit you did say
just listen to yourslef
In nazi Germany, practically everyobdy votewd for hitler
Do I think low of them germans of course not
Propganda is a tool, a powerful one
and you have been victimzed and fell prey to it
those Americans who voted to keep in him in office, well, a great deal I beleive would ahve voted otherwise with a good opposition, and actually at the current time, (which is waht we are discussing) the Bush's popularity has hit a new low,
In an interview he admitted his popularity was very low in the country at the moment
they dont like him
and that is due to the intellect of the American people
and those who do like him
have conviced themsleves, and are too stubborn to see otherwise
There ARE plenty of other governments that do ntohing for the world, and that are insanely corrupt
the next time one of them wages a full scale war that I comeptlely disagree with and if the war as ilegal, making the rulers of the country war criminals, I will comment o nthat matter
If somebody starts talking to me about the merits and de-merits of the current British rule, i'll give my opinion
same with North Korea
or India
or Cuba
I think you get the picture
because of the US status as sole superpower, and the current war/s they are obviously more often brought into conversatiopn


and yes 888 rants and offers no reasoning, no logic
i perosnally do think there was more to the attack than the average joe is told
personally I think the Zionists had sometihng to do with it, but thats a separate issue

Imran

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

You completely ignored the vast majority of my post
but, in repsonse to the meagre bit you did say
just listen to yourslef
In nazi Germany, practically everyobdy votewd for hitler
Do I think low of them germans of course not
Propganda is a tool, a powerful one
and you have been victimzed and fell prey to it
those Americans who voted to keep in him in office, well, a great deal I beleive would ahve voted otherwise with a good opposition, and actually at the current time, (which is waht we are discussing) the Bush's popularity has hit a new low,
In an interview he admitted his popularity was very low in the country at the moment
they dont like him
and that is due to the intellect of the American people
and those who do like him
have conviced themsleves, and are too stubborn to see otherwise
There ARE plenty of other governments that do ntohing for the world, and that are insanely corrupt
the next time one of them wages a full scale war that I comeptlely disagree with and if the war as ilegal, making the rulers of the country war criminals, I will comment o nthat matter
If somebody starts talking to me about the merits and de-merits of the current British rule, i'll give my opinion
same with North Korea
or India
or Cuba
I think you get the picture
because of the US status as sole superpower, and the current war/s they are obviously more often brought into conversatiopn
and yes 888 rants and offers no reasoning, no logic
i perosnally do think there was more to the attack than the average joe is told
personally I think the Zionists had sometihng to do with it, but thats a separate issue

Imran
[/b]

---

You ignored a lot of what I said and then said too much for me to comment on in a thread where we are off topic. Didn't you say something about wanting to get back on topic?

We knew damn well what Bush did when we elected him the second time. The Germans did not know what they were getting into when they elected Hitler. If they did, then I would be insulting them when I say that Hitler is one of the top five most evil people who has ever lived.

You picked a few arbitrary accusations against the U.S. and said that when somebody else does those things you will complain. Is Iran's terrorist funding not enough for you? What about their leader's vow to completely wipe out Israel? Is North Korea's horrible domestic situation and horrifying foreign policy not enough? Is China's abyss level human rights state not enough? How about Sudan's genocide? What about Al Qaeda's attacks here, in Europe, and in Africa? What do you think of Al Qaeda's publicly expressed desire/plan to kill all 300 million Americans and everybody in Israel? Those are some matters you can comment on. Try to show even more passion when you talk about them. I challenge you.

By the way, my friend, you can make your posts much shorter. You are perfectly welcome to make your lines go all the way to the right. It saves computer space. :idea:

Firs tof all, I'll make my post however I see fit until told otherwise by a moderater or admin?
I tend it to find its easier on the eyes and ecoruages people to actually read it.

NUmber one. We are not duscissuing, al-Qaeda, if your asking me if im agianst Al-Qaeda
I regard them as some of the msot digusting, people on this earth.
Terrorists are the scum of thhis earth, and you will enver see me defend al-Qaeda
I rarely find a debate or discussion, where the opposing side is respresenting a pro-al-Qaeda view,
iassure you the next time I do, I will imemdiately being to debate furiously with them.

Number two. I 100% disagree with the way that Iran is ruled, as an Islamic Reupbulic and women have low rights, obviouisly, the revolution was down to the disgusting way that the Last Shah of Iran ran his country, with his infamous savak. weve been over this, its a direct results of a puppets disgusting regime
and he was replaced with the Islamic Repulbic of Iran
Mossadeq, hwopever, was a strong leader, promoting a forward thinking, forwad moving Iran.
obviously thats no good if hes nationalsitiong the countries oil.

Number 3
North Korea, dont get me started. Another disgraceful stain on the sheet of Marxism. First we had Stalin giving us an awful name, now weve got bloody Kim Jong-Il, doing the same thing. i wish tey'd stop
nope I detest him


basically im showing you, that if these were topics of covnersation ,I would psot them views
but it seems to me, that whenver we debate, you avoiid my points entirely and then challenge me to do something i would be all too willing to do if it was a point of covnersation
First it was admitting all the great things the USA have ever done.
Then its critizcising other countries governments.
You seem to have misjudged me entirely as a man who supports terrorism
I detest terrorism
even more than I detest your beloved masked imperialism.
My accusations were not arbitrary they were well founded claims and historical claims that you repeatedly avoid.



But no, thats where your wrong, polls show if there was en election now, Bush would ahve the very smallet chance of retaining his position,
after the msitrakes and lies and msitakes
the people no longer trust him
especially now, after his appalling descion to sedn MORE troops
MORE
PAH
Imran

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal

That sounds nice, but when you talk about how Bush is like Hitler, you ARE insulting my country...
[/b]

---

I have absolutely no intention of getting involved with this discussion, but I'm slightly offended by that, UM. :P

Spilled milk, though. Carry on. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal

By the way, my friend, you can make your posts much shorter. You are perfectly welcome to make your lines go all the way to the right. It saves computer space. :idea:
[/b]

---

Alright. No offense, but LOL!! WTF!?
Furthermore, LOL! WTH!?

This argument is funny. :)

Quote:

---

I tend it to find its easier on the eyes and ecoruages people to actually read it.[/b]

---

No...no, it just makes me cringe. But it's nowhere near as bad as it could be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaniaz

No...no, it just makes me cringe. But it's nowhere near as bad as it could be.
[/b]

---

I'll rephrase it,
I find it easier on my eyes when reading back
and inconsiderate as I am, I fail to take Kaniaz' opinion into account =(
Imran

I wouldn't do any of them, D. sounds like the easiest (for me) but it'd be unlikely that I'd come out alive and/or not need extreme psycho-theraphy afterwards... And killing would have been my choice if it was just one of my family members, I'd hate to lose the rest (and that is one big family to kill)

haha aud hoenslty kill one of ur amily embmers
jeez thts a lot hate
thtas a lot of missed birthdays
Imran

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

Firs tof all, I'll make my post however I see fit until told otherwise by a moderater or admin?
I tend it to find its easier on the eyes and ecoruages people to actually read it.

NUmber one. We are not duscissuing, al-Qaeda, if your asking me if im agianst Al-Qaeda
I regard them as some of the msot digusting, people on this earth.
Terrorists are the scum of thhis earth, and you will enver see me defend al-Qaeda
I rarely find a debate or discussion, where the opposing side is respresenting a pro-al-Qaeda view,
iassure you the next time I do, I will imemdiately being to debate furiously with them.

Number two. I 100% disagree with the way that Iran is ruled, as an Islamic Reupbulic and women have low rights, obviouisly, the revolution was down to the disgusting way that the Last Shah of Iran ran his country, with his infamous savak. weve been over this, its a direct results of a puppets disgusting regime
and he was replaced with the Islamic Repulbic of Iran
Mossadeq, hwopever, was a strong leader, promoting a forward thinking, forwad moving Iran.
obviously thats no good if hes nationalsitiong the countries oil.

Number 3
North Korea, dont get me started. Another disgraceful stain on the sheet of Marxism. First we had Stalin giving us an awful name, now weve got bloody Kim Jong-Il, doing the same thing. i wish tey'd stop
nope I detest him
basically im showing you, that if these were topics of covnersation ,I would psot them views
but it seems to me, that whenver we debate, you avoiid my points entirely and then challenge me to do something i would be all too willing to do if it was a point of covnersation
First it was admitting all the great things the USA have ever done.
Then its critizcising other countries governments.
You seem to have misjudged me entirely as a man who supports terrorism
I detest terrorism
even more than I detest your beloved masked imperialism.
My accusations were not arbitrary they were well founded claims and historical claims that you repeatedly avoid.
But no, thats where your wrong, polls show if there was en election now, Bush would ahve the very smallet chance of retaining his position,
after the msitrakes and lies and msitakes
the people no longer trust him
especially now, after his appalling descion to sedn MORE troops
MORE
PAH
Imran
[/b]

---

How closely do you read my posts? It is almost as if I am arguing with a fictional character I am watching on television. I didn't say that making your posts outrageously longer than they would be if you would change the format is not up to you. I was making a suggestion. Are you paranoid or something? But it looks like you took my suggestion to a major extent any way. Cool. Also, what is this crap about how I "avoid" your "points entirely"? I talked even in this very thread about the basis for the overthrow of Mossadeq and additional details, the lack of comparison between Bush and Hitler, the nature of your bias, the connections between Americans and our government, and the other stuff you brought up. I directly countered your points. I also never said that you support terrorists. Are you okay? Saying that you are more obsessed with us than terrorists, which you are (Imagine ALL you would have said if somebody challenged you to go off about the United States with extreme passion. Get it?), I am not saying you support terrorists. I am saying that violence and take over are not what your major problems with the United States actually are. If they were, you would not be so biased. Our level of power and success seems to ruffle the shit out of feathers all over the world. Our whatever level of evil that is there is far exceeded by many governments and powerful organizations. But whom do Europeans in way too many cases center their lives around bitching about? That is bias, and I know why it exists.

What else... What other ongoing, fine details about my country did you bring up? American imperialism. Yeah, Afghanistan is about to become the 51st state, and Iraq will be the 52nd. Just like we took over Western Europe after we saved it. If we had been communist, things would have been different. Communism is unfair imposition and thievery, by the way. It is one of the sickest forms of imperialism. Do you hate our government elected by us because we stopped communism from spreading all over the world? Well, I'm proud of it. What communist governments are still around and doing wonderful things every day? Cuba? North Korea? North Vietnam? China? Which one of those do you love the most? None of them? Communism sucks. And we will always be here to make sure it spreads to absolutely nowhere. Sorry to disappoint you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

Alright. No offense, but LOL!! WTF!?
Furthermore, LOL! WTH!?

This argument is funny. :)
[/b]

---

Not an argument. A suggestion. Do you see how much space I usually have to take up just to quote that guy? Reading his posts is like watching two professional tennis players going at it on a four inch court. But notice how I didn't say that it is not up to him. He didn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

I have absolutely no intention of getting involved with this discussion, but I'm slightly offended by that, UM. :P
[/b]

---

Come again? Saying the American people are being insulted when somebody they elected twice is equated with Hitler is offensive? If you disagree, I would like to know why, and I am not at all sure why you would be offended by my point. Or is it that you are offended by the comparison between Hitler and somebody who was elected twice by the American people, the second time after which he did the things that are claimed to be Hitler like?

D.

Because everything else is just freakin' disgusting. >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal

How closely do you read my posts? It is almost as if I am arguing with a fictional character I am watching on television. I didn't say that making your posts outrageously longer than they would be if you would change the format is not up to you. I was making a suggestion. Are you paranoid or something? But it looks like you took my suggestion to a major extent any way. Cool. Also, what is this crap about how I "avoid" your "points entirely"? I talked even in this very thread about the basis for the overthrow of Mossadeq and additional details, the lack of comparison between Bush and Hitler, the nature of your bias, the connections between Americans and our government, and the other stuff you brought up. I directly countered your points. I also never said that you support terrorists. Are you okay? Saying that you are more obsessed with us than terrorists, which you are (Imagine ALL you would have said if somebody challenged you to go off about the United States with extreme passion. Get it?), I am not saying you support terrorists. I am saying that violence and take over are not what your major problems with the United States actually are. If they were, you would not be so biased. Our level of power and success seems to ruffle the shit out of feathers all over the world. Our whatever level of evil that is there is far exceeded by many governments and powerful organizations. But whom do Europeans in way too many cases center their lives around bitching about? That is bias, and I know why it exists.

What else... What other ongoing, fine details about my country did you bring up? American imperialism. Yeah, Afghanistan is about to become the 51st state, and Iraq will be the 52nd. Just like we took over Western Europe after we saved it. If we had been communist, things would have been different. Communism is unfair imposition and thievery, by the way. It is one of the sickest forms of imperialism. Do you hate our government elected by us because we stopped communism from spreading all over the world? Well, I'm proud of it. What communist governments are still around and doing wonderful things every day? Cuba? North Korea? North Vietnam? China? Which one of those do you love the most? None of them? Communism sucks. And we will always be here to make sure it spreads to absolutely nowhere. Sorry to disappoint you.
Not an argument. A suggestion. Do you see how much space I usually have to take up just to quote that guy? Reading his posts is like watching two professional tennis players going at it on a four inch court. But notice how I didn't say that it is not up to him. He didn't.
Come again? Saying the American people are being insulted when somebody they elected twice is equated with Hitler is offensive? If you disagree, I would like to know why, and I am not at all sure why you would be offended by my point. Or is it that you are offended by the comparison between Hitler and somebody who was elected twice by the American people, the second time after which he did the things that are claimed to be Hitler like?
[/b]

---

I once again re-iterate to you Universal Mind, that I need not protest against the abhorrent bahviour of Islamic extremists. Society has judged them i nthe same way I would. If a eprson came to me, and he argued pro-terrorism, which as happend once before, i assure you our debate was far mroe heated and far more passionate than this. Universal, your main problem is that you see it as YOUR country as you ahve stated so many times. You are a patriot, no matter the actions of your country youwill subconciounsly feel obligated to defend there actions. Your patriotic nature is blinding you.

I cant beleive you actually denied that Iraq and Afghanistan are blatant imperailstic wars. Lets draw a comparison shall we.

The Manchurian crisis, i suppose you know about the bombing of the railways, and then the invasion of Manchuria by Japan.
Regardless of the fact after the invasion the Japanese leadres installed a puppet government under last the emperor of China, Puyi, it has still been seen by history as an act of imperalism. And it is the same with these wars, setting up a puppet government proves nothing. Whatsoever. ITs still imperalism. Iraq belong sto the US wether you'll admit it or not.
Its oil reserves, its national secuirty, all in the hands of the USA.

Now wether you bleieve me or not, it is these actions that cause me to have problems with American foreign policy. The fact that it prevented Communisms spreading is a cuase of distress and a cuase of joy for me.
I detest the way they went about it, the Vietnam war for a starter.
And as much as Americans claim the cold war was a duirect result of the Soviets expansionism into Eastern Europe, IT wasnt.
The US post-war foreign policy was despicable, every step they made was a step to turn the world into a capitalist frontier safe for America's market and investment expansion.
Starting with the atomic bominb og Hiroshima and Nagasaki, There was only one reason for that attack, a message to the USSR. We are in charge, and we have this power. It was direct threat, a bold statement relating to the political conditiong of the world after the war.
Then we have the policy of containment expressed in the truman doctrine.
American politicians, fearful of a loss of markets in Europe, exaggerated the threat of world domination from the Soviet Union. The war was not about protecting the people of eastern europe, it was about the US economy. And then we have vietnam, pah, nothing more than American asserting its dominance.
Liberating, jeez if i had a quid for every time the US or Britain have used that pretence.
Now if yo uactually want to discuss the pros and cons of a marxist society feel free to create a thread.
When it coems to robberry system. Well youve just defined capitalism. A robbery system designed to rob off the working man every single day. i assume you are comfortable with the labour theory of value as advocated by Marx?
Its all there.
Capitalism is robbery.
I do not claim to be a genius, and I do not support a full blown MArixst-Leninist society.
However, capitalism is robbery.
The asnwer lies in democratic Socialism
Im not tlaking about the wish washy bollacks that is often called socialism All these socail democrats.
And yes North korea is a dsigrace
but dotng et me started on Cuba. the only reason it is not what it could be is because of the US embargo impoverishing its people. Another one of the US crimes.
and CHina, oh gee, I am glad that they blew that space satellite up
This is the rise ofa new superpower.
No longer shall the United States of America feel free to rampage around the globe like a bully on a playground.
since 1991 the United States has been on the only big kid on this playground.
Now weve got China
=D
im so bloody happy, its about time.
15 years of pure American dominace, about to end.
They can disregard the Uniet Nations yes
But soon they will not be able to disregard the militar power of China.

Now if you want to discuss MArixt-Leninism as theory, you go ahead and make a thread.
Im sure it will make for intersting discussion
and pelase if you do, dont refer to the failings of the USSR under that facist bastard Stalin.
That was Stalinism, NOT Marxism

Imran

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal

Come again? Saying the American people are being insulted when somebody they elected twice is equated with Hitler is offensive? If you disagree, I would like to know why, and I am not at all sure why you would be offended by my point. Or is it that you are offended by the comparison between Hitler and somebody who was elected twice by the American people, the second time after which he did the things that are claimed to be Hitler like?
[/b]

---

Simple: Because, regardless of whether or not the comparison is fair, you are imply that the percentage of people that didn't vote for him don't fit into the catagory of "American People."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Simple: Because, regardless of whether or not the comparison is fair, you are imply that the percentage of people that didn't vote for him don't fit into the catagory of "American People."
[/b]

---

If you will look back, I used the word "majority". In the post you are referring to, I just said "American people" because that term is used figuratively to mean a majority in terms of an election. I was not saying that Bush got 100% of the vote.

I understand that. My point is that when you say "you're insulting my country," what you mean to say is "you're insulting the American Majority that, at the time, elected and re-elected Bush." Saying that that is an insult to "our country" is a bit misleading because, being a part of this country, there are still a lot of Americans that happen to agree with the similarities.
I know it's simply a matter of technicality, but I just don't agree with your choice of words. That's all. ;) I know what you mean though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I understand that. My point is that when you say "you're insulting my country," what you mean to say is "you're insulting the American Majority that, at the time, elected and re-elected Bush." Saying that that is an insult to "our country" is a bit misleading because, being a part of this country, there are still a lot of Americans that happen to agree with the similarities.
I know it's simply a matter of technicality, but I just don't agree with your choice of words. That's all. ;) I know what you mean though.
[/b]

---

I see what you're saying, but I stand by my point that Imran is insulting the United States period when he says that it is a country where the majority of voters voted to keep a Hitler in office after he did his supposed Hitler stuff. That is why when people constantly go off and throw around the words "America" and "United States" and say the worst things imaginable regarding those terms, it is not enough for them to then say, "Oh, uh, but I, I wasn't talking about the people." We run the government, so the people are being talked about when those words are used. But it is true that nobody in office was put there by every single person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

I once again re-iterate to you Universal Mind, that I need not protest against the abhorrent bahviour of Islamic extremists. Society has judged them i nthe same way I would. If a eprson came to me, and he argued pro-terrorism, which as happend once before, i assure you our debate was far mroe heated and far more passionate than this. Universal, your main problem is that you see it as YOUR country as you ahve stated so many times. You are a patriot, no matter the actions of your country youwill subconciounsly feel obligated to defend there actions. Your patriotic nature is blinding you.

I cant beleive you actually denied that Iraq and Afghanistan are blatant imperailstic wars. Lets draw a comparison shall we.

The Manchurian crisis, i suppose you know about the bombing of the railways, and then the invasion of Manchuria by Japan.
Regardless of the fact after the invasion the Japanese leadres installed a puppet government under last the emperor of China, Puyi, it has still been seen by history as an act of imperalism. And it is the same with these wars, setting up a puppet government proves nothing. Whatsoever. ITs still imperalism. Iraq belong sto the US wether you'll admit it or not.
Its oil reserves, its national secuirty, all in the hands of the USA.

Now wether you bleieve me or not, it is these actions that cause me to have problems with American foreign policy. The fact that it prevented Communisms spreading is a cuase of distress and a cuase of joy for me.
I detest the way they went about it, the Vietnam war for a starter.
And as much as Americans claim the cold war was a duirect result of the Soviets expansionism into Eastern Europe, IT wasnt.
The US post-war foreign policy was despicable, every step they made was a step to turn the world into a capitalist frontier safe for America's market and investment expansion.
Starting with the atomic bominb og Hiroshima and Nagasaki, There was only one reason for that attack, a message to the USSR. We are in charge, and we have this power. It was direct threat, a bold statement relating to the political conditiong of the world after the war.
Then we have the policy of containment expressed in the truman doctrine.
American politicians, fearful of a loss of markets in Europe, exaggerated the threat of world domination from the Soviet Union. The war was not about protecting the people of eastern europe, it was about the US economy. And then we have vietnam, pah, nothing more than American asserting its dominance.
Liberating, jeez if i had a quid for every time the US or Britain have used that pretence.
Now if yo uactually want to discuss the pros and cons of a marxist society feel free to create a thread.
When it coems to robberry system. Well youve just defined capitalism. A robbery system designed to rob off the working man every single day. i assume you are comfortable with the labour theory of value as advocated by Marx?
Its all there.
Capitalism is robbery.
I do not claim to be a genius, and I do not support a full blown MArixst-Leninist society.
However, capitalism is robbery.
The asnwer lies in democratic Socialism
Im not tlaking about the wish washy bollacks that is often called socialism All these socail democrats.
And yes North korea is a dsigrace
but dotng et me started on Cuba. the only reason it is not what it could be is because of the US embargo impoverishing its people. Another one of the US crimes.
and CHina, oh gee, I am glad that they blew that space satellite up
This is the rise ofa new superpower.
No longer shall the United States of America feel free to rampage around the globe like a bully on a playground.
since 1991 the United States has been on the only big kid on this playground.
Now weve got China
=D
im so bloody happy, its about time.
15 years of pure American dominace, about to end.
They can disregard the Uniet Nations yes
But soon they will not be able to disregard the militar power of China.

Now if you want to discuss MArixt-Leninism as theory, you go ahead and make a thread.
Im sure it will make for intersting discussion
and pelase if you do, dont refer to the failings of the USSR under that facist bastard Stalin.
That was Stalinism, NOT Marxism

Imran
[/b]

---

You are leaping to conclusions once again. You ASSUME that I am some blind patriot who thinks my government never does anything bad. Your assumptive behavior is what lands you in such illogical territory. Did you not read the post in this thread where I was talking to YOU and I mentioned things my government has done that I disagree with? I am more opposed to our War on Drugs than you are to our war in Iraq. And it is a war. We have soldiers in Columbia right now. It is mainly being fought dometically, and I think it is horrible morally and that it is counterproductive. Did you read where I said Vietnam should have been handled by assassinating the stubborn dictator and not by killing millions of Vietnamese? I also refuse to say the Pledge of Allegience and think it is really strange when Americans put their hands on their chests and sing our national anthem before sporting events. "The Star Spangled Banner" and "God Bless America" are pathetic sounding songs. They are just as horrible as a sanctuary full of white Protestants singing. I told you that if I were drafted to fight a war I don't agree with, I would burn my draft card. In other words, your assumption was very incorrect. It is amazing how I keep having to tell you the same things over and over, and it is amazing how you jump so quickly to unfounded conclusions.

I said that if you were challenged directly to go off with great passion against the United States, you would really get into it. We both know that's true. But the terrible governments I listed were just brief mentionings of yours. You started going off about the United States in the Extended Discussion forum when the damn thread was about Saddam Hussein. How much did you go off about Hussein? So much for your staying on topic excuse. People like you can't stay on topic when there is a discussion about an enemy of the United States. You go straight for the United States every time. That is because you are biased against us, and we both know why.

You call the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan "puppets". The only reason we have any control whatsoever in either country is that the insurgents are working so hard to stop the governments from standing on their own. We, on the other hand, are working so hard to allow the governments to stand on their own. We just recently set up the governments. It would be retarded to not stick around and get them going. Wouldn't it? Were we really supposed to say, "Okay, you've existed for a day. Bye."? That would be disastrous. If the insurgents would stop, we would completely give up control. Your conspiracy theories were interesting the first hundred times I heard America bashers spewing them with venom, but the trend is getting old. Hating Bush and our recent policies is very trendy, like the hoolahoop, but it has to be getting old. You and the other America bashers of the world need to find a new set of delusions to spew about. How about Uraguay? You could say that their leader is planning to take over Tibet because the aliens that live underground there have a big stash of diamonds worth stealing. That could be fun and trendy.

I asked you which communist countries you love. All you told me was to not get you started on how much they suck. I agree with you. Communist countries suck. You blame Cuba's horrible state on America's trade embargo? Do you have any idea how much importance you place on us when you say that? There are about, what, 200 countries in the world? And because ONE country won't trade with them, they are in a Hell hole? That's just ridiculous. Why is the lack of trade between Cuba and the U.S. not causing the U.S. to be poor and screwed up? We are capitalist, and they are communist. Capitalist countries are rich and successful, while communist countries are poor and fucked up. That is how it works. That is because with communism there is no incentive for anybody to work hard. It is an enterprise spirit vacuum. Nobody can get excited about building business empires if it is guaranteed to keep them in exactly the same place. That is why communist countries fail. Lack of incentive. So tell me... What is your favorite communist country?

You are all boned up about China getting more powerful? You want to see us outdone, and that gets you excited? That shows your bias and hatred for us, which you keep denying yet keep inadvertantly exposing. China is not going to dare get into a war with us in response to our liberation tendencies. We are going to keep liberating unfree nations, and China is not going to start a war that will end the world. Sorry to disappoint you. Their communism will never allow them to outdo our level of power, just like the Soviet Union never could. Communism sucks.

The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended World War II. Your conspiracy theories that you pull out of your ass will never get around that.

In Extended Discussion, there are threads about the atomic bomb in WWII and socialism and its forms.

Make sure your read what I wrote. I hope you don't claim that I "avoided" your "points entirely" again. That was a lie. Lying seems to be a common trend among America haters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal

You are leaping to conclusions once again. You ASSUME that I am some blind patriot who thinks my government never does anything bad. Your assumptive behavior is what lands you in such illogical territory. Did you not read the post in this thread where I was talking to YOU and I mentioned things my government has done that I disagree with? I am more opposed to our War on Drugs than you are to our war in Iraq. And it is a war. We have soldiers in Columbia right now. It is mainly being fought dometically, and I think it is horrible morally and that it is counterproductive. Did you read where I said Vietnam should have been handled by assassinating the stubborn dictator and not by killing millions of Vietnamese? I also refuse to say the Pledge of Allegience and think it is really strange when Americans put their hands on their chests and sing our national anthem before sporting events. "The Star Spangled Banner" and "God Bless America" are pathetic sounding songs. They are just as horrible as a sanctuary full of white Protestants singing. I told you that if I were drafted to fight a war I don't agree with, I would burn my draft card. In other words, your assumption was very incorrect. It is amazing how I keep having to tell you the same things over and over, and it is amazing how you jump so quickly to unfounded conclusions.

I said that if you were challenged directly to go off with great passion against the United States, you would really get into it. We both know that's true. But the terrible governments I listed were just brief mentionings of yours. You started going off about the United States in the Extended Discussion forum when the damn thread was about Saddam Hussein. How much did you go off about Hussein? So much for your staying on topic excuse. People like you can't stay on topic when there is a discussion about an enemy of the United States. You go straight for the United States every time. That is because you are biased against us, and we both know why.

You call the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan "puppets". The only reason we have any control whatsoever in either country is that the insurgents are working so hard to stop the governments from standing on their own. We, on the other hand, are working so hard to allow the governments to stand on their own. We just recently set up the governments. It would be retarded to not stick around and get them going. Wouldn't it? Were we really supposed to say, "Okay, you've existed for a day. Bye."? That would be disastrous. If the insurgents would stop, we would completely give up control. Your conspiracy theories were interesting the first hundred times I heard America bashers spewing them with venom, but the trend is getting old. Hating Bush and our recent policies is very trendy, like the hoolahoop, but it has to be getting old. You and the other America bashers of the world need to find a new set of delusions to spew about. How about Uraguay? You could say that their leader is planning to take over Tibet because the aliens that live underground there have a big stash of diamonds worth stealing. That could be fun and trendy.

I asked you which communist countries you love. All you told me was to not get you started on how much they suck. I agree with you. Communist countries suck. You blame Cuba's horrible state on America's trade embargo? Do you have any idea how much importance you place on us when you say that? There are about, what, 200 countries in the world? And because ONE country won't trade with them, they are in a Hell hole? That's just ridiculous. Why is the lack of trade between Cuba and the U.S. not causing the U.S. to be poor and screwed up? We are capitalist, and they are communist. Capitalist countries are rich and successful, while communist countries are poor and fucked up. That is how it works. That is because with communism there is no incentive for anybody to work hard. It is an enterprise spirit vacuum. Nobody can get excited about building business empires if it is guaranteed to keep them in exactly the same place. That is why communist countries fail. Lack of incentive. So tell me... What is your favorite communist country?

You are all boned up about China getting more powerful? You want to see us outdone, and that gets you excited? That shows your bias and hatred for us, which you keep denying yet keep inadvertantly exposing. China is not going to dare get into a war with us in response to our liberation tendencies. We are going to keep liberating unfree nations, and China is not going to start a war that will end the world. Sorry to disappoint you. Their communism will never allow them to outdo our level of power, just like the Soviet Union never could. Communism sucks.

The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended World War II. Your conspiracy theories that you pull out of your ass will never get around that.

In Extended Discussion, there are threads about the atomic bomb in WWII and socialism and its forms.

Make sure your read what I wrote. I hope you don't claim that I "avoided" your "points entirely" again. That was a lie. Lying seems to be a common trend among America haters.
[/b]

---

My point regarding your blind patroism was intentionally wrong. You already explained youre passionate disgust towards the war on dugs and that you would burn your draft card. However, it was intendd to hammer home a point. My accusations there are just as unfonded as yours that I hate the US. I find it amazing that I have to keep telling YOU the saem things over and over. I have told you why i havent "gone off" about any off these appalling countries. And also, in the Saddam thread thats all relative. Saddam Hussein was nhung by former allies that illegally invaded when they had no more use of him and then tried him for war crimes equal to there own. Also te same war crimes they attributed to Ayatollah Khomeni when it suited them. Proaganda.

You give up control yes. But you leave in charge a government that is decidedly pro-West. Just like in the Manchurian crisis the Japense elected leader was pro-Japan, and had policies slected by them.
Just like Iran and the Shah?
Just like when you helped depose of Patrice Lumumba in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and repalced him with Mobutu Sese Seko who was a ruthless dictator, a murderer and no better AT ALL than Saddam Hussein, he was supported by many US Presidents including Nixon, Raegan and George H.W. Bush.
Go on explain that away?
Are you going to use your cold war excuse again, churn that one out again?

You honeslty beleive, that I shown disgust at American foreign policy becuase its trendy, if so you are deluded. And also, you keep referring to the reason i am bias against the US, which appreantly me and you both know? And apprenlty its not your ramapging around the world "liberating" countires. ENlighten me? Whats the reason.

On the topic of communism, i see you didnt mention the labour theorym of value and how it directly proves that capitalism is a legalized robbery system? On the topic of Cuba and your influence over it. Of course I place utmost imortance. The ONLY super-power in the world. OF course you are that imprtant. If America expieriences an economic depression, it will have wild re-verbarations. You are the most important trade link for any country, altough Chinan is becoming increaisnlgy important. I support Cuba. You cant deny that a lot of good has been done there, since the revlution and th over-throw of the facist arshole Bastista.
Castro has made imporvements in every area economically, since the "Special Period", mainly thorugh the nationaliszation of the countries assests.
I am not saying it i sa utopian soicety, I have issues espeically with the way he acted witihn his first decade in power, persecuting plitical opponents and such.

Now on the topic of Chinas rsiisng power.
The last thing I want is a war. I bleeive you intneonally mis-understood my words. I bleeive the rise of China will give rise toa respectful eqilibrium between the two nations. It wont go into a war with you, but the Us will have to curb the imperailistic behaviours, and they will. To have one super-power in the world is global anarchy. And to have that super-power unanswerable to the United Nations is worse than anarchy. ANd by the way evertthing suggest a switch in power between China and the US, they have everything going for them.

ANd on the topic of the the atomic bombs, if you had any idea. You wouldnt call them conspiracy theories. It is merely a part of a revisonst perspectve that chalenges the orthodox view on the cause of the cold war. The reviosnist perspective is by far the most logical. Japan was already defeated. And yes you did respond to te majprirty of my points.
Declined to refer to the Labour Theory of Vlaue though, eh?
I suggest you read some revioninist work regarding the cold war.

I bleive I MUST repeat.
I dont hate your country.

Imran

http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/ert/acti...k/pg02-car.gif

Oh, fantastic. I guess this has taught me something: NEVER start a topic. EVER.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FreshBrains

Oh, fantastic. I guess this has taught me something: NEVER start a topic. EVER.
[/b]

---

Lol better luck next time :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imran_p

My point regarding your blind patroism was intentionally wrong. You already explained youre passionate disgust towards the war on dugs and that you would burn your draft card. However, it was intendd to hammer home a point. My accusations there are just as unfonded as yours that I hate the US. I find it amazing that I have to keep telling YOU the saem things over and over. I have told you why i havent "gone off" about any off these appalling countries. And also, in the Saddam thread thats all relative. Saddam Hussein was nhung by former allies that illegally invaded when they had no more use of him and then tried him for war crimes equal to there own. Also te same war crimes they attributed to Ayatollah Khomeni when it suited them. Proaganda.

You give up control yes. But you leave in charge a government that is decidedly pro-West. Just like in the Manchurian crisis the Japense elected leader was pro-Japan, and had policies slected by them.
Just like Iran and the Shah?
Just like when you helped depose of Patrice Lumumba in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and repalced him with Mobutu Sese Seko who was a ruthless dictator, a murderer and no better AT ALL than Saddam Hussein, he was supported by many US Presidents including Nixon, Raegan and George H.W. Bush.
Go on explain that away?
Are you going to use your cold war excuse again, churn that one out again?

You honeslty beleive, that I shown disgust at American foreign policy becuase its trendy, if so you are deluded. And also, you keep referring to the reason i am bias against the US, which appreantly me and you both know? And apprenlty its not your ramapging around the world "liberating" countires. ENlighten me? Whats the reason.

On the topic of communism, i see you didnt mention the labour theorym of value and how it directly proves that capitalism is a legalized robbery system? On the topic of Cuba and your influence over it. Of course I place utmost imortance. The ONLY super-power in the world. OF course you are that imprtant. If America expieriences an economic depression, it will have wild re-verbarations. You are the most important trade link for any country, altough Chinan is becoming increaisnlgy important. I support Cuba. You cant deny that a lot of good has been done there, since the revlution and th over-throw of the facist arshole Bastista.
Castro has made imporvements in every area economically, since the "Special Period", mainly thorugh the nationaliszation of the countries assests.
I am not saying it i sa utopian soicety, I have issues espeically with the way he acted witihn his first decade in power, persecuting plitical opponents and such.

Now on the topic of Chinas rsiisng power.
The last thing I want is a war. I bleeive you intneonally mis-understood my words. I bleeive the rise of China will give rise toa respectful eqilibrium between the two nations. It wont go into a war with you, but the Us will have to curb the imperailistic behaviours, and they will. To have one super-power in the world is global anarchy. And to have that super-power unanswerable to the United Nations is worse than anarchy. ANd by the way evertthing suggest a switch in power between China and the US, they have everything going for them.

ANd on the topic of the the atomic bombs, if you had any idea. You wouldnt call them conspiracy theories. It is merely a part of a revisonst perspectve that chalenges the orthodox view on the cause of the cold war. The reviosnist perspective is by far the most logical. Japan was already defeated. And yes you did respond to te majprirty of my points.
Declined to refer to the Labour Theory of Vlaue though, eh?
I suggest you read some revioninist work regarding the cold war.

I bleive I MUST repeat.
I dont hate your country.

Imran
[/b]

---

Your point about my supposed blind patriotism was intentionally wrong? That sounds like a convenient explanation for your falsehood. I have shown actual evidence of my skepticism toward and disagreement with my government. You can find posts that date back to before you even joined where I bitched about the War on Drugs, the ban on gay marriage, the proposed flag burning amendment, and other things. You have not shown evidence for your lack of hatred for my country. You have claimed it, but you keep exposing the opposite. The Saddam thread is one good piece of evidence for it. It was a perfect opportunity for you to write paragraph after paragraph about what a terrible dictator he was. But what did you do? You mentioned that he was a bad guy and wrote a bunch of stuff about how the United States sucks. That is bias against us. The government of Iraq tried him for war crimes because it was the moral thing to do. We allied with him before he was our enemy, before he took over Kuwait, before he violated our ceasefire for 12 years, before he became the monster he became, and before 9/11 and the Bush Doctrine. And once again, alliance is not the same as acceptance. Did we accept the ways of the Soviet Union when we allied with them against the Nazis? Parties don't have to be friends to come together to fight a common enemy. So your examples of "support" don't mean anything. And yes, the Cold War had us working with bad people. It didn't mean we liked them or agreed with all they did. If we hadn't won the Cold War, you would not have the freedom to be talking crap at will on the internet. You're welcome.

Iraq and Afghanistan were led by enemy governments that were suicide bomber supporting. The Taliban was harboring Bin Laden and had to go. 9/11 influenced the Bush Doctrine, which is an intelligent and legitimate doctrine. Under it, the Taliban and the Hussein regime had to go. The Hussein regime had also violated our ceasefire on several terrorism counts for 12 years. Overthrowing them was necessary and legitimate. It was not a matter of "rampaging all over the globe". That is the way you see it because you are so jealous of our power you can't stand it. It is also fun to be rebellious and join the crowd and bitch together about the most powerful leader and country in the world. Enjoy. We will give up control of Iraq and Afghanistan, and they will support the West because the West is mostly democratic. That does not mean we are imperialistic. It means that freedom is what is moral, what is effective, what is safe, and what made us the big deal you are obsessed with thinking we are.

Our effect on the world economy is not a result of our military power. It is a result of our economic system, which all of the wonderful communist countries of the world are welcome to adopt at any time. Capitalism works. Communism does not. It still don't think we are so damn important that not trading with Cuba can wreck them. In saying that, you are saying that if we didn't exist, much of the world would be screwed. Cuba really depends on us that much? What if we weren't even here? Or imagine if we were communist. Your labor theory is something I don't agree with at all, as illustrated by how communism sucks. I did talk about it. I just didn't mention the name. Did you not read what I wrote about lack of incentive and how that stifles countries? And you "support" Cuba? Is that supposed to be your answer to my question about your favorite communist country? If not, then you avoided it, and I have asked you more than once. So you like Cuba's economic system and not ours. So why are we not a Hell hole even though we are not trading with Cuba? Don't they have the superior economic system, according to you? The truth is that they have a robbery system called communism. The government takes what people have earned and distributes it according to how they decide. It is all about robbery. Capitalism is not, although we do need to lower taxes. Capitalism is rooted in freedom. People get what they earn, for the most part. That encourages enterprise and hard work. That is why we are, as you even asserted, the most important economic entity in the world. I invite the rest of the world to join us. Imagine what an awesome world we could have.

You intentionally misunderstood my words regarding China. I didn't say you want a war. I said you want, really bad apparently, for somebody to be more powerful than us. Be careful what you wish for. You don't want China hijacking your life with communism. If it were not for our existence on this planet, they already would have. And have you read about their human rights atrocities?

Japan was not already defeated. They were playing the surrender tantalization game repeatedly, and we had to end the war. We were not going to keep sacrificing soldiers until they decided to do the right thing. The way they were playing games, it may have never happened. They had a very strong philosophy against surrender. They thought like North Vietnam. We had to do something extreme, so we did, and the war ended.

So... What is your favorite communist country? Tell me how their economic system has done so much better than ours.

Edited the topic name for relevancy.

If I choose A, it has a chance of killing those two, right?

They'd be at the top of the list.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by arby

If I choose A, it has a chance of killing those two, right?[/b]

---

You're better of choosing (D). Max-security prisons over there don't have internet access, right?

Unicorns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark75

Unicorns.[/b]

---

What about them...?

Quote:

---

What about them...?
[/b]

---

they magically changed into islands

Kleenex islands!

D might be an option, you can ask to be put in the protected area ( where they put witnesses, past-informers etc. ) I'm not sure if anyone who wants can get there by asking, but I would make a research to find out before I make my decision. Most inmates don't want to be there because for them it's considered a place for cowards. I think this area of the prison is quite peaceful and you wouldn't get raped or stabbed there. Again I'll make a research to verify that before I'll make my decision.
So if I'm not going to get raped or stabbed, being in jail would not be so bad. I could meditate, master lucid dreaming, write some books, sounds like fun...

Ok, Ive gone hideously off topic yes?
apolgies, espically to you fresh beains
we deastroyed your topic
and it was an orginal one to



Universal

Basically, it seems out debate has reached one partiocualr point, Marxism vs Capitalism
to help us along im going to make a thread in the extrended discuassio narea for the disucssion of this.

Im gonna close this debate with just a couple of facts for you universal.
I dont ahte your country.
The reason i am opposed to its current forign policy reffers not to jelousy or to the fact that its trendy.
If i wanted I could live in the US, so its ntohing to do with jelousy.


I do hope you'll join in the discussion regarding Marxism
and maybe we can try and keep the tempers down, and indulge in some intelligent, respectufl disagreement
=)

sorry anway fresh brains for destroying your thread
comepltely


On topic- Ive changed my mind, id pick D
ten years in a high security prison would be fun
time to learn, read, master lucid dreaming, like soembody said
and write poetry =)
Imran

We got a bit off topic in terms of specifics, especially with the economic philosphies and the nature of anti-Americanism, but the morality of war has something to do with the initial post. It is the ultimate "Would you..." issue. I said that I would never ever kill any innocent person, much less a billion people, for my own personal gain. That takes a sociopath. But I do support killing some innocent people to save a much greater number of innocent people. I think it is immoral and a form of killing to turn down the chance.

Practically all threads go off topic, especially when the initial post is a stupid question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by arby

If I choose A, it has a chance of killing those two, right?
[/b]

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by arby

They'd be at the top of the list.
[/b]

---

It looks like we really went over some people's heads.

Is there a "Kill Arby and Freshbrains for charity" option? Perhaps I should list my own set of hypotheticals on a pad in my basement.

Well, you DID hijack the one thread I decided to make. :?

Guess I won't try that for a while.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FreshBrains

Well, you DID hijack the one thread I decided to make. :?

Guess I won't try that for a while.
[/b]

---

It happens every single time I start a thread. What I do in an attempt to prevent it sometimes is ask repeatedly that people stay on topic. It never works. So I came to the conclusion that it is okay, just like how conversations in the real world go all over the place. But when people ask nicely that I not stray from the original topic, I respect it. Talk about killing me, however, gives me a crazy look in my eyes, and I start torturing cats and vandalizing kindergartens. Well not really, but it doesn't exactly win me over to a request.

By the way, we are off topic.

I think it's okay and perfectly logical to stray off topic. It's a forum, not a library - you can't expect the natural course of conversation to stay firmly on one set of rails.

Besides which, I doubt this thread will had stayed so active if it hadn't been for the change in topic.

Blast... And I almost killed it at "Unicorns".

keep trying. You'll get it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keeper

keep trying. You'll get it
[/b]

---

Thanks for the encouragement, Keeps'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaniaz

I don't get what you're saying. How would you feel if you woke up to hear that a man had been willing to humour a terrorist who had that kind of power by giving him the detonator for, say, some nuclear bombs [which equates to the same thing as the button more or less] and saying, 'well then, let's see you do it?'.

Hitler would've been mad in that you totally made him look like a wuss: his holocaust would be a drop in the water. Gandhi would've shook his head and took the opportunity to expound the virtues of India. And Thomas Edison would've gone and flown a kite. At least, that's what they would've done if I hadn't pressed the button and killed them all (oops).

If not me, what's going to stop another guy? Seriously, a psychopath would do that in the blink of an eye. They're also quite good at pretending to have emotions (it's as easy as saying 'I'm feeling so sad right now'). And you're willing to even contemplate handing over the detonator like that? McJesus!
[/b]

---

Just so you know, they still have feelings, they just lack empathy and compassion ;)

I have a sandwich. :)

A unicorn sandwich?

Quote:

---

Just so you know, they still have feelings, they just lack empathy and compassion[/b]

---

Just so you know, that's like, totally irrelevant. Empathy about killing a million people and feelings about killing a million people. What a huge difference that surely must be!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaniaz

Just so you know, that's like, totally irrelevant. Empathy about killing a million people and feelings about killing a million people. What a huge difference that surely must be!
[/b]

---

There is a huge difference. A lot of them would feel very happy and excited about killing a million people. They just wouldn't feel any guilt over it.

Wolffe was clearing up a common misconception. A lot of people do think that psychopaths can't feel emotions at all. Another common misconception is that a psychopath is the same as a psychotic. A psychopath has no empathy/conscience, while a psychotic has very bizarre delusions and/or hallucinations. One person can be both, but it is most common for somebody to be one or the other and not both. The most common misconception regarding human psychology is that Schizophrenia and Multiple Personality Disorder are the same thing. Schizophrenia is a form of extreme psychosis. Many of them change personality characteristics on a regular basis, but not actual identities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark75

A unicorn sandwich?
[/b]

---

With mayo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaniaz

Just so you know, that's like, totally irrelevant. Empathy about killing a million people and feelings about killing a million people. What a huge difference that surely must be!
[/b]

---

Yes, it is...

OK, right, so feelings are different from empathy.

• Feelings. Feelings come from yourself.
• Empathy. Empathy is feeling someone else's feelings. (Clumsy sentence structure, no?)

Either way, the outcome is you have feelings. I ask my friends, Romans and countrymen, what's your point?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaniaz

OK, right, so feelings are different from empathy.

• Feelings. Feelings come from yourself.
• Empathy. Empathy is feeling someone else's feelings. (Clumsy sentence structure, no?)

Either way, the outcome is you have feelings. I ask my friends, Romans and countrymen, what's your point?
[/b]

---

I don't think it was supposed to be this big of a deal. Wolffe was just clearing up the common misconception that psychopaths can't feel emotions at all.