The 'imran-and-universal-mind-argue-irrelevantly' Thread!

[TweaK]

hitler firebombed the reichstag and bllamed it on insurgents bush felled the towers and blamed it on terrwrists they both invaded the countries of supposed blame its not a comparison its a carbon copy. and if you dont believe that it confirms the international stereotype of the infinite stupidity of the average american. [/b] Those are some pretty heavy accusements you've got there son. As far as I recall, nothing has ever been proven in the 9/11 case, so in this case those statements are invalid.

[Indecent Exposure]

888 has a habit of turning things into a discussiion regarding the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 =) Imran

[TweaK]

So I have seen.

[Kaniaz]

I think the only thing that was proven in the 9/11 case is that some people (somehow) believe their own government is capable of silencing the entire country in one grand conspiracy. That's obviously not true, but heck, those people scare me anyway.

[Indecent Exposure]

None of us really KNOW who was behind it, we can beleive whatever the government tells us we can pretend we know exaclty who did it, and it was all Bush (lol) we blame the zionists but tbh, none of us really know obviously 888 thinks he does, but hey, arrogance is human nature =) Imran

[Universal Mind]

Universal, I odnt know how many times I will ahve to say this I do NOT hate your country [/b] That sounds nice, but when you talk about how Bush is like Hitler, you ARE insulting my country because the majority of American voters voted to keep Bush in office. Think about it. There are plenty of atrocious governments to go off about, ones that have done absolutely zero good for the world. I'd be interested in seeing how you repeatedly insult them. 888 has a habit of turning things into a discussiion regarding the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 =) [/b] 888 knocked down the towers. But seriously, when 888 shows that he knows how to stay on point and speak coherently in a dialogue, he will have a tiny spec of added credibility in talking about unfounded conspiracy theories.

[Indecent Exposure]

You completely ignored the vast majority of my post but, in repsonse to the meagre bit you did say just listen to yourslef In nazi Germany, practically everyobdy votewd for hitler Do I think low of them germans of course not Propganda is a tool, a powerful one and you have been victimzed and fell prey to it those Americans who voted to keep in him in office, well, a great deal I beleive would ahve voted otherwise with a good opposition, and actually at the current time, (which is waht we are discussing) the Bush's popularity has hit a new low, In an interview he admitted his popularity was very low in the country at the moment they dont like him and that is due to the intellect of the American people and those who do like him have conviced themsleves, and are too stubborn to see otherwise There ARE plenty of other governments that do ntohing for the world, and that are insanely corrupt the next time one of them wages a full scale war that I comeptlely disagree with and if the war as ilegal, making the rulers of the country war criminals, I will comment o nthat matter If somebody starts talking to me about the merits and de-merits of the current British rule, i'll give my opinion same with North Korea or India or Cuba I think you get the picture because of the US status as sole superpower, and the current war/s they are obviously more often brought into conversatiopn and yes 888 rants and offers no reasoning, no logic i perosnally do think there was more to the attack than the average joe is told personally I think the Zionists had sometihng to do with it, but thats a separate issue Imran

[Universal Mind]

You completely ignored the vast majority of my post but, in repsonse to the meagre bit you did say just listen to yourslef In nazi Germany, practically everyobdy votewd for hitler Do I think low of them germans of course not Propganda is a tool, a powerful one and you have been victimzed and fell prey to it those Americans who voted to keep in him in office, well, a great deal I beleive would ahve voted otherwise with a good opposition, and actually at the current time, (which is waht we are discussing) the Bush's popularity has hit a new low, In an interview he admitted his popularity was very low in the country at the moment they dont like him and that is due to the intellect of the American people and those who do like him have conviced themsleves, and are too stubborn to see otherwise There ARE plenty of other governments that do ntohing for the world, and that are insanely corrupt the next time one of them wages a full scale war that I comeptlely disagree with and if the war as ilegal, making the rulers of the country war criminals, I will comment o nthat matter If somebody starts talking to me about the merits and de-merits of the current British rule, i'll give my opinion same with North Korea or India or Cuba I think you get the picture because of the US status as sole superpower, and the current war/s they are obviously more often brought into conversatiopn and yes 888 rants and offers no reasoning, no logic i perosnally do think there was more to the attack than the average joe is told personally I think the Zionists had sometihng to do with it, but thats a separate issue Imran [/b] You ignored a lot of what I said and then said too much for me to comment on in a thread where we are off topic. Didn't you say something about wanting to get back on topic? We knew damn well what Bush did when we elected him the second time. The Germans did not know what they were getting into when they elected Hitler. If they did, then I would be insulting them when I say that Hitler is one of the top five most evil people who has ever lived. You picked a few arbitrary accusations against the U.S. and said that when somebody else does those things you will complain. Is Iran's terrorist funding not enough for you? What about their leader's vow to completely wipe out Israel? Is North Korea's horrible domestic situation and horrifying foreign policy not enough? Is China's abyss level human rights state not enough? How about Sudan's genocide? What about Al Qaeda's attacks here, in Europe, and in Africa? What do you think of Al Qaeda's publicly expressed desire/plan to kill all 300 million Americans and everybody in Israel? Those are some matters you can comment on. Try to show even more passion when you talk about them. I challenge you. By the way, my friend, you can make your posts much shorter. You are perfectly welcome to make your lines go all the way to the right. It saves computer space.

[Indecent Exposure]

Firs tof all, I'll make my post however I see fit until told otherwise by a moderater or admin? I tend it to find its easier on the eyes and ecoruages people to actually read it. NUmber one. We are not duscissuing, al-Qaeda, if your asking me if im agianst Al-Qaeda I regard them as some of the msot digusting, people on this earth. Terrorists are the scum of thhis earth, and you will enver see me defend al-Qaeda I rarely find a debate or discussion, where the opposing side is respresenting a pro-al-Qaeda view, iassure you the next time I do, I will imemdiately being to debate furiously with them. Number two. I 100% disagree with the way that Iran is ruled, as an Islamic Reupbulic and women have low rights, obviouisly, the revolution was down to the disgusting way that the Last Shah of Iran ran his country, with his infamous savak. weve been over this, its a direct results of a puppets disgusting regime and he was replaced with the Islamic Repulbic of Iran Mossadeq, hwopever, was a strong leader, promoting a forward thinking, forwad moving Iran. obviously thats no good if hes nationalsitiong the countries oil. Number 3 North Korea, dont get me started. Another disgraceful stain on the sheet of Marxism. First we had Stalin giving us an awful name, now weve got bloody Kim Jong-Il, doing the same thing. i wish tey'd stop nope I detest him basically im showing you, that if these were topics of covnersation ,I would psot them views but it seems to me, that whenver we debate, you avoiid my points entirely and then challenge me to do something i would be all too willing to do if it was a point of covnersation First it was admitting all the great things the USA have ever done. Then its critizcising other countries governments. You seem to have misjudged me entirely as a man who supports terrorism I detest terrorism even more than I detest your beloved masked imperialism. My accusations were not arbitrary they were well founded claims and historical claims that you repeatedly avoid. But no, thats where your wrong, polls show if there was en election now, Bush would ahve the very smallet chance of retaining his position, after the msitrakes and lies and msitakes the people no longer trust him especially now, after his appalling descion to sedn MORE troops MORE PAH Imran

[Oneironaut Zero]

That sounds nice, but when you talk about how Bush is like Hitler, you ARE insulting my country... [/b] I have absolutely no intention of getting involved with this discussion, but I'm slightly offended by that, UM. Spilled milk, though. Carry on.

[sloth]

By the way, my friend, you can make your posts much shorter. You are perfectly welcome to make your lines go all the way to the right. It saves computer space. [/b] Alright. No offense, but LOL!! WTF!? Furthermore, LOL! WTH!? This argument is funny.

[Kaniaz]

I tend it to find its easier on the eyes and ecoruages people to actually read it.[/b] No...no, it just makes me cringe. But it's nowhere near as bad as it could be.

[Indecent Exposure]

No...no, it just makes me cringe. But it's nowhere near as bad as it could be. [/b] I'll rephrase it, I find it easier on my eyes when reading back and inconsiderate as I am, I fail to take Kaniaz' opinion into account =( Imran

[Lucidbulbs]

I wouldn't do any of them, D. sounds like the easiest (for me) but it'd be unlikely that I'd come out alive and/or not need extreme psycho-theraphy afterwards... And killing would have been my choice if it was just one of my family members, I'd hate to lose the rest (and that is one big family to kill)

[Indecent Exposure]

haha aud hoenslty kill one of ur amily embmers jeez thts a lot hate thtas a lot of missed birthdays Imran

[Universal Mind]

Firs tof all, I'll make my post however I see fit until told otherwise by a moderater or admin? I tend it to find its easier on the eyes and ecoruages people to actually read it. NUmber one. We are not duscissuing, al-Qaeda, if your asking me if im agianst Al-Qaeda I regard them as some of the msot digusting, people on this earth. Terrorists are the scum of thhis earth, and you will enver see me defend al-Qaeda I rarely find a debate or discussion, where the opposing side is respresenting a pro-al-Qaeda view, iassure you the next time I do, I will imemdiately being to debate furiously with them. Number two. I 100% disagree with the way that Iran is ruled, as an Islamic Reupbulic and women have low rights, obviouisly, the revolution was down to the disgusting way that the Last Shah of Iran ran his country, with his infamous savak. weve been over this, its a direct results of a puppets disgusting regime and he was replaced with the Islamic Repulbic of Iran Mossadeq, hwopever, was a strong leader, promoting a forward thinking, forwad moving Iran. obviously thats no good if hes nationalsitiong the countries oil. Number 3 North Korea, dont get me started. Another disgraceful stain on the sheet of Marxism. First we had Stalin giving us an awful name, now weve got bloody Kim Jong-Il, doing the same thing. i wish tey'd stop nope I detest him basically im showing you, that if these were topics of covnersation ,I would psot them views but it seems to me, that whenver we debate, you avoiid my points entirely and then challenge me to do something i would be all too willing to do if it was a point of covnersation First it was admitting all the great things the USA have ever done. Then its critizcising other countries governments. You seem to have misjudged me entirely as a man who supports terrorism I detest terrorism even more than I detest your beloved masked imperialism. My accusations were not arbitrary they were well founded claims and historical claims that you repeatedly avoid. But no, thats where your wrong, polls show if there was en election now, Bush would ahve the very smallet chance of retaining his position, after the msitrakes and lies and msitakes the people no longer trust him especially now, after his appalling descion to sedn MORE troops MORE PAH Imran [/b] How closely do you read my posts? It is almost as if I am arguing with a fictional character I am watching on television. I didn't say that making your posts outrageously longer than they would be if you would change the format is not up to you. I was making a suggestion. Are you paranoid or something? But it looks like you took my suggestion to a major extent any way. Cool. Also, what is this crap about how I "avoid" your "points entirely"? I talked even in this very thread about the basis for the overthrow of Mossadeq and additional details, the lack of comparison between Bush and Hitler, the nature of your bias, the connections between Americans and our government, and the other stuff you brought up. I directly countered your points. I also never said that you support terrorists. Are you okay? Saying that you are more obsessed with us than terrorists, which you are (Imagine ALL you would have said if somebody challenged you to go off about the United States with extreme passion. Get it?), I am not saying you support terrorists. I am saying that violence and take over are not what your major problems with the United States actually are. If they were, you would not be so biased. Our level of power and success seems to ruffle the shit out of feathers all over the world. Our whatever level of evil that is there is far exceeded by many governments and powerful organizations. But whom do Europeans in way too many cases center their lives around bitching about? That is bias, and I know why it exists. What else... What other ongoing, fine details about my country did you bring up? American imperialism. Yeah, Afghanistan is about to become the 51st state, and Iraq will be the 52nd. Just like we took over Western Europe after we saved it. If we had been communist, things would have been different. Communism is unfair imposition and thievery, by the way. It is one of the sickest forms of imperialism. Do you hate our government elected by us because we stopped communism from spreading all over the world? Well, I'm proud of it. What communist governments are still around and doing wonderful things every day? Cuba? North Korea? North Vietnam? China? Which one of those do you love the most? None of them? Communism sucks. And we will always be here to make sure it spreads to absolutely nowhere. Sorry to disappoint you. Alright. No offense, but LOL!! WTF!? Furthermore, LOL! WTH!? This argument is funny. [/b] Not an argument. A suggestion. Do you see how much space I usually have to take up just to quote that guy? Reading his posts is like watching two professional tennis players going at it on a four inch court. But notice how I didn't say that it is not up to him. He didn't. I have absolutely no intention of getting involved with this discussion, but I'm slightly offended by that, UM. [/b] Come again? Saying the American people are being insulted when somebody they elected twice is equated with Hitler is offensive? If you disagree, I would like to know why, and I am not at all sure why you would be offended by my point. Or is it that you are offended by the comparison between Hitler and somebody who was elected twice by the American people, the second time after which he did the things that are claimed to be Hitler like?

[Spectre]

D. Because everything else is just freakin' disgusting. >.>

[Indecent Exposure]

How closely do you read my posts? It is almost as if I am arguing with a fictional character I am watching on television. I didn't say that making your posts outrageously longer than they would be if you would change the format is not up to you. I was making a suggestion. Are you paranoid or something? But it looks like you took my suggestion to a major extent any way. Cool. Also, what is this crap about how I "avoid" your "points entirely"? I talked even in this very thread about the basis for the overthrow of Mossadeq and additional details, the lack of comparison between Bush and Hitler, the nature of your bias, the connections between Americans and our government, and the other stuff you brought up. I directly countered your points. I also never said that you support terrorists. Are you okay? Saying that you are more obsessed with us than terrorists, which you are (Imagine ALL you would have said if somebody challenged you to go off about the United States with extreme passion. Get it?), I am not saying you support terrorists. I am saying that violence and take over are not what your major problems with the United States actually are. If they were, you would not be so biased. Our level of power and success seems to ruffle the shit out of feathers all over the world. Our whatever level of evil that is there is far exceeded by many governments and powerful organizations. But whom do Europeans in way too many cases center their lives around bitching about? That is bias, and I know why it exists. What else... What other ongoing, fine details about my country did you bring up? American imperialism. Yeah, Afghanistan is about to become the 51st state, and Iraq will be the 52nd. Just like we took over Western Europe after we saved it. If we had been communist, things would have been different. Communism is unfair imposition and thievery, by the way. It is one of the sickest forms of imperialism. Do you hate our government elected by us because we stopped communism from spreading all over the world? Well, I'm proud of it. What communist governments are still around and doing wonderful things every day? Cuba? North Korea? North Vietnam? China? Which one of those do you love the most? None of them? Communism sucks. And we will always be here to make sure it spreads to absolutely nowhere. Sorry to disappoint you. Not an argument. A suggestion. Do you see how much space I usually have to take up just to quote that guy? Reading his posts is like watching two professional tennis players going at it on a four inch court. But notice how I didn't say that it is not up to him. He didn't. Come again? Saying the American people are being insulted when somebody they elected twice is equated with Hitler is offensive? If you disagree, I would like to know why, and I am not at all sure why you would be offended by my point. Or is it that you are offended by the comparison between Hitler and somebody who was elected twice by the American people, the second time after which he did the things that are claimed to be Hitler like? [/b] I once again re-iterate to you Universal Mind, that I need not protest against the abhorrent bahviour of Islamic extremists. Society has judged them i nthe same way I would. If a eprson came to me, and he argued pro-terrorism, which as happend once before, i assure you our debate was far mroe heated and far more passionate than this. Universal, your main problem is that you see it as YOUR country as you ahve stated so many times. You are a patriot, no matter the actions of your country youwill subconciounsly feel obligated to defend there actions. Your patriotic nature is blinding you. I cant beleive you actually denied that Iraq and Afghanistan are blatant imperailstic wars. Lets draw a comparison shall we. The Manchurian crisis, i suppose you know about the bombing of the railways, and then the invasion of Manchuria by Japan. Regardless of the fact after the invasion the Japanese leadres installed a puppet government under last the emperor of China, Puyi, it has still been seen by history as an act of imperalism. And it is the same with these wars, setting up a puppet government proves nothing. Whatsoever. ITs still imperalism. Iraq belong sto the US wether you'll admit it or not. Its oil reserves, its national secuirty, all in the hands of the USA. Now wether you bleieve me or not, it is these actions that cause me to have problems with American foreign policy. The fact that it prevented Communisms spreading is a cuase of distress and a cuase of joy for me. I detest the way they went about it, the Vietnam war for a starter. And as much as Americans claim the cold war was a duirect result of the Soviets expansionism into Eastern Europe, IT wasnt. The US post-war foreign policy was despicable, every step they made was a step to turn the world into a capitalist frontier safe for America's market and investment expansion. Starting with the atomic bominb og Hiroshima and Nagasaki, There was only one reason for that attack, a message to the USSR. We are in charge, and we have this power. It was direct threat, a bold statement relating to the political conditiong of the world after the war. Then we have the policy of containment expressed in the truman doctrine. American politicians, fearful of a loss of markets in Europe, exaggerated the threat of world domination from the Soviet Union. The war was not about protecting the people of eastern europe, it was about the US economy. And then we have vietnam, pah, nothing more than American asserting its dominance. Liberating, jeez if i had a quid for every time the US or Britain have used that pretence. Now if yo uactually want to discuss the pros and cons of a marxist society feel free to create a thread. When it coems to robberry system. Well youve just defined capitalism. A robbery system designed to rob off the working man every single day. i assume you are comfortable with the labour theory of value as advocated by Marx? Its all there. Capitalism is robbery. I do not claim to be a genius, and I do not support a full blown MArixst-Leninist society. However, capitalism is robbery. The asnwer lies in democratic Socialism Im not tlaking about the wish washy bollacks that is often called socialism All these socail democrats. And yes North korea is a dsigrace but dotng et me started on Cuba. the only reason it is not what it could be is because of the US embargo impoverishing its people. Another one of the US crimes. and CHina, oh gee, I am glad that they blew that space satellite up This is the rise ofa new superpower. No longer shall the United States of America feel free to rampage around the globe like a bully on a playground. since 1991 the United States has been on the only big kid on this playground. Now weve got China =D im so bloody happy, its about time. 15 years of pure American dominace, about to end. They can disregard the Uniet Nations yes But soon they will not be able to disregard the militar power of China. Now if you want to discuss MArixt-Leninism as theory, you go ahead and make a thread. Im sure it will make for intersting discussion and pelase if you do, dont refer to the failings of the USSR under that facist bastard Stalin. That was Stalinism, NOT Marxism Imran

[Oneironaut Zero]

Come again? Saying the American people are being insulted when somebody they elected twice is equated with Hitler is offensive? If you disagree, I would like to know why, and I am not at all sure why you would be offended by my point. Or is it that you are offended by the comparison between Hitler and somebody who was elected twice by the American people, the second time after which he did the things that are claimed to be Hitler like? [/b] Simple: Because, regardless of whether or not the comparison is fair, you are imply that the percentage of people that didn't vote for him don't fit into the catagory of "American People."

[Universal Mind]

Simple: Because, regardless of whether or not the comparison is fair, you are imply that the percentage of people that didn't vote for him don't fit into the catagory of "American People." [/b] If you will look back, I used the word "majority". In the post you are referring to, I just said "American people" because that term is used figuratively to mean a majority in terms of an election. I was not saying that Bush got 100% of the vote.

[Oneironaut Zero]

I understand that. My point is that when you say "you're insulting my country," what you mean to say is "you're insulting the American Majority that, at the time, elected and re-elected Bush." Saying that that is an insult to "our country" is a bit misleading because, being a part of this country, there are still a lot of Americans that happen to agree with the similarities. I know it's simply a matter of technicality, but I just don't agree with your choice of words. That's all. I know what you mean though.

[Universal Mind]

I understand that. My point is that when you say "you're insulting my country," what you mean to say is "you're insulting the American Majority that, at the time, elected and re-elected Bush." Saying that that is an insult to "our country" is a bit misleading because, being a part of this country, there are still a lot of Americans that happen to agree with the similarities. I know it's simply a matter of technicality, but I just don't agree with your choice of words. That's all. I know what you mean though. [/b] I see what you're saying, but I stand by my point that Imran is insulting the United States period when he says that it is a country where the majority of voters voted to keep a Hitler in office after he did his supposed Hitler stuff. That is why when people constantly go off and throw around the words "America" and "United States" and say the worst things imaginable regarding those terms, it is not enough for them to then say, "Oh, uh, but I, I wasn't talking about the people." We run the government, so the people are being talked about when those words are used. But it is true that nobody in office was put there by every single person.

[Universal Mind]

I once again re-iterate to you Universal Mind, that I need not protest against the abhorrent bahviour of Islamic extremists. Society has judged them i nthe same way I would. If a eprson came to me, and he argued pro-terrorism, which as happend once before, i assure you our debate was far mroe heated and far more passionate than this. Universal, your main problem is that you see it as YOUR country as you ahve stated so many times. You are a patriot, no matter the actions of your country youwill subconciounsly feel obligated to defend there actions. Your patriotic nature is blinding you. I cant beleive you actually denied that Iraq and Afghanistan are blatant imperailstic wars. Lets draw a comparison shall we. The Manchurian crisis, i suppose you know about the bombing of the railways, and then the invasion of Manchuria by Japan. Regardless of the fact after the invasion the Japanese leadres installed a puppet government under last the emperor of China, Puyi, it has still been seen by history as an act of imperalism. And it is the same with these wars, setting up a puppet government proves nothing. Whatsoever. ITs still imperalism. Iraq belong sto the US wether you'll admit it or not. Its oil reserves, its national secuirty, all in the hands of the USA. Now wether you bleieve me or not, it is these actions that cause me to have problems with American foreign policy. The fact that it prevented Communisms spreading is a cuase of distress and a cuase of joy for me. I detest the way they went about it, the Vietnam war for a starter. And as much as Americans claim the cold war was a duirect result of the Soviets expansionism into Eastern Europe, IT wasnt. The US post-war foreign policy was despicable, every step they made was a step to turn the world into a capitalist frontier safe for America's market and investment expansion. Starting with the atomic bominb og Hiroshima and Nagasaki, There was only one reason for that attack, a message to the USSR. We are in charge, and we have this power. It was direct threat, a bold statement relating to the political conditiong of the world after the war. Then we have the policy of containment expressed in the truman doctrine. American politicians, fearful of a loss of markets in Europe, exaggerated the threat of world domination from the Soviet Union. The war was not about protecting the people of eastern europe, it was about the US economy. And then we have vietnam, pah, nothing more than American asserting its dominance. Liberating, jeez if i had a quid for every time the US or Britain have used that pretence. Now if yo uactually want to discuss the pros and cons of a marxist society feel free to create a thread. When it coems to robberry system. Well youve just defined capitalism. A robbery system designed to rob off the working man every single day. i assume you are comfortable with the labour theory of value as advocated by Marx? Its all there. Capitalism is robbery. I do not claim to be a genius, and I do not support a full blown MArixst-Leninist society. However, capitalism is robbery. The asnwer lies in democratic Socialism Im not tlaking about the wish washy bollacks that is often called socialism All these socail democrats. And yes North korea is a dsigrace but dotng et me started on Cuba. the only reason it is not what it could be is because of the US embargo impoverishing its people. Another one of the US crimes. and CHina, oh gee, I am glad that they blew that space satellite up This is the rise ofa new superpower. No longer shall the United States of America feel free to rampage around the globe like a bully on a playground. since 1991 the United States has been on the only big kid on this playground. Now weve got China =D im so bloody happy, its about time. 15 years of pure American dominace, about to end. They can disregard the Uniet Nations yes But soon they will not be able to disregard the militar power of China. Now if you want to discuss MArixt-Leninism as theory, you go ahead and make a thread. Im sure it will make for intersting discussion and pelase if you do, dont refer to the failings of the USSR under that facist bastard Stalin. That was Stalinism, NOT Marxism Imran [/b] You are leaping to conclusions once again. You ASSUME that I am some blind patriot who thinks my government never does anything bad. Your assumptive behavior is what lands you in such illogical territory. Did you not read the post in this thread where I was talking to YOU and I mentioned things my government has done that I disagree with? I am more opposed to our War on Drugs than you are to our war in Iraq. And it is a war. We have soldiers in Columbia right now. It is mainly being fought dometically, and I think it is horrible morally and that it is counterproductive. Did you read where I said Vietnam should have been handled by assassinating the stubborn dictator and not by killing millions of Vietnamese? I also refuse to say the Pledge of Allegience and think it is really strange when Americans put their hands on their chests and sing our national anthem before sporting events. "The Star Spangled Banner" and "God Bless America" are pathetic sounding songs. They are just as horrible as a sanctuary full of white Protestants singing. I told you that if I were drafted to fight a war I don't agree with, I would burn my draft card. In other words, your assumption was very incorrect. It is amazing how I keep having to tell you the same things over and over, and it is amazing how you jump so quickly to unfounded conclusions. I said that if you were challenged directly to go off with great passion against the United States, you would really get into it. We both know that's true. But the terrible governments I listed were just brief mentionings of yours. You started going off about the United States in the Extended Discussion forum when the damn thread was about Saddam Hussein. How much did you go off about Hussein? So much for your staying on topic excuse. People like you can't stay on topic when there is a discussion about an enemy of the United States. You go straight for the United States every time. That is because you are biased against us, and we both know why. You call the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan "puppets". The only reason we have any control whatsoever in either country is that the insurgents are working so hard to stop the governments from standing on their own. We, on the other hand, are working so hard to allow the governments to stand on their own. We just recently set up the governments. It would be retarded to not stick around and get them going. Wouldn't it? Were we really supposed to say, "Okay, you've existed for a day. Bye."? That would be disastrous. If the insurgents would stop, we would completely give up control. Your conspiracy theories were interesting the first hundred times I heard America bashers spewing them with venom, but the trend is getting old. Hating Bush and our recent policies is very trendy, like the hoolahoop, but it has to be getting old. You and the other America bashers of the world need to find a new set of delusions to spew about. How about Uraguay? You could say that their leader is planning to take over Tibet because the aliens that live underground there have a big stash of diamonds worth stealing. That could be fun and trendy. I asked you which communist countries you love. All you told me was to not get you started on how much they suck. I agree with you. Communist countries suck. You blame Cuba's horrible state on America's trade embargo? Do you have any idea how much importance you place on us when you say that? There are about, what, 200 countries in the world? And because ONE country won't trade with them, they are in a Hell hole? That's just ridiculous. Why is the lack of trade between Cuba and the U.S. not causing the U.S. to be poor and screwed up? We are capitalist, and they are communist. Capitalist countries are rich and successful, while communist countries are poor and fucked up. That is how it works. That is because with communism there is no incentive for anybody to work hard. It is an enterprise spirit vacuum. Nobody can get excited about building business empires if it is guaranteed to keep them in exactly the same place. That is why communist countries fail. Lack of incentive. So tell me... What is your favorite communist country? You are all boned up about China getting more powerful? You want to see us outdone, and that gets you excited? That shows your bias and hatred for us, which you keep denying yet keep inadvertantly exposing. China is not going to dare get into a war with us in response to our liberation tendencies. We are going to keep liberating unfree nations, and China is not going to start a war that will end the world. Sorry to disappoint you. Their communism will never allow them to outdo our level of power, just like the Soviet Union never could. Communism sucks. The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended World War II. Your conspiracy theories that you pull out of your ass will never get around that. In Extended Discussion, there are threads about the atomic bomb in WWII and socialism and its forms. Make sure your read what I wrote. I hope you don't claim that I "avoided" your "points entirely" again. That was a lie. Lying seems to be a common trend among America haters.

[Indecent Exposure]

You are leaping to conclusions once again. You ASSUME that I am some blind patriot who thinks my government never does anything bad. Your assumptive behavior is what lands you in such illogical territory. Did you not read the post in this thread where I was talking to YOU and I mentioned things my government has done that I disagree with? I am more opposed to our War on Drugs than you are to our war in Iraq. And it is a war. We have soldiers in Columbia right now. It is mainly being fought dometically, and I think it is horrible morally and that it is counterproductive. Did you read where I said Vietnam should have been handled by assassinating the stubborn dictator and not by killing millions of Vietnamese? I also refuse to say the Pledge of Allegience and think it is really strange when Americans put their hands on their chests and sing our national anthem before sporting events. "The Star Spangled Banner" and "God Bless America" are pathetic sounding songs. They are just as horrible as a sanctuary full of white Protestants singing. I told you that if I were drafted to fight a war I don't agree with, I would burn my draft card. In other words, your assumption was very incorrect. It is amazing how I keep having to tell you the same things over and over, and it is amazing how you jump so quickly to unfounded conclusions. I said that if you were challenged directly to go off with great passion against the United States, you would really get into it. We both know that's true. But the terrible governments I listed were just brief mentionings of yours. You started going off about the United States in the Extended Discussion forum when the damn thread was about Saddam Hussein. How much did you go off about Hussein? So much for your staying on topic excuse. People like you can't stay on topic when there is a discussion about an enemy of the United States. You go straight for the United States every time. That is because you are biased against us, and we both know why. You call the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan "puppets". The only reason we have any control whatsoever in either country is that the insurgents are working so hard to stop the governments from standing on their own. We, on the other hand, are working so hard to allow the governments to stand on their own. We just recently set up the governments. It would be retarded to not stick around and get them going. Wouldn't it? Were we really supposed to say, "Okay, you've existed for a day. Bye."? That would be disastrous. If the insurgents would stop, we would completely give up control. Your conspiracy theories were interesting the first hundred times I heard America bashers spewing them with venom, but the trend is getting old. Hating Bush and our recent policies is very trendy, like the hoolahoop, but it has to be getting old. You and the other America bashers of the world need to find a new set of delusions to spew about. How about Uraguay? You could say that their leader is planning to take over Tibet because the aliens that live underground there have a big stash of diamonds worth stealing. That could be fun and trendy. I asked you which communist countries you love. All you told me was to not get you started on how much they suck. I agree with you. Communist countries suck. You blame Cuba's horrible state on America's trade embargo? Do you have any idea how much importance you place on us when you say that? There are about, what, 200 countries in the world? And because ONE country won't trade with them, they are in a Hell hole? That's just ridiculous. Why is the lack of trade between Cuba and the U.S. not causing the U.S. to be poor and screwed up? We are capitalist, and they are communist. Capitalist countries are rich and successful, while communist countries are poor and fucked up. That is how it works. That is because with communism there is no incentive for anybody to work hard. It is an enterprise spirit vacuum. Nobody can get excited about building business empires if it is guaranteed to keep them in exactly the same place. That is why communist countries fail. Lack of incentive. So tell me... What is your favorite communist country? You are all boned up about China getting more powerful? You want to see us outdone, and that gets you excited? That shows your bias and hatred for us, which you keep denying yet keep inadvertantly exposing. China is not going to dare get into a war with us in response to our liberation tendencies. We are going to keep liberating unfree nations, and China is not going to start a war that will end the world. Sorry to disappoint you. Their communism will never allow them to outdo our level of power, just like the Soviet Union never could. Communism sucks. The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended World War II. Your conspiracy theories that you pull out of your ass will never get around that. In Extended Discussion, there are threads about the atomic bomb in WWII and socialism and its forms. Make sure your read what I wrote. I hope you don't claim that I "avoided" your "points entirely" again. That was a lie. Lying seems to be a common trend among America haters. [/b] My point regarding your blind patroism was intentionally wrong. You already explained youre passionate disgust towards the war on dugs and that you would burn your draft card. However, it was intendd to hammer home a point. My accusations there are just as unfonded as yours that I hate the US. I find it amazing that I have to keep telling YOU the saem things over and over. I have told you why i havent "gone off" about any off these appalling countries. And also, in the Saddam thread thats all relative. Saddam Hussein was nhung by former allies that illegally invaded when they had no more use of him and then tried him for war crimes equal to there own. Also te same war crimes they attributed to Ayatollah Khomeni when it suited them. Proaganda. You give up control yes. But you leave in charge a government that is decidedly pro-West. Just like in the Manchurian crisis the Japense elected leader was pro-Japan, and had policies slected by them. Just like Iran and the Shah? Just like when you helped depose of Patrice Lumumba in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and repalced him with Mobutu Sese Seko who was a ruthless dictator, a murderer and no better AT ALL than Saddam Hussein, he was supported by many US Presidents including Nixon, Raegan and George H.W. Bush. Go on explain that away? Are you going to use your cold war excuse again, churn that one out again? You honeslty beleive, that I shown disgust at American foreign policy becuase its trendy, if so you are deluded. And also, you keep referring to the reason i am bias against the US, which appreantly me and you both know? And apprenlty its not your ramapging around the world "liberating" countires. ENlighten me? Whats the reason. On the topic of communism, i see you didnt mention the labour theorym of value and how it directly proves that capitalism is a legalized robbery system? On the topic of Cuba and your influence over it. Of course I place utmost imortance. The ONLY super-power in the world. OF course you are that imprtant. If America expieriences an economic depression, it will have wild re-verbarations. You are the most important trade link for any country, altough Chinan is becoming increaisnlgy important. I support Cuba. You cant deny that a lot of good has been done there, since the revlution and th over-throw of the facist arshole Bastista. Castro has made imporvements in every area economically, since the "Special Period", mainly thorugh the nationaliszation of the countries assests. I am not saying it i sa utopian soicety, I have issues espeically with the way he acted witihn his first decade in power, persecuting plitical opponents and such. Now on the topic of Chinas rsiisng power. The last thing I want is a war. I bleeive you intneonally mis-understood my words. I bleeive the rise of China will give rise toa respectful eqilibrium between the two nations. It wont go into a war with you, but the Us will have to curb the imperailistic behaviours, and they will. To have one super-power in the world is global anarchy. And to have that super-power unanswerable to the United Nations is worse than anarchy. ANd by the way evertthing suggest a switch in power between China and the US, they have everything going for them. ANd on the topic of the the atomic bombs, if you had any idea. You wouldnt call them conspiracy theories. It is merely a part of a revisonst perspectve that chalenges the orthodox view on the cause of the cold war. The reviosnist perspective is by far the most logical. Japan was already defeated. And yes you did respond to te majprirty of my points. Declined to refer to the Labour Theory of Vlaue though, eh? I suggest you read some revioninist work regarding the cold war. I bleive I MUST repeat. I dont hate your country. Imran

[Kaniaz]